Before this weekend, I was really impressed with how we had played at Iowa. I was also really unimpressed with the way OSU was playing, obviously on offense. I thought we had a really good shot to end the season playing the same role that MSU played against us earlier in the year – underdog playing one game to basically define a season. After the Purdue loss, I am worried that this sort of thing could rally the Suckeyes. There is undoubtedly a boatload of talent on that team, and Tressell may very well realize that his "philosophy" might not work against teams with an explosive offense. While I'm glad to see OSU lose, I kinda would have been ok had they won (just barely) and maintained the status quo until november.
Anyone worried that the OSU loss is a bad thing?
Whenever OSU loses, that's a good thing.
Whenever OSU wins, that's a bad thing.
No, because there are some structural things wrong at OSU and they are being exposed, and Tressel cannot fix them. For example, every defense from here on out is going to sell out against Pryor and challenge the Scarecrow ("If I only had a brain...") to beat them with his brain and decision-making. He will melt down, but still win enough to keep him cemented into the starter's role. When we arrive, our DLine will be savage and GERG will sell out against OSU (he had better).
Pryor to OSU was the best thing that has happened to Michigan in years.
"Pryor to OSU was the best thing that has happened to Michigan in years." Couldn't agree more. The funniest thing about this statement is that there were a lot of us who said this at the time that he chose tUOS, but we were flamed to no end. I'm not saying this to pump my chest, or anything of the sort, but rather just that this was so easy to see coming having actually seen him play quite a few times in high school when I lived in western PA. He definitely has phenomenal athletic ability, but the hype just wasn't warranted. He did what he did playing in the lowest level of high school football in Pennsylvania. His physical tools allowed him to do what ever he wanted without ever having to worry about the mental side of the game at all.
Maybe we wait until later than 1/2 way through his sophomore year to declare victory? Like - maybe until we beat him once?
We should remember as well that we've seen this song and dance from OSU before - look mediocre in the middle of the season, only to surge at the end. I still expect OSU to be our toughest opponent.
Hey Michigan fans, remember how right you were when you wrote me off half way through my sophomore year?
And we actually won the game his freshman year instead of getting clubbed.
I was way more worried about Smith because he was mobile (and we all know that a mobile QB is kryptonite to the Mich defense), than the epic recruiting bust that was the golden boy Justin Zwick.
Had Zwick not sucked so bad, we would have never had to worry about Smith.
I wasn't declaring victory. I was saying that his inability, to this point, to develop into an actual quarterback is not surprising to people who judged his value as a recruit based upon having actually seen him play, rather relying on the hype of news articles and scouting services. It's fine to think otherwise. However, if you do, just ask yourself one question: what has he done, at any level of his playing career, to justify an expectation that his ability as a quarterback will improve?
As for beating him once before commenting on this, whether or not Michigan beats Ohio State while he is quarterback for Ohio State isn't necessarily relevant to evaluating whether or not Michigan is better off for him going to Ohio State and evaluating Pryor as an individual player.
I was saying that his inability, to this point, to develop into an actual quarterback is not surprising to people who judged his value as a recruit based upon having actually seen him play, rather relying on the hype of news articles and scouting services.
Merely curious: how do scouting service evaluate him? Sheep entrails? Bird flight paths? Oracle consultations?
I understand your point, and I'll try to clarify what I meant. I do appreciate the tone of your response though; it made me laugh.
I wonder, and this is a serious question, how many times the scouting services actually saw him play in person and how much homework they did regarding the level of competition that Pryor played against. I'm serious in this question because if you looked at him on tape, or went to a few games, he looked like a hulk in cleats that resembled the second coming of Jesus. He could throw a laser to an open receiver or out run (or run over) a defender. There is no doubt about that. But if you take into account that he did the vast majority of what he did at the high school level against the smallest schools in the state of Pennsylvania (teams that struggle to fill and entire roster of players), it validly raises the question of whether the scouting services at all considered the level of opponent in evaluating him as they did and whether they adequately evaluated his decision-making abilities (or if they ever do that with any player) because at the high school level he simply never (and I mean NEVER) had to read a defense. I think an extremely valid question, at least in this case, definitely is just how the scouting services do evaluate players because it definitely appears that they might have taken the sheep entrails and oracle consultation approach in this case.
The other point that I was making is that there are a lot of people who post here whose entirety of knowledge on Pryor before he started at tUOS was what they had read somewhere else (i.e. no personal observation). The same can be said about a lot of the people in the media. I was just back in Pittsburgh this past weekend and several of us who had seen him play at Jeannette multiple times were talking about just this subject (ironically, on Friday before the OSU-Purdue game) and no one was surprised that he has struggled this much.
Pryor will be cemented into the starters role at OSU because they have no other choice. Name the next QB in the OSU program poised to take the reins. There is nobody. Terrelle Pryor is Tressel's own private Drew Henson, except in this case, Pryor isn't that good.
It could work the opposite way as well. I know Dinardo isn't a very intelligent guy, but on the BTN they were talking about how losses like that could unravel a team. It's true, if your offense is turning the ball over and failing to score the defensive players will not only question the offense but the coaches as well.
It will be pivotal to see where the Buckeyes go in the coming weeks. They play Minnesota this week and New Mexico State next week (really?), but finish the season with Iowa, Penn State, and of course Michigan.
lack of it. But looking at his coaching history with LSU and Indiana, it's clear he is no novice when it comes to watching teams unravel.
Furthermore, the formula for controlling the OSU DLine is to hit them with fast developing, short passes, our forte. Expect RR to have the full playbook in action with few opportunities for their DLine to apply pressure.
OSU losing is ALWAYS a good thing.
agreed on the quick passes... my analysis for the keys to the passing O vs pass D is "GET RID OF THE DAMN BALL".
because if tate starts taking hits from Cam Heyward, Lawrence Wilson and that thug, Thad Gibson, it will get ugly.
Yes, he will get broke.
Losses to bad teams will embolden the enemy. No longer are the infidels untouchable to even bad Big Ten teams. Viva Rodriguez!
I share OP's concern but I also think that an OSU loss before the Michigan game was pretty much inevitable. Their defense was bound to have a less-than-stellar day at some point...I follow them pretty closely, FWIW, and I expect them to come out strong this week.
Because OSU fans around town dont want to talk about college football suddenly. Their silence and reluctance to talk is the down side.
Oh wait, no it's not.
It was the best result of the weekend. Bar none.
Nothing is sweeter than the smell of Buckeye panic and the sound of Buckeye silence after a loss. People around here are apopletic and I am loving it.
I can only imagine the quiet fun MDan is having down inn C-bus today. I might even turn Bruce Hooley on or something for more fun.
LOL, yes, jamiemac has it right. Actually, not in CBus until Wednesday, but the texts have been delicious (for your entertainment):
"You guys are going to crush us."
"Tressel is a dinosaur."
"Tressel should be running 4 and 5 WR sets. Create some running lanes for him. Oh, wait, he can't make more than one read."
...and my favorite...
"The worm has turned. Us into the tar pits and you coming out."
I think the Always Have Tempe crowd has it right... while not a full blown programmatic meltdown, this season and the Purdue game in particular now have Bucknut nation questioning the long term viability of traditional Tresselball (exceptional D & ST, offense that doesn't turn the ball over). The fact that Pryor is now on a path to stay 4 years will scare away top notch QB recruits (much like the "promise"'s effect once we got Henson), and leave OSU 1 Pryor injury away from a potential devastating crash. The sum of these instances have now cast a shadow of doubt and once the psyche of invincibillity (at least in conference play) is broken, you can not rebuild it quickly, especially when your QB is a main cause of the troubles.
This guy seems to think it's a bad thing. (HT: BHGP)
I've made it 6 minutes in, and this is awesome.
Wow. I'm going to try to watch the whole thing. Wish me luck!
How far did you get? I tried, only got about 3 mins in.
Toothpick guy challenges Pryor to a fight.
I finished it, but I was doing email, etc. while I listened. I don't know if I can count it if I wasn't staring at his face the whole time.
And yes, I would like to see him fight TP prison style. That sounds awesome. I think that's one thing TP could really excel at.
It was tough, but I got all the way through it. Nice tooth.
A full 9:58 of wow.
His lisp that comes from his lack of teeth just adds to the hilarity for me.
Brian's TWIS should just be a simple link to "Redneck Rocker".
I just laughed my ass off. Plus I just got 10 minutes to look through & cut up for a future "classy" video showing these wonderful fans from down there.
I could only see this loss being a negative if OSU had been cruising to easy wins, and a loss would wake them up. Instead, they've been struggling offensively all year, and this loss just further emphasizes that.
I like the fact that we play them as the third game in a brutal November stretch for OSU: at Penn State, hosting Iowa, and then their trip to Ann Arbor. If anything, we benefit from the difficulty they'll have in being emotionally up for three difficult games in a row.
You're right. I really wish OSU would just win every game they play. That would be much better for Michigan.
that wasn't an unfocused team having a bad day type of loss. That was a "there are some things we simply cannot do and someone exploited them" type of loss.
they might improve between now and our game with them, but it won't be because they rallied around this loss. and I get the feeling that one more multi turnover game by Pryor is going to put the "position switch" chatter into high gear which can't be much of a confidence builder for a struggling offense.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon. That's always been the difference between us, Daniel."
We can't stop the run? Huh.
Is warranted by onely ONE thing: Michigan beating them. As Jack Kennedy might say: "If not this year, when? We've already had the 'who' part answered a few teams. But this MUST be the year Michigan beats them. Ask not what Michigan can do for you; ask what YOU can do for Michigan."
Wow. Sage words indeed.
People can bloviate all they want about how Pryor is Da Suckies--but what they gonna do if he rolls into Ann Arbor and they wax UM again?
UNTIL Michigan beats them, I'd not spend the time shoveling dirt onto TP's grave.
did he say that before or after his 1 carry for 6 yards? i'd like to think he said it during, actually.
Ohio State losing is NEVER a bad thing.
The part of the video is at the end he tells TP to "think about what I said son, me and you prison style" LMFAOROTF!!!
yes, LMFAOROTF!!!, indeed.
ruffle TP's feathers that bad, I think we should really hope for Iowa to do much worse. If so, TP could be coming into Ann Arbor really down on himself. Any sign of adversity could cause him to struggle.
That being said, I'm really not a big fan of having to play Wiscy the week before OSU. Wiscy is just one of those teams that beat the hell out of you, even if you win the game. While OSU gets PSU and Iowa immediately before us, they are a little deeper than we are.
OSU losing at Purdue
1) there is now doubt in the OSU camp, they are questioning they're leader, questioning his play calling , questioning his philosophy......all proven to be winners. A little discord in the enemy camp is always a good thing.
2) Michigan still holds the record for most consecutive Big 10 road wins........for OSU to even get close to that record again means another 4 years of winning every road game and that is not likely to happen.
Otherwise it really doesn't matter, the game in Ann Arbor is their super bowl and they will be jacked as always.
... and when TP is largely to blame, even better.
Perhaps RichRod wanted Pryor at WVa, but knew he couldn't cut it at Michigan. In this scenario, his aggressive courting made Tressel want him even more and promise him the moon to get him to sign.
This gives RichRod a few years to catch up on the recruiting front, and gets the natives (like the Redneck Rocker) restless.
Who, by the way, could use a guitar pick as a spare tooth: "everybody throws interceptions, everybody fumbles..."
Ah yes, the Columbus version of RR. But does everybody murder?
At the beginning of the season I had the Purdue game as a U of M victory, and that hasn't changed. But after they beat OSU it made me a little more nervous, especially because I could see their offense putting up some serious points on our defense.
that Purdue is coming to Ann Arbor. I anticipate a shoot-out; if M can limit turnovers M should win.
I'm concerned about our "sure-bet" win against Purdue now. They protected the QB well Saturday against a really good defensive front. And their young receivers are coming into their own. Will we be able to get to Elliot? If not, we could be in for another shoot-out. I can never bring myself to not cheer with glee over an OSU loss but this loss does raise some concern about how sure of a thing a win over Purdue will be.
OSU loss = good.
although, i do have to admit, i kind of wanted them to beat USC. i hate USC. dammit.
OSU's loss is a good thing. At the very least, we want their name to be outside of the national championship talk as much as possible for the purposes of recruiting.
Let's wait until we beat Pryor and the Buckeyes once before we smack talk and express our gratitude that he didn't come here. For the record, we could have really, really used him last year. We would have still been below average, but at least we would have avoided the complete disaster of 3-9.
1. RR will have no problem getting the team to take Purdue seriously.
2. The team now knows that OSU is beatable by a team with a lot less talent than theirs. That should help the confidence level in the Big Game and help make execution a little crisper.