Could this team be better with same players?

Submitted by hazardc on

Does it not seem like our defense has really been just getting better all season? Does it not seem like we are doing better in the trenches even on offense? 

 

Now, does it not seem like all the "skill players" (offense especially) have totally regressed to shit? 

 

Obviously a lot of it centers around the QB, and I'm hoping this bye week gives his bones some much needed rest... but  if funchess and gardner actually played up to their potential again for a couple games with the way teh defense has been holding teams up, wouldn't this team have a ton more potential to win. (I.E. points)

 

Does it look like that young OL has been actually getting better?

 

 

I don't want to suggest we don't go balls out for Harbaugh, I wanted him back in A2 when he was coaching stanford....  Just some observations I've seen lately.


When people were comparing that NW vs ND game, I think some people forgot what the box score actually looked like when we had a goose egg on the scoreboard....  

 

Am I crazy in thinking that SOME of this team is developing a little bit?  

 

I wonder what the spread will be in columbus... 

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tolmichfan

November 18th, 2014 at 7:59 AM ^

I like you... You got some spunk.. Ross doesn't play against spread teams, so he is barely on the field and you named about half the defense, so yes half our defense is three star, and half are 4 thanks for playing and proving my point. MSU has about the same mix of three and four star players we have on defense. Plus all his players are rs juniors and rs seniors. We have one rs senior on defense so they have a bunch of guys a whole year older, and they have been practicing the defense they run for the entire time these players have been in school. If you didn't read the blog at the beginning of the year I will enlighten you..... We switched defensive schemes. So our players have only been practicing this defense less than a year. Guess what practice does make a difference, and this defense held Gordon ( who just had a 300 yard game with the same issues at qb that Indiana had when we played them) to around 100. Also did you see how NW just had a pretty good offensive day against ND.

Joined: 11/26/2010

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funkywolve

November 18th, 2014 at 10:33 AM ^

You realize that if you look at the two deep, UM's starting defense has almost the exact same amount of years on campus as MSU?  (For two deep info on teams I go to www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts).  MSU's starting defense has 44 yrs on campus and UM has 41.  According to this site, Alabama starts 5 underclassmen?  How in the world can their defense be so good when it's so young?

ND's defense is awful.  In the last 5 games against ND the opponent has scored 42, 31, 39, 55 and 43.

Joined: 10/08/2008

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tolmichfan

November 18th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^

First do you think teams can get better or worse during the course of the year? I think defensively we have gotten better and this last week has shown Indiana and Northwestern are probably better then what we thought when we played. I know they are not the Buckeyes im not trying to say that, but they aren't MAC level schools either. To compare us to Alabama is just unfair to any coach. Do I think we can get there, I don't know, they have a lot of advantages being in the SEC. (Over signing for years is one, I think we can figure out others $$$ mostly). But they landed last year 5 Jabril Peppers level recruits on defense alone. If we had those type of players I don't think anyone would be complaining about coaching because we would have so much more talent then anyone else we play on our schedule. Again MSU's players have been practicing that defense the entire time they have been on campus. All 44 combined years they have been on campus. I don't know how to word this, but what age would you assign to a player that is just learning a new system? I would argue probably 1.5 or 2 depending on if they are a senior and already has a lot of technique down, and is just simply learning scheme. Or if he is like a freshman/sophomore type player and needs to learn technique over scheme I would assign them a 1. Those are just arbitrary numbers but I do think years on campus should somehow be adjusted for learning a new scheme. We started teaching bump and run coverage this offseason. The d-line that hasn't gone through such a shift in philosophy has been good all year. We have been getting torched early in the air cause Ryan wasn't getting enough depth in his zone and it also takes game reps to get good at bump and run. It's a lot more glaring of an issue on the offense, but they have ran the ball better this year. A lot of the offensive problems are because of QB play. I do like that sight you provided I have looked at it too in the past.

Joined: 11/26/2010

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1817

November 17th, 2014 at 7:30 PM ^

You are who you are and 5-5 is mediocre.  After 10 games and countless practices if you have a tiny bit of talent you progress.  This team on offense all around has regressed, and maybe these guys, although highly touted, just can't be better than they are no matter who coaches them.

Joined: 09/30/2014

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 7:30 PM ^

yes absolutely. While we have had a very disappointing season so far, there has been improvement.

That's why we need to keep Hoke.

By firing him, we set ourselves back another 5-7 years at the very least. There isn't a single quality coach who will want to come here with the revolving door that we'll prove ourselves to be by firing Hoke....Harbaugh included. Hoke has us on the righ ttrajectory and he'll get the job done, we just need to be patient.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 7:49 PM ^

nope. Just think about this logically and not emotionally. We'll have fired two coaches after 3 and 4 years respectively. One we fired solely because he wasn't a "Michigan Man" and the other we'll have fired because we weren't patient enough.

Now if you're a potential candidate what do you see in the University of Michigan?

We've got a great tradition and plenty of talent, but there is a ton of pressure to deliver results and deliver them early. If you don't win big within the first 3 years you're essentially out of a job (Proven by RR) and even if you do win big early on, you better not have a down year (evidenced by the vitriol towards Hoke). Add that pressure into all the different factions and politics that come with this job, why would any reasonable coach accept this job? We're a 2nd tier or even 3rd tier Big Ten job at best so why come to a place where you know that at the end of 4 years you'll probably be looking for a new job unless you can pull off some miracle?

Are there some coaches arrogant enough to believe that they could win here and bring us back? of course. But the fanbase has shown that they despise arrogant coaches, so none of them will want to come here either. That's why it's essential for us to give Hoke at least another year if not 2. We need to let Hoke fully develop his team and hope it works out. If it doesn't fine, then at least potential replacements will see that we gave Hoke a fair shake, something they won't see if we fire him at the end of this year.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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Wu

November 17th, 2014 at 7:57 PM ^

Okay. Based solely on on-the-field product, Rich Rod would maybe have deserved more time, albeit with a different defensive coordinator, since he showed improvement every year. It was other stuff that doomed him. But Hoke has gotten worse every year. At this point we can clearly see his first year as an aberration. He hasn't helped himself off the field either. At the end of the day, he should never have been hired to begin with. That's on the athletic department, which is thankfully in the process of change. So your argument that another coach would be walking into the same situation is somewhat invalid.

Joined: 01/08/2014

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 8:15 PM ^

The factions of the Michigan fan base and higher ups have persisted during both Bill Martin's and David Brandon's tenure's as AD. So, where's the evidence that they will suddenly reunite and become one solely because there is a new AD? It's the politics and "Michigan Man" crap that is keeping us from realizing our potential and I don't see anyway those factions re-align within the next 10+ years. So in essence, yes the next Michigan coach will be walking into EXACTLY the same situation as RR and Hoke did.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 10:03 PM ^

but if it was anthing reported on this site or others like it (247sports, rivals, scout) then I put absolutely zero credence into whatever was said. This is a blog, not CNN. While Brian and the rest of guys here do a good job reporting on what their sources tell them, We've been burned and mislead by so many "sources" that I put absolutely zero stock into what they say. I find what they and other "insiders" report interesting but I don't honestly believe a single thing they say... not until I see it with my own eyes. I guess I'm in the "show me crowd". Again, that's not taking anything away Brian and the other guys, we've just been burned way way way too many times, so if it's been reported that the factions have unified then my first thought is that the factions are more divided then ever before.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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bj dickey

November 17th, 2014 at 9:12 PM ^

Depending om what happens the next two a,es, hoke may deserve a shot back. I like him. But liking him doesn't mean he should be back, as you know. Beyond that, are you crazy? Rodriguez was fired because he was an incompetent coach. You can argue maybe he would have improved with another year. But his record was abysmal and his. defense lifeless. He wasn't fired because he wasn't a michigan man. Second, Carr responsible? Unless you think he ran everyone off when he learned Rodriguez was hired, them no, just no. Go look at the players on that team in 2007 that would have been back How did the team fare in 2006? 2nd or 3rd tier? In the conference? Now I know you're just sniffing glue. This is one of the top,5 jobs in the country that looks even better right Now with the loaded talent coming back and a fan base trained for low expectations after Rodriguez, and this year. Unlike when Brady took over we've got very significant recruits n not lines that are improving a lot.

Joined: 10/03/2014

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westwardwolverine

November 18th, 2014 at 9:19 AM ^

So Rodriguez deserved to be fired because he's incompetent but maybe we should bring Hoke back because? 

Rodriguez's defense was lifeless, but Hoke's offense is...what exactly? 

Rodriguez had no significant recruits, except those recruits then won the Sugar Bowl and went 12-4 in the Big Ten over Hoke's first two years...?

Are you insane? Honestly, you make no sense. 

Joined: 11/26/2013

MGoPoints: 9007

ESNY

November 17th, 2014 at 9:44 PM ^

Keeping Hoke would set us back even longer.  He has been given four years which is plenty of time and an infinite amount of resources and didn't do dick with it.  We have gotten appreciably worse this year and weren't competitive in half our games.   In four years, we haven't been a better team than us and lost to teams worse than us.  No upsets.  Just met expectations and beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to the teams we were supposed to lose to (and some we weren't).   Another year or two of the same mediocre results would erode whatever support he has left and would make it that much harder to come back from.  There has been zero evidence of being able to "turn it around"

He was given everything possible to succeed and failed.  No coach is going to be scared of that, especially at Hoke's salary.  Its another BS excuse to give a "Michigan" man another year when he barely deserves to finish out this year based on his performance so far.  They see a big program, with tons of support and tons of resources and great facilities.  No potential coach is going to be scared because Hoke was fired after shitting the bed for 2 straight years.

Joined: 11/06/2008

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 10:07 PM ^

Bo asked for at least 5 years to show what he could do. Why doesn't Brady deserve the same? Also, no decent, quality coach will want to come to the revolving door that is Michigan after we fire Brady, and I'm saying this as a very pro RR guy. I think RR got an extremely raw and unfair deal here and he could have won big had we been patient and now we're reaping the consequences of our inpatience. But for the sake of our program, we can't make that same mistake again.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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blueinbelfast

November 17th, 2014 at 10:06 PM ^

Hesitant to respond to trolling, but what the hell. The idea that we're a 2nd or 3rd tier Big Ten job is laughable. Jobs are measured in salary, resources, and available talent, not last year's record (teams with great records are rarely hunting for new coaches). In at least two of those three (and arguably all three) we are top tier. Also, coaches are all about ego. Few if any are going to turn down because they'll be afraid they can't win.
The idea that the HC job at Michigan is something that highly competitive coaches would avoid is one of the dumber things that pops up on this site.



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Joined: 11/28/2012

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 10:13 PM ^

what tier the job is in isn't based on 1 year. However, the program has been in the dumps for the last decade and there isn't any end in sight to that. Furthermore, take away the bias and we're clearly not a top tier job. There are at least 15 other HC jobs that are better than this one that I can list off the top of my head.

As far as head coache's avoiding this job, I don't see what's so dumb about that. would you prefer to work for a stable company making 3.5 million dollars or an extremely unstable one with constant turnover making 4 million? Most sane and rational people would choose option A.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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blueinbelfast

November 18th, 2014 at 10:55 AM ^

I've said it before, I'll say it again--any team that is firing their coach is relatively unstable.  That's part of the new HC's job, to restore stability.  And while we've had more turnover than anyone wants, 3 coaching changes in 7 year (one of which brought on by retirement of a longtime stalwart) is really not that unusual (see: Alabama in the 90s, Notre Dame, Florida...).

Joined: 11/28/2012

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blueinbelfast

November 18th, 2014 at 10:50 AM ^

There are lots of reasons why coaches turn down jobs.  The expectation that any coach is simply going to leave whatever position they are currently in, no matter how appealing it is or how comfortable they are there to take the Michigan job (or pretty much any other job) is thoroughly unrealistic.  The only reason we can even consider talking about Harbaugh right now is because things seem to have turned sour in SF.  If everything was going swimmingly there, and he turned us down, would you say, "Oh,, Harbaugh doesn't want the job here because Michigan sucks"?  If so, you're an idiot.

Joined: 11/28/2012

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 8:19 PM ^

and I actually understand it. Unfortunately it's not the next coach that needs to start recruiting those sixth graders, but the one we hire after running Hoke's replacement out of town that needs to start recruiting them.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 8:23 PM ^

I also understand how football works. Hoke was left with a quality team when he first took over but there was little to no talent in his underclassmen during that inital first year. So as the years have gone by, he's had less talent and experience to work with. Hoke's 3rd and 4th years were always going to be a down time for the very get go. He was handcuffed to begin with. Can't blame the man for a problem he didn't create. The problem is entirely on Carr.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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ESNY

November 17th, 2014 at 10:12 PM ^

Urban Meyer didn't seem to need five years to field a competitive team. He had to replace a heisman trophy candidate QB right before the season started with a redshirt freshman and has four new players on the OL and lost his bell cow RB yet It hasn't seem to impacted OSUs offense. Yet here we are, four years in and you are trying to convince us that we need to give hoke more time to "get and develop" his players.

Joined: 11/06/2008

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 10:16 PM ^

yes but OSU is a quality program that has sustained a history of success. Us on the other hand, while we do have a history of success, haven't been competitive or relevent in a decade. Plus the recruiting talent in Michigan isn't nearly what it is in Ohio. You can't compare the programs. It's apples and oranges.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 11:09 PM ^

is that over the last decade OSU has cultured a climate of success and has the mindset to go along with it. Michigan on the other hand has created a soft culture where losing is okay. "Win's are just a statistic" remember.

It takes time for that culture and mindset to change. It's not easy to do and Hoke is working on it and needs to be given the necessary time to change that culture.

My point about Ohio was that it's easier for them to recruit great athletes as their state is much more rich in talent than ours.
 

Joined: 11/17/2014

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1936

November 17th, 2014 at 11:25 PM ^

Do you think Hoke likes losing? Maybe you believe that Hoke is pleased with how the season has gone and that when he took over the job this exactly where he imagined he'd be in year 4. I on the other hand believe that Hoke is working his tail off to restore this program to greatness and that pulling us up from the doldrums Carr put us in isn't going to be an over-night fix. Hoke needs to be given the time and if in a few years he still isn't getting the job done, then fine, fire him. But at least we'll have showed future coach's that we won't abandon them at the first sign of trouble.

Joined: 11/17/2014

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UMxWolverines

November 17th, 2014 at 9:03 PM ^

5-7 years? 

I would love to know where you came up with that number. 

Recruits are decommiting left and right because they know this staff can't develop players and don't want to play for a coach that loses more games every year. 

Also I'd love for you to explain how the team has gotten worse every year there has been less Rich Rod recruits. 

Joined: 03/01/2009

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mdonley

November 17th, 2014 at 9:10 PM ^

Thanks I needed a laugh. Good thing there is still Hoke supporters around here who provide comic relief daily. Brady Hoke is a bad coach who never deserved to coach here. We're the only program dumb enough to hire a lifetime loser coach and think he's gonna change into Bo cause he coached D Line here.

Joined: 01/07/2013

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Brewers Yost

November 17th, 2014 at 7:37 PM ^

Shouldn't have moved Jake Ryan.

I think the " new" press with the corners thing died against ND and it took us several weeks to adjust. We basically lost all the preseason prep working on a system that never came to fruition. Just my observation.

Joined: 07/14/2008

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Maizinator

November 17th, 2014 at 7:58 PM ^

I think Ryan has played well once we were a few games in and offenses have a lot more trouble scheming away from him.  Seems like it panned out like Mattison wanted it to.  Would have been nice to see Peppers in that secondary.

Joined: 12/11/2013

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AlwaysBlue

November 17th, 2014 at 7:43 PM ^

is much closer to being good than bad. It's obvious they lack the swagger confidence and seniors help create. When one thing goes wrong they become more tentative. It kills them that the guy who should be in charge of confidence, who should pick up the unit and execute the next play, is DG. It hurts not to have Peppers confidence on defense. If DG had just been average they'd have 2 more wins. If Funchess had been more than average think of the momentum shifts he could have created. When and if the real story of these last several is written we will find a program going off course in Carr's last years (when he admittedly lost his fire), lost without Bo's voice and going sideways and ultimately downward under Rodriguez. Hoke has rebuilt a decent roster of guys who bought the Michigan vision. The team will be better next year no matter who the coach is.

Joined: 11/23/2008

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westwardwolverine

November 18th, 2014 at 9:21 AM ^

But he's not. And a lot of it boils down to how he was handled during his time here by Hoke/Borges. 

And on top of that, they have no one to replace him with because they were/are woeful at QB recruiting. 

So what is your point? 

Joined: 11/26/2013

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