"Fire this coach!": A Michigan Basketball tradition

Submitted by Wolverine Devotee on

Michigan Daily
February 21, 1973-

According to Michigan Athletic Director Don Canham those South End Crisler Arena vocalists who have filled the air with shouts of "Orr must go" and variations on that theme, have done so in vain. Canham indicated to the Daily that Coach John Orr, much maligned for his cage squad's off again-on again performance will be on the bench leading the Wolverines next season.

"Orr will be back next season," Canham intoned. "I could not envision the season without him back."

***

In the past few weeks Orr has been under a good deal of criticism. His squad was expected by many to capture the Big Ten crown. However, the Wolverines have faltered at points during the Big Ten season and presently hold a 6-4 record.

During the defeat filled weeks many students and fans expressed more than mild displeasure with Orr's performance as coach. 

The remainder of Johnny Orr's career-

Season Record B1G Place Postseason
1973-74 22-5 12-2 T-1st NCAA Elite Eight
1974-75 19-8 12-6 2nd NCAA Round of 32
1975-76 25-7 14-4 2nd NCAA National Runner-Up
1976-77 26-4 16-2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1977-78 16-11 11-7 T-4th  
1978-79 15-12 8-12 6th  
1979-80 17-13 8-10 T-6th NIT Quarterfinals

 

Michigan Daily
January 27, 1989-

Fans fired up to see Frieder flee

Crisler Arena crowds have been telling Bill Frieder to throw his trademark towel in some other town.

These fans, who proudly carry "Fire Frieder" and "We hate Bobby Knight, but at least he can coach" signs, have expanded their vocal chords recently, booing Frieder at every occasion. Monday, the crowd jeered Frieder louder than archnemesis Bob Knight.

Some campus-area apartments now have "Fire Frieder" signs hanging in the windows.

 

People were losing their minds over a coach having these results recently-

Season Record B1G Place Postseason
1984-85 26-4 16-2 1st NCAA Round of 32
1985-86 28-5 14-4 1st NCAA Round of 32
1986-87 20-12 10-8 5th NCAA Round of 32
1987-88 26-8 13-5 2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen

100-29 record the previous 4 years.

I know I wasn't around back then, and sure, the NCAA flameouts stand out. But fans back then didn't have to wait THAT much longer for a few long runs...

When people wanted Orr and Frieder gone, neither of them had any long run in the NCAA Tournament.

John Beilein already has a Final Four and two Elite Eights. And some people want him gone two years after them when the entire starting five on that Final Four team is playing in the NBA.

This is a case of two things.

1) People having the same expectations the Football program has and placing them on the shoulders of the Basketball program.

The Basketball program has a good history. 
The Football program is arguably the top program in the sport all-time.

2) Know who you are. What good coach would want to come here if we fired one of the most respected men in the game 2-3 years after runs to the Elite Eight and Final Four? There were a lot of people flapping their gums in that 500+ comment threads, and none of them had realistic replacement suggestions. 

This isn't Duke, Kansas or Kentucky. 

MGoBoard
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doggdetroit

February 8th, 2016 at 5:10 PM ^

This is not really a useful metric to look at when hiring a potential coach. Remember, Beilein had 0 Final Fours when he was hired at Michigan. Per your logic, MIchigan should never have considered him. For the record, I thought he was a great hire for Michigan and his run from 2012-2014 validated it.

Also, alot of these guys have peaked or are at the tail end of their careers. Of the guys who have made 1 Final Four, only 2-3 (Smart, Ollie, maybe Marshall) have their best days ahead of them. If you decide to make a coaching change, you need to assess candidates on whether they can get to a Final Four and maintain that level of consistency given the increased resources and exposure that comes from being at Michigan.

 

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BursleyBaitsBus

February 8th, 2016 at 3:41 PM ^

No way, you're looking at the wrong coach from Kansas. Marshall is the only coach Michigan should want from that state. Self is a cheating bastard and Weber tanked the Illinois basketball program after taking over for Self. 

Gregg Marshall or bust if we're looking at proven commodities that might want to move to a stronger school. 

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MGoDillon

February 8th, 2016 at 2:52 PM ^

Dude. It's not always about record. I don't care if this team is now 21-2. If 18 of those 21 wins are against shitty teams and in the 2 losses we looked like a terrible team, I'm far more concerned with that than anything else.

We have looked beyond awful the past few games. If you're going to just act like its a fluke and we're going to bounce back, then you're just being naive.



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A2MIKE

February 8th, 2016 at 3:10 PM ^

I actually think this team is going into a perfect storm with the game at Minnesota.  

We are reeling, following 2 blowout losses at home.

Minnesota played us well last time, so they will have confidence.

Minnesota hasn't won a game in 2 months.

Few chances left to win at the Barn, so the crowd should be raucous.

I am calling it now, we haven't hit the bottom yet with this team.

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smcdani

February 8th, 2016 at 3:31 PM ^

Actually, UM is 16-7, the NMU game wont count towards tourney since its D2.  At best we are looking at 18-12 or 19-11 with 2 good wins and a high RPI and an SOS that is around 60.  That won't cut it.  We have too many MAC level players.

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trueblueintexas

February 8th, 2016 at 2:31 PM ^

I am strongly in the being held accountable camp (not firing). By that I mean, having to explain why the team is performing the way it is. This happens more than fans know between a coach and the AD, but there are times it gets toxic enough it needs to be addressed publicly. Here are the two reasons I think Beilein is at the point it needs to be addressed publicly:

- The Indiana post game interview. Beilein made three points and repeated them consistently: 1) Indiana was simply the better team tonight (ok, that happens, does not explain the coaches inability to quelch a 28 - 0 run). 2) The team is really young (that may have been true 10 years ago, but not in todays game). There is not a single true freshman getting extensive minutes. Donnal, Walton and Irvin have been in the program three years. MAAR, Dawkins, Robinson and Doyle are in their second seasons in the program. 3) The team isn't deep. That is the coaches recruiting and development responsibility. Yes Spike and Caris are injured, but it was the coaching staff that targeted and recruited Chatman and Wilson (who hardly play) and didn't have a legit back up PG on the roster beyond Spike (especially knowing Spike had a potentially chronic injury issue).

- The nature of the losses. Not only have all of the losses been double digit but MSU, Iowa, Indiana, SMU and maybe one more reached 25 point defecits at one point in the game prior to garbage time. It's not like teams are tacking on meaninless points at the end. In fact, Michigan is tacking on meaningless points or the results would look even worse.

I accept a basketball roster is different than football and losing a key player makes a huge difference. But the team should still look like it belongs on the same court against peer competiion and it is hard to agrue that has been true this year. 

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ShazorsThroneo…

February 8th, 2016 at 3:32 PM ^

Agree with a lot of what you said, but Wilson will have some productive years ahead of him. He's a talented athlete that is struggling to pick up the mechanics of the offense and is a bit slow to identify things on defense. Repetition and experience will smooth out those rough edges. Chatman on the other hand...not sure what happened to him...doesn't look like  D1 player.

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WeimyWoodson

February 8th, 2016 at 2:43 PM ^

when you bring in a pretty low level recruiting class in back to back years.  There is a reason a lot of these guys didn't have the most amazing offer sheet.  I like some of these guys but come on they are not top teir B10 level players. 

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UMxWolverines

February 8th, 2016 at 2:45 PM ^

I don't think it's always as simple as people make it sound. I mean the goal of a program (at least ours) should be SUSTAINED big time success. Neg me if you want but Izzo will go down as probably the 2nd best big ten basketball coach of all time behind Bob Knight. We have never had a coach come anywhere near that success overall. Is that because we didn't allocate enough resources to basketball? Or did we just not have the best coaches? It's not like MSU was any better overall as a program than us until Izzo became coach. Jud Heathcote won them the NC but was that him or Magic? Because the rest of his career is pretty unspectacular. So that leaves the question...who is our Izzo?

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jsquigg

February 8th, 2016 at 8:34 PM ^

I get wanting excellence, but I would put Izzo ahead of Knight when it's all said and done, so you are talking about finding a once in a lifetime coach.  I truly don't think people understand the institutional challenges at Michigan.  Not only is it harder to get the big time recruits, it's harder to replace them, and while I would applaud a Gregg Marshall hire I don't know if his style of recruiting would work at U of M or if he might step his game up only to run into the same barriers Coach B has.  I don't think it's as bad as people are making it, but due to the complexity of Beilein's system or other factors, it does seem like it takes him longer than others to adjust.

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MGoDillon

February 8th, 2016 at 2:48 PM ^

I'm not sure what your point here is. So other coaches have been on the hot seat and then succeeded afterwards. That has literally nothing to do with how things will end up with Beilein. Regardless of what your thoughts are on him.



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Rabbit21

February 8th, 2016 at 3:48 PM ^

Not saying I agree with the level of relentlessness, but if having to deal with some sort of negative backlash every time causes our favorite David Brandon destroyer to pause for a second or two before hitting "save" to ask "Is this thread, discussion, diary, etc. that I am about to post really necessary?" then he's doing good work, in my opinion.

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TIMMMAAY

February 8th, 2016 at 3:58 PM ^

But it's not like I'm coming out of nowhere with it, he started the thread and then makes absolutely inane arguments and keeps lifting the bar when someone shows him to be wrong. And I think you're exaggerating just a touch. 

Oh, probably my last thought on this thread (maybe); It isn't just WD that I go after, I really don't discriminate. When I see stupid, I call it out as such. Regardless of who posted it. It just so happens... well, you know. 

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Trader Jack

February 8th, 2016 at 5:09 PM ^

I'll admit that I'm probably exaggerating a bit. I think what I've noticed though and find annoying is that when you comment on other posts to point out the ways in which you disagree, or "call out stupid," you usually do it by making logical points or stating an opinion and backing it up with facts. With WD, you usually resort to cheap shots and/or insinuations that attack who he is as a person. If you drew the line at explaining why you think WD is wrong, that would be fine and would add something to the discussion. When you go out of your way to troll WD multiple times in the same thread, it's too much. And it usually distracts from whatever the actual discussion is. I've seen many an MGoBoard post about something completely different turn into a pro-WD versus anti-WD debate. That's mostly what I find annoying about it.



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TIMMMAAY

February 8th, 2016 at 5:53 PM ^

I really think you should go back (actually, you shouldn't) and re-read my exchanges with him in the threads where I have had exchanges with wd. Maybe the past couple have clouded your memory. I almost always go out of my way to remain civil, and explain to him exactly why I object to whatever it is that I'm objecting to. The thing is, you can't have an honest back and forth with him, it is not possible to do. He's intellectually dishonest, and resorts to "I know you are but what am I?" type of defense. I have tried reasoning with him, it doesn't work. 

I will admit that I get drawn in more often than I'd like, probably due to a character flaw of my own. I do however, try to keep it civil. Usually. 

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Avon Barksdale

February 8th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^

If Beilein doesn't make the tourney this year, and he fails to make it next year with Walton, Irvin, Duncan, Dawkins, MAAR, Chatman, Wilson, and probably Donnal, then he deserves to hit the road.

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ChalmersE

February 8th, 2016 at 2:55 PM ^

Without getting into the bigger debate -- as someone noted, Beilein's not going anywhere any time soon so debating the issue is at best an academic exercise -- I do want to address the fandom's reaction to the early Johnny Orr's years.  As someone who pleads guilty to chanting "No More Orr", I want to note his record at the time that the quoted Daily story was written:

13-11

10-14

19-7

14-10

13-11

And he was building off Dave Strack's multiple final four appearances (although to be fair, Strack's last couple of years were not very good.)  

Right after that article was written, Orr's teams went on a very nice upward trajectory (before declining just before he took the ISU job). So perhaps the watch word here is patience.

 

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adcough

February 8th, 2016 at 2:55 PM ^

so UM is a football school, mediocrity in basketball is acceptable?

please don't bring up Duncan Robinson in defense of JB's bringing in guys under the radar. have you seen his stats against real big 10 competition?

i don't expect final 4's every other year, but do expect UM being able to field a team with division 1 talent, and then contend every couple of years. not too much to ask.

they will likely miss the tournament this year. next year is going to be even uglier. that is why so many fans are losing hope.

 

 

 

 

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Erik_in_Dayton

February 8th, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^

Those guys aren't going anywhere, though I don't think they'll have much impact next year. 

I don't know what to think of next season.  Everyone who isn't currently injured will be back, but we haven't seen much from last year's freshman class.  Walton and Irvin, as much as I like them, aren't enough.  And as I said, none of the incoming guys seem like they'll make a difference right away.

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