DCC: Iowa State DC follows UMichfootball on Twitter
https://twitter.com/WolverineCorner/status/1346355943173455873
Perhaps he is trolling. Perhaps it means more. I know folks here love to conspire.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:07 AM ^
It’s because Harbaugh mispronounced Nickto when he was reading from the necronomicon.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^
bruce campbell for head coach?
January 5th, 2021 at 10:46 AM ^
Just imagine the post game press conferences.
January 5th, 2021 at 11:56 AM ^
My avatar approves this message.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:21 AM ^
The most likely answer I've read in regards to the Campbell vs Harbaugh conundrum. +1
January 5th, 2021 at 10:07 AM ^
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but I know that this board would have lost their collective minds if 6 years ago Jim Harbaugh was passed over for this year Matt Campbell. None of that means anything and Campbell may end up being the next Urban Meyer, but Harbaugh's failures at UM are the perfect example of nothing being guaranteed. JH was the hottest free agent coach on the planet and had one at every place he had coached including the NFL and didn't get it done. I'm a bit hesitant to say that the head coach at ISU is going to come in and start winning Big 10 championships.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:12 AM ^
Look at you, being all logical and stuff. I’m not sure that’s allowed around here
January 5th, 2021 at 10:59 AM ^
Logic and reality are not static entities...expect great disappointment, even disaster, if treated thusly.
January 5th, 2021 at 11:48 AM ^
I have no idea what you are saying. But I’ll up vote you just in case.
January 5th, 2021 at 12:54 PM ^
“being the next Urban Meyer” is logical?
Has Matt Campbell won two BCS national championships? Or are we talking pre-Florida Urban Meyer? In which case has he won any conference championships?
He may be a very good coach, but I don’t see any options that convince me we’ll see any better results in four years.
January 5th, 2021 at 2:09 PM ^
Matt Campbell being the next Urban Meyer is as sensical as Joe Milton being the next Cam Newton.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:23 AM ^
Excellent point- nothing is guaranteed. Retaining Harbaugh, hiring Campbell, hiring someone else-non of these is automatic fix.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:51 AM ^
But does this mean we’ll have to give a new coach another 3-4 years to recruit his guys and implement his offense with his players? How many times have we heard that? Or listen to people complain when Campbell rolls out a two TE set.
January 5th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
True. But what if Harbaugh continues to languish at 6-9 wins with all losses to OSU for the next 4-5 years? We will be that much further out from being a relevant program with recruits and then we will still go through the whole coaching change and 3-4 years to recruit thing. Some coaches do have the ability to come in, win with the personnel they have and continue winning. Would it happen this time? Who knows but the flip side is do we have confidence that Harbaugh can right the ship and begin winning against OSU? He could win every year the rest of his contract and still have a losing record at this point against OSU.
Odds are at this point Harbaugh will be right up there with RichRod and Hoke for some of the worst records against OSU, only he will have more losses and I for one don't see him getting more than 1 if that many against OSU in the next 5 years.
January 5th, 2021 at 1:22 PM ^
"languishing between 6-9 wins"
Harbaugh has been here 6 years.
The 5 years prior to COVID years....literally one season below 9 wins. 10-3, 10-3, 8-5, 10-3, and 9-4. I'm not exactly sure where you have seen a constant 6-9 wins? ?
The Covid year....only 6 games were played, by the Michigan Wolverines, so it would have literally been IMPOSSIBLE to do better than 9 wins (win all 6 games, win the conference championship, and win 2 playoff games).
A Covid year with the most inexperienced team in the entire country (I'll be more than happy to provide proof of that). No Spring training, no normal summer workouts, all meetings from July 24-August 6 were virtual (which we know how much 18-20 year olds pay attention in Zoom meetings), and the majority of fall practice was no contact. Oh...and one of the brand new assistants never coached the team, in person. So, when exactly did the coaches have time to "coach up" the new players (like they would in a normal year)?
There's a reason why 3-9 (1-8 in conference) 2019 Northwestern comes in 2020 and does great. They had the #1 returning experience, in the entire country. They didn't need as much on field coaching. They were experienced, and were playing in the same system for years. That's a way different scenario than what Michigan had.
Every team in the conference, except OSU, Northwestern, Iowa, and Indiana had at least 3 losses. OSU is OSU. The other three were all the most experienced teams in the conference.
So....the "languishing between 6-9" is just lazy projecting, that isn't backed up in reality's results.
January 5th, 2021 at 2:31 PM ^
yeah, this is annoying me as well. I get that the team hasn't gotten over the hump with OSU or played for a Big 10 championship, but people are acting like this seasons win total has been the norm. Yep, I think the road record needs to improve and yep, I think they should be competing better with OSU. but lets not act like Harbaugh has been a complete disaster and the team hasn't won games.
January 5th, 2021 at 3:23 PM ^
What I think is funny is....the majority of the Matt Campbell hype is from this weird year.
However, what is the #1 complaint about Harbaugh? His record against OSU.
Can we agree that OSU and Michigan were on completely different paths prior to Harbaugh’s arrival? Obviously, that meant that OSU was recruiting a much higher level of recruit than Michigan, so there was a gap.
I keep hearing "look at what Campbell is doing with the limited recruiting resources". Mind you, his records haven't been all that impressive, but we'll ignore that. We'll ignore the fact that this "awesome" coach lost (this year) to Louisiana. Let's ignore all of that.
I'm sure the type of recruit Iowa can get is better than the type of recruit that Iowa State can get. Is it that much different than the difference between Michigan and Ohio State (these days)? If it is, then it's not much different.
Iowa State has ONE "rival" (unlike Michigan's 4).
Campbell's record against Iowa? 0-4
His predecessor? 3-4 against Iowa. Those 3 wins? 3 out of the 4 years prior to Campbell's arrival.
How exactly is this guy the one that can get "over the top" of OSU? He can't even get over Iowa!
Good thing he was lucky and didn't play Iowa this year....in his one really good year (cough cough Covid year cough cough).
?♂️?♂️?♂️?♂️?♂️
January 5th, 2021 at 5:16 PM ^
It's not only from this year, his name has been thrown around since we went 9-4 with 8 players drafted.
His team beat #3 Oklahoma his second year, and then #4 TCU a few weeks later. Harbaugh hasn't beaten a top 5 team his entire time here.
Nice cherrypicked stats tho
January 5th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
This is the weird reasoning that i see from the large groups of the suddenly pro-harbaugh crowd: "nothing is a sure thing". We are all very aware of that at this point as Harbaugh in 2015 was about as close to a sure thing as you can get in college football and he's been a failure. At this point, what I think the only sure thing about Harbaugh is that his teams will be disorganized, incapable of running tempo, incapable of running a two minute drill, underperform relative to talent level, and have gaping, inexplicable roster holes.
I dont think Matt Campbell is a sure thing, but Campbell is big swing on a guy that has an extremely good coaching trajectory that could take michigan to the next level. I'd rather be optimistic about Michigan's future than cling to Harbaugh's steady decline out of fear that a new coach would also fail.
January 5th, 2021 at 11:07 AM ^
Exactly, it's about trajectory. Campbell's is soaring. He won at Toledo and has ISU poised to finish in the top 10 for the first time....ever? (I don't actually know and don't care to look it up). He's beaten Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, TCU with significantly less talent than those teams have. He's young, his players love playing for him, he looks like a great motivator and a guy who just relates to people well.
As successful as Harbaugh has been, there were red flags that I think we chose to ignore because he was our savior. Namely, that he wears out his welcome and doesn't get along well with people. I think you see that manifesting with this year's team, guys who don't really wanna play for him necessarily. For some reason, he wasn't able to overcome that here like he was at Stanford and SF. I don't think you'll see that issue with Campbell.
January 5th, 2021 at 12:21 PM ^
Not really fair to call Harbaugh a failure unless the only criteria is CFP and Natty.
Players have generally stayed out of trouble and performed academically. Team has performed well overall, but some gross disappointments certainly.
Harbaugh has performed below expectations (his and ours), but below expectations is not the same as failure. I’m sure he is as frustrated as anyone. Question is can he raise the performance, do we accept below expectations, or time to move on?
I’m hoping for the latter, but the longer this drags on, I’m concerned about long term damage unless we have option B ready to sign as soon as Harbaugh bolts, and Warde pushing Harbaugh out the door.
January 5th, 2021 at 2:01 PM ^
The real test was OSU, he is 0-5 and if he stays another 5 years he will be 0-10. He could get back to that 10 win level in a few years but he will always lose a conference game he should've won and he will always lose to OSU. Even if he makes a NY6 game he will probably lose that game. Just look at his track record. What is going to change? I'd rather take my chance on a young new coach. Even if he only wins 8-9 games, I want to see the team excited to play again.
January 5th, 2021 at 1:03 PM ^
People on here act like we've hired nothing but sure-things in the past and they've all failed. Lloyd was hired internally and he was fairly mediocre most of his time as HC. Rich Rod and Hoke were far from sure-things and were both extremely controversial when they were hired. Harbaugh has been the only Michigan coach in modern history who appeared to be a sure thing at the time he was hired and he has failed. It happens. You just move on and try to get the best guy you can.
January 5th, 2021 at 2:27 PM ^
"and he was fairly mediocre most of his time as HC."
Mediocre enough to have won or shared the third-highest number of conference championships among all Michigan coaches, with 5. Only Yost and Schembechler had more.
Fritz Crisler had all of 2 and he got a goddamn arena named after him.
Lloyd had his faults, but being "fairly mediocre" wasn't one of them.
January 5th, 2021 at 2:52 PM ^
The Big 10 was not nearly as good then as it is now. He still went 9-3 damn near every year and had the luxury of playing John Cooper half the time he was there. He lost less than 3 games twice the entire time he was a head coach and he was sub .500 in bowl games.
January 5th, 2021 at 7:00 PM ^
He had 5 B1G titles and the team lost 3 games in all but one of those. He was VERY mediocre. Luckily for him, so was the rest of the conference at that time. 9-3 isn’t good enough to win the conference anymore.
January 5th, 2021 at 11:00 AM ^
Well no shit we would have lost our collective minds because we judged Harbaugh from his past successes and he absolutely was a home run hire at the time. We're still judging him from his more recent past and it turned out to be more failure than success and so what wouldn't have made sense 6 years ago actually makes more sense now. That being to get Campbell or someone that isn't named Harbaugh to take the wheel and see if there is a light at the end of the tunnel or if we keep marching into the dire abyss of mediocrity.
January 5th, 2021 at 12:39 PM ^
Trajectory. The last hire was based on that plus a familiarity with the program. The problem with the let it all burn crowd is that they’ll NEVER go away. So while some schools have one coach every ten years or so, we’ll just beat them and average every six years or so. Rodriguez, Hoke, then Harbaugh and guess who’s next?
January 5th, 2021 at 11:09 AM ^
I don’t think anyone is saying that he would for sure come in and start winning big ten championships.
what people ARE saying is that he’s a young and energetic coach that his players absolutely love playing for. They play passionate, inspired football. And they far outperform their recruiting rankings.
Basically, he’s everything Harbaugh is not right now. Whether that’s enough to catch up to OSU and win the Big Ten, nobody can really say. But the guy builds a great culture and that’s a step in the right direction.
January 5th, 2021 at 3:59 PM ^
ISU plays like they are ultra prepared. Granted, this is based on the 4 or 5 games I watched this season but it is what my eyes and brain tell me. They play inspired, they execute plays well, the QB makes wise decisions, OL blocks well, RBs run well, WRs run crisp routes, they tackle well, they punt and FG kick well, clock management and play calls make sense, etc. They do everything like they've practiced it 10000 times. The performance of that team, even against a juggernaut like Oklahoma, screams well oiled machine.
I would take Matt Campbell in a heartbeat.
January 5th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
JH was the hottest free agent coach on the planet and had one at every place he had coached including the NFL and didn't get it done. I'm a bit hesitant to say that the head coach at ISU is going to come in and start winning Big 10 championships.
I understand your logic and agree in part. But, there were signs. All the pundits said he's a bit of an odd ball and wears on people after 3-5 years. While I agree the overall sentiment was he was a home run hire at the time, I also think he has some fundamental personality shortcomings and some Xs & Os shortcomings in today's modern CFB game. I think there is some reason that a younger guy with more energy, who is more in tune with modern schemes, and who is able to maintain relationships with players and staff alike to keep the best players around and developed to their highest degree could be more successful than an older guy with a better resume. JH's best days are behind him where hopefully Campbell's are still in front of him.
January 5th, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^
Anyone can be hesitant about where people come from and if they will be successful. Who knows. I take passion and recruiting before x's and o's. Just like urban said. Thst recipe is apparently the way to go. Just not what urban did with his person taste
January 5th, 2021 at 10:13 AM ^
He's likely an upgrade over Harbaugh in some respects, a downgrade in other respects. In total it's hard, based on available evidence, to know if he'd demonstrably change the trajectory of Michigan football, and I think that's what people are pushing back against with the overwhelmingly enthusiastic "in Soup we Trust" outlook some people have. Because I can say with near-certainty that if I said "hey, let's replace Jim Harbaugh with the .500 guy at ISU" before this season, it wouldn't have been seen as a particularly good trade-off.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
You have a valid point - and LAST YEAR, I would have agreed that the change would not have been beneficial (would have been asinine, actually). But then this year happened. MSU happened.
What we saw this year wasn't just a bad year. It was the culmination of fours years of slow decline coalesced into a single season. It's the result of four years of poor roster management, disorganized recruiting, lack of offensive direction, and lack of team cohesion. I no longer believe that Harbaugh can do better here than 2016, and we all know now that the floor is 2-4.
For me, that isn't what Michigan football should aim for. Do I think Campbell is a surefire hit? No. Not at all - there is nobody that is guaranteed to win, not even Saban or Meyer were they to come here. Do I believe he gives us a good shot at improvement? Yes. Is it worth the risk to me, that the he could crater things worse than 2-4? Yes.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:35 AM ^
I don't disagree with any of this. I'm still hoping he stays and turns it around, but this year i'm more on the fence. I'm even open to giving this year the Covid pass. The main issue with me is the roster management and the DM situation. If the rumors of him being benched because he took himself out are true, I'm good with JH moving on. I get the football needs tough guys mentality, but its not 1980 anymore.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:47 AM ^
We lost 18 players, many of them key starters... we lost our QB too, and had all new OL. it happens... this isn't a typical performance. Not saying we will see Harbaugh/Durkin level again, but there was a reason we tanked.
January 5th, 2021 at 11:17 AM ^
Was that reason roster management and recruiting?
January 5th, 2021 at 11:31 AM ^
What do you mean by the DM situation? I feel like I've heard a million rumors on that front.
January 5th, 2021 at 11:29 AM ^
I'm not disagreeing with the premise that if this is the new norm with Harbaugh then we have to move on; he'd likely agree. But I always sort of assumed people would read a ton into that MSU loss, and it's sort of born out.
Michigan was without their presumptive starting QB, best WR, best corner coming into the season. Joe Milton has made strides but it was clear, even against Minnesota, that he still had issues and had room to grow. The team didn't have much of a fall camp, no spring ball, and like all teams was trying to navigate a pandemic-shortened season that was started and stopped a couple of times in a month. You can view these as excuses if you want, but it was also a reality that a lot of teams had to deal with, and Michigan struggled more than most both due to coaching failings but also a rash of injuries and players being out that got pretty extreme at one point.
I guess I just have a different outlook than you about Harbaugh's future. Do I think he brings them back to national title contention? Unlikely. But I've long held that Michigan fans who think Michigan has been a consistent national contender, or that such a contention is their natural state, are misremembering the past 30-40 years of UM football. And yes, there's a cratering below one 2-4 season during a pandemic; the two previous coaches to Harbaugh showed that there's a floor in terms of player development, gameplanning, recruiting, etc. that Harbaugh hasn't hit.
It's just a different outlook, and neither one is better or worse than the other. But I simply think people are reading way too much into one of the weirdest seasons in recent history, and making decisions based on that feels reactionary. YMMV.
January 5th, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^
Michigan isn't the only team that had to deal with a weird pandemic season, every team did. It can't really be used as an excuse. All it did was give us a look at what life is like without Collins, Thomas, Mayfield etc, guys we would be without next year anyways. And it's ugly. Like, blowout loss to .500 Wisconsin ugly, first loss to Indiana in 30 years in uncompetitive fashion ugly, getting significantly outplayed by winless Penn State ugly, triple OT against Rutgers ugly. And lord only knows what kind of hellfire OSU would've rained upon us this year.
Last year was a disappointment. 9-4 with an experienced roster full of NFL draft picks. This year was a complete disaster. The trajectory of the program is trending downwards significantly.
January 5th, 2021 at 1:20 PM ^
9-4 last year was also 9-4 with losses to the SP+ 1, 3, 6, and 11th teams and wins over the SP+ 19, 20, and 23rd squads. Michigan finished 10th in the country by that metric, and that felt about right given the fact that Michigan's raft of NFL picks were, on average, drafted lower than the raft of draft picks playing on teams like OSU and Alabama. We can argue about PSU and Wisconsin if you want, but PSU was a 1-score game (should have been a tie) and Wisconsin was, admittedly, the worst loss of the season because of how uncompetitive it was.
As for this year, lots of teams also struggled, in part, because of the pandemic and how it shaped their rosters and schedules, to say nothing of injuries. Michigan played Wisconsin down Paye, Hutchinson, Mayfield, Hayes, Collins, Thomas, and I believe Hawkins. They also lost a LB during the game. That's...not great. It's not an excuse, but the Wisconsin team UM played to start the year wasn't the same that finished the season, in part due to injuries and part to, perhaps, not having 3 weeks to prep for opponents after the first 2 weeks of the season. Indiana (until Penix went out) was one of the top 10 teams in the country, full of experience and largely free from catastrophic injuries to key players. Notice that once Penix went down their offense went with him and they struggled to beat a Wisconsin and then looked pretty bad against an Ole Miss team that fielded the worst defense in recent history, scoring the fewest points and picking up the fewest yards the Rebels have given up all year.
My larger point is that everyone assumes a new coach will come in and "fix" what's wrong at UM, but we've now seen 3 coaches come in and all sort of followed the same path. I'm not remotely sold that Campbell would come in and be anything better than #4, yet another guy who fans thought was a savior and simply ignored his failings until they got bored with him.
January 5th, 2021 at 1:45 PM ^
The way I see it is that any of Campbell's "failings" can be attributed to where he's coached. I mean, no one is gonna dominate at a MAC program but he still won 70% of his games at Toledo which is well above their historic average. Then he took over a completely moribund ISU program and has them playing at probably the highest level they've ever played at as a program. Those achievements count for something.
His recruiting is an unknown but it's impossible to judge how someone recruits to a MAC/bottom dweller P5 program. His offense is probably more manballish than you'd like, but hey he's not a perfect candidate. If he was he wouldn't be available. You have to ask yourself which is more likely to work out, Campbell or more of Harbaugh. If you think more of Harbaugh I'd love to hear why.
January 5th, 2021 at 4:13 PM ^
Another thing about ISU's good season in 2020 is they did it with Brock Purdy at QB. He was a 3-star on 247 composite, 839th ranked in the country. It's not like Campbell had a generational QB at his disposal to rain fire on opposing defenses and artificially prop up the head coach's stature.
Breece Hall was a 4-star, 339th ranked by 247 composite. And he was a solid contender for the Heisman all season.
To me, the norm at Michigan under Campbell would be at least what Purdy and Hall are accomplishing at ISU.
January 5th, 2021 at 1:24 PM ^
This argument only makes sense if you think that all teams faced identical situations going into the season. That's like saying getting sick with covid isn't an excuse because someone you know got covid and didn't end up ventilated.
January 5th, 2021 at 1:51 PM ^
I agree completely.
I was the biggest Harbaugh promoter when we hired him. I think he wasn't able to handle the failure against OSU (and the B1G refs) well and it kind of broke him."
If Harbaugh goes to the NFL I will root for him. Harbaugh may be a jerk but he is a Michigan Man.
If Harbaugh stays, I will root against him except for against MSU and OSU.
January 5th, 2021 at 10:44 AM ^
As we are seeing with Harbaugh the zealousness which a new coach/hope elicits can turn into intense animosity when said coach fails to meet expectations of fans.
January 5th, 2021 at 12:16 PM ^
It’s not just the fans expectations...he is failing to meet the ADs expectation, too. Hence, the extension with a lower base salary.
January 5th, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^
I think Campbell is this year's Brohm. Everyone wanted Brohm last year, he was the next great thing... now...
Campbell is not Urban. Urban was undefeated at Utah and won everywhere he was. I feel like Campbell is more like Brohm.
Extend Harbaugh, fix the coordinators and hire some recruiting coaches. Harbaugh is too competitive to not get things turned around. He is the best chance we have right now. 2 years from now, that may be a different story.
I like the idea of getting Moorhead here as a coach in waiting. Let Harbaugh get things moving in the right direction, he can then jump back to the NFL, and we then have one of the best offensive minds as our head coach that won't be RR.