Next bye week topic: Recruiting
There has been plenty of hand wringing over the slow start to the 2023 recruiting class. I would say these two things are true:
1.The Harbaugh to the NFL thing almost happening slow down a recruiting momentum.
2. Michigan develops 3.5 to low 4 star players better than almost anyone else, so a class that is not chock-full of top 100 players is not the end of the world.
With that being said, I would think that things should be looking up pretty soon given our start.
Breaking down by positions:
QB: Looks like we might strike out on the heir apparent to JJ for this class which means getting a Jaydn Davis in 2024 is critical. And also means we might need a bridge QB for 2024 even if we get him.
RB: We will lose Corum but will bring back Edwards and have Stokes next season. Stokes seems like he will have a Higdon type career. We have Cabana and a bruiser, Hall, coming in 2023. 2024 probably needs to be a year where we pull an elite one.
WR/TE. A few mid rated guys but I think we have a lot of young talent waiting and Harbaugh always finds gold with the TEs.
OL: Need a couple more good ones here.
DL: We have a couple of top Edge/SDE types but could use another big DT. But with Graham and Grant being freshman this year it’s not a huge concern.
LBs: We have 4* Bridgeman coming in but could use another.
Secondary: We loaded up on safety types last year, so i think a couple of true cover corners are needed.
Who do you think we have a reasonable chance of closing with?
October 19th, 2022 at 9:56 AM ^
Was curious to take a mid-season look at AP top 15 + 247 Team talent + current class ranking. There definitely seems to be a tier 1 of the obvious three, then Clemson, USC and Oregon seem similar and after that the rest really drop off a cliff. From this perspective UM seems to be just at the tail end of that 2nd tier. Hoping that '23 class picks up some steam.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:36 AM ^
Is this chart trying to tell us that Oregon and USC have out recruited us?
October 19th, 2022 at 10:44 AM ^
This is 247 telling us those two teams have out recruited Michigan.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:46 AM ^
Teams ranked above Michigan in team talent but ranked below us in pills: Texas A&M (4th), Texas (6th), LSU (8th), Oklahoma (9th), ND (10th) Florida (12th) amd Miami (YTM) (13th).
I suppose coaching/talent development matter..
October 19th, 2022 at 3:43 PM ^
It matters vs every team not OSU, Clemson, Georgia, and Bama.
For those schools you better be on par with them recruiting or have some rivalry mojo working for you (Auburn and Michigan)
You cant offset elite coaching head to head with inferior recruiting. Nothing wrong with being an Oklahoma, Michigan or Notre Dame type school as long as you are honest with yourself and know going to the playoff is the ceiling.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:04 AM ^
Do non-grad transfers need to sit out a year again (like in the pre-COVID days) or can they play immediately?
If it's immediately, then the recruiting rankings are less relevant, since teams can just grab a bunch of portal players to fill in any gaps. This is where Michigan needs to make it easier for athletic transfers.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
jblaze, to my knowledge, sitting out a year is a "thing of the past". All transfers have immediate eligibility at their new school.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:44 AM ^
Thanks! I knew it was instituted for COVID, but didn't know if they rolled it back.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:11 AM ^
It wasn't instituted "for" COVID. It just happened that the COVID season was going on when the rules were changed. The year not counting against eligibility was instituted for COVID.
October 19th, 2022 at 12:53 PM ^
I don't think teams can just grab excellent transfers. There are transfers, but not all of them are great. And for ones who are great, there is competition with other teams that want them.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
Star gazer here. Believe UM needs much more top end talent, baffled by the high end line talent that has trended to ND/PSU/MSU over UM in this cycle. Hoping for some big flips.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:14 AM ^
i can see some of the hope there, maybe, but like u, im confused that we are not collecting solid 4 stars at least, with some high end talent in the mix. Right now, our players are in the 3 and 4 digit range in terms of ranking, and we're barely getting a sniff in the top 100.
seems strange that all these guys are taking visits and nobody commits. rivals are getting commitments on weekends theyre getting beat.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:42 AM ^
I like to give kids the benefit of the doubt, but it's starting to get frustrating that we're losing recruiting battles to these underperforming teams and their snake oil salesman coaches
October 19th, 2022 at 11:23 AM ^
I continue to be mystified how we are just doing "fine" with RB and OL recruiting. We should be getting at least a Blake Corum (high 4 star) or Donovan Edwards (5 star) *every* class -- who gives multiple backs more opportunities for 100 yard games than Michigan? Yet that didn't happen last year; Cabana qualifies this year. And no offense to Benjamin Hall, but any additional backs we get should be 4 stars and/or very good offers, not guys who were picking btw us, Ga Tech and BC.
And for OL? We regularly send people to the NFL *and* just pave people. All your 4 and 5 stars should belong to us. Yet right now we have 2 (solid) guys...and that's it.
October 19th, 2022 at 12:08 PM ^
I will defer to Harbaugh and co for the OL. It has notoriously been a position that is hard to predict via recruiting and we have had quite a bit of line success following his formula. Obviously, other positions are a different story.
October 19th, 2022 at 1:24 PM ^
I know there has been some good development, but the current formula, which has six rotational players, is five 4-stars (Jones, Barnhart, Hayes, Zinter and Keegan) and an All-American level senior transfer Oluwatimi. The 7th OL is El-Hadi, a Top 100 player.
My concern / bafflement is that we need 4 or 5 OL this year and after the two we have now, it looks far from assured the rest will be of likely quality, let alone a step up (which is reasonable to hope for, considering our success and the way we play).
October 19th, 2022 at 11:34 AM ^
When you have a February where you lose both coordinators and almost lose your head coach, it’s hard to recover for recruits who are heading into their senior year when you’re building those relationships in their sophomore and junior years. Add to that having a third recruiting coordinator in 3 years and a slow ramp to NIL, you end up where we are now. We can recover from one down class but if we have another bad class in the 2024 class, I’ll start to panic.
October 19th, 2022 at 12:08 PM ^
Have you looked at the top instate recruits for 2024 yet? You might want to sit down first
October 19th, 2022 at 11:34 AM ^
IMO if you want to be a top 5 team you need to recruit in the top 5 consistently. Developing guys and punching above your weight class is great but it's not going to last forever. Like you said we need more top end talent to sustain success or we will fade.
October 19th, 2022 at 12:01 PM ^
not just fade, but will get run off the field by a team that's done that AND is coached well AND has a good game plan AND is on fire. e.g. Georgia last year.
To compete with them, last year should have been a launch pad to get better athletes in more positions. More top end talent to compete at that elite level.
Instead, we had the harbs to nfl mess, coordinators leaving, etc... and it just crumbled all momentum. its been covered to death, but... at least franklin can say. im here, im not going anywhere. i suck. but im still gonna be here. Same with tucky.
October 19th, 2022 at 12:38 PM ^
Tuck and Frames can say "I wanna still be here" but I'm not sure that's guaranteed
October 19th, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
CJ Carr.... I mean ND is a mess right now... they'll beat UNLV this week, then they'll lose three of their last four..... Plus, how the hell could he not want to run down the tunnel named after his Grandpa?
i mean he's 2024, but he might just have a change of heart and come home.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:12 AM ^
doubt it. freeman said theyre gona play Marshall much tighter next year. CJ believes.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:13 AM ^
It sounds like a no-brainer, but he doesn't want to be compared nor held to a standard he can't reach. It doesn't matter how good he is, he'll never reach whatever standard we put on him because of his grandpa. So I don't hold it against him for going somewhere else, but I do find it a touch odd because plenty of legacy's follow in Dad's footsteps and do quite well.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
I'm not so sure. Him deciding so early tells me that he really doesn't want to be at Michigan. Maybe he just wants to make a name for himself rather than be in his grandpa's shadow?
Also, he wasn't Michigan's priority for the class. All of their focus has been on Jaydn Davis and had already put more effort into other kids like Julian Sayin and the kid from St Francis. I'm guessing they didn't think of him as highly as the recruiting services (and his lackluster junior season at Saline is giving that some credence).
October 19th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
Yes. From everything I have seen Davis is the top priority for M at QB in ‘24. If he were to go elsewhere they might circle back. (FWIW UGA took a 2024 QB this week but now Clemson and Tennessee/LSU? are trying to get more involved with Davis ….from the free info I have seen.)
if Carr wanted to reclassify to 2023 though…
October 19th, 2022 at 10:43 AM ^
Sayin is soon to commit to LSU (supposedly) and Tennessee already has a top 10 overall player in the 2023 class which surely will be a deterrent.
M is looking good for Davis but who knows with recruiting.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:51 AM ^
We definitely have options in 2024 if the Davis recruitment goes south. Isaac Wilson, Zach's little brother, was just on campus and we almost always have a shot with St Frances kids, so Michael Van Buren could be an option as well and he was on campus in the spring
October 19th, 2022 at 11:27 AM ^
I would like to see us go after QB Brady Droegesh the 2023 Cinci commit. We need a 23 guy and he looks like big upside.
Hoping to see ND, MSU and PSU unravel their classes a bit.
I like Zach Wilson, not ahead of Jayden, but might take him over Carr.
I think his recruitment moves up Jayden and gets him in the class. Jayden is coming to the MSU you game. I would not be surprised to get a silent commit that weekend.
October 20th, 2022 at 6:51 AM ^
I'm always down to bring in one of the Van Buren boys. But only if he knows their gang sign
October 19th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
We don't need any LLLLosers from the Carr clan!
October 19th, 2022 at 10:45 AM ^
I'll be honest: I don't know what Carr is still so highly rated. He's very turnover prone against not the best competition and he's a borderline 5 star? Call me a salty homer because he went to ND, but I just don't see it
October 19th, 2022 at 11:06 AM ^
If Freeman doesn't have a great season next year.... you gotta believe he's gone. He took over a 2 loss team, narrow losses to #4 Cinci and #7 OK State.... He's not even going to be bowl eligible and its not like he took over a team that fired their coach because they were doing poorly. Dude is making $9 million a season to be Mel Tucker bad.....
October 19th, 2022 at 10:20 AM ^
QB, Davis was at the Tennessee - Bama game and had rave reviews about that. Seems to me, that our staff should not just count on him for the 2024 class either. At least not unless he commits and shuts down recruiting. Georgia seems out of the picture having just landed a 5*qb for 2024.
We shall see moving forward. But 2023 class does not have to have a qb with Orji being a sure RS, I believe. Between 23/24 classes we do need to close on a big timer and Davis is the most likely.
DT's, Oline, Lbers and athletes. get them!!! Definitely need to find more BigTime DT's to go with DE recruiting! Looking for Big Time oline, seriously 2 years in a row this oline is killing defenses! Guess we need the pay off in the draft to really haul in the 5*'s....
To sum up, every class you need to get the 25 best cf players at each position group you can! Bama, osu, clemson, georgia.. they do not feel comfortalbe that they got two fr that are going to be great dt's. They go get 2 more. Same with every position group. They land a 5* OT, they go after another in the same class. They got 2 5* OT's, 2 top 150 guards and top 150 Center, next year they are doing it again. Doesn't matter how many great players you landed or who is on the roster, go get next years class, compliment the year before's class if it's missing in a position group but build it's own class as well.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:26 AM ^
if Davis goes to UT when they already have a 5star QB in their '23 class its going to be a massive loss for UM on the heels of the Carr and Moore issues.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:32 AM ^
That's what I'm saying. I don't think he goes there, he's coming back to Michigan every time. But until he commits, it's a dog fight and no guarantee he comes.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:58 AM ^
Listening to Sam Webb, I think UM coaches want Davis to either commit or move on. They have started courting Isaac Wilson, Zach Wilsons brother. He doesnt have an offer yet, but he has visited a few times now.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:16 AM ^
Seems to me that they’re still okay with him checking around. His (Davis) plans were to commit sometime next year. Now, from what Webb was saying it sounds like he’s committing before years end which bodes well with UM. Couple that with multiple visits + the MSU night game he’s supposed to visit, and things look good. I also think it was sort of a strategy for them to bring Wilson in but not offer and showing Davis he’s still the guy. Can’t also help but think that with the guy committing to UGA this past weekend might be in the back of his mind thinking this might happen again. Still cautiously optimistic with him.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:53 AM ^
we can bring wilson in, but all indications are that he's not likely to leave Utah. Legacy and all seems to work well in other places for super high quality prospects, but not at UM!!! Grumble grumble.
Just because we had him, doesnt mean he's committing. he doesnt even have an offer. And again, we're treating our #2 like a #2. Sometimes I think the coaches should watch a beautiful mind. Everyone is after that #1 guy (or girl), but if you ignore him and go hard after #2, #2 feels like #1 and they love you for it.
We slow played carr for Moore, and both said no thanks. Treat them all like you want them and be happy with whoever decides to join. I don't think Wilson is gonna commit, but if he said, i'll commit tmrw, wouldn't we rather have him for sure than wait for Davis?
October 19th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
Recruiting on MgoBlog?
October 19th, 2022 at 10:35 AM ^
Hello recruits. We are the #3 team in the nation. We are among the five programs sending the most players to the NFL. We have outstanding academics. Our coaches and players are nice.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:46 AM ^
Hello Magnum: Sounds good. Pay me. Today. Not next year.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:47 AM ^
Seriously, there is nobody out there that is doing better at developing talent and getting the most out of their players. If you commit to a school that is not competing at a high level and not developing their players, what is the end-game? Just focus on NIL to get paid now and not try to get set up for success in the pros? I know HS and college kids are not known for long-term planning, but it is still kind of bizarre to me.
October 19th, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
speaking of which.....updated with active NFL players by school.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:54 AM ^
seems low. it feels like every NFL game i watch, its Alabama vs. OSU. With some random Central Michigan guy who michigan whiffed on who is now really good.
2 per team for each i guess is fair, but given that they get 3-10 guys drafted in the first round every year, that seems like a low hit rate! We're better! We do more with less!
October 19th, 2022 at 11:24 AM ^
2023
QB- Looks like Ronnie's brother will be a stop-gap QB/ATH before 5* Jadyn Davis. Would not be surprised if M went with a QB transfer in 2024 after JJ.
RB- 2 Commits, moving onto 2024 unless trying to flip Wisconsin commit 3* Jaquez Keyes
WR- Nyckoles Harbor 5* choosing between M, SCar and LSU. World-class HS athlete and Michigan's top target. Jaren Hamilton 4* visiting for MSU.
TE- 2 Commits, TE recruiting has never been an issue under Jim.
OL- Two 4* DJ Chester and Spencer Fano (who knows M's chances) visiting for MSU. Caleb Lomu and Tali Taala both 4* visited for PSU. Trying to flip TxTech commit 3* OG Nick Fattig. Nathan Efobi 3* OG crystal balled to Michigan.
DL- Best recruited position of this class. Kaden McDonald 4* DT announcing soon but not really looking like its Michigan.
LB- Michigan trying to flip Nebraska commit Hayden Moore 3* otherwise nothing else this year.
CB/S- Chris Peal, Aaron Gates and Jyaire Hill 4* all top targets. Peal looks to be Georgia, M trying to flip Gates from Florida and Hill has been a target forever, but is a smalltown IL kid and battling Illinois for him.
All in all, this feels like the 2018 class. A lot of 4-5 year program guys that fit inbetween two solid classes. It does seem the end of 2022 and the 2024 class are taking to Michigan's success better. That being said, this time last year Zeke Berry, Keon Sabb, Darrius Clemons, Mason Graham, Derrick Moore and Jimmy Rolder were not on the radar until late in the season and after beating Ohio State the flood gates opened. If there is a repeat of that again, who knows what recruits pop up before NSD.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:57 AM ^
Appreciate the summary - what exactly is happening that these guys keep coming out to visit and then seem to be LESS interested after they leave? Peal, McDonald, others.. i hear great things, they visit, then i hear.. but probably not coming here. trending away.
October 19th, 2022 at 5:38 PM ^
Linebacker is the new DT. What is going on?
October 19th, 2022 at 12:10 PM ^
Done deal that Corum won't be back next year for his senior season?
October 19th, 2022 at 12:18 PM ^
Barring a 7th/UDFA grade, which is unlikely given the year he is having, it does seem like a done deal. He’s probably reached his peak NFL appeal this year.