Klatt on Super Bowl Late Holding Call: Bad Call

Submitted by smotheringD on February 14th, 2023 at 12:16 PM

He gives several good examples of bad officiating having too much of an impact determining the outcome of big games, including the overturned UM touchdown in the CFB Semi's.

The reason why the defensive holding call on the Eagles was bad was that it was the first defensive holding call or DPI called all game.  The strike zone had been set.  That wasn't the first tug on a receiver's jersey all game.  Be consistent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUiJcudaruE&list=TLPQMTQwMjIwMjNwKfXP6liDwg&index=2

NittanyFan

February 14th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^

Joel has become a bigger name over the last few years, but he's also getting a massive ego that is bordering on obnoxious.  He really is beginning to think his opinion matters is the only worthy opinion.

-------

I recall back in September when Kansas got off to a 5-0 start, he tweets "if any AP Poll voter leaves Kansas off their ballot this week, they should be stripped of their vote!"

Well, let's see.  Kansas had defeated Tennessee Tech, Houston, WVU, Duke and Iowa State.  In the long run, only two of those teams finished above .500.  In the long run, Kansas themselves didn't finish above .500.

Perhaps ---- just perhaps Joel ---- a voter leaving Kansas off their ballet was waiting to see just a bit more from the Jayhawks, a program that, and this does seem importnat, hadn't been particularly good for the 10+ seasons before 2022.  But no, according to Joel, they should be silenced, because their opinion isn't equal to his opinion!

BlueintheLou

February 14th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^

He is a media personality. He is in the content creation business. To anyone in that business, if they want to make money, they HAVE to think their opinion matters more than most. That's how they build their stature and continue to get bigger. Additionally, being controversial only helps that from a interest perspective. Look at clowns like Skip Bayless. 

And in his defense on Kansas, they did lose their star QB not long after, which precipitated the tail spin. If Daniels doesn't get hurt, do they beat TCU? If they beat TCU, do we play OSU in the semi? Do we smash them again? An interesting flap of the butterfly's wings...

NittanyFan

February 14th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^

Skip Bayless is nobody worth emulating!

I just thought about this.  When you look at the top CFB analyst personalities, they (Kirk, Gary, Joel (IMO)) are pretty adamant about loudly broadcasting their opinions, and thinking their opinions matter more than others.

When you look at the top NFL analyst personalities, outside of Tony Romo, they (Cris Collinsworth, Olsen, Aikman, Charles Davis, Daryl Johnston) really aren't that way.

I suppose that speaks to the differences between the games.  Rankings and promotion really matter in terms of setting the narrative in college football.  Teams can literally be talked into or out of the playoffs.  In the NFL, setting the narrative doesn't matter at all  --- even if you're a franchise like Jacksonville, as long as you win, you WILL be in the playoffs and you WILL become champions.

Bluetotheday

February 14th, 2023 at 2:24 PM ^

I don’t think it’s his ego. He is being paid to provide his opinion and clearly outlets are seeking his opinion due to his reasoning and perceived credibility…

I value his in game assessment. Especially, late in the game when a big play happens and he explains the set up leading to the outcome 

TESOE

February 15th, 2023 at 1:11 PM ^

On the game clock Klatt is good if not great. Between the Saturdays it is all about his opinions. This is not just a Klatt problem for sure, but he is a poster child for Kardashian click bait outside game day. No broadcaster should be doing ads spots on his own game or at all IMHO.

People think too much of their own opinions, and I am no exception. Klatt however is opportunistically monetizing it, and shaping opinion too much, again IMHO, when he should be prepping for gameday, and allowing the spotlight to dwell on the players.

 

NittanyFan

February 14th, 2023 at 6:35 PM ^

And, according to Joel --- anyone who didn't agree should have had their AP vote taken away.

THAT is my issue with him, not his advocating for Kansas.  He had no interest in a discussion about whether Kansas should or should not have been ranked (there were legitimate points either way) --- he just wanted to call out and minimize (literally take a vote away from) anyone who didn't share his opinion.

Honestly, if one is objective (I know Joel is kind of a favorite around here) --- it's not unfair to call out his behavior as that of a bully.

Amazinblu

February 14th, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^

Wendy, Exactly.  Call it the same way - both sides - the entire game.

If you don't call a "tug" on the first play, you don't call it late in the fourth quarter.

Had the officials called similar plays in the first 57 or 58 minutes, I don't think anyone would have an issue with this call.  The key thing is - they didn't.

duffman is thr…

February 14th, 2023 at 9:39 PM ^

I’m extremely confident if you examined every passing play and watched each DB/WR battle you would find a lot of exactly this. Very minor contact at some point in the route. The flag coming late is the worst part. If this ref saw him commit the penalty the flag should have already been thrown anyways, and many would have just said well shit that’s game pretty much. The delay seems to show a decision to throw the flag based on the outcome of the play. If Mahomes completed a pass for a first down would that flag have been thrown? 

CompleteLunacy

February 14th, 2023 at 6:26 PM ^

Especially when it was as soft as it was. I mean, yes, it was holding, but it wasn't really egregious. I won't go as far as say that it definitely did not affect the play...but at the same time, if every tug like that was called there would have been another half a dozen penalties earlier. Why wait until the biggest moment in the game to finally set and enforce the standard? 

I don't want players being mugged and interfered with for the sake of "letting them play"...but this play was not that. In fact I don't quite understand the NFL standards of holding...half of the holdings I see called are barely holding. I don't like the standard much in college either (way too much holding is ignored), but I'd much rather err on the side of "let it go" than not, especially when we're talking about a small tug that was a fraction of a second near the beginning of a route. 

 

MI Expat NY

February 14th, 2023 at 3:07 PM ^

Not only was it not not-holding, it was pretty egregiously holding.  The views Fox showed were terrible, but even on those you could see the jersey get pulled away from the body by a closed fist right as he makes his break.  The official responsible for the action would have had the perfect view to see the tug.  If you could magically put that exact play in 100 different game/time scenarios, it gets called 99 times.  This whole debate is stupid...

Lou MacAdoo

February 14th, 2023 at 3:45 PM ^

Agree. It was going to be a TD. The only way to prevent the TD was to hold. He had to do it. He got called for it as it prevented a TD. I think the game situation actually demanded that the call be made. He had no safety help and the WR was going to have a walk in TD. Stop with the sour grapes. It's a good call.

ESNY

February 14th, 2023 at 5:28 PM ^

Actually the only way to lose the game was to let the Chiefs get a first down.

Whether you think it was a penalty or not, grabbing the WR was probably the stupidest thing Bradberry could've done. Obviously holding them to a FG is better than a TD but either gives you a chance to win or tie. Committing a foul is a cardinal no-no and any player should've known better than to dare the refs to make it. If you get beat, give up the TD and live to tie the game.

CompleteLunacy

February 14th, 2023 at 6:34 PM ^

It was holding, sure, but nowhere near egregious. Come on. Nowhere close. 

For it to be really "egregious" you need joe schmo who knows nothing about the sport seeing it and saying "wow that dude was held". And it would be obvious to see live, not something that requires replay to see where the penalty was. 

Brodie

February 14th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^

I hate this idea that refs shouldn't call penalties in situations like this, no players shouldn't grab another guy's jersey in the red zone with a minute left in the Super Bowl

Buy Bushwood

February 14th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^

The point isn't that.  The point is, if it's not going to be part of the game, then call it every play, in order to get it out of the game.  That kind of minor grabbing happens on every play.  If you're letting it go otherwise (as they had all game), don't call it with 1:48 left on 3rd and 8.  

DennisFranklinDaMan

February 14th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^

These demands for "consistency" are ... honestly, kind of infuriating. For one thing, this one referee wasn't the only one out there. Maybe he wasn't the one who who didn't call the earlier play. Maybe he was consistent. Should he have been watching players that weren't his responsibility on other plays, trying to take his colleagues' positioning into account, before deciding what he should call later on, on players that were his responsibility? How many plays does he have to watch before instituting those same rules for the rest of the game? One? 50?

But that's even kind of theoretical. More significantly, these players are running at full speed, without referees always having the best perspective, and without instant reply. Did you know, while watching the game live, whether there was or wasn't holding? I sure didn't. 

And when they don't throw a flag -- like in that Saints playoff game a few years ago -- they get absolutely roasted for not making the "obvious" call.

If you (or Joel Klatt) want to say that shouldn't have been called, fair enough. Indeed, I personally get aggravated by referees that "guess" about penalties that in the end didn't happen more than I do by referees who miss calls that actually did (like, again, that Saints penalty). 

That's a legitimate point. But "consistency" ... gimme a break. You think that referee would agree that he applied different standards to different parts of the game? Because I bet he would absolutely deny it.

bo_lives

February 14th, 2023 at 1:25 PM ^

You lost me in the first sentence. Calls for call consistency are infuriating? You must love Targeting Roulette.

As for whether the ref would deny he was inconsistent, we’ll never know since refs don’t talk to the media for some reason (even though 18 year old college kids are repeatedly forced to). And I get what you’re saying. But the refs as a collective unit are responsible for bringing order to the game. They need to be on the same page. The defender may have admitted it was a hold, but he probably would have been fined if he questioned it. He did also say he thought they would let it slide—probably because they were letting it slide all game up to that point. The ref may have very well seen other plays he was very close to calling holding, but didn’t for whatever random reason. The reason people are upset about this one is that it ended the game. Yet it was a very marginal hold that very likely didn’t impact the outcome of the play. If he was absolutely 100% sure it was a hold by his standards, then fine. But if it was a play where he was wavering for a moment and then threw the flag, that’s disappointing. But like I said we’ll never truly know the answer to that because refs don’t talk to the media.

MI Expat NY

February 14th, 2023 at 3:00 PM ^

Calls for consistency are infuriating when there's no acknowledgement a major reason why there is apparent inconsistency.  In the NFL, the major reason is that you have 7 officials watching 22 players across a huge area of play.  Generally, only one or two people will have a view of any single action.  If their view doesn't give a clear view of all necessary information, they either have to guess or let things go.  This is especially true of defensive holding where one official is responsible for one eligible receiver.  If he sees the jersey grab, he calls it.  If the jersey grab is blocked by one of the two players, it probably isn't called, and it looks inconsistent.  This penalty would have been obvious to the responsible official and would have been called all game.

bo_lives

February 14th, 2023 at 5:04 PM ^

You’re contradicting yourself. On the one hand you admit that sometimes the ref might have an obscured view and have to guess. On the other hand you say that on this particular play it was obvious, and he would have called it that way all game. How do you know his view wasn’t partly obscured on that play too? I find it incredibly hard to believe that in a game with 67 passing downs, no ref saw a minor jersey tug until the very last one. These days the players are literally coached to do that. I will grant you it’s not *impossible* that this play was the ONLY time a ref saw a jersey tug, but like I said its statistically unlikely. 

MI Expat NY

February 14th, 2023 at 8:14 PM ^

It's simple geometry.  The back official threw the flag and had responsibility for that receiver.  When JuJu cut parallel to the LOS, the DB's back hand doing the holding would have been plainly visible.  If the official on the LOS was the responsible official, he may not have been able to see it, because he would had Juju's body between him and the hold.  That's why it's sometimes inconsistent.

1VaBlue1

February 14th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^

I'll agree - if it's a penalty, callit regardless of game situation.

My problem with that call, though, is that the 'hold' was nothing more than the usual hand checking that corners do all game long, all over the field.  When that catch on the sideline was overturned (the one where the ball was trapped between the hand and helmet), the corner's arm came across the WRs entire body and slapped his right arm.  No call, but sure can overturn a great catch!

And then you turn that simple hand check into a hold?  Bad call...