How You Gonna Keep 'Em Down On The Farm Once They've Seen SEC Hungus? Comment Count

Brian

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Big Ten recruiting, 2013.

You may be aware that the Big Ten has not been too good at football of late. You are probably also aware that Ohio State and Michigan are locked in a titanic struggle for the sexiest recruiting class, one featuring players like Jabrill Peppers, Vonn Bell, Derrick Green, and Jalin Marshall. The opposing sides in The Game had top five recruiting classes last year according to the 247 composite rankings, with OSU second and Michigan fifth. So far this year Michigan is first and Ohio State ninth.

Meanwhile, the rest of the league is flailing. The next Big Ten team on the list was #22 Nebraska; #30 Penn State—NCAA-crippled Penn State—followed. That concludes our list of Big Ten teams with better-than average recruiting classes amongst the 60 or so BCS teams.

Here is a team that finished higher than all but the mentioned Big Ten teams.

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Kentucky. A team that stopped releasing attendance numbers. Mississippi State, Vandy, Baylor, and Virginia beat all these teams plus Penn State out. It was not so good out there last year.

Surely that's a flu…

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Kentucky has six OH commits. Non-MI/OSU B10 combined: 7.

…mother of God. Everyone on that list has a Big Ten offer from a school that has been something other than a depressing blight on the idea of sport during the last ten years. (Ok, it depends on how you classify Illinois. They went to a Rose Bowl, but also: Illinois.) What's more, Tennessee has gotten in on the raiding, snatching three kids out of the Midwest.

What follows is a brief survey of the Big Ten's footprint recruiting areas. Prepare for carnage. Before we start, I should mention that despite being under extraordinarily punitive NCAA sanctions, Penn State has four-star recruits from Delaware and North Carolina and is currently holding on to a top 20 spot in the rankings. They'll slide back down to where they were last year before things are said and done because they will have a tiny class, but Penn State is retaining its recruiting cachet as well as—probably better than—they could have hoped. Once they're out from under the yoke they should quickly excise themselves from Little X talk.

Nebraska, too, consistently recruits at a level above most of the rest of the league even if they're off to a poor start this year. This is more about the conference's traditional middle class.

OHIO

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DeShone Kizer's top three is Alabama, LSU, and Tennessee. He has an offer from only the latter.

Ohio State is going for half of the 16 consensus four-stars, with six already in the boat and the probable acquisition of the two main Glenville kids this year. Michigan has one, Michael Ferns. Northwestern has one, Dariean Watkins. The four other guys are probably headed to Alabama or OSU (Derek Kief), ND or Kentucky (Darius West), Louisville (Daniel Cage), and somewhere in the SEC (DeShone Kizer).

Yes. There is one four-star in Ohio who will head to a Big Ten program not named Michigan or Ohio State.

It gets worse. One of the next nine guys (QB Chris Durkin, MSU) is committed to a Big Ten school. Three are headed to Kentucky or Tennessee. None of the other five have publicly stated a leader but Kentucky and Louisville are involved with three and two more are up in the air.

It is likely that only two or three of the top 25 guys in Ohio end up in the rest of the league.

TOP 25, APPROX. NUMBER OF RECRUITS HEADING TO VARIOUS PLACES:

  • OSU/M: 10
  • L12: 3
  • GTFO: 12

ILLINOIS

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top 100 linebacker Nyles Morgan favors… Vanderbilt

Illinois is going to be chaos and depression for the middle class of the Big Ten. The top ten kids are either headed to the Big Two (Bunting, Westphal, and Jamarco Jones), committed to another conference (Watson, Helm, Wilbon), or headed that direction (Clifton Garrett, Nyles Morgan, and Dewayne Hendrix are all headed south). Northwestern is the only L12 team to pick off a four-star kid from Illinois.

It's a little less grim as you head down to 25. Northwestern and MSU have five of those guys, OSU has one, and it looks like a few more will end up in the league. The top is just a disaster, though.

TOP 25:

  • OSU/M: 3
  • L12: 10, 1 of them in the top ten
  • GTFO: 12

MICHIGAN

Three of the four consensus four stars are off the board to M/OSU with Malik McDowell strongly expected to join the club. Michigan also has #10 Moe Ways. The Big Ten held on to most of the other guys in State except Chance Stewart, who bizarrely decommitted from Wisconsin and chose WMU shortly thereafter.
  • M/OSU: 5
  • L12: 4
  • GTFO: 1

Michigan remains loyal, if a little talent-sparse.

INDIANA

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Dominique Booth's top four: Tennessee, FSU, Vandy, Alabama.

The top player in the state has no Big Ten teams in his top four; OSU is the only one on the list of #2. ND and OSU have 3 and 5 committed, respectively. Louisville and Kentucky are heavily involved with #4. The next five guys are still fuzzy, with Purdue favored for a couple, if only because they seem interested while others are not.

TOP TEN:

  • OSU/M: 2
  • L12: 2
  • GTFO: 6

PENNSYLVANIA

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if Dravon Henry stays in the B10 it will be at OSU or PSU

Pennsylvania has always been more up for grabs because anyone from the Eastern part of the state doesn't think of the Big Ten as local, so it's less of a surprise when things have a more national feel. Even so, only Penn State has made any headway in PA. They have 3 of the top 20. Michigan has one, and then Temple, BC, WVU and FSU also have one. The rest of the Big Ten? Zero. 247 projects that number will stay at zero, with Pitt, OSU, and Michigan cleaning up.

TOP 20:

  • OSU/M: 4
  • L12: 8, almost all of them to Penn State
  • GTFO: 8

WISCONSIN AND SMALL STATES

The top five players in Wisconsin are committed to the Badgers. Good job, Wisconsin. Here are some cheese curds for you.

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Iowa is doing similarly well in Iowa, with three of the six guys 247 rates committed, and a fourth probably on the way.

Nebraska has a commit from one of the two guys they've offered in-state and should get the second.

Minnesota has a soft verbal from the top kid in the state and may lose the second; everyone else is not the kind of recruit that would make Minnesota anything other than Minnesota.

THE NEW FOOTPRINT

Big Ten schools not named Michigan and Rutgers have zero of the top 20 in NJ. Penn State has the #5 kid in Maryland, and that's the only B10 commit in that State. Maryland is supposed to get a couple, and PSU may get a couple more.

WELL THEN

This is where I mention that recruiting is not destiny. Wisconsin has never been particularly good at it in the eyes of the gurus but has turned themselves into a major program by keeping everyone they have for five years—Bielema just had a class of 13 guys, because Wisconsin only had room for 13 guys—and hewing to a system that works for the kind of players they can access. It remains to be seen whether they can keep that going without a hand-picked transition like Alvarez-to-Bielema. Similarly, Michigan State's classes have been almost devoid of attrition and they have locked into a stable defensive style that has produced.

Recruiting is kind of destiny, though: Wisconsin has reached the last three Rose Bowls. It has lost all of them. Witness any Big Ten program against Alabama. Football is random and rankings are not perfect, but if you're at the bottom any success you have is pushing uphill.

The slope of that hill is about to become alarming. It bodes unwell for the Big Ten's middle class that the gap between themselves and the heavyweights is growing, especially when it comes not only from the two at the top improving on historically good classes but from the meat-and-potatoes kids they've relied on for so long opting to leave the conference. Every kid in Ohio who opts for Kentucky or Tennessee or Louisville is virtually irreplaceable for programs whose recruiting reach outside the Midwest is limited to scrabbling for guys without Vandy offers.

Northwestern is the exception. With their committed niche offense and recent success they'll be a thorn in the side of anyone whose defense can't handle the spread. If they can just get their defense to middling, it's on in the West.

Comments

Jivas

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:07 PM ^

This is a really depressing development.  It's bad enough that there's a shift in population from north to south that's continuing to drain talent from the Big Ten footprint; now they're up in our base stealing our dudes.

At this pace, the bottom 10 teams in the Big Ten are headed towards MAC territory.

unWavering

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:21 PM ^

How valid is this population shift claim?  I realize that the population is growing in the south faster than in the midwest, but it's not like the population is shrinking in the midwest either.  There are a finite number of spots available on D1 football rosters, and the population in the midwest has been enough to fill that.

On the other side of the same coin, the number of spots on SEC rosters isn't growing, so more good recruits coming from the south will lead to an overflow to other areas.

gwkrlghl

June 3rd, 2013 at 9:29 PM ^

The bottom line is that location tends to still govern what region a recruit ends up in (a lot of the time). No matter how much Michigan tries, they're not going to get a BCS caliber class if they try to only recruit Arkansas, Alabama, LSU, and Mississippi. Kids tend to stay localish

I think with a) crappy B1G schools not being able to keep midwest talent local and b) population shifting south. You'll start seeing schools that should be inferior to B1G schools consistently out-recruit the B1G. We're not far from the days when a Houston or Central Florida or similar team will end up with a class that would be top 5-6 in the Big Ten.

Bodogblog

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^

Not really unhappy about this.

Michigan and Ohio will bring in Top 5 type classes; PSU and Nebraska top 15.  I really do believe NW will consistently bring in Top 25.  Then Wiscy and Iowa doing what they do. 

If the rest are falling below Kentucky/Vandy on the food chain, I don't really care that much.

sundaybluedysunday

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:50 PM ^

The problem is that if you're not beating good teams, public perception of your skill level becomes subject to debate. To this day we don't ultimately know how good some of Boise State's teams were because they were never given the opportunity to prove whether or not they were national championship caliber teams. Due to a greater national presence of college football, the Big Ten name is only going to carry you so far, and if you're not beating a good handful of very good to elite teams, you're not going to get the same post-season opportunities as others.

Bodogblog

June 3rd, 2013 at 5:42 PM ^

I understand your point, but to your example - we're far from Boise St levels of competition.

And frankly we've been getting our asses handed to us as a conference in bowl games for 30 years.  What's clear to me - assuming Michigan and Ohio can win their share of bowl games and OOC - is that a 12-1 Michigan or Ohio team that won a B1G championship is going to the NC over an 11-1 SEC team.  What if there's a 12-1 PAC12 team looking to be that second team?  It's going to matter who that team is, and who each of the teams played OOC more than in conference.  If Michigan beats Oregon State, BYU, Ohio and the B1G championship in 2015, while still losing a road game of some sort, we'll have a very strong case to be the second team in the playoff; which would mean we're in the 4-team.  Going beyond that (i.e. if you're ranked 3-6), it's all a crap shoot anyway.

M-Dog

June 4th, 2013 at 11:24 AM ^

"a 12-1 Michigan or Ohio team that won a B1G championship is going to the NC over an 11-1 SEC team"

Unfortunately, I think it is just the opposite.  Case in point:  Last year.  If Ohio State was eligible I think they would have still been shut out of the NC.  

There was no way that the media was going to leave their darling Notre Dame behind, and you could certainly make the case that Alabama has proven itself thru its body of work over the last several years.  Now you look at Ohio State and their "weak" Big Ten schedule and the fact that they blew it the last two times they played for the NC, and a lot of people are going to easily pick 1-loss Alabama.

We will still have this issue when we go to a 4 team playoff.  The Big Ten is very vulnerable when they are in a toss up between Notre Dame or a second SEC school for the last spot.

Like the old joke goes, I don't have to run faster than the bear, I just have to run faster than you.  We don't have to be percieved as the top conference, but we have to be consistently percieved above two of these four:  The Pac 12, Big 12, ACC, Notre Dame.

Having the middle of the Big Ten step up and win some bowl games and key OOC games will do this.

 

 

 

 

yoyo

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:11 PM ^

I don't mind as long as UM and OSU (and Nebraska, PSU, NW once in a while) beat the top echelon teams in other conferences.  That beating Alabama gave us stung quite a bit.

NFG

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:21 PM ^

What a depressing column. The fact that the Ohio pipeline is opening up to the SEC East and Indiana's top recruits aren't thinking of Purdue or Illinois is a sign of what happens if your conference can't compete on a national level over time. We need Joe Tiller and Glen Mason back in the conference to revitalize some depressed programs.

FreddieMercuryHayes

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:23 PM ^

Could part of this be that more B1G teams are trying to get talent from outside the B1G footprint?  There's always been a debate about the value of southern talent vs northern, with some believing that southern talent is just better (I suppose the lower laditudes provide more direct exposure of the Athleticism Rays from the sun).  I remember hearing this from State fans after Hoke came to town and they got largely shut out from their targets in the region.  So instead of going for the B list of Big Ten land, they went for the B/C list of Georgia and other places.  I also think that a slight confounder is that the UK staff has very good ties to Ohio at the moment, so it's not surprising they're pulling a lot from Ohio right now.

E. Gordon Gee

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:50 PM ^

I also think that a slight confounder is that the UK staff has very good ties to Ohio at the moment, so it's not surprising they're pulling a lot from Ohio right now.

 

So much this. With Mark Stoops connections to Ohio and Butch Jones previous tenure at Cincinnati, I see no reason why this trend of Kentucky and Tennessee taking Ohio talent will attenuate. It won't be as crippling to OSU or Michigan because I don't believe they will take the cream of the top talent regularly but when they're snagging in the three stars that would do well at other Big Ten schools (i.e. Chris Borland) its only going to present  future problems for teams. 

M-Dog

June 4th, 2013 at 11:36 AM ^

Kentucky is a classic case of the bottom feeders in the SEC leeching on the success of the top of the SEC.  Kentucky?

This is a new phenomenon.  i'm old enough to rememeber when there was no way that KY would be considered a viable alterantive to teams like illinois or iowa.  Hell, not even a viable alternative to ACC teams like Virginia or NC State.

We have all become more "conference-aware" in CFB.  Just like it helps dreadful programs like Miss State to be from the SEC, it is starting to hurt decent programs like iowa to be from the Big Ten.  Even in their own back yard.

You are starting to hear more and more recruits make statements like "I want to play in the SEC" without even mentioning a school.  You never used to hear anything like this.

 

stbowie

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:24 PM ^

If Michigan (and OSU) can clean up in the midwest and nationally, does it matter that the rest of the conference doesn't recruit well? Seems to me that would mean regular high win seasons for UM/OSU, high rankings for those two, and decent performance in bowls against other conferences for those two. The only downsides I see are recruits wanting to play in a conference where they see more top competition leading to poorer recruiting classes for UM long term and perhaps a worse strength of schedule leaving a 1 loss team out of the playoffs. Thoughts?

Blarvey

June 4th, 2013 at 9:02 AM ^

I would much rather have UM do well in a good B1G than win 11 or 12 games with competition largely made up largely from 3rd and 4th tier guys. In 1997, we played 5 games against top-25 B1G teams, and at least four the next few years. The last two years, we played only 2 top-25 B1G teams (when we played them). I don't want to play shitty teams just so we have a cakewalk into the playoffs or a cozy bowl. I want to play good competition and beat them because we are a better team. Beating 4-4 Penn State means little compared to beating top 10 8-0 Penn State, especially if the latter goes on to win a big bowl game vs. the SEC or whoever.

M-Wolverine

June 4th, 2013 at 4:21 PM ^

People said we didn't win by enough points and voted Nebraska #1 in one of te polls, even though they didn't play anybody. Florida State has made a career of that. If you haven't lost no one cares about your schedule.

Jacoby

June 5th, 2013 at 12:38 AM ^

I agree with this. Nobody wants to watch us play EMU or Rutgers. I want all BIG teams to be strong and to play tough schedules. I hate when fans call for crappy schedules so that the team can inflate the rankings and sneak into a high bowl just to get murdered.

M-Dog

June 4th, 2013 at 12:12 PM ^

We don't need the Big Ten to be phenomenal, but we need to to be good enough so that we are not locked out of the 4 team NC playoff.

It is also just as important that the Big Ten is percieved well enough so that we are not automatically seeded 4th in the NC playoff.  

Our reputation is very poor right now.  If the first couple of times we make the NC playoff but are seeded 4th and come up short against the top seed, everybody will say "See, I told you so, they don't belong in the playoff.  Bring in a second SEC team or one of the other conference teams."

We desperately need some wins in the NC playoff, even if not the championship.  We get shutout a couple of times in a row and we will be the first man out from there on out.

 

bluebyyou

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:25 PM ^

Brian, your conclusions are not surprising based on recruiting outcomes on national signing day over the last few years.  The SEC, as a conference, has better coaching, better facilities, better recruiting and better results.  With revenue sharing, where is the pressure on the lower half of the B1G to get the coaches and build new facilities?

Delaney, say what you will about him, has positioned the B1G well financially, but at some point, if we only have a handfull of solid teams,even with us and Ohio having great talent, the revenue streams we have enjoyed as a conference over the last few years may start shrinking. People lose interest in lousy teams.

jmdblue

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:26 PM ^

about teams not handling the spread I think is especially pertinent.... IMO the only way to stop a well run spread is with fast big guys across the defense who can disrupt plays before the option fun gets going.  The big corners and the fast, intuitive linebackers we're recruiting will do this for us.  As for the main thrust of the article.... poor sparty.

Yeoman

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:58 PM ^

Westerville and Youngstown are a bit surprising, but I don't see anything odd about kids from Butler or Clermont County Cincinnati suburbs going to Kentucky. Lexington's no farther than Columbus and some of those areas are more South than Midwest--they don't call it Hamiltucky for nothing.

Ed.: Forgot about Stoops. Youngstown isn't surprising either.

snarling wolverine

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:55 PM ^

Recruiting is kind of destiny, though: Wisconsin has reached the last three Rose Bowls. It has lost all of them.

To be fair, you should note that Wisconsin lost those three games by two, seven and six points, respectively - and their staff's game management was questionable in those games, to say the least.  I don't think talent was necessarily the issue in those games.

 

M-Dog

June 4th, 2013 at 11:51 AM ^

I think talent was a little bit of an issue on defense.  In all those games, their offense gave them leads late in the game they just could not hold.  Then it was do or die for the offense on the last drive where one mistake does you in.  And they were done in.

If they had even slightly better talent on defense, they would have won all three.

 

sundaybluedysunday

June 3rd, 2013 at 4:58 PM ^

What's the most disappointing about this, in my opinion, is the way that these Southern programs have been able to manipulate perception better than the Big Ten teams. Butch Jones and Mark Stoops both took over absolutely terrible teams and they've both done a better job selling, "We may be terrible right now, but we're about to turn this ship around, and you can come play in the shiny, wonderful, best-conference SEC if you come here" than Michigan State or Nebraska has been able to parlay fairly recent Big Ten successes into results on the recruiting trail. Which means that it's gotten to the point where terrible SEC is better than good to middling Big Ten. That's really, really bad.

reshp1

June 3rd, 2013 at 5:00 PM ^

I'm kinda thinking a BIG with two perenial elite progroams in Michigan and Ohio, plus one or two of Wisconsin, Nebraska, Penn State and Lil Bro that rises to competitive for any given year, and a bunch of scrub teams to round out the conference would be just about perfect for Michigan. As long as the top of the conference do well in out of conference games and bowls, I don't think having a weak rest of the conference will be that detrimental, and will be made up by better win-loss records at the end of the season.

TrppWlbrnID

June 3rd, 2013 at 5:03 PM ^

i recently heard a story relating to that chart at the top, which if you don't know, attempts to graphically illustrate the size and location of Napoleon's army invading Russia in grey and then the size and location in subsequent retreat in black. you can see that there are a lot less troops on the way home.

my assumption had always been that these french guys were all dead and never returned, but an article i read was saying that due to the Russian's employing scorched earth, fleeing east as Napoleon attacked, many French soldiers just decided to stay in Russia, there was plenty of open land and the prospects for eeking a life out were just as good as a peasant there than back home.

While a ton of dudes did die, particularly at some tragic bridge collapses along the way, it is not entirely about dead people.

snarling wolverine

June 3rd, 2013 at 5:21 PM ^

There is truth to that.  The summer of 1812 happened to be unusually warm, which made the long march particularly grueling.  There were huge numbers of deserters that summer, more actually than in the infamous winter that followed.  Note that only half of Napoleon's army in that campaign was actually French; the rest were drawn from the various countries he'd conquered, and it's perhaps not surprising that they didn't stay loyal to him over the seemingly endless march.

 

 

m1jjb00

June 3rd, 2013 at 5:16 PM ^

Midwest guys have committed a lot earlier than other areas.  The far West stands out as nobody in the top 15 out there have committed.

elm

June 3rd, 2013 at 5:29 PM ^

Was going to say something similar.  For Southern Ohio kids, Kentucky and Louisville are closer than any other B10 school outside of OSU and, for some of them, even closer than OSU.  Going to Kentucky is going to the local school as much as going to Cincinnati would be.  Remember, Cincinnati's airport is located in Kentucky.

Similarly, southern Illinois kids going to Missouri isn't really abandoning the footprint, either, at least not moreso than an Iowa kid going to Iowa State or a PA kid going to Pitt.