One Frame At A Time: Fire Hoke
These are actual quotes from Brady Hoke's presser this afternoon. I could not make them up if I tried, because they are appalling. Click the stills to open each GIF in a lightbox.
“I know there’s been a lot of talk, speculation, innuendos, whatever.” — Brady Hoke.
"We would never, ever, put a guy on the field when there's a possibility of head trauma." — Brady Hoke.
Hoke says he thought hit on Morris was targeting
— Alexa Dettelbach (@asdettel) September 29, 2014
Hoke on playing guys with concussion symptoms: "I would never put a kid in that situation, never have, never will."
— Dan Murphy (@DanMurphyESPN) September 29, 2014
Hoke on whether the athletic trainers did tests on the sideline, “I assume so.”
— Joshua Henschke (@JoshuaHenschke) September 29, 2014
Hoke says he wanted to get Gardner back in (presumably without a timeout), but was told no, "By that time, Shane's on the field."
— Nick Baumgardner (@nickbaumgardner) September 29, 2014
LOOK AT THE PLAY CLOCK
Hoke: on the criticism: "When your integrity and character is attacked that’s really unwarranted."
— angelique (@chengelis) September 29, 2014
Hoke on whether he will act different the next time: “I don’t know, I think that’s hypothetical.”
— Joshua Henschke (@JoshuaHenschke) September 29, 2014
September 29th, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^
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September 29th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
There is the possibility he doesn't have a concussion. I know Brian is saying that doesn't matter, but it does.
Um, No. It doesn't matter. That is all.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^
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September 29th, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^
Perfectly sums up the state of this program.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^
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September 29th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^
Great! I assume he assumes his players assume they know what he assumes.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^
Disclaimer: I don't think Brady Hoke is evil and I'm for giving him a fair chance to explain the situation.
That said, I don't get the "I assume so" answer. It seems to me that that's something he should have known by the time the decision was made to put Morris back on the field. Now let's give Hoke the benefit of the doubt and say that he trusts his staff to make the right decisions on the sideline and doesn't feel the need to ask questions. Couldn't he have confirmed after the game what attention Morris received?
September 29th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
Exactly. Still assuming 2 days after the game? A lack of attention to detail is just the one of the issues surrounding Hoke's team.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^
After his head clanked the turf, Morris grabbed for it first. Telltale sign.
Then he staggered around and probably would have fallen over if another guy hadn't held him up.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^
Hoke will never answer these of course, but it comes down to:
Coach Hoke, do you have any rough familiarity with the team's protocols for concussion testing? About how long does a test take? (Plus of course the gotcha question: Can you do a test in the 90 seconds he was on the sideline between Gardner going in and Gardner's helmet coming off?)
Coach Hoke do you think Morris exhibited any concussion like symptoms after that hit you termed targetting? (Well he kind of answered this, he saw nothing on the field, on the jumbotron [I was there, they showed Morris leaning on other players on it], etc.)
How happy are you Bo is not alive to see this?
Also any QB who volunteers to go in against State needs to be immediately taken to UMHS and placed on psych hold.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:00 PM ^
Hoke is done -- he's clearly not getting fired this week, or next, or any of the following weeks until the Monday after the OSU game. Brandon has been silent and that's enough evidence for me that Hoke is done, but Brandon has his protocols with coaches. I don't see us being bowl eligible this year, so Brandon can get his year end evaluation done on the Sunday after the OSU game, follow his "fair" protocol with coaches, and move on from this mess. I wish Brandon would get the ax, too, but with Stephen Ross giving him a vote of confidence, there's no way that's happening this year. Brandon would need to leave on his own accord because no one is pushing him out. This all being said, should the masses of Michigan fans accept this after this past Saturday and remain patient or should we pull out the "pitchforks" (i.e. keyboards) and flood Ross' office with letters asking him to reconsider his position and save Michigan football. The University President and Regents will listen to him before listening to the masses. He might listen to the masses if we're reserved and reasonable in our requests. Enough people already roll their eyes at his name being on so many buildings and the University at large will roll their eyes more if he continues to support his elitist friend Brandon.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:01 PM ^
GOODBYE coach Hoke
September 29th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
So Hoke/Brandon are saying that Hoke "assumes" the doctors did some kind of testing (today), but know the doctors cleared Morris to play (the statement)?
Um, yeah.
Does Hoke even know what happens on his sideline, you know ... with his team?
September 29th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
My one and only request with a new coaching hire...
Please let them be proponents of dual-threat quarterbacks, not statue pocket passers. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Those who see the advantages within this New Age of College Football.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
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September 29th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^
Or at least not categorically opposed. I do think you can win without a dual threat QB, but if you have a guy that can do some things with his legs, use it...
September 29th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
Play the best player regardless if they fit an archetype.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:47 PM ^
Can't rely on dual threat QBs. Those guys like Gardner are way more likely to be injured than pocket passers like Shane Morris.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:05 PM ^
Hoke says he thought hit on Morris was targetingI believe coach Hoke didn't see the play initially. I believe he didn't purposely leave a concussed player in the game. It's of my opinion that he clearly doesn't pay attention. This, combined with playclock issues, hurry-up, formations, etc. He's just clueless. The comment that he thought it was a targeting hit can be summed up as a post-hoc reaction to watching the film. I think we need to step back off the podium for at least this comment. As for the others, well, Hoke certainly is digging his own grave and certainly seems to be trying to push blame on others. Speaking of which, what would we have done if Hoke remained firm today on this stance, "We don't talk about injuries b/c I don't want to" meme. That died today (for good reason). I just can't fathom if he would have been able to leave the press conference with his head still attached to his body if he had tried to use that line today, of all days.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
But most coaches don't watch the ball. It's something I've talked about when people have asked me where I look while watching games/film. But the ball is typically where the least relevant information about the play is. The blocking, the downfield routes/converage are way more important and tell you way more information than watching the QB or RB with the ball in his hands. Heck, there is even a book called "Take Your Eye Off the Ball: How to watch football by knowing where to look".
September 29th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^
Fair enough, but shouldn't he take a look at his QB or a replay or ask someone or something after a 15 yard roughing the passer is called? I would hope "is Shane okay?" is his first thought after hearing that. Not seeing the hit live doesn't excuse being unaware of it or it's painful-to-watch after effects.
September 29th, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^
If Morris would have stayed down after the play, it would have given the refs more time to think about the correct call (ejection?) for the other player as well as give time for medical staff to assess him on the field. It is another piece of evidence that says Hoke's first bad decision was to even start Morris.
September 29th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
Cometitors compete. Sometimes to a stupid extent. But it's hard in that situation for someone that wants to compete to stay down. I was so desperate to make my varsity basketball team that I played in a spring "shoot-arounds" with a partially torn ACL and PCL before finally sitting out and rehabbing it so I would be ready by fall, mostly because I was frustrated that I was so bad.
So it's hard to blame a kid for fighting to stay in a game at a position he's worked his entire life to reach. I can't blame a kid in that situation, though optimally, yes, he would have gone down.
September 29th, 2014 at 3:20 PM ^
Is having the OC on the field. This a few degrees of separation, but hear me out. Typically the OC will be upstairs and will be watching the coverage. Someone else, a grad assistant or another position coach (typically with some QB coaching experience of some kind) will be on the field. That'll be the person the QB goes and talks to on the sideline when he comes off the field. He'll be the one watching the QB.
When that guy blows up the HC should blow up, because you trust those on your coaching staff to blow up appropriately. I dunno who is watching the QB on the play, but yeah. If there was no flag thrown I would absolutely agree that if Hoke didn't blow up that'd be a problem. There was a flag thrown though, so I dunno.
September 29th, 2014 at 3:08 PM ^
Hoke said he didn’t see the big hit on Morris because he was watching the ball.
— Bryan Fischer (@BryanDFischer) September 29, 2014
September 29th, 2014 at 4:45 PM ^
"You know that stuff I said about coaches not watching the ball . . . what I meant is that coaches do watch the ball . . . at least sometimes, except when they shouldn't. Because of course I realize that my argument about coaches not watching the ball was irrelevant, since Shane didn't have the ball when he was hit. So my point is, coaches -- including me, by the way, because I am, in fact, a coach myself, and here's an anecdote from my coaching experience -- sometimes watch the ball and sometimes don't. In conclusion, let's assume Hoke did the right thing here, even while conceding that in some alternate, purely theoretical universe, he might not always do the right thing."
September 29th, 2014 at 5:22 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 6:45 PM ^
Because I'm not going to argue with a writer for this blog right now; I've basically been told not to.
I find it funny that the people that bring up me coaching the most are the ones that want to argue against me, as if me coaching is a negative slight that should draw criticism. It's something I brought up once to draw a point to why I take this kind of criticism personally. Any other time I discussed my opinion on coaching matters was because someone asked. So sorry you don't like the perspective.
But the point still stands that they weren't watching the QB and still stands that coaches don't watch the ball most of the time. Coaches have other things to worry about that tell them more information, be that the coverage, the OL play, or what the next play call is going to be. That's just how it is, think about it. How much information do you get from watching the QB? You don't know if he makes the right reads, you don't know if he gets the ball out on time, you pretty much learn nothing about the offense other than his throwing mechanics and if he's accurate by watching the football. In contrast, by watching the coverage, you can diagnose if the QB is making the right reads, reading the defense on time, if the receivers are running their routes correctly, how the defense is reacting to the play, where the flaws are in the defense, etc. This isn't a coaching secret that I'm bringing up because I've coached football, hence why I linked a book available on amazon by that very name, regardless of how you try to spin coaching experience as a slight against me.
Anyway, neither coach was watching Morris because they were watching something else, Hoke was watching the ball, alright, cool. Ace proved to me that Hoke was watching the football instead of watching Morris, why would I argue that. I'm not spinning arguments, I'm only giving my perspective. Oh, but Hoke is a liar and an idiot, so I dunno, Hoke was probably watching the birds over top of the stadium.
Nussmeier also didn't see the hit. Was focused on playcalling. Looked up and saw Shane limping. Said Shane waved him off, saying he was ok
— Adam Schnepp (@aeschnepp) September 29, 2014
September 29th, 2014 at 7:52 PM ^
Spinmaster!
September 29th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^
his opinion after having watched the film. It was perfectly clear and consistent. Hoke did not see the hit and only formed his opinion after watching the film and sending it to the NCAA after the game. The way the quote is used in the original post is clearly out of context.
That is not the only example. Nussmeier explained that the protocol in that the medical staff does not discuss the details of a players health situation with a coach during the game. They make an assessment and the coach is informed if the player is unavailable. In the absense of that notification the player is assumed by the coaches to be playable. Given the pace of the game thia makes perfect sense - no debate by a coach if the medics say no the player doesn't get on the field.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^
"Never ever..."
Except that one time. It only takes one mistake to jeapordize one of your kids' health.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^
I know it was different circumstances, but Bo fired Frieder in the middle of the basketball season because he wanted a Michigan man to coach Michigan (the birth of the now disdained phrase). It was right before the NCAA tournament, the most important part of the basketball season in most people's eyes. Look what happened???? Steve Fisher led them to a championship. I don't think this would happen with this football team with regards to the B1G championship, but an interim coach might be the spark the team needs to go from mediocre/average to slightly above average. Slightly above average might be enough to win the B1G this year.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:15 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 2:24 PM ^
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function... F. Scott Fitzgerald
Hoke says he thought hit on Morris was targeting
— Alexa Dettelbach (@asdettel) September 29, 2014
Hoke on playing guys with concussion symptoms: "I would never put a kid in that situation, never have, never will."
— Dan Murphy (@DanMurphyESPN) September 29, 2014
September 29th, 2014 at 3:02 PM ^
Those aren't opposed ideas.
September 29th, 2014 at 4:06 PM ^
I was about to go guns blazing over the same thing, but the truth is targeting can simply mean leading with the crown of the helmet and hitting any body part at all. Better to be airtight in one's criticisms.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
ejected. As a coach I would raise hell with the officals for putting my players in danger. What does Hoke do. He did NOTHING. Not even protect his young QB. Hell he basically left Morris out there to fend for himself. This is a terrible coaching move that will get a coach fired when they are on a hot seat. But a lot of places would have fired him immeadately.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:24 PM ^
but I wonder if everyone would be demanding his head if we were 4-1 or 5-0. This hit is just being used as ammunition to get him fired and people would be much less Outraged(TM) if we were doing well
September 29th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
The outrage would be still be there. Would people be calling strenously for his job if he was 5-0 right now? Probably not. But there would still be outrage.
September 29th, 2014 at 3:01 PM ^
Maybe we would be demanding a suspension of some kind, but Shane's likely concussion is just being used as further ammo vs. Hoke because everyone was super unhappy with him anyway. If we were 5-0, we'd probably be defending Hoke on some level vs. other outraged people.
The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. You just cannot send a kid back out there without doing concussion testing. Was it deliberate? No, I can't imagine Hoke doing that for the sake of a QB who hadn't yet passed for 50 yards. Is it punishable? Yes, I would expect another program in this situation to publically apologize and maybe suspend the coach for a game or two or something. Hoke didn't try to murder Shane, he made a very bad mistake.
And yes, I still think he should be fired for being awful at coaching football. Not because he's an evil villian trying to kill everyones brain.
September 29th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^
Perhaps the one reason that I had previously defended Hoke was he seemed (and I believed) that he was in all ways other than outcome on the field a real credit to the program. He seemed to truly care about his players and was in all respects a stand-up guy and a straight shooter. At today's press conference, he refused to accept any blame whatsoever for what happened or even to say that he would take affirmative steps to avoid a repetition (all questions of that nature were hypotheticals not to be answered). It also seemed to me as if there were reasons to believe the team was improving and would continue to improve.
To have left Morris in for so long borders on incomprehensible if for no other reason than his dismal performance up to that point in time. As others have said, when there is a penalty for a late hit on your QB, at a minimum AND EVEN IF HE DID NOT SEE THE PLAY, he should have been finding out what happened and once he did find out have immediately taken steps to get Morris off the field.
The way he has handled this situation combined with the way he handled the game on Saturday has made a number of us conclude that we were giving him too much credit. It is hard to square his attitude and answers in today's press conference with caring about the players. From what he said, it seems clear that Morris was not tested for concussion symptoms on the sideline at any point on Saturday during the game and far from certain that he has been so treated since the game ended. If he has been examined, Hoke certainly was unwilling to affirmatively state that fact.
What happened Saturday and yesterday and again today has made many of us who were still supporting Hoke at kickoff time on Saturday that we were wrong. He has to go, and he should go immediately.
I would be inclined to exonerate Nussmeier if he did not see the play (he says he did not see it), as it should be the HC who is being informed from all available sources about player safety issues.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^
If Hoke were 5-0, many more people would be defending him because that is what fans do when their head coach is winning. See: Dantonio putting Gholston back in the game two years ago after he was knocked out cold.
September 29th, 2014 at 5:24 PM ^
I agree. Perhaps we should tone down our rhetoric. However, if he were 0-5 we wouldn't defend him even a little bit. Perhaps we should ramp up the empty rhetoric. However, If he were 3-2 I bet my bottom dollar would defend him a medium amount. Hypothetically if he had won the Nobel Peace Prize before he got into coaching we wouldnt be doubting how much he cares for his players. Then again hypothetically, If he were a convicted felon and then got into coaching somehow I think we would be very harsh. I'm confused about the level I should set my rhetoric at. There are just too many gosh darn hypotheticals to illustrate potential scenarios in which fans would be more likley to have a variety of hypothetical reactions to the coaches hypothetical record in hypothetical combination with his handling of the Morris situation.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^
I'll let our HC do the talking:
"It's hypothetical."
September 29th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
I do not understand why some people keep saying "Well If we were 5 - 0 no one would be saying we should fire Hoke". YOUR talking in hypatheticals. (For the board's grammar nazis: Yes I spelled it that way for a reason). Hoke is a bad coach. He can't manage the game's tempo, personnel groups or Injuries, etc. This is WHY we suck. If we were 5 - 0 we wouldnt have any of these problems and the "Morris Situation" most likely wouldn't have happened. The incompetent coaching is the cause of our bad record. People wondering how things would be if we had an incompetent coach and a good record does not make any sense.
September 29th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
People are using the hypothetical to demonstrate the overblown response to this particular incident. If our reaction to Morris' treatment would be milder were Hoke 5-0, then at least part of our current reaction is due to poor performance. The natural conclusion to draw from this is that perhaps we should tone down the rhetoric on how this was the most heinous, irresponsible move in the history of coaching.
September 29th, 2014 at 4:44 PM ^
No shit people would be less angry if we were 5-0. That goes without saying...even though you and a few others still state the obvious. What happened with Morris in combination with all the other signs of incompetency make people's frustration perfectly understandable. Nothing happens in a vaccum. Your argument only makes sense of people look at this incident and somehow block out the fact that we huddle, have a slow tempo, don't go for two and punt all when we are down with limited time but still have a chance to win. Plus we fail to develop players despite the quality of our recruits. Plus the way Hoke speaks only in platitudes. I could go on and on. The fans are the loyal customers paying for a product we care about and we get treated like crap. We aren't reacting to this single incident if you haven't figured that out yet. The situation is more complicated than that.
September 29th, 2014 at 4:52 PM ^
My point went so far over your head that I'm not going to expend the energy to get up and grab it for you.
September 29th, 2014 at 5:01 PM ^
Hypothetically if you did have the energy to go high enough and grab it for me and actually have a response, It would seem more like your previous post actually made sense and wasn't so pointless. It seems that it likely took all your energy to compose it and is the reason you can't get up and grab it currently. Hypothetically.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
Maybe it's not a firing offense in that hypothetical, assuming it's an isolated incident. But it's not isolated. And I would hope even in that hypothetical that the coach faces some sort of serious discipline - I remember being upset at Brian Kelly for putting in an obviously woozy Tommy Rees (and I wasn't alone on this blog). As it is it looks like Hoke's going to get off scot-free, hence Outraged(TM).
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