Martindale hired as DC
February 9th, 2024 at 6:47 AM ^
This is a bad sign. Likely disastrous for Moore.
February 9th, 2024 at 6:59 AM ^
The guy mentored Mac and Minter in the defensive system that he created. Even if he's an inferior playcaller, which is likely given the meteoric rise of the other two, our defense isn't going to fall apart with schematic continuity and elite personnel all over the place. Frankly, it will probably remain elite this year. Also, he will probably go back to the NFL after a year or two.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:49 AM ^
Eh - don't feel too bad. Long time (forever long) defensive line coaches always make the worst coordinators and head coaches. See Hoke, Brady; Tomsula, Jim; Marinelli, Rod; It's the easiest position to coach so it doesn't translate well when moving up.
Only after years of crapping the bed at higher positions, do defensive line coaches actually make something of themselves.
Just cause you bought the Cullen hype, don't drag us all down with you
February 9th, 2024 at 8:57 AM ^
FFS...why?
he's essentially the architect of the scheme we use. It's a very complex defense that our players have put a lot of time into learning, and they do it well...it's relatively successful, seems if I recall correctly, that we may have even won a frickin NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP with it at some point.
He's a huge, very veteran presence on a team with some young coaches...as long as he and our young head coach get along well, that's a major plus. One would assume Moore wouldn't have chosen him if he thought the chemistry wouldn't be good.
Recruiting? just because he hasn't had to do it for 20 years doesn't mean he won't like it or be good at it. Even if he's not, not everyone on every staff can be an A+ recruiter, and if you are an NFL-minded defensive recuit, being coached by a big name NFL coach must have some allure.
February 9th, 2024 at 1:17 PM ^
This is a big name Hire for Sherrone. Things will be just fine, and maybe better. They sure as hell could have been worse.
February 9th, 2024 at 6:51 AM ^
Someone go check on SQ
February 9th, 2024 at 7:01 AM ^
looks like MK needs a hug, too.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:13 AM ^
I’m guessing the yips are back in his golf game.
February 9th, 2024 at 1:25 PM ^
Fact.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:00 AM ^
The wrap around shades, huge dip in his lip, fitted hats, receiver gloves and whatever that hairstyle is bring undeniable swagger to the position.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:10 AM ^
Coach Móore made a great hire; welcome Coach Martindale!
February 9th, 2024 at 7:12 AM ^
This board can be ridiculous sometimes. We just hired an NFL DC, who helped invent the system that we have run with great success over the past three years. And yet, many seem unhappy.
This is, of course, less than a month after we won the National Championship.
So many people seem to have their gears permanently set to 'mad' or 'unhappy.' Why don't we at least wait until we play a PRACTICE to get upset about a hire with a great resume?
Be mad if you want, I guess. This seems like a great start for Moore for outside hires in my book!
February 9th, 2024 at 7:36 AM ^
People are mad?? This is the internet, fergodsakes.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:16 AM ^
This board is ridiculous. Absolutely. But luckily at this point we have all the information we need to ignore the absurdity, whether is fire Harbaugh and "sad about Wink" it is never ending inane BS.
This board does some things really well, but the "hot takes" "feelings" and "opinions" here are about as sweet as "the fabulous sports babe"
February 9th, 2024 at 7:13 AM ^
Sigh..... completely underwhelmed with this one. With that said though, onward and if Moore is satisfied then gotta support the hire.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:38 AM ^
Who would have fully whelmed you?
February 9th, 2024 at 7:59 AM ^
Personally, only Jesse Minter would have fully whelmed me, but since that was never happening this will be fine.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:14 AM ^
Is the general assumption that Wink won’t be a good/active recruiter?
February 9th, 2024 at 7:14 AM ^
Pros:
He was good in 2020
Developed a system recent UM DCs have thrived with.
Cons:
Hasn't had a good defense since 2020
Doesnt recruit
Would rather be in the NFL but doesn't seem to have any options there
Hasn't coached in college in two decades
Neither of his past two employers wanted to retain his services.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:58 AM ^
Last statement (and certainly more) is definitely incorrect. If you had listened to Sam Webb, he had 3 top 10 defenses at Baltimore. 2020 changed a lot of things. Put someone in the right position with the right attitude and exceptional talent, which is undeniable, and LFG.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:03 AM ^
I did listen to Sam but I am also not incredibly naive.
You wanna call BLT a "mutual parting" be my guest but they obviously wanted to drop him for Mac. And Wink had an incredibly public falling out with Daboll in NY. It's fact that his last two teams didn't want to hold on to him. At some point ' it's not you it's me" means it actually is you.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:26 AM ^
Wink won a national championship at Western Kentucky working with Jack Harbaugh, and to a lesser extent John and Jim, who were helping Jack at the time.
The Harbaugh family has had success with Wink at numerous levels going all the way back to the HIlltopper days to Baltimore to Michigan and now to the transition to Moore.
Also, I read he left Baltimore because at 58 he wanted to try his hand at being a head coach so it was a mutual parting of ways.
This "ravens told him to pound sand" is total BS.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:31 AM ^
He did not become a HC so I dunno what you're talking about.
His D took a dive (maybe because of injury..maybe not) and they clearly wanted Mac back. The fact that their public comments were incredibly vanilla is meaningless.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:15 AM ^
Nice hire.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:15 AM ^
Excellent hire. Good mix of continuity and some new ideas to keep the defense fresh and Wink did a great job with the Giants last year with crap personnel. I think even now he’s regarded as maybe a cut below Fangio and McDonald among NFL coordinators; which is to say that he’s probably a top 10 DC in the country at all levels.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:50 AM ^
"Did a great job".....with Dexter Lawrence, Thibodeaux, Banks, McKinney, Ojalri, Okereke, Love, Jackson, Robinson....
February 9th, 2024 at 9:04 AM ^
Carl Banks? These other apparent household names you drop ... I looked up Julian Love (for those casuals out there that need a first name on these superstars) and he did not even appear to be on the team last year.
Beyond that, say he had top 10 stats at NY Giants last year ... would he possibly be looking at a gig as a DC for a top college program? Nope. Be happy when something good happens. maybe he won't work out but the continuity is important and he will attract some good coaches to fill in the gaps.
February 9th, 2024 at 9:13 AM ^
if you're coming here to talk about Wink and the Giants but have no idea who their 1st round pick was last year I dunno what to tell ya.
And yes, it def says something about the guy when its clear the NFL doesnt want him and he was also obviously not Moore's first or even second choice
February 9th, 2024 at 10:06 AM ^
Giants offense was terrible give Wink a strong running game hmmm Michigan to bleed the clock and then let’s see how his defense does.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:10 AM ^
Now do the Giants offensive rankings/turnovers/TOP since its a team game.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:30 AM ^
I’m not sure what people expected when you have to fill out a new staff in late January/early February. Usually championship teams have have minimal attrition; Michigan is outside that norm due to Harbaugh.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:32 AM ^
I really like this hire. I was very skeptical of the Cullen hype given he's been a d-line coach FOREVER and d-line is one of the easier positions to coach #1, and #2 there's so few d-line coaches who actually become successful head coaches, coordinators: see Brady Hoke, Jim Tomsula, Rod Marinelli
Pros (imo):
1. has long history of coordinating a defense which others did. Do not have to worry if can actually coordinate the whole thing.
2. players love this hire (per Sam Webb)
3. the defense, while *maybe* more blitz happy, is almost exactly the same as last year.
4. his blitz happy days should be behind him given the d-line he's inheriting. I sincerely think this will actually change his ways
5. NFL Coordinator which means he should be able to disguise and out-scheme all of these college folk, especially Mr. Day.
6. Hat style
7. Meme potential - Stone Cold level. If we beat Ohio State...watch out is all I'm saying
February 9th, 2024 at 7:37 AM ^
Do I think it's the absolute best-case scenario? No. But it's a fine hire. One thing I like about it in particular is the fact that Sherrone won't have to manage Martindale much and gives him a MASSIVELY experienced DC in his first-ever head coaching job.
This means he can give Martindale autonomy and learn FROM HIM about how to manage a defense on the job. To me, this is a sign that Moore wants to keep improving and is thinking about this in the long term.
A wealth of experience his first couple years will help him a) get established with the defense with a known quantity and b) make a better hire when Martindale leaves after a couple years having equipped Moore with a new set of tools to move forward.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:23 AM ^
This may be the best, most levelheaded take in this entire thread.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:48 AM ^
I think it's a great hire. Think about it. You have a 1st year, first time head coach that hasn't ever coached defense getting a long-time proven defensive mind that was a part of inventing the defense that they currently run. I anticipate that Wink will be a 1-2 year stop gap to help further develop the players and coaching staff under this system.
When Wink goes back to the NFL the existing staff can carry that system forward with the additional 1-2 years of training they just received.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:49 AM ^
I think this works. The discussion on TKA with the Round Table makes sense. He can come in for a year or two, work with Clink on calling plays, and then head back to the League. We get an experienced guy who can handle that side of the ball.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:53 AM ^
Don't think this is the end of the world like some do. And I still have some concerns with the rumors of his blitzy tendencies with 1 or 0 coverage behind it and that gives me Don Brown vibes in a very bad way. Sam mitigated some of that for me on the Roundtable yesterday though.
For me, the ultimate success of this hire all hinges on how well he can teach Clink to game plan and call plays in this scheme before he leaves. It seems fairly clear Clink is not ready to head a defense alone, but he's also willing to keep learning what he needs to learn and then take over down the road.
Lack of recruiting doesn't worry me, that's not why he's here. Like Brian said, as long as we have some dogs at the position coaching spots this will be fine. Sherrone has already shown he is putting more of an emphasis on recruiting so I am not worried about that.
February 9th, 2024 at 7:59 AM ^
This is a good hire for the DC, Wink’s experience is going to make the defensive staff better and he can develop and mentor Clink to take over sooner than later. It was vital to keep the Ravens defensive scheme in tact.
Congratulations to Coach Moore.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:00 AM ^
Seems like a pretty good hire. Only pause is the turmoil with Daboll in NY (hopefully he doesn’t do the same to Sherrone) and it seems like he’s more blitzball-y than Mac and Moore were. But maybe thatll be fine?
February 9th, 2024 at 8:06 AM ^
They brought up a good point on the Roundtable yesterday: did Wink blitz more in NY because he simply had to? Because he didn't have the pieces on DL to get to the QB like he did in Baltimore? I don't know for sure, but it made sense to consider that as a possibility.
Either way, as long as he's willing to adapt to the team he's playing against, I think this hire can potentially work over the next year or two. He'll have one of the best DLs in the country to work with. Certainly the best pair of DTs to work with, so there shouldn't be an immediate need to have to blitz all that much.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:02 AM ^
If Jim couldn’t tell Don Brown anything by the end, as they mentioned on the Roundtable, why wouldn’t the same thing happen here with a first-time head coach and a DC who just threw Daboll under the bus? I don’t know if Leonhard was ever considered, but if we’re gonna hire a questionable locker room guy, I’d much rather it have been him.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:02 AM ^
As long as the position coaches he brings in with him are ready, willing and able to recruit, then so be it. I'm sure he's not here to recruit and that's fine, but we can't have the entire defensive staff outside of Clink end up being guys who are essentially black holes for recruiting.
I can't imagine that this is more than a one year stopover, two tops, for Wink, but that's what we had for MacDonald and Minter and that's fine. As long as part of his agreed upon job description is to identify an understudy (who I assume will be Clink) and train him up over the next year or two to be ready to take over when Wink moves on, that can work.
I know everyone was really skeptical of this hire given his tenure in NY, his blitz-happiness and not really being willing to stray from that. But I wonder how much of that blitzing was done because he had to. The Giants defense is nowhere close to the Ravens defense, where he undoubtedly did not have to blitz anywhere near as often because he could trust the DL to generate pressure.
Hoping its the same at Michigan. Hoping Wink doesn't feel the need to bring the heat all that often because he has the best pair of DTs in the country starting for him, and an ascending potential All-American in Derrick Moore.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:08 AM ^
If Wink can help Clink develop the skills to move to the DC role while bringing in the consistency of Macdonald / Minter to assess opposing offenses - I'm all for it.
It reminds me of a quote from "Skyfall" - when Bond meets his new Quartermaster.
"Age is no guarantee of efficiency," the quartermaster says.
"And youth is no guarantee of innovation," Bond replies.
It's an art to blend youth and experience. IMO, Michigan's been very fortunate to have had Macdonald and Minter over the past three seasons. There are benefits to youth - and one of them is relating to the players. Experience has its advantages too.
Hoping it all works out - and the D continues to "do its thing" - which, as a fan - has been very enjoyable to watch.
Go Blue!
February 9th, 2024 at 8:14 AM ^
I watched a Lions game in 1991 and the next day bumped into a classmate in between the Union and West Quad. I forget his name, but he was a nice guy. We started chatting about the game and really got into giving our analysis. At one point I think we both realized that we were just repeating everything that the announcers said during the broadcast. There wasn't an original thought between us. We were just repeating things other people had said. This conversation was pivotal to me because for the first time I realized that a lot of people, myself included, don't actually think. They just repeat what other people have said.
I'm not trying to knock anyone as I'm guilty of it too, but I listened to Sam Webb's analysis of Martindale two days ago and listened to the Roundtable yesterday. Most of the hot takes here are repeats of those. I think it is fine as it leads to our embracing Wink. Here is my regurgitation of that information:
1. His real name is Don. Wink is a nickname inspired by the game show host.
2. Wink helped originate the Amoeba defense.
3. McDonald and Minter learned it from Wink.
4. Wink will probably want to go back to the NFL in a year or two.
5. Wink is 60 and will probably not be a good recruiter. Hopefully he doesn't bring in other NFL guys who are also bad recruiters.
6. Roundtable liked the idea of Wink mentoring other coaches and the idea of someone learning the system and taking over when Wink leaves. Clink is the natural candidate for that.
7. Ravens parting of ways was amical. NYG parting of ways might have been on the NYG. There was some concern over if he's a jerk who won't respect the chain of command or not.
I really don't know anything about Martindale, but his bona fides seem legit. If we can get great recruiters for DL and LBs our defense will be in good hands. (This is me repeating what other people have said.)
Hello Wink and Go Blue!
February 9th, 2024 at 8:22 AM ^
One of my co-workers is from NY and is a lifelong Giants fan. He was telling me that Wink leaving the Giant was due to Daboll being impossible to work with. By all accounts players loved Wink.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:26 AM ^
yeah if you stalk X and random giants boards it seems the players really liked him but that head coach is an impossible douche rocket out there. For me, it's the combination of keeping the train going, players buying in, and him and Sherrone being locked in. Those three things I believe will make this a success and it sounds like Sherrone put a premium on making sure him and Wink jived.
February 9th, 2024 at 8:47 AM ^
I think it's funny how coaches are immediately categorized as good or bad recruiters. I think it's mainly based on their perceived ability to play video games with kids. I personally think a young coach can be worse than an old coach. Someone like Cullen with multiple DUIs is probably the real red flag and not the type of person you want to put in front of a recruit's parents.
February 9th, 2024 at 10:07 AM ^
I mean Sark was fired for being an out of control alcoholic by USC 8 years ago. Texas seems to be doing fine. But I agree that it wouldn't sit well with some parents.
February 9th, 2024 at 11:42 AM ^
It certainly appears that Sark is dealing with whatever those issues are/were. Cullen seems to have done the same as those were years ago. While it might be a problem for some players and parents, I think both of these guys have a story to tell about overcoming adversity, personal growth and getting help. I hope that would resonate with more than it turns away.
February 9th, 2024 at 9:19 PM ^
Why does everybody just assume that there will be an NFL spot open in two years for a 62 year old assistant coach that is not even in the league? I get that it might be his plan, but will it be the NFL's plan in two years?
If he would rather have an NFL job now, but there isn't enough interest in him, why would there be more interest in him after two years out of the league?
He may wind up here longer than we think.