Has Michigan's "traditional" expectations changed for good?

Submitted by Lakeyale13 on

I am certainly not an old timer (41 years old here), but am surprised at how there seems to be a "shift" in expectations among fellow Michigan fans.  The content of many posts I am seeing is labeling Michigan's season a "success" if we make it to a decent bowl game and still lose to OSU.  This blows my mind and I think Bo would roll over in his grave.  Personally, I don't see how any season could be a "success" when you lose to Michigan St. and (the most likely outcome is a Loss to OSU) a loss to our biggest rival.   

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Lakeyale13

November 2nd, 2017 at 9:35 AM ^

Waking up this morning I realize my expectations were misplaced. I need to realize the "Carr Days" are over and 15 years of mediocrity (at least for Michigan) will continue for perhaps a couple more years. My expectations have to change. I think it would be much easier if Ohio State wasn't such a juggernaut during these last 15 years. It would be easier if we had more than one win in 14 years. I guess I need to learn from the Cubs and Red Sox. Enjoy your team. Root for them. Suffer a bit, and wait your turn.

Joined: 11/16/2014

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Lakeyale13

November 1st, 2017 at 7:34 PM ^

What I truly don't understand is why some people choose to be unable to acknowledge the facts of our program.  We haven't beaten our rival with a "real coach" for 13 years.  That isn't of concern?  Doesn't mean that our team is crap.  Doesn't mean that the sky is falling.  But, I do think it is a concern when we start to accept that losing to OSU is just a part of what happens now.  

Joined: 11/16/2014

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Jasper

November 1st, 2017 at 8:20 PM ^

At least as far as OSU is concerned, I think there are some important details you're not acknowledging. Do yourself a favor and look OSU's last five recruiting classes ('13 to '17). Compare the rankings to ours. Notice the difference in the classes ('14 and '15) that are the source of 3rd- and 4th-year players.

IMO we can *start* having the OSU conversation next year. Recruiting isn't destiny, as (cough) Sparty has shown, but it matters and OSU will have a significant advantage in the short term.

They didn't experience a failure of program stewardship that partially contributed to one bad hire (RichRod) and indirectly led to another (Hoke). They went from Tressel (and excellent recruiting) to a blip of Fickell and then straight to a two-time national championship coach in Meyer.

Expecting Harbaugh to beat OSU "just because" isn't reasonable at the moment. As you might say, "Period. End of story." Give it some time and let's see what we get.

Joined: 12/30/2010

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93Grad

November 1st, 2017 at 9:01 PM ^

13 NFL draftees and a far more senior team? Last year was such a wasted opportunity. Harbaugh was brought here to win those games. Not come up short and have everyone bitch about the refs.

Joined: 07/26/2011

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Honk if Ufer M…

November 1st, 2017 at 9:43 PM ^

YEAH! & why couldn't that loser Kerrigan beat Tanya Harding regardless of the tire iron to the knee?

Who cares that the refs caused a minimum of a 21 point swing in regulation and that OSU made far more playing and coaching mistakes or bad plays than Michigan did, only our mistakes matter and are unacceptable even though we outplayed them and they didn't have to pay for their mistakes because of the refs? Who gives a shit about facts and the reality of both corrupt and horrible officiating?

Why don't you and I run a race for everything we own? If you fucking utter a word of complaint when I chop off your foot with an axe at the start of the race.... well, you'll be a fucking hypocrite!

Joined: 02/22/2015

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bo_lives

November 2nd, 2017 at 2:39 AM ^

It's gotten so old. We have been bitching about recruiting for 10 years now ("the cupboard was bare!"). Recruiting is not going to get better until the program gets better. That's just how it works. On the field success has to come first.

Mother fucking Purdue has beaten OSU more times since 2003 than we have. That's just pathetic. Bo beat Woody's team of the century in his first year here. Tressel beat a high favored Michigan team at the Big House in his first year. Upsets are expected in this rivalry and yet we can't seem to pull one off. Sorry but the "OSU conversation" started the minute Harbaugh was hired. Great coaches get the most out of their players and Harbaugh was able to get plenty out of an awful Stanford program in just 4 years there. I really don't fucking care about the excuses anymore, I really don't. We are in a perpetual state of "next year is our year!" while OSU goes on and makes the playoff every year. Just beat those fuckers.

Joined: 04/10/2011

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jgoblue11

November 1st, 2017 at 9:45 PM ^

what do you suggest "we" do? I'm a Michigan fan. Being a fan means I stand with my team through the ups and downs. I can't physically go up to Coach Harbaugh and tell him we need to change our standards and make sure we win every game against every rival because of "tradition." College football is different now. Teams are very good, and our rivals are very good. Ohio State particularly. We will go back to beating Ohio state sooner rather than later. Us fans can't change what's happened this season. I stand with the team, not ditch them when they aren't winning.

Joined: 09/20/2017

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Blue Velvet

November 1st, 2017 at 10:42 PM ^

Enjoy the game. Root for your team. Ask questions and second guess the coaches from time to time. But don’t overthink things by trying to gauge the “proper” level of expectation. It’s not you out there. It’s your team. Support your school or go find a pro team to follow.

Joined: 08/31/2017

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MaizeMN

November 1st, 2017 at 11:50 PM ^

...you care more about Michigan winning the Jim Harbaugh? I'm sure the losses bother him, the other coaches and the players more than it does the alumni and fans. They've got the best minds on it. The beauty of Michigan is that it will never settle, or be content, with mediocrity.

Joined: 01/28/2012

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ST3

November 1st, 2017 at 7:19 PM ^

I recently explained to my son how the mail works. That box, on the side of the house, a mailman brings mail to us and puts it there. Son responds, "every day?!?" Yes, lad, every day. He's 13. I just don't know. Some things you take for granted, but I guess the young need to be taught these things.

Joined: 09/11/2010

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Blueblood2991

November 1st, 2017 at 7:17 PM ^

I think it's just being realistic about what our team is. Lost the most guys to the draft, youngest team in the country. Going forward, especially with the way Harbaugh inserts freshmen so frequently, we should never be in another spot where our entire roster turns over in a year. Harbaugh gets some slack for this year, not so much going forward.

However, at least in my eyes, the traditional expectations have changed from Big Ten Championship to National Championship. 

Joined: 06/11/2015

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Lakeyale13

November 1st, 2017 at 7:54 PM ^

I agree with most of what your saying, but what "slack" should any coach get for going 1-4 against our Rivals?  What program just accepts that is just how things are?  The Coach at Michigan's job is to beat OSU and Michigan St. more often than losing to them.  Any Coach that has a losing record against our Rivals (at the end of their tenure) is a failure. Period.  End of Story.

Joined: 11/16/2014

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mtzlblk

November 1st, 2017 at 8:04 PM ^

What....exactly.....do YOU plan to do about it?

I mean besides rant on a message board. 

I expect Michigan to be competing to be in the CFP every year at some point, realistically that is just going to take some more time. 

Until then, I'm concentrating on not foaming at the mouth and trying to enjoy what I can about M football.

Joined: 01/20/2009

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Lakeyale13

November 1st, 2017 at 8:19 PM ^

LOL, what am I gonna do!?  I typed a legitimate post on Michigan expectations.  As far as enjoying the rest of the season, call me negative, I won't enjoy much unless by some crazy chance we beat OSU.  I will "enjoy" seeing our team get better, but not watching them lose again to our Rival.  If we beat OSU, I will come back on this message board and eat my crow all day long.

Joined: 11/16/2014

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mtzlblk

November 1st, 2017 at 9:01 PM ^

liberal use of the term, but arguably not actually legitimate. 

Rather than adding your pearls of wisdom to any one of the plethora of the "state of M football team and expecations" threads and discussions, you created an entirely new one. Just for you. It would seem many find that an illegitimate thread. 

Any-who......your "special thread" basically does nothing but rant at literally thousands of people indiscriminantly about your perceived drop in expecations for the program, based on something that was supposedly said by a very few people on the board. Suggestion....when someone says something specific that you think represents a lowering of expectations, perhaps respond to THAT person....in THAT thread. Hmm?

Many argue the standards have gone up. I agree. In Bo's days all he talked about was Big10 championships and Rose Bowls and I think think people, Harbaugh included, aim a wee bit higher these days. 

The difference is only in how realistic an M fan is and how patient or impatient they choose to be about the current situation. 

You have obviously chosen IMPATIENT!!!! and kudos to you for that. Some people don't.

I have yet to read on this board anyone writing,"We can lose to our rivals forever and I don't care." which is what you are implying. Other people look realistically at the situation, realize we are where we are, believe are going somewhere better, and resist spittle-flecked invectives aimed at noone in particular.....then they carry on with their lives.

I'll ask again....what is your point? What is your goal in posting this and calling "people" out for "accepting it." What are you actually going to do.....specifically.....to NOT accept it, besides be unhappy if they don't improve? What are you asking everyone else to do? Be less happy with the situation....like you?

Joined: 01/20/2009

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Blue Velvet

November 1st, 2017 at 10:52 PM ^

Yes. Yes. Yes. Bo lost a lot of Rose Bowls and people questioned a lot of what he did. But he was our coach and our team’s leader. Harbaugh has that same quality. Would’ve been nice not to fumble a punt against State a couple of years ago and if we’d gotten the call in Columbus last year. I was distraught for a bit each time. However, don’t tell me we’re not heading in the right direction. We absolutely, positively are. The Rich Rod and Hoke years were pretty bleak. Those who stay . . .

Joined: 08/31/2017

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uncleFred

November 2nd, 2017 at 5:02 PM ^

and winning the big ten championship. Not by how many bowl games his teams won. To be clear Bo hated losing and wanted to win every game, but the people who paid his salary and the overwhelming majority of the fans, cared about "The Game" more than any other game every season. In those days bowl games were viewed as a "reward" where teams went somewhere warm over the holidays to play a football game. That is one of the reasons why the big ten adopted the rule that a team couldn't go to the rose bowl, which was the only bowl available to big ten teams, in two consecutive years. 

At one point in his career, IIRC the mid 1980s, in response to a question about which was more important, Bo admitted that he cared more about beating Ohio than winning a bowl. I was at Michigan through the majority of the ten year war. "The Game" was more important to us and to the team, so it was more important to Bo (not to mention he got to beat Woody). Had priorites been the other way around Bo would have won more bowl games. 

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