MBB: So Where Do We Get Ranked This Week?
Mates,
We all know that Michigan hoops has been on a tear lately, winning 7 of 8. I think they should've been ranked last week, but this week it seems like a certainty. We were the third team out last week (#28 in effect) and the AP poll had us behind sparty who we'd beaten and when sparty had lost a couple in a a row - go figure.
Anyway, Yesterday alone a boatload of ranked teams lost: 1,2,4,17,18,19,22, and 24. The bottom six as of today are Iowa, Butler, Houston, BYU (upset the Zags on the road), Arizona (why do they have a team), and ohio (YTO, why do they still have a team, but for different reasons). Of note in the B10 today you have PSU @ IU and Maryland @ ohio.
So today's question is this: While I would guess most of us feel that with Livers healthy we are on the cusp of a top 10 team, given the realities of how the rankings work, how high do you think we go this week?
Have a great day,
XM
February 23rd, 2020 at 7:34 AM ^
Does it really matter? We have 4 games and the B1G tourney. There is a lot of basketball left.
February 23rd, 2020 at 7:37 AM ^
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:20 AM ^
Actually, none of it matters, it's just an amusement. Sorry you were forced to click on the title. My guess is if you stay away from the computer or at least this blog you two will be safe.
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:17 AM ^
It's obviously a reasonable question for a sports blog and in no way did the tone of your post convey any anxiety or stress in regards to whether or not the ranking is "correct." Not sure why there are so many "who cares" posts.
Although rankings in February don't do things like help Jordan Poole hit a game-winning three to get to the sweet 16, I think they are relevant. They are trying to objectively capture the subjective influence of momentum in this case. Momentum is a real thing in sports. The longer/better you are ranked, the more you are talked about and analyzed as well. We all know there is subjectivity to seed lines and regional locations. Even if it's minimal, every fraction of a percentage point that is positive matters.
Also, contributing to momentum is confidence. I guarantee you being ranked helps the confidence of collegiate athletes.
I think they get ranked 22. They will finish the season ranked higher than that and no one in the country wants to play this team in March.
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:32 AM ^
I agree with this 100%. Well said. I can’t understand the crowd of people who like to respond “who cares rankings don’t matter” to these posts. We all get that there is a difference between the way that B-ball and football work with respect to rankings and post-season, but many of us are interested in the rankings. If nothing else, it’s nice to see our team ranked, may influence recruits’ perception of the program even if minimally and I am sure the players like being ranked.
February 23rd, 2020 at 10:44 AM ^
You're right. None of it matters. We we are all going to die and eventually the Earth will cease to exist. But I want my ranking!!!!
February 23rd, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
Eat at Arby's.
February 23rd, 2020 at 2:20 PM ^
I didn’t see anyone post a complaint about the thread. Some of us don’t care where we are ranked. Some care. Others are interested in knowing. I like to know where we are ranked but care more about the next game than the opinion of a sports writer or a coach who doesn’t watch our games. Like the post. We’ll have to wait until tomorrow. It will be nice to see them put us ahead of staee.
February 23rd, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
Is "bluegary" your burner account, Sydney Blart?
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:52 AM ^
I will tell you why it matters. Because if Michigan is ranked, ESPN will show their score on the top banner and it will make it easier for me to navigate to the box score. So yes, Michigan being ranked is all about it making things easier for me.
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
This guy gets it.
February 23rd, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
Make Michigan a favorite on your Fox/ESPN mobile app and they will always be on top.
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:40 AM ^
Win all four and we are probably a top 4 seed in the NCAA. Win 3 out of 4 and I think we are a 5 seed.
I think the rankings do matter somewhat, in the sense that it bolsters an argument for a higher seed.
February 23rd, 2020 at 11:57 AM ^
It's fun to speculate what we may come in at
February 23rd, 2020 at 1:18 PM ^
Yes it matters I prefer keep default sports app setting to display ranked team scores. When we’re in the top 25 I don’t have to toggle.
February 23rd, 2020 at 7:36 AM ^
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:14 AM ^
How is 4-0 not an option here?!
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:58 AM ^
How about 7-0 rolling into March Madness? I feel like with Livers healthy there is no ceiling to this team. Remember those early season beatdowns with a barely functional Franz? Lookout March.
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:46 AM ^
Healthy Livers, Wagner peaking, Teske far more aggressive on both ends, DDJs stunning, glorious braids. Nobody wants to face this team.
February 23rd, 2020 at 11:58 AM ^
SUBSCRIBE MEH
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
We DO know that you'll he here to tell us this. Every. Time.
February 23rd, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
You are so annoying.
February 23rd, 2020 at 7:48 AM ^
I think Marquette (lost twice) drops out along with Arizona. We have a good chance of jumping Houston and maybe WVU. Other than that we need OSU to lose today against Maryland and Butler to lose to Creighton. Given the unknowns, I’ll guess 23rd but I could see as high as 20.
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:52 AM ^
Houston lost yesterday as well
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:48 AM ^
Yeah thats why I said we’d jump them. It was a 1 point loss against a decent Memphis team on the road so I don’t think they drop far
February 23rd, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^
Oregon has made some sort of pact with the devil - amazing how many games they've won in improbable fashion (as we know first hand).
It seemed impossible for AZ to lose that game yesterday. They blew a million chances to put the game away, and their guy missed 2 FT's at the very end down a point.
Don't care about either team, but feel for that poor kid.
February 23rd, 2020 at 7:52 AM ^
I think we have a stronger resume than Houston and Arizona. osu lost once but they might still be slightly ahead of us with some big wins from nonconference over Villanova and Kentucky. I'd guess we end up 24th.
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:28 AM ^
Not sure I agree. We have wins over Gonzaga and Creighton. I’d say those stack up and we are sitting 2 games higher in the B1G standings. So I’ll say anywhere 18-21.
February 23rd, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^
I didn't look at too many teams in front of us so you're probably right. I might be undervaluing two big road wins in one week too.
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:00 AM ^
#1 in our hearts.
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:04 AM ^
Does the ranking matter? Genuine question. Does it affect the selection committee or factor into other advanced metrics? What is the point of it?
6.7.0February 23rd, 2020 at 8:18 AM ^
Not even a little bit. Midseason Basketball rankings are quite possibly the single most useless thing in college sports. Nobody uses them for anything-they only exist to show you what the media thinks of your team.
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:20 AM ^
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
Getting a top 4 seed in the football rankings makes your path to the CFP easier. Other than that, the regular season rankings are meaningless.
February 23rd, 2020 at 8:31 AM ^
It has no bearing on the selection committee nor any advanced metrics and there isn't really a point. For me, though, it's just nice seeing your team's scores during the Top 25 bottom line crawl on ESPN, FS1, etc., or when you open your favorite sports site/app, as they normally default to Top 25 first.
February 23rd, 2020 at 10:00 AM ^
The committee uses NET rankings when seeding. We are #23 after the Saturday games.
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings
UPDATE: After Sunday’s games we inched up to #22.
NET explained: https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/2018-08-22/net-rankings-what-know-about-college-basketballs-new-tool-help
February 23rd, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
If we're #23 in NET, shouldn't we be expected to be a 6 seed at this point?
February 23rd, 2020 at 11:46 AM ^
Yes, which is consistent with Lunardi having us as a 7 seed before yesterday's Quad 1 W.
February 23rd, 2020 at 1:48 PM ^
About the only nice thing I can think to say about the NET ranking is "at least it's better than RPI."
When you build a system modeled after KenPom / Torvik / etc., and those systems have Michigan in the top 12, #23 seems like a stretch, especially since they're not publishing any raw numbers, so there's no way to tell if Michigan is closer to the top 10 or number 50 (in NET, I mean).
I suspect NET is using the RPI-based SOS numbers rather heavily. Take Oregon; 21-7, with a H2H victory at Michigan. KenPom has them at #24 (31st schedule); Torvik has them at #30 (24th schedule). Compare them to Michigan: 18-9, KP #11 - 3rd schedule; Torvik #12 - 4th schedule. Oregon is 4-3 in Q1A games, 3-2 in Q1B, 4-2 in Q2, 6-0 in Q3, and 4-0 in Q4. Michigan is 5-4 in Q1A, 2-4 in Q1B, 4-1 in Q2, 2-0 in Q3, and 5-0 in Q4.
Yet, the NET gives Oregon a SOS of #3 (!!!!!) and Michigan #62 (!!).
No reasonable person could look at those two résumés and say that Oregon played a tougher schedule. However, I am convinced that this awful SOS metric is the primary reason that Oregon is #19 in NET and Michigan is #23. There's just no other way you could look at those results and conclude that Oregon is the better team, unless you're going by head-to-head, which you really shouldn't unless you want to put Michigan ahead of Gonzaga. :)
February 23rd, 2020 at 4:55 PM ^
I'm baffled how RPI SOS could count for anything.
Michigan is 53 in RPI SOS - that's absurd.
Apparently the only factors in calculating RPI SOS are winning % of opponents (2/3) and winning % of opponents' opponents (1/3).
Any rankings that significantly utilize RPI are also ridiculous - so if NET does use RPI SOS it's gonna be grossly inaccurate.
Just for kicks, I compared Michigan's schedule to St. Josephs'. Their SOS is 21 in RPI, we're 53. I chose St. Joe's because they're the first really bad team on RPI's SOS list.
What a joke! Using NET rankings, if you match Michigan's opponents vs. St. Joe's, all our 23 most difficult opponents will be tougher than their respective opponent. Only the bottom 8 are worse.
I watch a LOT of college hoops, and it's pretty clear the B1G is the best, deepest conference this year. Almost every conference game is against a good team - not to mention our strong (albeit top-heavy) OOC schedule. Louisville, Oregon and Creighton are all at or near the top of major conferences.
St. Joe's plays in a mediocre conference, and their OOC schedule was just fair. There's no way their schedule comes close to ours, let alone being ranked much higher.
It's a good thing RPI isn't used for tournament selection anymore. I hope NET - and the committee - ignore it completely.
February 23rd, 2020 at 9:49 AM ^
Can somebody tell me what this 6.7.0 business is about?
February 23rd, 2020 at 10:19 AM ^
I’m genuinely curious as well.
February 23rd, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
No idea. People ask me about it all the time on here. That 6.7.0 shit auto-posts with my comments like 80% of the time and I don't know why. I've complained to the mods but they've ignored me so it continues on, lol.
6.7.0February 23rd, 2020 at 11:18 AM ^
That’s crazy! I always thought there was some hidden meaning behind it as well.