Preliminary Injunction denied in Gov Lawsuit
Today the Michigan Court of Claims denied injunctive relief requested by outside groups against the Gov’s emergency orders. The opinion - as detailed below - will likely (in my opinion) be similar to the opinion in the case brought by the legislature as well. I have a hard time believing these two judges aren’t communicating given the circumstances and import.
A reminder that this isn’t a final decision, but it arrests the groups’ attempt to have an order enjoining the Gov’s actions, and the final outcome will very likely echo this opinion.
it also sets up a mess if the other case is decided differently, which is why I believe the other case will have a similar result. I encourage people to read the opinion before popping off. Also, given that the majority in the legislature went after the swing vote on the state Supreme Court (who was a Republican before 2018), I have a hard time seeing the Gov not ultimately prevailing.
Lucky.
We’re lawless, drunken, soon-to-be-sick bastards over here in cheeseland.
Hey, it’s not so bad, death is a small price to pay to see The House On The Rock
They probably buttered up the court in WI. They should take those cheddarheads into custardy and make them read the legal brie in the Michigan case. It'll do those lawless people some gouda and maybe they'll stop milking the situation. Good for Michigan authorities to not be cowed by the protests.
i hate to badger you with comments, but i think after the comedy you've written, you should pack it in.
Fat chance of that. I'm always trying to churn up trouble.
you may look like a green horn with that behavior, don't know if you'll be able to keep your critics at bay.
Yeah, I hear you loud and eau claire. I'm probably going to get creamed.
if i were you, i'd be racine out of here.
Will probably just jump around for a bit.
I prefer these cheesy jokes over comedians who work blue
Well done on witty responses !!!
It’d have taken me much longer to come up with all that. Kudos
They're going to have a Comte Jesus moment, for sure.
You do realize that without restrictions from govt officials you still can hide under your bed right?
I'm not an attorney. Does this mean that the constitutional scholars posting on my community Facebook page were wrong?
Brilliant response -- you really taxed your mental capabilities coming up with that one, didn't you?.
Please go out at lick a dozen doorknobs or so right away.
it would be improper to have the judges speaking with one another on any type of pending cases in this context. also, dramatically different arguments (and counsel) were made both in writing, and in oral arguments. lastly, the questioning by the judge who has yet to issue an opinion was basically antagonistic towards whitmer's attorney. large caveat to that last comment applies: i have had tons of jurors and judges ask questions that would make you think your case is doomed, and it turned out fine; and the flip side equally true, too. so with that big grain of salt, the second opinion is not going to be tie-barred to the first, and no matter what, our (michigan's) supremes are going to have the last say.
supremes? did diana get the gang back together?
Counsel for the Gov was...not impressive. At the end of the day I think the judge will rule in his favor, but he didn't do himself any favors.
Everything the Governor does is improper, so what else is new? LOL
Seems apparent that this will rapidly get appealed regardless of outcome, no?
Xtra, I agree that sometimes you don’t know from a hearing if somethings going to go your way, but I also know as someone that has been in courtrooms for the better part of 20 years; judges talk to each other...a lot. You should know that too
sure they do, but if they are talking about this case they are violating judicial cannon #3, and that can get your judgeship yanked.
"I encourage people to read the opinion before popping off"
This is 'Merica. We'll do as we please.
Personally, I can't think of anything more American than to have a strong opinion about something I know very little about.
Like me, for instance. I'm about to start a conversation on Taoism.
In my opinion, Tao is the stupidest Greek letter. Only idiots would use Tao in an equation.
Yes, We are too dumb and need goverment to hold our hand. Just an opportunity to ruin the economy create more division and double standards..
Clearly there is a significant portion of the population that needs their hand held-and both sides of our political aisle fully understand this (sad) reality and take full advantage of it. "We have met the enemy and it is us" has never been more true. Each and every one of us are who we are-and not a single one of us can escape this fact-no matter how much we protest and contend otherwise. I have just read Harari's "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" and am almost finished with his sequel "Homo Deus". Harari's take on who we are, fundamentally, is both fascinating and compelling. Read these two works...go take a hard look in the mirror...and sigh. We are neither as stupid nor as smart as we think we are. However, here we would all do well to acknowledge reality.
I haven't read either, but I take it from your comment that the essence of the sequel is that we all could stand to have and demonstrate a bit more humility. If I understood correctly, I certainly don't disagree.
I've read them and didn't get that take. He has an interesting way of assessing things. he is pretty negative on "humans" from what I gathered.
The governors claim to have the power to dictate these shutdowns, and the president and congress agrees with this. Any challenge seems like weak to me.
you just said congress and the president agreed.....thats it.....COVID-19 is the end of the reign of humanity. it was a good run
It's a state constitutional question. In that context, your analysis seems a little light.
Here come the hydroxychloroquine crowd.
King of the Covidiots
i have had the occasion to personally speak with a number of front-line health care personnel in our area on this issue: doctors, nurses, PA's. what they told me was that are having success with hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin combo when administered before folks were at death's door. in other words, it didn't help outcomes when administered as a last ditch effort, but was helpful when folks were heading that direction.
so go ahead and mock that if it helps.
UM Hospital dropped it from their treat regimen within a week due to a lack of efficacy and cardiovascular side effects.
Me, I'm going to listen to the smartest medical minds in the state.
is that the lead of cardio surgical transplant Doogie Howser? haven't name dropped him in a few of your academia insult retorts...
the same U of M hospital that used it to save a dear friend of mine's life? i don't work there, but my guess is that they consider it a possible tool but maybe they have found other treatments, or, like the medical folks up here, use it in select cases.
“Michigan Medicine also has stopped using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID, unless the patient is enrolled in a clinical trial. That’s because of side effects ranging from vomiting to heart and liver problems, said Dr. Vineet Chopra, Michigan Medicine’s Chief of Hospital Medicine.”
I am glad your friend got better, but It doesn’t look like they think it as useful as you seem to think it is. Just because he was given a drug, that doesn’t mean it is what saved his life.
your post is emblematic of the hyper-vigilance many on this board have against any form of good news - it is never good enough, effective enough, proven enough. but the quote you did include corroborates what i theorized: that in some situations they are using it.
you left out another quote from the article here:
At Detroit Medical Center, Dr. Teena Chopra said doctors believe the drug may be helping keep some COVID inpatients off ventilators.
“We haven't seen any harm,” said Chopra, who oversees DMC’s infection prevention efforts. “And we've been able to take patients, use this [drug] and delayed the need for ventilation in some category of our patients."
and lastly, its not what i think of the drug's possibilities, its what real live, honest-to-goodness, front line medical personnel told me face-to-face based on their actual experience.
i literally have pity for the uber-negative people here, maybe its a defense mechanism? it is genuinely sad and i can only imagine how terribly it must mar the rest of their lives in virtually every other area of it.
I only included the quote from U of M because I was responding to your assertion about it’s use at U of M.
I literally have pity for self righteous people who can read a post on a message board and infer that i am uber negative and that my life is terribly marred.
Here is another U of M quote for you:
So far, there is very little data backing the idea that hydroxychloroquine works against coronavirus infection, yet the fervour surrounding it has created drug shortages and affected enrolment in clinical trials for other potential treatments.
“When you have desperate people and, frankly, desperate doctors, you want to believe that you have something that works,” says Daniel Kaul, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Michigan Medical School in Ann Arbor. “But at the end of the day that doesn’t help anybody if it isn’t effective, and if it precludes people from participating in other studies.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01165-3
So you go waste your pity on my perceived uber negativity. I’ll focus my concern on hyper politicization of a treatment option that actual studies (and not mere anecdotes) suggests is of limited effect and the real world consequences that could have in taking away resources that might find a more effective treatment option.
XM how many people in your area have been infected? If I remember correctly you are in Northern Michigan.
I appreciate that they truly feel that it is helping the situation, but this is still purely anecdotal evidence as opposed to an actual study with a placebo to determine actual impacts. With the side effects being reported, its tough to say it is worth it without any strong evidence of a benefit.
I'd say that has been definitively debunked by this point, xtra. I really don't understand how an intelligent person can continue to hold the view that you're promoting here. There have been multiple trials, all showing the same thing. It doesn't work any better than... air.
To both this comment and blue_in_dc's, I don't disagree that HCQ has not been shown to be more effective than placebos in controlled trials - and may actually have significant cardiovascular risk. I trust the science.
What I find interesting, however, is that the disease state(s) caused by this virus seem to vary from the expected respiratory effects in a minority of patients, and it's really not clear why (apart from an apparent, common thread related to inflammation). It's like the virus is a real-life version of Gremlins; non-threatening, and then it's a horror show. HCQ might be similar: largely ineffective for many, but depending upon a combination of factors, has a benefit in some. There are so many confounding factors, that I doubt we'll ever know with 100% certainty either way.
It's also true that some antivirals are completely worthless after the first few days of symptoms (tamiflu comes to mind, and remdesivir might be the same). I haven't read the studies in detail, but I wonder if there is a statistical difference in outcomes for patients who are given HCQ early in the disease cycle. It may be difficult to determine because by the time a patient is sick enough to prescribe it, the efficacy of the drug may be minimal anyway.
a.) i'm not intelligent
b.) actual real human beings, doctors, nurses and a couple of PA's have all relayed this information to me based on their own personal experience. i didn't read it on the net, i heard it first hand from licensed professionals with no agenda. contrast that with the weaponizing of the word 'science' and 'experts' and that gives cause to pause, at least for me, a low wattage bulb.
Weaponizing?
You're clearly a bright guy. Not commenting on the rest right now.
There is a reason that we do controlled drug trials with large numbers of people. It is very hard to differentiate between the number of people who were likely to recover at a similar speed and those who were truly helped. Further, there are clear downsides to hydrochloroquine. We may ultimately find out that as a preventative or if taken early, it can be helpful, but politicizing an unproven treatment helps no one.