War On Students Over: Students Win Comment Count

Brian

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For a brief period a few years ago, there was some weirdo in the student section who would head up to the concessions at halftime, drop fifty bucks on hot dogs, return to his seat, wave his arms about, and chuck foil-clad meat missiles at the most enthusiastic folks around him. He was a hero. A couple games into this era, the students started a rhythmic chant for him.

"HOT. DOG. GUY."

"HOT. DOG. GUY."

This was fun! It was ours.

Michigan kicked him out of three consecutive games, until he stopped. Or stopped coming.

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It's time for another internet-wide fret about the kids and how they don't like the live football anymore, this one spawned by a Darren Rovell article. (I know, I know. This article is good and does not expose you to Rovell's personality.) In said article, there's the usual platter of disturbing stats…

Arizona sold 10,376 student season tickets this year. But 47.6 percent of those students, for an average game, didn't even show up.

This year, the University of Michigan drew the most fans of any school for the 16th year in a row. But 26 percent of students who paid for their tickets didn't show up at an average home game this season. That's an increase from 25 percent last year and 21 percent in 2011.

…fretful quotes…

"We have to solve this because we are talking about the season ticket-holders of tomorrow," said Oklahoma athletic director Joe Castiglione. "But interests and attitudes are changing so rapidly it's not easy to quickly identify what we need to do."

…and the hope that having wifi will fix everything, which it won't. (But don't let that stop you.)

While this is a nationwide problem, Rovell's article touches on Michigan specifically in a couple spots. He talks to a reasonable-sounding Michigan senior:

"I've kind of accepted that I'm not getting reception in and around Michigan Stadium," [Adam] Stillman said. "The problem is in all the other areas. There's nothing to do while I'm waiting on line for an hour to get into the stadium, and there's little added value from being in the stands watching the game."

I was pro-general admission when it was announced, but if its goal was to get more students to the game on time, it is a failed policy. The slight increase in no-shows is worse than it looks—possibly much worse. 2012's home schedule had one attraction, Michigan State. The other games were against Air Force, UMass, Illinois, Northwestern, and a 4-8 Iowa. 2013 had a night game against Notre Dame, Nebraska, and Ohio State. The only games after the season took a turn for the grim in East Lansing were those Nebraska and OSU games. What is the no-show rate going to be next year? I'd be shocked if Michigan doesn't crack 30%.

Is there anything that can be done about this? I mean, you're just not going to reach the people I had to deal about ten years ago who would wander in during the second quarter smelling like an overturned truck of Jack Daniels. Those folks seem to be proliferating, and the only thing you can do is figure out ways to punish them and drive them away.

The university's attempts to rein in bad actors with first the validation program and then general admission have made it difficult to flip student tickets and then made them unattractive to non-students. Tickets remain cheap enough that a large chunk of the students don't care about wasting that money. The result is large pockets of empty seats.

It's time to end the war on crappy student fans

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Yes, some of these 18-year-olds are intolerable. But fighting them doesn't do anything for you. The main thing it does is make things worse for the 75% who do show up. Michigan has continually raised the bar on the students at the same time their interest level is dropping. The results are, in retrospect, predictable.

The alternative is to offer carrots instead of sticks. Michigan tried that with the "HAIL" program, which was a failure in year one, totally revamped in year two, and is probably two or three years away from being quietly assassinated in an alley. This is because it offers you a t-shirt; it was always an attempt to give the appearance of a carrot without spending any money.

The right move is to be good to your fans. Michigan has gotten continually worse. Blasting an ad—and yes, it is an ad—for renting out the stadium or exhorting people to follow you on twitter is unpleasant. Having to scream at the person next to you to be heard is the kind of thing that makes you walk out of a restaurant. Michigan does that at every available opportunity. Ever-increasing prices, hour-long waits to get into the stadium, ushers who kick you out for throwing marshmallows… all of these things are a drag on your future revenue base.

It's time to be less focused on the next quarter's budget and more focused on building an environment that will induct the next generation into your cult.

Instead, the athletic department is more concerned with policing behavior that they cannot change. The current generation of suits spent their days at Michigan buying tickets for their kegs and throwing toilet paper willy-nilly. These days, a weirdo who buys hot dogs at halftime and tosses them around the section gets kicked out.

Football is supposed to be fun, and it's not really that much fun these days. The athletic department took the initiative to stomp on every student tradition they found 1% threatening. Now the students have taken the initiative away from the athletic department by not caring anymore. They win.

I'm not sure trying to make Michigan athletics the most awesome place in the country to see a game is going to work, but it's clear that something has to change if this slide is going to be arrested. Being mean didn't work. Try being nice. Meaningfully.

Comments

814 East U

February 20th, 2014 at 1:05 PM ^

As a season ticket holder to both Michigan and the Lions, I have to admit I enjoy going to Lions games more. Prices are similar, but I get to see PROFESSIONALS and not the 3rd string slot WR walk-on from Akron. 

Michigan has the campus, the history, the tradition. However, they don't have the game experience like they claim. Sure, I love the band. I do not like 7 nation army 1000x though. 

I really hope something changes. I do not have the answers. IMO, the university is not doing much to appeal to younger fans (as myself). If it wasn't for the tailgating atmosphere and having fun with friends a few Saturdays every fall, I would have given the tickets up some time ago.

Callahan

February 20th, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^

To me, the gameday experience has gone from tradition-based to a homogenized, corporate one. I'm not sure there's much left that doesn't happen in any other college or pro stadium, other than the songs the band plays. Rather than let new traditions develop, they cram 7NA down your throat, because Penn State does it, or hype videos, because, well, everyone's doing it.

I'm somewhat surprised we haven't gone as far as playing movie scenes from Red Dawn ("WOLVERINES!"). Then we will have gone full Sparty.

Not to say that we need to wind the clock back to 1973 or anything, but stop trying so hard to make things seem cool. Perfect example: a few years back, they used to have some texting poll to see what the band played at the end of the third quarter. Turns out that virtually every time it was an option, the Blues Brothers song won and the students did the dance. A tradition was born organically. Contrast it with the Slippery Rock thing, which was brought back with a grand announcement and video telling us how cool our parents were for loving it, then the score gets announced several times per game (even if the game was last week). The AD will say it's a tradition, but if it went away again, no one would care.

 

gwkrlghl

February 20th, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^

I think Yost has just been murdered in recent years. Renovations took the students off the glass, they started chucking everyone out for the C-Ya chant (not sure if they still do), they started that damned goal horn, briefly tried piping in music (maybe they still do), brightened it up in there (which makes it feel totally different), got rid of the old wooden bleachers, etc etc.

Dave Brandon and the AD think that just because things are shiny that they are better. This is a corporate attitude and one that doesn't understand how organic college sports atmospheres are. In some cases it helps a ton: Crisler Center because Crisler sucked before and had no atmosphere. But when you had a good thing going like at Yost or the Big House (I loved hot dog guy. RIP.) you don't have to bling it out to make it better. It was better. They should've left Yost alone and they should let the Big House be organic again

Bando Calrissian

February 20th, 2014 at 2:52 PM ^

The one thing that really gets me about the Yost renovations is the fact that those concourses are going to look really dated sooner than later. The shiny yellow glass shit is completely out of character with the rest of the building, and the whole thing feels even more cramped than the old concourses used to be. Don't get me wrong, I like some elements of the renovation, but for the most part, I'm with you. It doesn't fit the building.

HermosaBlue

February 20th, 2014 at 4:13 PM ^

and so do many of my generation (Class of 1995) and older generations.

But I do not want to hear it 6x per game.  It's a late 3rd quarter thing.  Not unlike the 7th inning stretch "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" rendition.

Agree that 7NA and the cornucopia of musical dreck that Special K trots out on the regular can die in a fire.  Play something else.  Preferably by the band.  If not by the band, let's go local (yes, I know White Stripes originated in Detroit, but still...you can't play something else from them...Hardest Button to Button, perhaps) or at least choose something with some unique meaning for UM.  That does not include Build Me Up, Buttercup or Sweet Caroline, especially during a stoppage of play late in the 4th quarter in a 3 point game. 

zroze

February 20th, 2014 at 5:09 PM ^

I wonder if anyone else feels this way.  I'm class of 2009, so was there to remember before the piped in music but still attend games now...

I don't hate 7 Nation Army.  It gets students pumped up, and one thing that's been lost in this conversation is that it probably gets the PLAYERS pumped up, and that's important.  However... I think Special K plays it WAY WAY WAY too much, and not in appropriate situations.  For example...

Appropriate situation: M just went ahead by 3 points against ND, 5 minutes left, about kickoff or start a defensive series.

Inappropriate situation: M is up by 35 against Ball State and is about to start the 3rd quarter.

Appropriate situation: M is down by 7 with 5 minutes left and just made a big play on 2nd down to force 3rd and long against MSU.  MSU calls a timeout.

Inappropriate situation: M is hopelessly down by 25 against MSU and just scored their first points in the 3rd quarter and is about to kickoff.

Just curious about people's thoughts...

lou apo

February 20th, 2014 at 9:29 PM ^

Is it wrong that I had no idea what the heck 7na was?  Thanks for spelling it out so I could google it.  Got it, bummmmmmm bum bum bum bummmmm . . . bum.  OK, that is 7na.  So, I think that this is the most generic, trite, contrived, and pathetic thing to play at any point during a football game.  Hats off to the first guy who thought it was a great motivator song because at that time it was, until everyone else ruined it by playing it until our brains metled into a bummm bum bum bum mess.  It really would be cool if it were actually our thing, but it is not.

When I was a student ('91), we went from bringing in cases of beer openly to damn near getting kicked out of UM for a little booze on the breath.  The student section was full and we had fun.  

It isn't rocket science.

 Have fun at game = go to game.

Not having fun = not going to game

People not going game = not having fun at game 

7na = not that much fun

beer and throwing marshmellows = more fun than 7na and sober non-throwing marshmellows.

 

rob f

February 21st, 2014 at 12:46 AM ^

You NAILED it! 

And so did Brian (THANKS, Brian!) !

And so did  many MGoBoard posters to this thread and the similar thread on 2/17 http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/rovell-ncaa-footballs-student-attendence-problem by SoFlaWolverine 

The agony of it all is that, even if Brandon does read this front pager column from Brian and the comments that follow (same for SoFlaWolverin's thread), I don't think he has it in him to "listen" and take any of this to heart. 

There are so very many great things that made the experience at Michigan Stadium and Yost uniquely fantastic; very few were of the manufactured "bright and shiney" nature of what is forced upon the masses now.  Why can't the administration understand this?  Does Brandon surround himself with a  bunch of "yes-men" who only tell him what he wants to hear, that all the gawdyness is somehow fun and a Michigan thing when in reality, it has become neither!?

snarling wolverine

February 20th, 2014 at 5:32 PM ^

Prices are similar, but I get to see PROFESSIONALS and not the 3rd string slot WR walk-on from Akron.
I have the opposite view. I don't like paying a lot for M football tickets, but I know the money is going to support our various athletic programs. I look at it as making a donation to support them. In pro sports, the money just lines the owner's pockets. I agree that Michigan - like college teams in general - seems to be moving too close to the pro-sports experience in terms of game day atmosphere, though.

MgoRacecar

February 21st, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^

I'm a junior in Electrical engineering and therefore have a stupid amount fo work to do on a day to day basis. If I do have the time to spare to go to a football game, I'm not going to wait in line 3 hours to make sure I can get decent seats. Gamedays are the only time I spare to actually enjoy life and that includes pregraming for X hours before the game starts, doing stupid stuff, getting hammered with my friends before stumbling to the stadium for game time. 

While the seats were assigned, I didn't have any trouble showing up to the game 15 minutes before and getting INTO the stadium because people would feed into their assigned section and sit wherever they wanted. If you got there early enough there was an unspoken rule that you could sit closer to the field even if you didn't have the seats but a group of seniors could kick you out if they so choose (which wasn't all that common). During the ND game this year I got to the stadium almost 2 hours early because I knew it was going to be an absolute abortion in terms of organization and I remember almost getting trampled for a half hour in the section line before I could get to my seat. Then there were the ropes... yeah that did a helluva lot of good. The mob I was in just stepped over them and marched to whatever seat they wanted to to the cadence of "Fuck Dave Brandon."

I didn't show up to a game after that until Nebraska because I'm not going to go through that dog and pony show to play against shitty teams, I have too many more important things I have to do, and so do many of the students I know. The general consensus among me and my friends after the season was we weren't going to buy season tickets for our senior year because the schedule sucked and we're not paying 300+ (we're poor ass students remember) for season tickets where we don't even get the front row seats we were promised when we were freshman. I might actually buy some tickets this year to support the hire of nussmeir but at the moment I plan on watching the games on TV while i try to survive VLSI. 

The Athletic Department has soured a lot of fans recently and IMO it's not just because the team has been bad. The tickets are stupid overpriced for STUDENTS. MSU pays 100 less for the season than we do and they won the rosebowl. Everyone in the stands is dehyrdrated because we've been drinking all day so charging us 6 bucks for a bottle of water is absurd. We're students who already paid tuition to go there, cut us a break please, we're not all the sons and daughters of Stephen Ross. The music coming through the loudspeakers is fun but god damn it gets repetitive and every other school across the country play it. Don't they have pandora? Making the tickets GA has pissed off a lot of upperclassmen because we were promised that evrery year our tickets would get better and if anything GA seating has made attendance worse because a lot of kids just don't want to bother going.

So here's what I propose to fix it. Winning helps, but you can have an 8-5 team and still have a loyal fanbase if the games are fun.

1: Institute tiered seating based on class, Seniors and Grad students get closest to the field, then juniors, then sophomores, and freshman at the top. If you paid into the system for 4 years then you deserve better seats. Within each tier it's general admission. They should also remove validation for student tickets if you have a student ID from ANY school. Part of the fun of gamedays is bringing your friends from other schools to hang out so having them pay a validation sucks and we all just share Mcards anyway

2: There should be a "whack pack" section. Yes I stole the term from howard stern. People can dress up in wild outfits like the whackey inflatable tube people last year and get put into a section right by the field, maybe even next to the band. Before each game people who dress up can line up in this secondary line, show they have student tickets, then get ushered down to the section with all the other freaks. It will add a genuine and unique element of fun to the games and let students get creative.

3: And this is a wild one, let us pregame in the stadium. I'll let them figure it out so people aren't dyng but if we could buy beer or a keg in the stadium, whatever the cost, people would show up early without question. Not only that but it would make the student section one hell of a good time and you'll have a fanbase that will be hooked for life.

rob f

February 22nd, 2014 at 3:31 AM ^

I appreciate what you wrote, MGoRacecar---good first-hand perspective and suggestions, even though we all know the beer/keg one will never happen, no matter who is Athletic Director .  We old guys (and even the not-so-old guys) need to hear what it's really like to be herded around in Brandon's convoluted "system" of seating the students, instead of just pissing and moaning about the empty seats in that corner.    

jmblue

February 20th, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^

Agree with almost all of this, although I think the loud RAWK offends alumni far more than it does students.  The students seem to eagerly sing along with most of the piped-in music (even the songs that predate their birth, which seems really strange to me).  

I wouldn't mind Michigan Stadium going back to just having the marching band generate the music, but it's not going to happen.  Younger generations have grown up with this at other sporting events and expect it now. (The team, too - Rich Rodriguez was a proponent of using piped-in music when he was here, and I would guess Hoke is fine with it as well.)

TIMMMAAY

February 20th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

Was around a decade ago, and was to keep college football as college football, not NFL Light. I don't know what the fix is at this point, you can't just roll everything back and expect things to be as they once were. This makes me sad. 

On this type of thing I'm 100% with Brian. We never should have started with the RAWK crap, but we had a new sound system that required being played at maximum volume. Ad's are on the way, unless DB decides to hang it up (please Tiny Jesus, I hate that man). 

jmblue

February 20th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^

I agree that college football would be better without all the imported stuff from pro sports, but I don't think that is related to why student attendance is down.  I don't get the sense that students are turned off by "Seven Nation Army" and the like.

This is a nationwide trend and also is affecting college basketball, even at blueblood schools.  Maybe we've reached the point where TV coverage has gotten too good and makes the casual fan less motivated to attend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

mGrowOld

February 20th, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^

Amen. And if we're going to have GA how about an actual GA that let's the poor damn students sit where they want and not where they're told.
I used to get pissed and post pics of the empty seats in the student section. Not any more-as an alum I feel bad for them now that I know just how much things have changed since I was there and none of it for the better.

French West Indian

February 20th, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^

A true general admission would be best.  Any game and any venue that I've ever visited, the most fun has always been the cheap seats.  The fans need to feel a communal sense of ownership of the space and that only happens when the rules are relaxed.

The suits will probably cite "terrorism" concerns but the only time ushers/security should be in the cheap seats is to break up fights.  Beach balls, marshmallows, coolers etc. shouldn't be outlawed.

BlueinLansing

February 20th, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^

"I've kind of accepted that I'm not getting reception in and around Michigan Stadium," [Adam] Stillman said. "The problem is in all the other areas. There's nothing to do while I'm waiting on line for an hour to get into the stadium, and there's little added value from being in the stands watching the game."

 

Makes me want to punch every fan under the age of 30.

tdcarl

February 20th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^

An hour is no exaggeration. Before Notre Dame we waited outisde our section in the stadium for over 45 minutes without moving. This doesn't even count the time we waited outside the stadium. We got to the stadium an hour and a half early and almost missed kickoff. Student GA is an absolute joke .

93Grad

February 20th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^

and an unitended consequence of the new GA policy which for some reason is not true GA, but administered GA with Stadium staff having to assign seats to people as they arive which is pretty idiotic.  Can't say I blame people for not wanting to wait an hour in line for some stupid policy to be administered.

Big Brown Jug

February 20th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^

Instead of watching for free in sweet high definition from your couch, the stadium experience features:

  • Paying for admission
  • Insane concession prices
  • Security checks
  • Not drinking in the stadium (openly at least)
  • A single sightline, probably at least 50 yards away
  • Not being able to use your phone 
  • The opportunity to be wet, cold, or both
  • Communal bathrooms
  • Waiting in lines for any or all of the above

And more recently, a mediocre home team usually playing a doormat.  

I'd turn it around and ask what is compelling about going to the game?  

His Dudeness

February 20th, 2014 at 2:38 PM ^

Truth.

It used to be better to go when your tv looked like a fuzzy nintendo game, but now it's much better to stay home as bad as that sounds. Especially for folks like me who have to come in from around the country. I mean... this will be the first year since I was a student (not that long ago really) that I most likely wont be in Ann Arbor on at least one Saturday this fall. Why? I could give two fucks about seeing Utah or UMASS or whatever. It's a shame.

[email protected]

February 20th, 2014 at 4:22 PM ^

I remember attending a Lions game in '91 with my Dad. They had the security there, and TV's scrolling a long list of $hit that would get you thrown out of the game. This usher, about my Dad's age, comes up and said something to my dad (I think he had his cigs out). My dad looked at the usher, looked at the TV, and said 'Wow! You have alot of rules for a team that hasn't won since '57!'

 

I think there is some of that here. 

 

When I was there we had marshamallows (who can forget trying to pelt the camera guy), some great tailgates, and very easy access. I remember free water at most games in the early fall, to ease the hangovers. I remember concessions that weren't great, but weren't ridiculously over priced either. 


But what I really remember is a hell of an off season most times. Oklahoma, IIRC one year. Houston when they were hot with the Run & Shoot. Florida State (Ow). Colorado. Yes, we had Rice and EMU, but not for the whole non conference gig. 

Nowadays the team would likely lose a tough non conference schedule, but I don't think that would hurt so much. It would at least send a message 'We are going to keep trying to play with the big boys. We are prepping our young talent." And even if a team isn't good you can still build a fanbase. IIRC when Canham was building things UM wasn't always perfect on the field. Similarly some bad teams have very loyal fans. I was stunned at how crazy KC Chief  fans were when I went there, no matter that the team wasn't all that good at the time. 

 

Relax the rules. Plant a Hot Dog Guy if you have to to act as a spark. It wouldn't cost the U much. Bring Wifi to the stadium, or a cell repeater. Have students tweet pics for display on the jumbotron. Let a student group pick the bumper music each game, and have them compete for the right. Maybe set up some grills inside the fence for a student tailgate area if they can get there soon enough. 

 

Basically, make enough room in the rules that the students can make it a fun event. For the rest of the fans make it like football Disney. Make them the focus and make them feel welcome.

 

Oh. And MORE NIGHT GAMES. This isn't 1955!!

 

 

[email protected]

February 20th, 2014 at 4:25 PM ^

One more thing: I wonder how the TV environment might affect some future fans. 

I live up north and get to few games. Now, I listen to the games on the radio because I can't afford to go, especially with the family. I can't watch the games on TV because I don't have the B1G network. I was going to use ESPNgo for one game, but Charter was going to hit me with a $30 charge to watch the game. 

Because of this I think that my 5 year old and 8 year old have maybe seen 8 or 9 Michigan games over the years on TV. 

 

When I was a kid, Saturday had the B1G games on all over. I loved sitting down in college and watching all sorts of good football. Now more and more of it is relegated to exclusive networks. I'm not going to budget for the B1G Network because my budget is tight. So my kids are going to get exposed to alot less B1G football than I did. It might have an effect. 

Chick Evans

February 20th, 2014 at 1:24 PM ^

Why? He is basically saying that the University has stripped everything away from games that made them fun and unique. If i want obnoxiously loud piped in music and advertisements at every stoppage of play, I can get that in the comfort of my own home by turning on the tv and cranking up the surround sound. 

The only difference is that I saved hundreds of dollars on parking, tickets, and absurdly overpriced food, and hours of time spent waiting in lines. 

The one thing I would miss out on by not going to the games now is the halftime show. And since they decided to turn that into an advertisement as well, i'm ok with missing it. 

Bando Calrissian

February 20th, 2014 at 1:32 PM ^

It means less to me than enjoying myself while watching a football game, and it's getting harder and harder to do that in the current situation at Michigan Stadium.

My section has gotten increasingly combative with single-game ticket buyers who don't care about being a total asshole to people around them they will never see again (not to mention the opposing-team fans), RAWK, spending $8 to stay hydrated for the entire game, endless TV timeouts, ticket prices, the Athletic Department holding our decades-long tailgating spot in limbo from year to year, an increasingly professional/corporate environment where I feel less a part of my alma mater than an ATM machine for Athletics...

Each year, the family TV looks more and more attractive.

93Grad

February 20th, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^

go to about half the games I for which I have tickets because of many of the reasons you site above.  Also add in the fact that I live in Chicago to the time/money investment and it becomes harder and harder to keep making that investment for more than a few weekends per year.

Of course, I'm sure this will cause some posters to yell (rabble rabble) that I am not a true Michigan fan, which is ludicrous.  Everyone has to make game attendance decisions according to their own internal calculus, but I fear that more and more people are going to chose to stay home. 

bronxblue

February 20th, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^

To be fair, the perceived "homefield advantage" against some crap directional team isn't really relevant.  The issue isn't getting people up for rival or a big-time OOC opponent; it is convincing students to come to mediocre contests when they can be at home.  And given all of the headaches associated with watching UM barely beat Akron in person, I don't see the value in that.

los barcos

February 20th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^

Or are close enough to travel easily to games?

I only ask because I used to have the same sentiments that you are expressing when I lived on the east coast:  "What's wrong for you people complaining about going to Michigan Stadium.  I WISH I could be there for a game..."

Then I moved back to Ann Arbor - close enough where I can conceivably go to every game I want - and I get what they were bitching about.  

To me, the RAWK music and ads don't really turn me off; it's the money and lack of compelling games.  But for one or two games a year (MSU, OSU, ND, Nebraska), I don't really feel the need to spend hundreds of bucks to watch Michigan clobber some MAC cupcake or (hopefully) win easily against Rutgers.  Not when I can still expereince the tailgate atmosphere and watch the game on my couch with some nice beers and good chicken wings