Question of the week

Submitted by theguy49503 on October 9th, 2017 at 10:06 AM

Soooooo do you give Peters a shot or do you roll with O'Korn again and chalk up Saturdays game as simply a bad game? Obviosuly everything is earned in practice but just curious given the JO that showed up Saturday looked like the one from the Inidana game last year

Comments

Double-D

October 9th, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^

Serious question

How was Perry's catch in the end zone ruled down at the one? It seemed clear live and on replay he fell into the end zone on his ass.

I know it was reviewed in the booth. Am I missing something.

ijohnb

October 9th, 2017 at 11:01 AM ^

ball did not cross the goal line.  His ass did, but the ball didn't.  And O'Korn tripping over the center on the next play was hilariously predictable.  I am just surprised that it did not result in a fumble that was returned 99 and 3/4 yards for an MSU touchdown.

Alumnus93

October 9th, 2017 at 1:11 PM ^

Say what you want, but Malzone was a GAMER anytime he played... and I say he'd have beaten MSU.   My gosh, I still cannot believe we lost and how mentally weak O'Korn is... spouts off how after Purdue game how much he cared about showing up Tony Levine... thats immaturity.    And before you scoff at Malzone.... Perry is our best WR by a mile, and nobody expected it, either.

Dylan

October 9th, 2017 at 10:12 AM ^

Oh I'm already waiting for McCaffrey.

But I remain more interested in the "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO YOUR ABILITY TO CALL ADEQUATE OFFENSIVE PLAYS THAT AREN'T THE MOST PREDICTIBLE, INEFFECTIVE, BORING PLAYS I HAVE EVER SEEN AT ANY LEVEL OF FOOTBALL." shouting.

LKLIII

October 9th, 2017 at 10:16 AM ^

I still don't get this criticism versus the other offensive criticism that our scheme is way too complex.

Isn't this an either/or problem? How can an offensive scheme be simultaneously too complicated for our players to execute but also too simple & obvious that the defense sees it coming a mile away.

I Like Burgers

October 9th, 2017 at 11:27 AM ^

But I think that does answer the question.  We always hear that Peters doesn't have command of the offense.  When you're the man in charge of offense and everyone else around is young and will need hand holding from time to time to get them in the right position, its likely that what that knock on Peters is really saying is that the offense is too complex and he doesn't have a grasp on all of it yet.

So while Peters might be the better arm talent and more accurate QB, if he's not entirely sure where everyone is supposed to be lined up on 60-80 different formations (if Mich ran 40 vs. MSU, they definitely have a lot more than that they haven't used), and isn't 100% sure of all the different checks, then that feels like a pretty good description of "doesn't have command of the offense."

jdemille9

October 9th, 2017 at 11:38 AM ^

This is exactly where I'm at and it doesn't bother me. Kid is just a RS Frosh, it takes time to learn the playbook but given what you said (extreme youth) adding in a kid who doesn't know much of the playbook is a recipe for disaster. 

IF we do see him it won't be until after PSU. No way they start a kid who isn't ready yet at night on the road.

Alumnus93

October 9th, 2017 at 1:45 PM ^

It probably is too complex.. Dantoni inferred it...shook his head at the 40 formations... lets not knock Peters here.... Harbaugh and Hamilton are expecting them to be pros, yet pros don't have to take 16 credit hours, either... this isnt msu and 10 formations and don't have to go to class so they have all the time in the world... 40 is overkill especially when our players, you know, have to go to real class, and at a tough school.     My gosh, I still cannot believe what a choke job it was losing.

ijohnb

October 9th, 2017 at 10:29 AM ^

is lost in poor execution.  To say it is "complex" is not to say that it is difficult to prepare for right now, because our players are "thinking it out" before executing it, it isn't second nature.  I think it is also contributing to turnovers because so much emphasis is being placed on scheme that very little focus is going to fundamentals.  Essentially, Michigan's offense is them vs. themselves right now, and it is principle over outcome.  What the coaches are looking for is an offense that completely dictates the game as a result of precise timing, efficiency, and execution.  Our first drive against Michigan State stretched out over a full sixty minutes.  The issue is that these are college kids with practice time and eligibility limits.  I am not sure if a college team can run what Harbaugh is trying to run right now, frankly.

RockinLoud

October 9th, 2017 at 12:03 PM ^

A valid point. I think they can execute it well if the core players have been in the system 3+ years, but asking a team where half your starters are 1st or 2nd year players to execute what is quite possibly the most complex offense in college football generally isn't going to go well IMHO. I mean, the fact that even when the OL pass-blocks effectively there didn't seem to be any receivers open 90% of those instances kind of points to a very young group of skill guys not adept at running the routes consistently well yet, a portion of which I would say is due to the higher level of complexity of what this staff is trying to do.

I Like Burgers

October 9th, 2017 at 11:22 AM ^

Couple of things I read postgame might hint at some of that complexity.  Read somewhere that Dantonio said Michigan ran 40 different formations.  They had under 80 offensive possessions, so that's 1 new formation for every 2 plays.  That's an awful lot of time spent on game week and in the offseason installing all of those formations.  And for a young offense, that limited practice time might be better spent elsewhere.  Be great at 10 formations instead of mediocre at 40.

Another one came from Nick B's twitter feed (I think) where upon his rewatch of the game, he noticed how often the WRs are taking 2-3 false steps before they ever leave the line of scrimmage.  That sounds like overcoaching and asking players that haven't played a ton to focus on technique too much instead of just getting off the line and getting open.  Your OL can't block, why are you having your WRs dance at the LOS?

Both of those things feel like overthinking things and wasting time on technique and play design that's not really going to make any sort of difference because you don't have the talent and experience to pull it off in the first place.

So rather than spending time on all of that, find simple ways to get people like DPJ the ball in open space.  Find a way for more quick hitting plays that don't require your OL to block for 5s to allow the complex play and routes to all play out.

RockinLoud

October 9th, 2017 at 12:10 PM ^

The "dancing" at the line is supposed to allow you to beat press coverage - we were taught similar technique when I played WR in high-school. They just may not be that effective at beating it yet because everyone outside of Perry is super young still and FBS is a hugh step up in compitition level for most players. Or, they could just be teaching the technique poorly, because to your point, you still have to be fast and get into your route at the same time. 

I Like Burgers

October 9th, 2017 at 2:17 PM ^

Its another thing that makes me wonder if Pep is a good fit for college, or at the very least is taking longer to get reacclimated.  Its one thing to teach NFL players for the last three years on how to run a route and the things you should be doing (like steps at the line), but it takes another mindset to teach someone barely out of high school that's never really run routes before what to do.

Just ditch all of that for the time being and focus on things to get them open ASAP.

BlueSpiceIn SEC.hell

October 9th, 2017 at 6:34 PM ^

IU last year-snow storm-won game

This year

Purdue- 3 for 3 in redzone

MSU
16 play drive - TD
Next series-Driving -Isaac fumble
Series before half-driving -McKeon fumble
Monsoon, Interceptions yes, but, play calls, execution, tough
There were drops by receivers- don't remember them all... Perry, Hill, McDoom obviously

I don't believe loss is all on O'Korn

BursleyBaitsBus

October 9th, 2017 at 10:45 AM ^

I want all of you to go look at what Chris Petersen did when he got to another dumpster fire in Washington.

He went out and GOT HIS QB AND THEN IMMEDIATELY THREW HIM INTO THE FIRE.

Yeah Browning and co sucked his first year but look at them last year and now.

That’s what Harbaugh should’ve done instead of perpetually running into a wall with these older has been QBs. Just start the younger guys. Nothing to lose.

Reader71

October 9th, 2017 at 3:39 PM ^

Why not? Speight has eligibility for the rest of this year and next. If he didn’t break his neck, we would have been going through some struggles with an eye on him being really good next season. But there were very few who felt that way for some reason.

You have a point with O’Korn, but he gives us a better chance to win this season than Peters does. And I don’t believe that next season’s games are any more important than this season’s. And next season’s improvement is no guarantee. c.f. Speight, Wilton; 2017 edition.

Still, I just don’t believe that the fan base would be patient with a young QB like Peters. We’d be calling for Speight and O’Korn and even McCaffery. Why not play Speight, he looked pretty good last year? Why not play O’Korn, he’s a fifth year senior with game experience, and he’s mobile? Why not play McCaffery, he’s only a year younger?

robpollard

October 9th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^

In special teams and (especially) defense, UM is in really good shape. We are far from a "dumpster fire."

There is no game on our schedule which I don't think UM can keep close because of our D and special teams.

Now, do I think we'll beat Penn State? Heck no -- but it will most probably be 17-7 or 21-10, not a blow out. And if we have a couple things bounce our way (literally - we need the football gods to bounce a dropped ball to us), we could win.

That's not the situation you start someone a QB who has talent, but needs significant time to grow and develop that talent.

Alumnus93

October 9th, 2017 at 1:49 PM ^

I for one like Speight, and hope this snaps him out of the funk.  btw drew brees was in one in SD and they drafted rivers because of it, and snapped brees out of it, and the rest is history.. same thing is happening now with alex smith. 

now, when Speight returns, expect a headier player.... lets hope.....

Da Fino

October 9th, 2017 at 11:44 AM ^

My thoughts exactly.  One more loss and I'd argue it's worthwhile to start developing the 2018 option (whether Peters or McCaffrey or both).  At that point, what difference would it make?  If someone's going to suck, at least make some effort to improve for the long-term.

mrkid

October 9th, 2017 at 10:13 AM ^

I want to see O'Korn in one more fair weather game. I hope the weather is good on Saturday. Indiana's defense isn't horrible, so I'd like to see what O'Korn can do in one more game. If he can be Purdue O'Korn, we can win the rest of the games on our schedule.

PolskaPride

October 9th, 2017 at 10:25 AM ^

I'm in this boat too. Honestly, O'Korn was leading us down the field and both fumbles crushed promising drives. He put together a nice drive to get us our only touchdown and then the weather changed. Obviously three interceptions is not a good day no matter what but throwing in a monsoon isn't easy. His interceptions also didn't have as severe of an impact as either of the fumbles. He even led us at the end to give us a chance and his receivers didn't help him out, McDoom :(. It was a bad performance but I haven't written him off like a lot of people have.

True Blue Grit

October 9th, 2017 at 11:19 AM ^

whether it's O'Korn's vision, receivers not getting open, poor pass protection blocking, or play calling, Michigan must be able to get pass completions down the field (10+ yards).  Otherwise, we will do poorly the rest of the schedule.  Dink passing or O'Korn running for his life to gain a few yards constantly will result in more losses.  I don't think our running game is that bad.  It's not great, and they need to fumble less.  But if we start completing more passes down the field, other teams will start backing off stuffing the box.  Then, the running game will do better also.  

Saturday was very frustrating to watch.