"Fire this coach!": A Michigan Basketball tradition
Michigan Daily
February 21, 1973-
According to Michigan Athletic Director Don Canham those South End Crisler Arena vocalists who have filled the air with shouts of "Orr must go" and variations on that theme, have done so in vain. Canham indicated to the Daily that Coach John Orr, much maligned for his cage squad's off again-on again performance will be on the bench leading the Wolverines next season.
"Orr will be back next season," Canham intoned. "I could not envision the season without him back."
***
In the past few weeks Orr has been under a good deal of criticism. His squad was expected by many to capture the Big Ten crown. However, the Wolverines have faltered at points during the Big Ten season and presently hold a 6-4 record.
During the defeat filled weeks many students and fans expressed more than mild displeasure with Orr's performance as coach.
The remainder of Johnny Orr's career-
Season | Record | B1G | Place | Postseason |
1973-74 | 22-5 | 12-2 | T-1st | NCAA Elite Eight |
1974-75 | 19-8 | 12-6 | 2nd | NCAA Round of 32 |
1975-76 | 25-7 | 14-4 | 2nd | NCAA National Runner-Up |
1976-77 | 26-4 | 16-2 | 1st | NCAA Sweet Sixteen |
1977-78 | 16-11 | 11-7 | T-4th | |
1978-79 | 15-12 | 8-12 | 6th | |
1979-80 | 17-13 | 8-10 | T-6th | NIT Quarterfinals |
Michigan Daily
January 27, 1989-
Fans fired up to see Frieder flee
Crisler Arena crowds have been telling Bill Frieder to throw his trademark towel in some other town.
These fans, who proudly carry "Fire Frieder" and "We hate Bobby Knight, but at least he can coach" signs, have expanded their vocal chords recently, booing Frieder at every occasion. Monday, the crowd jeered Frieder louder than archnemesis Bob Knight.
Some campus-area apartments now have "Fire Frieder" signs hanging in the windows.
People were losing their minds over a coach having these results recently-
Season | Record | B1G | Place | Postseason |
1984-85 | 26-4 | 16-2 | 1st | NCAA Round of 32 |
1985-86 | 28-5 | 14-4 | 1st | NCAA Round of 32 |
1986-87 | 20-12 | 10-8 | 5th | NCAA Round of 32 |
1987-88 | 26-8 | 13-5 | 2nd | NCAA Sweet Sixteen |
100-29 record the previous 4 years.
I know I wasn't around back then, and sure, the NCAA flameouts stand out. But fans back then didn't have to wait THAT much longer for a few long runs...
When people wanted Orr and Frieder gone, neither of them had any long run in the NCAA Tournament.
John Beilein already has a Final Four and two Elite Eights. And some people want him gone two years after them when the entire starting five on that Final Four team is playing in the NBA.
This is a case of two things.
1) People having the same expectations the Football program has and placing them on the shoulders of the Basketball program.
The Basketball program has a good history.
The Football program is arguably the top program in the sport all-time.
2) Know who you are. What good coach would want to come here if we fired one of the most respected men in the game 2-3 years after runs to the Elite Eight and Final Four? There were a lot of people flapping their gums in that 500+ comment threads, and none of them had realistic replacement suggestions.
This isn't Duke, Kansas or Kentucky.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:59 PM ^
As much as I hate to do this (well, not really), I'm just gonna go ahead and self plug my diary which went up last night.
http://mgoblog.com/diaries/historical-modern-comparison-john-beilein
February 8th, 2016 at 3:04 PM ^
First and foremost, I remember the last time this blog was calling for JB to be fired. We were terrible in 08, surprised in 09 and went to the dance even winning a game. Most of that 09 team returned and the 2010 team finished sub .500, no dance no NIT. In 2011, we had a decent non-conf slate, but similar to this team, didn't beat anyone of note and then B1G play started and we started 1-6, culminating in a "not as close" as the score, home loss against Minnesota, in which we got a total of 12 rebounds for the entire game, as a team. We went to East Lansing, next and everyone remembers the rest of that story.
I do think JB made some miscalculations on recruiting, most notably that he knew Burke and Hardaway would leave after the 2013 season before it even started. After the 2013 season, he knew he probably would only have GR3 and McGary for 1 more season as well. I am sure he didn't plan on Stauskas blowing up or Horford transferring after 2014, but that happens. Not taking 2 bigs in the 13 class has really backfired. He knew that McGary was at most a 2-3 year player, so putting all the eggs in Mark Donnal, when he knew that Bielfeldt would never be a B1G starter seemed silly, and it is hurting this team. Donnal is never going to be a B1G starter for a contender. He is backup quality on a good team.
The 2014 class not having one capable player after 2 years is also hurting this team. Recruiting is half the battle in college basketball, maybe more.
The defense is an issue, and similar to the adjustments and adaptations that JB made in 2011, I think he needs to rethink some philosophies and bring in some assistants that can mold and specialize that end of the floor.
JB is a great in game coach and a slightly below average recruiter. Things turn around in basketball in a hurry, as noted above. I do think the situation is less dire than most, in that the entire team that is out there now will be back next year plus 1-2 impact players, with IMO the most talented recruit still to come (Jordan Poole - and if you don't believe me go watch his tape and then look at his measurables). I think we could be set up for big things in the next few years, but there need to be some tweaks to the philosophy and roster management, ala changing to a ball screen oriented offense in 2011.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:28 PM ^
Hate to blame the kids but this is purely an execution / talent issue, not a Bellein scheme / coaching ability issue. After putting in the painful work of watching the past few games, you can see extreme repetition in the plays called. This is likely the result of Bellein seeing what we're all seeing: (i) very poor perimeter passing, (ii) very poor understanding of spacing / off-ball movement concepts and (iii) sluggish, imprecise movement generally. I think Bellein knows that the kids are struggling with his [incredible] offsense and is pulling back the reins until they demonstrate a bit of understanding of the multiple options and counters his offense incorporates. Hard to argue that defense and maybe recruiting are lackluster recently, but running too many poor defenders out on the floor might be too much for any scheme to overcome.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:27 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 3:46 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 4:32 PM ^
It's like a team of 3 point shooting robots.
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February 8th, 2016 at 6:03 PM ^
Too bad they're not robotic in making the threes.
February 8th, 2016 at 4:55 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 5:11 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 5:23 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 5:49 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 6:05 PM ^
You also explained what happened with your other example (Langford) already.
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February 8th, 2016 at 6:12 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 7:38 PM ^
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February 9th, 2016 at 12:34 AM ^
I personally think the so called "bag man" is a bunch of BS. The only time I have ever seen it referenced is on this blog when Michigan loses out on a recruit. I fully acknowledge that schools cheat, but according to people here, every single school cheats. That's laughable. If this truly was the case, at some point one of thse schools would be caught. It's simple statistics.
Also, insinuating that Cal is a dirty program is beyond ridculous. Cal-Berkeley, as in the most prestigious public school in the country. It's one thing when you accuse LSU or Alabama of cheating. It's another thing when you accuse a school with superior academics to Michigan of beating a cheater. I would make the case that of the two, Michigan would be the more likely to bend the rules. There is far more pressure to win at Michigan. Cal has minimal interest in football and basketball.
The reality of the situation is that recruiting is a soft skill. Either you have it or you don't. You referenced Cuonzo Martin. He was a smooth operator on the court at Purdue. He was a smooth operator at Tennessee as a coach and he's a smooth operator at Cal. Beilein on the other hand, is not smooth. We all like him. We find the stories about him having subs and calling it crazy funny. They are funny. But do you think a 17-18 year old kid gets the same impression? My guess is that Beilein comes across as very grandfatherly, which isn't a bad thing. It's just not very relatable to top shelf recruits.
February 8th, 2016 at 6:26 PM ^
Yeah, I'm sure Cal is all about the college basketball bag men...good god. When will these excuses end?
February 8th, 2016 at 7:36 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 8:43 PM ^
You're talking about CAL. FREAKING CAL! One regular season conference title since 1960 Cal. If they're dirty they're doing a terrible job at it.
I don't get this ''fine by me if we're not dirty'' thinking. So you'd rather be middle of the road in the big ten forever than actually win anything...got it.
February 8th, 2016 at 9:00 PM ^
You're making my point for me. Cal hired Cuonzo Martin and suddenly they're landing two top 10 recruits? Even though they have no real history and neither recruit was from the area. I think it's reasonable to assume Cuonzo is dirty.
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February 9th, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^
Are they on the court, or going to be on the court?
There's a difference between being "in it" for recruits, and actually landing them.
February 8th, 2016 at 5:27 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 5:42 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 6:49 PM ^
Ryan didn't win by landing prize recruits--as often as not, the competition on their offer sheets didn't get much better than NW and Northern Illinois. He won by finding players who could thrive in the system and culture he'd established.
Which is what you're criticizing Beilein for trying to do.
February 9th, 2016 at 12:04 PM ^
Which is what you're criticizing Beilein for trying to do.
Which is what I'm largely criticizing Beilein for failing to do.
February 8th, 2016 at 5:05 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 5:09 PM ^
Maybe it's me but I hate that people just want us to settle for being mediocre in basketball. We have everything it takes to compete at a high level in the sport. Brand new practice facilities, great academic institution and a refurbished arena. I for one am not asking to be Duke, Kentucky or Kansas. However is it too much to ask if we can be Oklahoma, Maryland or Wisconsin?
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February 8th, 2016 at 5:15 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 5:35 PM ^
Both of those coaches were criticized because they didn't win anything. Michigan high school basketball is very good. We're the flagship university. We have more money than just about every other school in the country. The notion that you can't be good at football and basketball is weird. We were going to Rose Bowls and had the Fab Five at the same time. The world did not end. The worst party about the Webber scandal is that it has made people assume that we just can't be great at basketball. When Beilein retires, Michigan has the ability to pay for a top-notch coach, and we should expect them to.
I don't think there are many people calling for Beilein to be fired tomorrow. It's completely legit to worry about his recruiting. He went to a Final Four and an Elite 8 based on one class and Trey Burke not getting offered by OSU and becoming Michigan Basketball's version of Connor Cook: an elite player at a pivotal position. It's difficult to see good state of Michigan big men going elsewhere because Beilein won't adjust. Hopefully having a season in which he already had 5 losses by 13 or more makes him realize he needs to make changes.
February 8th, 2016 at 5:43 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 6:07 PM ^
Sounds like a guy saying "we're mediocre and we should be OK with that."
Beilein is a good coach, but a shit recruiter. Just shit. Probably did less with a NC Championship appearance toward garnering future recruits than any Michigan coach ever.
Michigan has a proud basketball history, leads the series with MSU, yet we are to be cool with losing because we're not supposed to be Duke...
This isn't about the last one or two games either. It's definitely a trajectory thing. Beilein at some point should understand the value of rebounding and actually get himself some athletes down in the paint as opposed to good guys like Doyle who are less coordinated than my imaginary little sister.
Beilein shouldn't be fired, but he should revisit his recruiting model and look for changes.
February 8th, 2016 at 6:25 PM ^
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February 9th, 2016 at 12:07 PM ^
To me, mediocre is 9-9 in the B1G every year making the tourney one every three years.
If you're regularly ranked somewhere betwee #25-#100 in RPI, that the definition of mediocrity.
February 8th, 2016 at 6:59 PM ^
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:43 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 9:54 PM ^
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February 9th, 2016 at 12:35 AM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 6:17 PM ^
I dont see a groundswell of fire Beilein chatter. Hes got at least two more classes before I get to that point. But there is alot to be critical about (recruiting, bigs, defense, lack of athleticism) and if he doesnt hit with this class or the next one he is probably treading on thin ice. Mediocrity is unacceptable in any of our programs and if one reaches such a point change is necessary.
February 8th, 2016 at 6:38 PM ^
All chiseled up last summer and he comes into season fat and out of shape again ! Wilson absolutely sucks and won't shoot the damn ball when open ! If
Irvin bolts we are screwed
February 8th, 2016 at 6:57 PM ^
Seriously doubt Irvin is going anywhere.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:08 PM ^
at home .. twice ... (I thought winning on the road was tough in the BIG 14) and your team seems lost ... We shall see if there is a spark to finish the season. Facts rule.
February 8th, 2016 at 8:02 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 8:25 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 8:33 PM ^
That is my question because if you looked at them two years ago you would have thought they would have gone pro by now...
Just thinking out loud
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February 8th, 2016 at 9:12 PM ^
Putin for next BB coach!
February 8th, 2016 at 9:15 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 9:15 PM ^
Since January 27, 2011 (The Aneurysm of Leadership), Michigan Basketball has the second most wins in the Conference with 63 and a winning percentage of 0.67 (third best behind Maryland and Wisconsin).
February 8th, 2016 at 11:41 PM ^
The problem is that Beilein's long-term success means nothing to the people with short-term mind-set syndrome.
The larger issue here is that there's a vocal subset of the Michigan fan base who've never liked Beilein and his style of play. They come out of the woodwork whenever there's the slightest blip on his record of success.
February 8th, 2016 at 9:23 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 9:53 PM ^