recruiting is for gentlemen only
erik swenson
decommits

On Erik Swenson And Talent-Based Decommits Comment Count

Brian

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Michigan's longest-standing commit is no longer one:

While that's a surprise it's less of a surprise since this week people started putting their name next to the assertion that he would not end up in the class. Mike Spath said so in a post on attrition; Wiltfong did the same at 247; Webb concurred. With Northwestern and Nebraska possible landing spots, academics are obviously not a problem.

Swenson committed to Brady Hoke's Michigan sometime during the Truman administration and hasn't wavered or visited elsewhere; like Rashad Weaver and Kiante Enis this appears to be a case where Michigan re-evaluated the players' talent after their senior season and did not like what they saw. Let's talk about how we feel about that, with the caveat that we are working with incomplete information here since neither side is offering much detail on what went down.

Editorial opinion on decommitting guys based on talent

Michigan's suffered a number of decommits this cycle. Some were not Michigan's choice, others are because of academic concerns, and a few look like Michigan straight-up pulling offers from committed recruits because they prefer other players. To date players in the latter category appear to be Enis, Weaver, and Swenson.

This could be anywhere from completely legit (Harbaugh tells them they may have to find another landing spot if things don't work out) to not great (this is not communicated). There's a post on the board from a gentleman claiming to be two degrees of separation from a recruit who consciously uncoupled from Michigan, and it was more or less the former:

He said the coaches meticulously laid out who his competition would be, and explained to him that they weren't done recruiting the position yet.  Harbaugh also told him that his scholarship to one of the best academic institutes was absolutely still available to him, but he would need to work his ass off to see any playing time.  Said recruit has decided that while academics are important, playing football is his true passion and wants to see the field sooner than later.  He would rather fine tune his game on the field and get better.

Despite the parting of ways the recruit seemed fine with the overall result, as he got a ton more interest after "Michigan commit" was appended to his resume.

Enis and Weaver were probably given a heads-up a couple months ago. Enis made an official to Indiana in December; Weaver scheduled an official to Temple in November. In any case they are likely to find schools that are a better fit for them and have fine college careers.

This doesn't really bother me. These days "commit" is used about as accurately as "literally" and Harbaugh has adapted to that situation. If you want to visit, visit. Michigan is going to recruit as if commits don't exist, just like everyone else does. It can be infuriating for players, coaches, and fans as order and structure break down but that's life. I've never really railed about that practice; it's shipping guys out mid-career without a degree, against their will, that rankles. I don't think Michigan will be doing that and certainly hope they never do.

However, Swenson's situation is considerably more sketch. He has not made a peep since his commitment and was tweeting about signing with Michigan as late as January 3rd. Webb says "don't be surprised if a little mudslinging happens." Swenson took the high road, but if someone pops off after a LOI is safely faxed I won't be surprised, nor will I have much to say other than "seems accurate."

If Michigan was going to pull Swenson's scholarship it should have at least warned him about the possibility during the season so he could make a backup plan. That doesn't look like the case and it appears Michigan has pissed some people off. Not a good look.

If he wants to play and does land with the Wildcats or Huskers, he's probably better off. Michigan looked at senior film and decided he would not play.

I wouldn't want to go to a school that thought I wouldn't play and wouldn't tell me that; I would expect them to tell me that. By November at the latest.

This isn't so much a rug being pulled out from under someone as an order for a rug being canceled. Michigan does have to get more organized with this stuff going forward. Setting someone adrift approximately three weeks before Signing Day—the news took a week or two to get out—isn't enough time for them to find the best landing spot.

Comments

Yeoman

January 20th, 2016 at 9:00 PM ^

So you're comparing Swenson to an alcoholic or an addict? He's fundamentally incapable of making decisions regarding his own well-being?

If you can't make that distinction, I don't know what to say. And you've been here for years and I know you can't make that distinction. So I really don't know what to say.

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westwardwolverine

January 20th, 2016 at 10:07 PM ^

No, I'm proving your idiotic assertion wrong and that making a decision in someone's best interest isn't cowardly as you put it. Clearly you know this and you're grasping at straws, but when someone proposes arguments that are so fundamentally stupid as you like to do, I'm not sure what else to expect. 

And considering a big part of the reason that people are allegedly so down on this is because Swenson is just 17/18 and at 17/18 people don't always make the the best decisions, yeah he probably CANT make the best decision regarding his well-being on his own and furthermore it isn't just his decision to make. How often have you heard the phrase "he/she is just a kid" applied to college-age people older than Swenson? Yeah, numerous times. On this very blog I bet. And how often has that been because of dumb decisions those people have made? We could go on and on, but you're clearly out of your element here. 

There's nothing you can say because you are wrong. You are clearly so stupid that you can't actually put together the necessary brainpower to realize that going to a staff that wants you is a good thing and better for you than going to a staff that doesn't think you can play. And because your brain can't piece this together, while other people can easily do so, it pisses you off. The only way that your slow, slow mind can think of this is "Swenson want play Michigan. Harbaugh say no. This wrong. Me sad and need cry. Also, diaper change". 

Or, because I don't think you are actually that dumb, you are just concern trolling. Take your pick. 

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Reader71

January 20th, 2016 at 9:17 PM ^

I agree that if the staff doesn't want him, he is better off elsewhere. I do not agree that this is an appropriate time to tell the player he isn't wanted. Even if we think the kid is lying, and the staff cooled on him earlier, say in November when they brought him in to watch the Ohio game, I do not agree with ignoring him and "suggestions" instead of being a powerful, millionaire, adult and saying, "We do not want you." Sure, there would be some backlash, but at least the adult wouldn't be acting like a coward. I do not agree that the staff was undecided on Swenson's development all the way up until the end of his senior season much less into January. They should have made this decision a few weeks into the season, after checking out his game film. I think they kept him on, despite any developmental concerns, and would have kept him if they didn't win 10 games and attract better options. Which is fine, just not this late in the game, and not this cowardly.

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westwardwolverine

January 20th, 2016 at 10:22 PM ^

I agree that this is not the ideal time to tell someone. However, it does not sound like he was actually told a couple days ago that this was the case. It sounds like it was pretty strongly indicated (at the very least) for a while now. 

People are acting like Swenson's life is somehow ruined. In reality, it appears he has plenty of options that will be better for him in the long run (despite Yeoman's pathetic yowling) because they actually believe in his ability while this staff doesn't. Everyone will end up better off. 

Unless you have inside information that I don't (which I concede is very possible), this does not seem like that big of a deal outside of the timing, which - while unfortunate - is still better than having him commit while thinking he can't actually compete. 

I'd prefer Michigan to act quicker with these things for the sake of the player, but at the same time, I think the level of self-righteousness and hand-wringing has been over the top. 

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Blue Durham

January 20th, 2016 at 10:48 PM ^

But why was it "pretty strongly indicated" for a while now? Why wasn't it spelled out? Who are the adults (plural), and who is the kid? Like Reader71 states, which party has all of the resources, and which one doesn't? And which party was it that changed the situation, changed their mind? So which party has the responsibility here?

There is a reason why it wasn't made clear, why it wasn't spelled out. Most likely it was to avoid bad PR (hoping that the kid would get the hint and just go away and disappear) or to keep a committed (!) kid as a fall-back option until no longer necessary.

Is Swenson's life over - hell no and I do hope he lands at a great place. 

But I have seen people get angry over a restaurant not honoring a coupon because of change in management.

I have seen people get pissed that a $100 gift certificate, that did not have an expiration date, not be honored because it was 1 day past 1 year from when it was purchased.

I have seen teens get really angry that the date they thought they had to the prom found a better option and let them know only a week prior.

Examples can go on and on.  None of these things ever happen to you?  And didn't get angry?  This stuff has happened to everyone, and yeah, the natural example is to get angry.  But hell, since this involves the football team that you like to root for, the kid should shake it off?

But the above examples are small potatoes compared to 4 years/college education etc. and the length of time of Swenson's commitment.  Particularly when the staff re-affirmed (with letter!) back in August/September.  With the success of the season, the staff's recruiting prospects improved, and Swenson ended up a casualty. 

He'll live. 

But the integrity of the instituion that Bo worked so hard to instill, and that Harbaugh is a product of, took a hit here.

That is the problem a lot of people have here. 

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Yeoman

January 20th, 2016 at 11:02 PM ^

A lot of players choose to join programs where they know, up front, they're unlikely ever to see meaningful action. We wouldn't have walkons if this wasn't true. Some of them have turned down scholarship offers elsewhere; they certainly all had the possibility of playing elsewhere, even if it's at a much lower level (I seriously doubt there's a FBS walkon anywhere that couldn't get playing time at a D3 program).

I don't know what Swenson and his family are thinking, or what their priorities really are; neither does anyone else here. But I don't know how we can be sure that playing elsewhere really is better for him than that 2% chance of proving the coaches wrong at Michigan.

Or, more fundamentally, why that's anyone's call but his and his family's. I'm really tired of folks making declarations about what's good for people they've never met and don't know jackshit about. The arrogance of it is incredible to me. (I'm not calling you out with this by the way--your statement felt hedged to me even if it technically wasn't and you've got the benefit of having been through the process yourself.)

Harbaugh and Drevno can pull Hoke's offer if they want, that's their right. Swenson doesn't have the right to decide where he goes--that part has to be negotiated. But he does have the right to decide where he wants to go. I think it would be nice if he got to do that without anonymous message board posters piling on and telling him he's wrong, but I'm probably in the minority there.

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Blue Durham

January 20th, 2016 at 11:36 PM ^

Harbaugh and Drevno did not "pull" Hoke's offer, they affirmed it with an official offer by letter this past August, as Brian affirms in this very thread below: http://mgoblog.com/content/erik-swenson-and-talent-based-decommits?page… So everything that you have written, regarding what Swenson and his parents were thinking, about Swenson's prospects of playing, would entail them having to do a complete 180 degree about face in their understanding of Michigan's intentions over the course of just a couple of months. Perhaps you might reconsider what you wrote.

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Yeoman

January 21st, 2016 at 1:23 AM ^

I should have said they could pull their own offer.

I do think the fact that the offer was originally made by the prior staff changes things a bit, and I've said elsewhere that I wouldn't have had a problem with the new staff retracting offers they hadn't themselves made as long as they did so promptly. That's probably why I let the "Hoke" slip in.

But I'm not sure how any of that impacts the rest of what I wrote. They did have to do a complete 180 in their understanding of Michigan's intentions over the past couple of months. Two different but related 180s, one regarding their opinions on the likelihood that he would ever play, and a second regarding what was being offered in the negotiation.

We don't know what he would have decided if it had only been the first, if the offer was still there but it was made clear he was no longer part of the staff's o-line plans; all I was doing was trying to point out the possibility that even in that situation, he might still want to come to Michigan.

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westwardwolverine

January 21st, 2016 at 8:05 AM ^

Sure, if we lived in a world where you could just make a decision and it would happen and there were no other factors involved, this would make total sense. I could snark this all day with dumb examples, but its not even worth it. 

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Goldmember2

January 20th, 2016 at 1:18 PM ^

I'd say in a situation where the kid still has reasonable time to  sort his options the answer is yes. He knew enough about how things were going to get relationships built with other Big 10 schools to land on his feet.  Does it matter that it was a month before signing day when he found out?  I will say if it was my son I'd want to know far enough in advance that we can make an informed choice anbout what to do next.  The cut off is arbitrary and really about personal comfort levels.  I hope Michigna never falls to the point that kids are trying to fax LOI's and have been told they can committ only to find out at the 11th hour things have changed.  

As Michigan finds its way back into NC contention and continues to close on the top level recurits we're going to see a lot more stories like this and some of the other decommits.  Personally I don't like it.  It draws negative attention to the program and not every kid will have the options Swenson has.  At the same time this is the game and these are the rules that govern that game.  I just hope Michigan maintains the personal standards of the program and doesn't get completely swept up in "crootin"

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Blue Durham

January 20th, 2016 at 1:30 PM ^

I guess in some ways, though, but I really have a question with point 1. If Swenson was OK until his senior year, and still good enough to be posted as the #2 football player in Illinois after the season, and be an All-American, really, how much better are the prospects Harbaugh is pursuing? Marginally? Would doing something like this really be worth it in that case? Was there lack of development, or was there a step back (and thus something more serious)? For something completely different to consider, if there is just a marginal difference in Swenson and the prospects Harbaugh is pursuing, if Harbaugh is really HARBAUGH!, why didn't Harbaugh just bring Swenson in and just HARBAUGH him?

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Erik_in_Dayton

January 20th, 2016 at 12:44 PM ^

And yes, yes, softening of America - in the old days we used to cut each other's fingers off for fun - my dad stormed the beaches of Berlin - the universe is indifferent and people can be cruel, so we should expect nothing of anyone.  But this is bad.

Class response by Swenson, though.

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somewittyname

January 20th, 2016 at 12:45 PM ^

Weaver and Enis situations don't really bother me and are not the same as Swenson. People keep using the argument that, well if the staff is being up front about things, then at least the kids know where they stand. It's still unfortunate for Weaver and Enis to get their hopes up, but a Michigan offer does help their publicity and they've had time to make other plans.

It sure sounds like we just flat out screwed Swenson over. Hopefully there is some information that we don't know to justify it other than "disappointing senior season."

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worldeatjimmy

January 20th, 2016 at 12:45 PM ^

I'm not saying I like this (because I don't), but already people are comparing us to schools with a pattern of this behavior (LSU and Bama, namely).  This is the first of its kind as far as I know for JH at UM. And I'm curious if the people who are gonna flip out about this think it is any different than a school revoking admission to students (non-athletes) who let their grades dip senior year? 

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drz1111

January 20th, 2016 at 1:04 PM ^

Schools DONT revoke admission for normal students who drifty down from a 3.8 to a 3.65.  You have to flaming trainwreck as a senior to have your admission pulled; like, virtually flunking out of school.

 

If that's what happened here - then sure.  If Swenson went from being a 4-star to a guy that sat on the bench doing nothing; if he put on 50lbs of bad weight; if he was visiting other schools; more generally, if there's some sort of egregious story here that changed the equation, then I have no problem with this.

 

But by all accounts, that's not what happened.  Swenson is still Swenson, it's just that our staff took a shine to someone else.  You don't pull the offer on someone because they merely hit their 40th percentile projection as a senior, rather than the 75th percentile.  When you extended the offer, you took the risk he might only be meh. It shouldn't be a one-way option.

 

That's the part that's rubbing folks the wrong way.

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SpikeFan2016

January 20th, 2016 at 1:12 PM ^

It doesn't have to be that severe to get pulled (well, maybe at schools like MSU and Central, but not all schools). 

 

At top 25 undegraduate institutions you can go from an A student to a B or B- student and still have your offer, but if you get all Cs your second semester you're likely to have your admission rescinded. 

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petered0518

January 20th, 2016 at 2:29 PM ^

I was accepted to UofM my junior year and due to life circumstances had pretty bad grades my senior year. I want to say somewhere in the C to B- range. 

I got a notice from UofM that they were considering pulling my acceptance pending an explanation for the grade drop.

I ended up getting in because I had an obvious reason for why my grades suffered, but this is a long way of agreeing with you that UofM does indeed pull acceptance at the last freaking minute (this was like a month before I was set to go to school or something like that) for merely bad performance in your senior year (not flunking).

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Bronco Joe

January 20th, 2016 at 1:26 PM ^

"It shouldn't be a one-way option."

That's the point - it's NOT a one way option. The kids have all the power before LOI day, and can flip at will. If the team lost a couple games or a bowl game or a coach goes elsewhere, they can flip. If they get an offer from a better school, they can flip. Same goes for the school - they get a better kid then they are justified in going for them.

Anyone who believes otherwise is living in a fairy tale... Now, post-signing, there's a contract, and you live up to the contract one way or another.



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Everyone Murders

January 20th, 2016 at 12:52 PM ^

Brian correctly notes that the timing is not good here.  I'll go a bit further - if this news was just recently conveyed to Swenson, that's a really bad look for our program.

Golden Rule and all that ... .

I'm an advocate of not sparing a prospect's feelings, since I think the athlete and his family are better-served with more information.  They may not want to hear it, of course.  But in retrospect, they will likely appreciate forthrightness.  But to pull the offer with less than a month left is a bit shady.  (Note, though, that Michigan may have been telling him he's on the bubble for some time now, giving Swenson the "you can't fire me because I quit" option.  Some kids will take strong hints, and some need to be told no.  But still, my opinion is you need to pull the proverbial Band-Aid off quickly when it's clear a kid's future is not with your program.) 

For all of that, I'm glad to see that Swenson seems to have good options available to him.  I hope he goes to Northwestern, plays great, and performs well against our DL.  And I also hope that Michigan still beats the snot out of Northwestern, because obvs.

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fukkyt

January 20th, 2016 at 12:46 PM ^

Don't like this one one it. Pulling a scholarship offer so close to signing day! Makes me appreciate John Beilein even more. JB may not bring a national championship trophy but he goes about winning in a right way.



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BlueReign

January 20th, 2016 at 1:44 PM ^

Harbaugh has demonstrated time and time again that he is willing to push the rules to their absolute limits. Satelite camps, sleepovers, "intent to decieve" plays. Could have been handeled better,no question, but i dont think you can clasify his hyper competitiveness as being shady. Let alone the comment about Beilein.

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WestQuad

January 20th, 2016 at 12:48 PM ^

It's just weird that it's a 4* lineman in the top [250] players.  (#322 on 247).   It seems doubtful that this kid doesn't have the ability to play.  Has to be more to this story.

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Brian

January 20th, 2016 at 1:08 PM ^

I dunno, watch him pull and pass set on that film... I  think he's a guy who got rated high early and hasn't been dropped sufficiently most places. (247 has him 3* #55 OT.) That Michigan decided to drop him without any particularly likely big-time recruits on the hook at a spot they need to fill tells you all you need to know.

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JFW

January 20th, 2016 at 3:05 PM ^

Just trying to reason it out.

 

Guard X is good. 

Guard is a position of need

We don't have someone else on the hook for that position. 

We do have multiple 3 stars and 2 stars at other positions that may be less of a need. 

 

Given all of the above, then if cuts are strictly talent based to make room for better talent, it makes more sense to cut loose the 2 star DE; or one of the 3 stars, than cut loose the guard. 

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drz1111

January 20th, 2016 at 12:49 PM ^

Cutting someone loose in November is one thing, but this isn't right.  Especially since, if the kid can get an offer from NW, it's not like he was a flaming trainwreck of an offer. 

 

And of course the kid is "classy" about it.  He has to, in order to show good intangibles for the other schools who might scoop him up.

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chitownmaizeblue06

January 20th, 2016 at 12:49 PM ^

Swenson was a Hoke commit. In some ways Swenson is a transitional casualty. While the kid acted like he publicly loved Michigan, he never even came to campus for an official visit.

I agree the timing seems rather late in the recruiting process with signing day fast approaching. However, many other quality schools will offer this kid a scholarship.

 

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Blue Durham

January 20th, 2016 at 1:04 PM ^

and when they told him not to come for an official, they were already having second thoughts. They should have cut him lose then, but didn't because they wanted to keep their options open. Which means that their fall-back option was a commit, not someone waiting on a commit-able offer. And that sucks.

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Blue Durham

January 20th, 2016 at 6:00 PM ^

Swenson supposedly was going to take officials during a number (4 I think) of games during the season, and he posted as such. But he never did. So, did the staff keep delaying him, essentially kicking the can down the road? It sure doesn't seem like the behavior of someone who wants to take an official, say sometime in September or October, and the staff says "no, we don't want you to take an official, ever" but more like "not this week, maybe later in the season." Again, why be so subtle, why not just come out and tell the kid? They didn't until earlier this month, that much is clear. And sorry, I am surprised and am in strong disagreement with you - it was up to the adults, the ones who changed their minds, to make sure that there was no misunderstanding. They shouldn't have to resort to the hope that Swenson would eventually understand their "clues." And they didn't tell him directly because that makes the staff look bad, and they are hoping, essentially the kid gets the hint and just goes away. Thus removing a PR problem, of them rescinding an offer accepted in good faith by Swenson, for the staff. Obviously all of this assumes that grades, SAT or ACT, legal, etc. are not the problem.

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