Do you care whether DB forced Coach Hoke to fire Al Borges?

Submitted by Erik_in_Dayton on

Stephen Nesbitt, who apparently spent two years covering the football team, said on Twitter yesterday that he had to believe that DB forced Coach Hoke to fire Al Borges.  Chantel Jennings chimed in that she agreed.  Kyle Bogenschutz said that he agreed as well and that, if they were right, this would mean a "major problem" and "far greater issues than anyone knows" for Michigan. 

With all respect to Kyle Bogenschutz, I don't see a problem if their take is correct.  You would of course ideally like everyone to always be on the same page, but I don't see a big issue with DB essentially saying, "Coach, I know you love Al, and I know you believe in him, but as your boss I have to step in here and tell you that we need to make a change."  That's the AD's role at some level, like it's the HC's role to tell, say, his receiver's coach that something needs to change.

Am I missing something?  What is the argument for the other side? I don't know any of the people I listed above or have a Twitter account, so I couldn't ask Mr. Bogenschutz to explain.

EDIT: Yeoman asks a good question. Nesbitt's reason for believing Coach Hoke was forced seemed to be - and I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth - that Coach Hoke and Coach Borges were too close for Coach Hoke to have willingly done this. 

EDIT No. 2:  evenyoubrutus informs us that Sam Webb said he has a gut feeling that this was Coach Hoke's call.  FWIW, this puts me solidly into the camp that thinks it was Coach Hoke's decision.  Sam has a remarkably accurate gut.   

phill

January 9th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^

This is just beyond speculation.

If you think about it, it's not hard to be in two minds about firing Borges or not.

I am glad to have Nuss as the OC. But I wouldn't have been too sad to have him as HC either

GoWings2008

January 9th, 2014 at 5:40 PM ^

and everyone knows it.  That comes with a price.  I don't care too much if DB force him to do it, but I do care if Hoke didn't say, "Well, I don't want to, but I know that this is what's best for the program."

MGoDub

January 9th, 2014 at 5:40 PM ^

I'm not sure if this is a problem. I don't like that Hoke seems to be so buddy, buddy with every coach that he can't make a decision like this. I have had the feeling for a while now that everyone on this staff was too comfortable and that they lacked an edge. 

Overall though, I'm just glad someone in the athletic dept. was smart enough to make this decision. 

Owl

January 9th, 2014 at 5:40 PM ^

Nesbitt's a former Managing Editor for the Michigan Daily sports section. His years covering Michigan football were in that capacity. 

Just a little side info if anyone cares...

LSAClassOf2000

January 9th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^

Once in a while at work, you hear about personnel moves - not necessarily canning, but people being moved elsewhere - that were the idea of upper management and executives and not the regional or local management. I am not sure that it works quite like this in football, but if you have someone with a certain supposed scope of control suddenly shown that they are not given the freedom to manage as they see fit, it can be demotivating, even demoralizing. The implicit message could be interpreted as the powers that be not having confidence in your decisions. That's a difficult environment in which to operate and give one's all. 

Obviously, we don't really know what happened, but like others, I can see the concern if it did go down like that. Hoke doesn't publicly burn his subordinates, which no one should ever do anyway, so ideally it was indeed Hoke's call. 

Wendyk5

January 9th, 2014 at 6:33 PM ^

How can anyone say they really know Hoke at all (besides those who have direct contact with him in the program or are personal friends)? He gives nothing away in his press conferences. He says nothing. Everything is left up to speculation based on his past actions. But I don't think anyone without direct contact with him can genuinely know what went down and why. 

switch26

January 9th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^

i don't think it was Hoke or Brandon's decision..  I think the big time boosters that donate all the money said we have had enough.. this offense sucks..  Get someone that can run a coherent offense or get out

jdib

January 9th, 2014 at 5:42 PM ^

Let's be honest with ourselves here.  As long as our wins are in the double digits and/or snag a big ten title, I don' think anyone would care if the relationship of Hoke and Nuss was a real life version of the film, Step Brothers.

 

And I mean the beginning of the film, when it's entirely awkward.  Hell, halfway through where they are breaking shit in the garage and building bunk beds would just be a giant bonus.

Nick

January 9th, 2014 at 5:43 PM ^

that maybe DB and Hoke planeed to keep Borges around unless one of a specified list of slam dunk candidates became available or had interest.  Given the timing was after the bowls, and Nussmeier was hired within hours of Borges firing, you have to believe they had an agreement with Nuss before firing Borges.

If they actually did adopt that maybe or maybe not keep Borges plan, Im not sure I agree with that. Let him go or dont, dont let it be contingent on X happening.  If youre even asking yourself the question if someones the right fit, usually its time to move on.

UMich87

January 9th, 2014 at 6:02 PM ^

disagree with the second.  I do not believe that you "move on" unless you have a better option.  When things aren't going as desired, the fans inevitably call for the coach to be fired, but if you do it without a better option, the likelihood is that things will get worse.  Change for the better makes sense, but I can't agree with change for the sake of change.  That is just a reaction out of frustration.

FrankMurphy

January 9th, 2014 at 6:16 PM ^

To the contrary, if that's the way it went down, then I have no objections. Firing people is disruptive, expensive, and risky. It only makes sense to fire someone if (a) the environment around the organization has become toxic due to the presence of that person and a fresh start is the only move that will get the organization back on track (e.g., Rich Rod's last days at Michigan) (b) that person's performance has been such a train wreck that even the most minimally qualified replacement would do a better job, or (c) you're sure you can hire a replacement who is clearly an upgrade and would easily integrate with the rest of the organization.

Replacing Borges with Nussmeier seems to fall into the (c) category, which is fine by me. Imagine if Hoke replaced Borges with a 'meh' candidate like Noel Mazzone and the offense continued to struggle next season. People would have said that Hoke should have kept Borges. It's rarely a good policy to make changes just for the sake of making changes.   

MonkeyMan

January 9th, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^

From a purely intellectual standpoint it would be interesting to determine who the real head coach is and what exactly BH does. If he is just a recruiter then he is very well paid for only that role. It also would affect whether or not anything BH says should be seen as important in the future. I have wondered if BH was chosen by DB as a passive vessel for DB to be the surrogate coach.

jblaze

January 9th, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^

When companies have relatively independent business units, there is generally a "CEO" of the business unit (sometimes called president or COO or CEO...). This person usually reports to somebody who reports to the CEO.

While the business unit "CEO" (e.g. Hoke) is king of their castle, their boss (Brandon) basically has final say and reports to his boss, the CEO of the Fortune 500 company (MSC).

It's fairly common, so I don't see a problem. Afterall, Brandon's job is also on the line if the football team keeps playing poorly (even though our other teams are doing very well).

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

January 9th, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^

Al is probably better off at a new school without the friction with various stakeholders. I'm sure Hoke and Brandon are resigned to that fact regardless of loyalty to Al. Hoke is professional enough to move on. Besides, he has a full plate himself to right the ship.

MI Expat NY

January 9th, 2014 at 5:46 PM ^

I look around at some of the better programs and see head coaches that will look for every advantage to win games.  No detail is too small.  Whether it's a formation on kickoff to get optimal starting field position, or a punt formation that allows for best coverage, on any other of the myriad of ways to improve a team's chances to win a football game, the better coaches seem to do it.  These better coaches also are quick to look elsewhere when a coach isn't getting the job done. The best coaches will do what it takes.  Replacing Borges was the first sign in a while that Hoke is willing to do everything it takes to make Michigan the best.  If he did it because DB ordered him to in order to placate donors, then it would be more evidence that Hoke just doesn't have it in him at this level.  So, yes, I'd say it probably matters.

The only way it wouldn't matter is if Hoke made the decision, but did it because he knew replacing Borges and then seeing only modest improvement on offense would still probably be enough to get him to 2015, then no, it wouldn't matter who's decision it was.

MGoAndy

January 9th, 2014 at 5:48 PM ^

I'll take Sam Webb's "gut" on this one. 

Must be nice to be a "reporter." Speculate at will and never get held responsible for being wrong.

BlueTuesday

January 9th, 2014 at 5:49 PM ^

I'm betting that very question gets asked at a news conference at some point. There's no doubt that Hoke and Borges are good buddies. I have to believe that Brady would have asked Borges to resign before the ax came out no matter whos decision it was to fire him.

247Hinsdale

January 9th, 2014 at 6:17 PM ^

Yes, this was the exact situation I was thinking of. If Brandon forced Borges out over Hoke's objections, which is purely speculative at this point, I think that is a problem. The head football coach should know more about football, and what it takes to win, than anyone else on campus. While Brandon has responsibility for the overall direction of the program, I don't think he should be making decisions regarding coordinators, or position coaches, or individual players. To be honest, I was bothered that Brandon was reviewing film with the coaches. I certainly don't know his whole history, so maybe he has football acumen of which I am unaware, but I don't see what he brings to the equation.

The FannMan

January 9th, 2014 at 5:54 PM ^

If you listened to Sam Webb's show this morning he casted serious doubt on this claim. Since it is Sam, he never actually said it.  (You have to listen carefully to what he is not saying sometimes.)  He commented that it was his belief that DB's style is to let his coaches pick their guys, but let the coaches know that they rise and fall with their guys.  In response to a caller, Ira noted that Sam says things like that based on facts and what he has been told by inside sources. Sam didn't respond to that at all.

Reading between the lines - Brandon let Hoke make his own decision.  At most, he noted that 7-6 with negative rushing wasn't getting it done.  Hoke took it from there and did what had to be done.  Hoke is loyal, but i doubt he would blow his dream job over loyalty to Al.  At the end of the day, he has to think about his career and his own family.  

FWIW - Sam had been going on about how he believed that Hoke was conducting a post-year evaluation.  Since the bowl, he started saying things that suggested there would be a change.  This week his tone and implications strongly implied he knew something might be going down.  

bluewave720

January 9th, 2014 at 6:45 PM ^

What I find interesting, is that coaches are usually only considered "loyal" when it comes to their staff. But if Coach Hoke believes what he says about Michigan, and I truly think he does, his loyalty would more likely be towards this program. This program is a symbol. Something that millions of people are emotionally and financially tied to. Firing Borges, although obviously difficult, would be superseded by the loyalty Hoke has to Michigan.

Through success and adversity, Hoke continues to prove to me that he is the right coach for Michigan.

TenThousandThings

January 10th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^

Brandon's role would be in the pursuit of Borges' replacement. A "process" that was handled extremely well, even if just lucky -- Michigan was in a position to act quickly and take advantage of Saban's move. You make your own luck.

It's hard to imagine Brandon being directly involved in Hoke's evaluation of his staff after the season. His job is oversight in that respect. Hoke keeps him informed and maybe asks for advice or an opinion, but that's it. If Brandon doesn't like what Hoke is doing, he can fire Hoke. As many others have said here, if it's any other way, that's a big problem.

Space Coyote

January 9th, 2014 at 5:56 PM ^

Now, micromanaging I think tends to get too negative of a connotation, sometimes it is needed, and sometimes someone that has most of the information but a different perspective (Brandon, in this case) is a nice thing to have.

Ideally, like you said, everyone is on the same page, but not always. I think ideally it is the HC's decision, as he has more information and idea about his direction, but it can't always be.

While I believe this decision was done mostly because of the team itself (no individual players, but the players as a whole), and a little bit with recruits, fans do drive the outward perception of the program and often times are first impression outsiders have, including recruits, coaches, media (when getting a feel for certain aspects), etc. So fans play a role as well and I think ultimately played a role in this case to some degree.

There is one way this would bother me, and it would be if Brandon required Hoke to fire Borges despite his utmost wishes. If they ultimately agreed it was in the best interest of the program, or if Hoke at least understood, then that's fine. But to go over the head of those underneath you can be problematic.

True Blue in CO

January 9th, 2014 at 5:57 PM ^

There is no tougher decision a leader makes than to dismiss an employee, especially when there is a long term relationship and the decision is not for something like cause (violating a law or other ethical rule for which there is no excuse).  Good protocol is go to your supervisor with any critical decisions and to present options especially when there is added cost with a contract buy-out and hiring a replacement.  I think it is safe to say the decision was implemented by Hoke but how it was made (with or without Brandon) should always be kept private for all parties involved.

It is easy for all of us to sit in the stands, in front of the TV, or type on to this blog to fire a coach.  But as a business manager who has fired and layed off people, there is no more gut wrenching challenge as a leader.  This was tough for Hoke and and Borges alike and hopefully they can stay friends after some time apart.

BlueReign

January 9th, 2014 at 5:57 PM ^

This fanbase is so bipolar.

nothing positive can happen without speculation as to whether or not it actually a good thing or some forboding omen.

Borges play calling bummed me out quite a few saturdays over the past few years. But i didnt expect him to be fired and I was ok with that. Now hes gone, and we have a proven commodity who doesnt need 3 years to retool the roster for things to happen. A recruiter, a big name that people take note of which gives the program a bit of a boost after a thoroughly dissapointing year.

Im happy. 

Im interested to see what out young tallent can do moving forward. I have no intention of joining into a depressing conversation about the baseless validity of the positive thing which just happened to our football program.

MonkeyMan

January 9th, 2014 at 6:23 PM ^

If you stand back and look at it from the positive reaction to Nuss- then this worry- then its seems a little bi-polar. But what srong with bi-polar? If the world weren't bi-polar than Polar bears couldn't find mates. Do you really want that?