Could this team be better with same players?
Does it not seem like our defense has really been just getting better all season? Does it not seem like we are doing better in the trenches even on offense?
Now, does it not seem like all the "skill players" (offense especially) have totally regressed to shit?
Obviously a lot of it centers around the QB, and I'm hoping this bye week gives his bones some much needed rest... but if funchess and gardner actually played up to their potential again for a couple games with the way teh defense has been holding teams up, wouldn't this team have a ton more potential to win. (I.E. points)
Does it look like that young OL has been actually getting better?
I don't want to suggest we don't go balls out for Harbaugh, I wanted him back in A2 when he was coaching stanford.... Just some observations I've seen lately.
When people were comparing that NW vs ND game, I think some people forgot what the box score actually looked like when we had a goose egg on the scoreboard....
Am I crazy in thinking that SOME of this team is developing a little bit?
I wonder what the spread will be in columbus...
November 18th, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^
November 17th, 2014 at 9:06 PM ^
Yes, by letting the roster fully mature. We're improving as the season goes along and we start maybe three or four seniors? And a couple of those positions will likely be upgraded with Morris and Peppers.
We have less fourth and fifth year players than anyone in the B1G except Penn State. About 18 of Sparty's 22 starters are fourth and fifth year players. We'll be better at about every position in 2015, through maturity if nothing else. This thing is on the verge of really jelling, in my opinion.
November 17th, 2014 at 9:06 PM ^
We're not improving at all.
We're playing Penn State, Northwestern, Indiana, and Maryland later in the season instead of Notre Dame, MSU, Minnesota, and Utah.
How is 10 points against Northwestern improving?
November 17th, 2014 at 10:44 PM ^
What have you seen from Morris that makes you think he'll be better next season?
I do see the OL improving slightly, the pass pro has been good, but then that's against Indiana and NW. I do think they'll be better next year, not dominating, but hopefully at least consistent.
November 18th, 2014 at 9:23 AM ^
Our Oline is improving somewhat.
But here is the test that I gave SRK above:
What happened in the last real game we played? We lost 35-11 to MSU.
What happened in the last real game before that we played? We lost 30-14 to Minnesota.
The team hasn't improved much at all. Its hangs with bad/mediocre teams and loses to good ones.
Next year, if Hoke somehow stays with his 6-7 record, we'll get to hear about how we are just an upperclassman at QB away from winning the Big Ten.
November 17th, 2014 at 7:58 PM ^
It's kind of an unanswerable question, isn't it?
We will never know whether the players on Team Whatever This Is could have done more or been better, because a number of them will graduate, and there will be new players who didn't get playing time this year.
There have been bits and pieces of improvement over the season. But as the M00N game showed, there hasn't been as much as one might expect.
November 17th, 2014 at 8:16 PM ^
The real question is, could this team be expertly trained with nunchucks with the same players?
November 17th, 2014 at 8:22 PM ^
yes, yes, yes, a million times yes. that's why we need new coaches. this is a stupid question.
November 17th, 2014 at 8:42 PM ^
actually.
Same QB, no skill at WR, avg RB's at best, below average o-line. You aren't going to squeeze much more out of a Gardner led offense.
Defense, eh, I don' know, hard to say how much influence Mattison has had. He tends to look overrated to me, but this defense has been in awful position all year because the offense sucks so hard. A lot of other D coordinators could have really screwed this up.
I do feel strongly with a different staff, the 4 year development might have been better and led to a better 2014 team. We'll never know though.
November 17th, 2014 at 8:55 PM ^
The scoring defense this year is about six points better than that of last year. Had the 2013 D been as successful as 2014, Michigan wins at least three more games.
Interesting, isn't it? During the 2013 season Michigan's scoring offense put up almost 32 points per game while the defense allowed 26 points per game. The thinking in January was that the offense needed to score more points to give the defense a break. So here we are, the defense is now allowing only 20.4 points per game but the offense has been reduced to scoring 20 points per game.
November 17th, 2014 at 8:56 PM ^
November 17th, 2014 at 9:05 PM ^
Because it's a point in favor of retaining Hoke.
November 17th, 2014 at 9:09 PM ^
Why does our defense get carved against any decent team then? Langford had 177 yards against us and Cobb had 183. Gary Nova had 400 yards through the air.
November 17th, 2014 at 10:14 PM ^
November 17th, 2014 at 11:13 PM ^
In 2012 MSU had an elite defense and a terrible offense but not once did they blown out like we have. The offense not being able to move the ball has nothing to do with it.
Also the defense is not young at all. We've already been though this.
DL all a senior, RS sophomore, RS sophomore, and senior in Beyer, Glasgow, Henry, and Clark
LB all has senior, junior, and junior in Ryan, Bolden, and Ross
CB has one senior in Taylor and a sophomore Lewis
Nickel has RS junior starter in Countess
Safety Wilson is a junior and Clark is a RS sophomore
How can you consider that young?
November 18th, 2014 at 12:21 AM ^
November 18th, 2014 at 1:30 AM ^
Bullshit. OSU has 7 seniors to our 5 starting (but we have 3 RS Juniors) but we have 10 guys in their 3rd year (Junior or RS Sophomore) vs their 6 and they have 9 guys in their 1st or 2nd year (Sophomore, reshirt freshman, freshman) starting vs our 4.
Contrary to the myth you believe it's not required for a team to have 10 seniors starting to be any good.
November 18th, 2014 at 8:35 AM ^
November 18th, 2014 at 9:25 AM ^
Troll away.
November 18th, 2014 at 9:24 AM ^
Because he's not a Top-5 coordinator.
He's good. That's about it.
Our D has underperformed this year.
November 17th, 2014 at 9:08 PM ^
We're not getting better our opponents keep getting worse. Wait to OSU gives us a Mike Tyson size beat down and you will see that we're crappy on offense and defense.
November 17th, 2014 at 9:20 PM ^
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November 17th, 2014 at 9:48 PM ^
I love the argument people use that ''Rich Rod left Hoke with no talent'' yet every year with less Rich Rod recruits the team has gotten worse. AND Dantonio inherited a bigger mess and yet his team went 11-2 in year 4 and 11-3 in year five.
November 17th, 2014 at 10:05 PM ^
November 17th, 2014 at 10:38 PM ^
RR's line wasn't any smaller than average. The only 'small' OL RR had was Dave Molk, and he may have been one of the best centers this teams ever had.
November 17th, 2014 at 9:52 PM ^
November 18th, 2014 at 5:35 AM ^
Doesn't matter what offense you put Gardner in he can't read a defense. He is the worst throwing Quarterback I have ever seen play at Michigan. All I ever hear is how he has been a wasted talent. Well the good ones shine no matter who the coaches are. If you can't drop back and make simple reads that you learn in Junior Varsity football than you're not a great talent. Gardner was a athlete playing Quarterback who excelled at a Michigan High School level cause honestly the competition isn't that great that he faced. Than you factor in that he's all world with nobody chasing him in shorts and a tshirt playing 7 on 7 and the myth of Gardner being great began.
November 17th, 2014 at 10:04 PM ^
I think that the 2011 season, in a titanic piece of irony, showed that. 2010 was a pretty talented team that was clearly pulling in all different directions. The coach had more or less lost them. Then a new set of coaches comes in and everything falls into place. Although, in retrospect, I see that the Sugar Bowl was a harbinger for things to come. Bad things. Horrible things that cannot be unseen.
I pretty much guarantee that whoever comes in will light it up with this team in 2015.
November 17th, 2014 at 11:02 PM ^
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November 17th, 2014 at 10:12 PM ^
Hell yes.
November 17th, 2014 at 10:19 PM ^
in my mind, this team would not be MUCH better with a good head coach. The good head coaches adjust their style to their personnel and can adjust their gameplan on the fly. The are proactive and reactive. Hoke cannot do either of those things. There's two areas I give Hoke credit - hiring Mattison and recruiting (until the 2015 class). Other than that, he is not a big time, big program football coach
November 17th, 2014 at 10:26 PM ^
To the general question - yes. Let's recall what Mattison did with the defense.
Michigan ranking in total defense:
2010: 110th Rodriguez/Robinson
2011: 17th Hoke/Mattison
That was with almost the same group of players. That's coaching.
However I think an offense can take longer to turn around, even with improved coaching. It generally takes time for a QB to learn an offense.
I do agree that the OL seems to be doing better. Not great, but at least the pass pro has been pretty good these last couple games.
So yes. But the offense will probably take time even with a new coach...
November 17th, 2014 at 10:40 PM ^
The right coach would have this team clicking to the tune of 10-11 win seasons just about every year.
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November 17th, 2014 at 11:31 PM ^
Hindsight is 20/20, but if Hoke came in in 2011 with Mattison and went outside his comfort zone to hire a spready OC because our PERSONNEL, we might be lamenting about a 1-2 loss team right now, but with his job secure. As a team year to year, going 11-2 with a BCS win was probably a BAD thing in hindsight as it appeared as though a seamless transition to a pro-style O was a given. The problem was of course, you had one of the greatest players in NCAA history as your QB, masking our problems with ridiculously talented and lucky play. Next comes Devin, who is a much more normal human that COULD have been a good quarterback in a system that fits his skill set. Unfortunately, the switch to a pure manball set led to a lot of drop backs where he got absolutely destroyed on a regular basis and in the course of that he lost the ability to make plays like he did in the video. I am shocked to see how quick he looks on some of his runs. Those days are long gone. If we had an offensive philosophy that fit the dual-threat QB that we had, Devin might not have gotten murdered on the reg, and with the defensive improvements we've made, it still might be Hokeamania in Ann Arbor.
November 18th, 2014 at 8:30 AM ^
Seriously..I'm not sure this team could be any worse when you consider the talent. Only one team in the conference has out-recruited UM under Hoke and UM hasn't even played them yet.
November 18th, 2014 at 9:29 AM ^
I think the O line is slooowly getting better. The RBs are slow in getting to the line. The couple that do have decent speed are not strong. Devin is marginal at best in throwing the football and he's unable to run freely. The offense is not good. The defense has been pretty steady all season and would look better with an offense supporting them.