"Fire this coach!": A Michigan Basketball tradition

Submitted by Wolverine Devotee on

Michigan Daily
February 21, 1973-

According to Michigan Athletic Director Don Canham those South End Crisler Arena vocalists who have filled the air with shouts of "Orr must go" and variations on that theme, have done so in vain. Canham indicated to the Daily that Coach John Orr, much maligned for his cage squad's off again-on again performance will be on the bench leading the Wolverines next season.

"Orr will be back next season," Canham intoned. "I could not envision the season without him back."

***

In the past few weeks Orr has been under a good deal of criticism. His squad was expected by many to capture the Big Ten crown. However, the Wolverines have faltered at points during the Big Ten season and presently hold a 6-4 record.

During the defeat filled weeks many students and fans expressed more than mild displeasure with Orr's performance as coach. 

The remainder of Johnny Orr's career-

Season Record B1G Place Postseason
1973-74 22-5 12-2 T-1st NCAA Elite Eight
1974-75 19-8 12-6 2nd NCAA Round of 32
1975-76 25-7 14-4 2nd NCAA National Runner-Up
1976-77 26-4 16-2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1977-78 16-11 11-7 T-4th  
1978-79 15-12 8-12 6th  
1979-80 17-13 8-10 T-6th NIT Quarterfinals

 

Michigan Daily
January 27, 1989-

Fans fired up to see Frieder flee

Crisler Arena crowds have been telling Bill Frieder to throw his trademark towel in some other town.

These fans, who proudly carry "Fire Frieder" and "We hate Bobby Knight, but at least he can coach" signs, have expanded their vocal chords recently, booing Frieder at every occasion. Monday, the crowd jeered Frieder louder than archnemesis Bob Knight.

Some campus-area apartments now have "Fire Frieder" signs hanging in the windows.

 

People were losing their minds over a coach having these results recently-

Season Record B1G Place Postseason
1984-85 26-4 16-2 1st NCAA Round of 32
1985-86 28-5 14-4 1st NCAA Round of 32
1986-87 20-12 10-8 5th NCAA Round of 32
1987-88 26-8 13-5 2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen

100-29 record the previous 4 years.

I know I wasn't around back then, and sure, the NCAA flameouts stand out. But fans back then didn't have to wait THAT much longer for a few long runs...

When people wanted Orr and Frieder gone, neither of them had any long run in the NCAA Tournament.

John Beilein already has a Final Four and two Elite Eights. And some people want him gone two years after them when the entire starting five on that Final Four team is playing in the NBA.

This is a case of two things.

1) People having the same expectations the Football program has and placing them on the shoulders of the Basketball program.

The Basketball program has a good history. 
The Football program is arguably the top program in the sport all-time.

2) Know who you are. What good coach would want to come here if we fired one of the most respected men in the game 2-3 years after runs to the Elite Eight and Final Four? There were a lot of people flapping their gums in that 500+ comment threads, and none of them had realistic replacement suggestions. 

This isn't Duke, Kansas or Kentucky. 

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A2MIKE

February 8th, 2016 at 3:04 PM ^

First and foremost, I remember the last time this blog was calling for JB to be fired.  We were terrible in 08, surprised in 09 and went to the dance even winning a game.  Most of that 09 team returned and the 2010 team finished sub .500, no dance no NIT.  In 2011, we had a decent non-conf slate, but similar to this team, didn't beat anyone of note and then B1G play started and we started 1-6, culminating in a "not as close" as the score, home loss against Minnesota, in which we got a total of 12 rebounds for the entire game, as a team.  We went to East Lansing, next and everyone remembers the rest of that story.

I do think JB made some miscalculations on recruiting, most notably that he knew Burke and Hardaway would leave after the 2013 season before it even started.  After the 2013 season, he knew he probably would only have GR3 and McGary for 1 more season as well.  I am sure he didn't plan on Stauskas blowing up or Horford transferring after 2014, but that happens. Not taking 2 bigs in the 13 class has really backfired.  He knew that McGary was at most a 2-3 year player, so putting all the eggs in Mark Donnal, when he knew that Bielfeldt would never be a B1G starter seemed silly, and it is hurting this team.  Donnal is never going to be a B1G starter for a contender.  He is backup quality on a good team.

The 2014 class not having one capable player after 2 years is also hurting this team.  Recruiting is half the battle in college basketball, maybe more.

The defense is an issue, and similar to the adjustments and adaptations that JB made in 2011, I think he needs to rethink some philosophies and bring in some assistants that can mold and specialize that end of the floor.

JB is a great in game coach and a slightly below average recruiter.  Things turn around in basketball in a hurry, as noted above.  I do think the situation is less dire than most, in that the entire team that is out there now will be back next year plus 1-2 impact players, with IMO the most talented recruit still to come (Jordan Poole - and if you don't believe me go watch his tape and then look at his measurables).  I think we could be set up for big things in the next few years, but there need to be some tweaks to the philosophy and roster management, ala changing to a ball screen oriented offense in 2011.

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ShazorsThroneo…

February 8th, 2016 at 3:28 PM ^

Hate to blame the kids but this is purely an execution / talent issue, not a Bellein scheme / coaching ability issue. After putting in the painful work of watching the past few games, you can see extreme repetition in the plays called. This is likely the result of Bellein seeing what we're all seeing: (i) very poor perimeter passing, (ii) very poor understanding of spacing / off-ball movement concepts and (iii) sluggish, imprecise movement generally. I think Bellein knows that the kids are struggling with his [incredible] offsense and is pulling back the reins until they demonstrate a bit of understanding of the multiple options and counters his offense incorporates. Hard to argue that defense and maybe recruiting are lackluster recently, but running too many poor defenders out on the floor might be too much for any scheme to overcome. 

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APGOBLUE

February 8th, 2016 at 3:27 PM ^

of being a mediocre program...no excuses. We need to recruit athletic bigs, I hate living next to sparty fans who rub it in all year, time for a winner. JB is good but to win EVERYTHING has to be going great, I want a coach that if we aren't shooting 3s well we can still win, or if a player is injured we have other ways to play like DEFENSE! We can't play D.

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OldMaize16

February 8th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^

College basketball is all about coaches. You can talk all day about how Michigan isn't an elite basketball program but that is mostly because we've never had an elite coach. Mediocrity for the sake of mediocrity is unacceptable. Fire Beilein



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smwilliams

February 8th, 2016 at 4:32 PM ^

On a side note, anybody else feel like this team lacks fire. There is no Darius Morris "get the F off my court" no Zack Novak aneurysm of leadership, no Mitch McGary "win the game", no Jordan Morgan, no Stauskas taunting the Illini fans.

It's like a team of 3 point shooting robots.



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Hotel Putingrad

February 8th, 2016 at 4:55 PM ^

in order to enjoy conference/tournament success, you have to be morally malleable (Frieder/Fischer) or supremely serendipitous (McGary/Burke) on the recruiting trail. So it has always been, so it will always be.

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WorldwideTJRob

February 8th, 2016 at 6:12 PM ^

He went to play with another elite recruit in Ivan Rabb whom he garnered a relationship with on the all-star circuit. I for one think we lost out on him because Bacari spilled the beans with a tweet before the kid was set to announce and I think it turned Jaylen off. If he was willing to come here and be clean then why at the last minute take money and gifts? That sounds goofy to me and just another way to excuse Beilein not being able to close on an elite recruit



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doggdetroit

February 9th, 2016 at 12:34 AM ^

I personally think the so called "bag man" is a bunch of BS. The only time I have ever seen it referenced is on this blog when Michigan loses out on a recruit. I fully acknowledge that schools cheat, but according to people here, every single school cheats. That's laughable. If this truly was the case, at some point one of thse schools would be caught. It's simple statistics.  

Also, insinuating that Cal is a dirty program is beyond ridculous. Cal-Berkeley, as in the most prestigious public school in the country. It's one thing when you accuse LSU or Alabama of cheating. It's another thing when you accuse a school with superior academics to Michigan of beating a cheater.  I would make the case that of the two, Michigan would be the more likely to bend the rules. There is far more pressure to win at Michigan. Cal has minimal interest in football and basketball. 

The reality of the situation is that recruiting is a soft skill. Either you have it or you don't. You referenced Cuonzo Martin. He was a smooth operator on the court at Purdue. He was a smooth operator at Tennessee as a coach and he's a smooth operator at Cal. Beilein on the other hand, is not smooth. We all like him. We find the stories about him having subs and calling it crazy funny. They are funny. But do you think a 17-18 year old kid gets the same impression? My guess is that Beilein comes across as very grandfatherly, which isn't a bad thing. It's just not very relatable to top shelf recruits.

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Trader Jack

February 8th, 2016 at 7:36 PM ^

I don't think you understand how college basketball recruiting works. There aren't necessarily "bag men" like in football. It's more the assistant coaches doing the head coach's dirty work so that he isn't directly connected and can say had no idea what was going on if they ever get caught. Additionally, the AAU system is incredibly dirty. It's not an excuse, it's just a fact. Most big time college programs are dirty. If Michigan isn't (which is fine by me), that puts them at a pretty large disadvantage when going after elite recruits.



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UMxWolverines

February 8th, 2016 at 8:43 PM ^

You're talking about CAL. FREAKING CAL! One regular season conference title since 1960 Cal. If they're dirty they're doing a terrible job at it. 

I don't get this ''fine by me if we're not dirty'' thinking. So you'd rather be middle of the road in the big ten forever than actually win anything...got it. 

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Trader Jack

February 8th, 2016 at 9:00 PM ^

We've won very recently without having to recruit dirty. We can do it again.

You're making my point for me. Cal hired Cuonzo Martin and suddenly they're landing two top 10 recruits? Even though they have no real history and neither recruit was from the area. I think it's reasonable to assume Cuonzo is dirty.



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Hotel Putingrad

February 8th, 2016 at 5:27 PM ^

They did well with Kaminsky and Decker and now they're right where we are. I'm not implying that we should cheat or that Beilein should be fired. I'm just saying that the way JB's program is set up is that you will most likely cycle through 2 great years every six. Unless you want to get your hands a little dirty, which Michigan justifiably does not want to do. If you want to secure the most athletic players in the country, you have to be okay with selling one-and-done or at least a style of play that's more traditionally B1G appropriate.

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WorldwideTJRob

February 8th, 2016 at 5:42 PM ^

They did well before Kaminsky and Dekker were ever on campus. We can be good consistently we just have to get better recruits. I think it's just too convenient for fans to say we aren't good because we recruit cleanly. Amaker didn't do shady things on the recruiting trail and he seemed to come up with better recruiting classes than Beilein on a more consistent basis. He did that without the winning or facilities Beilein currently has in his back pocket to pitch to kids while recruiting them. Beilein main issue now is that he is a little more enamored with fitting people in his system than finding talented players and molding a system around them.



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Yeoman

February 8th, 2016 at 6:49 PM ^

Ryan didn't win by landing prize recruits--as often as not, the competition on their offer sheets didn't get much better than NW and Northern Illinois. He won by finding players who could thrive in the system and culture he'd established.

Which is what you're criticizing Beilein for trying to do.

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VauntedD

February 8th, 2016 at 5:05 PM ^

Harbaugh should recruit for the basketball team. He is a tremendous talent evaluator. The team would be tougher than a $5 steak and have premier athletes.

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WorldwideTJRob

February 8th, 2016 at 5:09 PM ^

I'm not in the "Fire Beilein" crowd but we have to stop making excuses for him. He hasn't fared well on the recruiting trail lately and I'm not buying the excuse it's because he's "clean" and others are "dirty". Kam had his share of suitors and Beilein won that battle. Same can be said for Zak and Walton as well so he's beaten other teams for good players before so he just has to close on these players and stop finishing runner-up.

Maybe it's me but I hate that people just want us to settle for being mediocre in basketball. We have everything it takes to compete at a high level in the sport. Brand new practice facilities, great academic institution and a refurbished arena. I for one am not asking to be Duke, Kentucky or Kansas. However is it too much to ask if we can be Oklahoma, Maryland or Wisconsin?



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cp4three2

February 8th, 2016 at 5:35 PM ^

Both of those coaches were criticized because they didn't win anything. Michigan high school basketball is very good. We're the flagship university. We have more money than just about every other school in the country. The notion that you can't be good at football and basketball is weird. We were going to Rose Bowls and had the Fab Five at the same time. The world did not end. The worst party about the Webber scandal is that it has made people assume that we just can't be great at basketball. When Beilein retires, Michigan has the ability to pay for a top-notch coach, and we should expect them to. 

 

I don't think there are many people calling for Beilein to be fired tomorrow. It's completely legit to worry about his recruiting. He went to a Final Four and an Elite 8 based on one class and Trey Burke not getting offered by OSU and becoming Michigan Basketball's version of Connor Cook: an elite player at a pivotal position. It's difficult to see good state of Michigan big men going elsewhere because Beilein won't adjust. Hopefully having a season in which he already had 5 losses by 13 or more makes him realize he needs to make changes. 

 

 

 

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CLord

February 8th, 2016 at 6:07 PM ^

Sounds like a guy saying "we're mediocre and we should be OK with that."

Beilein is a good coach, but a shit recruiter.  Just shit.  Probably did less with a NC Championship appearance toward garnering future recruits than any Michigan coach ever.

Michigan has a proud basketball history, leads the series with MSU, yet we are to be cool with losing because we're not supposed to be Duke...

This isn't about the last one or two games either.  It's definitely a trajectory thing.  Beilein at some point should understand the value of rebounding and actually get himself some athletes down in the paint as opposed to good guys like Doyle who are less coordinated than my imaginary little sister.

Beilein shouldn't be fired, but he should revisit his recruiting model and look for changes.

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Padog

February 8th, 2016 at 6:25 PM ^

To me, mediocre is 9-9 in the B1G every year making the tourney one every three years. We aren't that. We aren't ok with that. Last year was a fluke, and this year injuries haven't been polite to us. We still might finish better than 10-8 in the B1G. Next year we return the same team that has been playing the last month. And your comments towards recruiting is ridiculous. Basketball is THE dirtiest in regards to recruiting and once you take away the top guys, the amount of players that fit the system are few. If you want to bash his defense, TO choice, or foul management that's fine. But don't talk about his recruiting without mentioning caveats.



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AlwaysBlue

February 8th, 2016 at 7:43 PM ^

and Walton were high 4*, Donnal and Wilson were also 4* (247). Wagner, most said, would have been at least a 4* had he played in the states. The biggest miss looks to be Chatman, the guy with the best offer list. The bigger problem is that they are missing the basketball brains of Spike, Stu, Novak, Trey and Morgan. None of these guys were great athletes.

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MGoDillon

February 8th, 2016 at 9:54 PM ^

So we have all this "talent", then why aren't we producing? That's the point. But also, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying "fire Beilein, were just saying his seat is starting to warm up and he should start being held accountable.



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AlwaysBlue

February 9th, 2016 at 12:35 AM ^

question...their basketball IQ. Without Caris and Spike Beilein is running the offense through Irvin and Walton. I don't know how much MAAR, Donnal and Robinson are to blame, but the entire offense has looked horrible. It has nothing to do with athleticism. And putting their defense in constant transition situations just amplifies their problems on that end of the court.

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BuckNekked

February 8th, 2016 at 6:17 PM ^

I dont see a groundswell of fire Beilein chatter. Hes got at least two more classes before I get to that point. But there is alot to be critical about (recruiting, bigs, defense, lack of athleticism) and if he doesnt hit with this class or the next one he is probably treading on thin ice. Mediocrity is unacceptable in any of our programs and if one reaches such a point change is necessary.

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Owosso wolverine

February 8th, 2016 at 6:38 PM ^

His 2 good classes after Lavert and spike will be gone ! We seen this pic of Doyle
All chiseled up last summer and he comes into season fat and out of shape again ! Wilson absolutely sucks and won't shoot the damn ball when open ! If
Irvin bolts we are screwed

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blueday

February 8th, 2016 at 7:08 PM ^

at home .. twice ... (I thought winning on the road was tough in the BIG 14) and your team seems lost ... We shall see if there is a spark to finish the season.  Facts rule.

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Lampuki

February 8th, 2016 at 8:25 PM ^

The only thing that is missing is grit and post play. We have had toughness in the past in spades ...Zach, Trey, Mitch, Daruis. I think Walton JR is as tough as they come. Caris is gritty. Spike was tough but most of these guys are GUARDS. without a tough dominant big man we must hit 3s so are inconsistent. It's really that simple. JB really is not a good recruiter when compared to cheaters and that's OK. JB is good but a flawed coach. We will never be elite with him and he ain't going anywhere. Need to get over it



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jdon

February 8th, 2016 at 8:33 PM ^

Why haven't Irvin and Walton gotten much better?
That is my question because if you looked at them two years ago you would have thought they would have gone pro by now...
Just thinking out loud



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N. Campus Tech

February 8th, 2016 at 9:15 PM ^

Since January 27, 2011 (The Aneurysm of Leadership), Michigan Basketball has the second most wins in the Conference with 63 and a winning percentage of 0.67 (third best behind Maryland and Wisconsin).

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Raoul

February 8th, 2016 at 11:41 PM ^

The problem is that Beilein's long-term success means nothing to the people with short-term mind-set syndrome.

The larger issue here is that there's a vocal subset of the Michigan fan base who've never liked Beilein and his style of play. They come out of the woodwork whenever there's the slightest blip on his record of success.

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Alumnus93

February 8th, 2016 at 9:53 PM ^

if u want basketball to return to glory, then the team has to be cool again, and someone needs to unite the fab five. Manuel and even Harbaugh, should work on Webber, the latter, is the biggest reason for msu success.

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