[LOCKED?] OT: Saints, Tulane to Require Proof of Vaccination for Fans

Submitted by Dizzy on August 15th, 2021 at 5:24 PM

Per Sports Illustrated:

"The city of New Orleans is requiring fans to provide proof of COVID-19 vaccination or a negative PCR test taken within 72 hours in order to attend games at the Caesars Superdome and Yulman Stadium."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/12/new-orleans-saints-tulane-require-fans-vaccine-covid-19-negative-test-home-games

 

Hadn't seen this on the board yet, but I thought it might be worth mentioning. I imagine other organizations will be considering this option in the coming days.

Curious what Michigan will do. For those willing to discuss, please be civil.

[edit @ 3:15pm: I'm keeping this thread on the board but this decision is subject to change at any time if the discussion goes too far off the rails.  Already several posts were removed by other mod(s) early today for violating MGoBoard guidelines and I have removed one post, edited another, and issued one warning-rob f]

[Edit @8pm: Locking this now, it's run it's course]

MGoBoard
#COVID-19

SagNasty

August 15th, 2021 at 5:29 PM ^

Great idea! I personally hope Michigan does this. My 11 year old is not eligible until September. Would feel safer taking her to games if I knew the majority of people around us are vaccinated. 

Joined: 06/22/2011

MGoPoints: 931

Michfan777

August 15th, 2021 at 5:36 PM ^

Works for me. Good for the Saints and Tulane. To participate in society, you need to contribute to society.

COVID anti-vax people are currently a net negative on society, with their selfish decisions creating all kinds of problems for people.

Also, I wonder how long this thread remains. 

Joined: 10/10/2018

MGoPoints: 24520

teldar

August 15th, 2021 at 5:54 PM ^

Did you know that virus protection in terms of infection rate is as low as 45% for one of the vaccines? I don't remember which and don't really care. We all had the covid and my wife and I were vaccinated. My level of concern is non-existant. But I know enough to understand that transmission rates are still high, regardless of vaccination status. Get the vaccine for yourself. Don't expect no viral transmission from vaccinated people to vaccinated people. It's happening. 

 

 

Joined: 07/14/2009

MGoPoints: 8230

outsidethebox

August 16th, 2021 at 7:06 AM ^

The level of willful ignorance that persists is so stunningly unbelievable. Between that and having no educational background from which to draw an informed conclusion in this regard...very sad. Just read the informed and thoughtful offerings of Sopwith...and find some character. 

Joined: 01/23/2017

MGoPoints: 18816

Firstbase

August 16th, 2021 at 8:54 AM ^

If there was consensus among many renowned physicians regarding the vaccinations the decision would be easy. Fact is, there is no consensus. Many renowned physicians are advising against these vaccines as they are not yet proven to be either efficacious or safe and exhibit a disturbing number of adverse reactions and reported deaths. 

Joined: 09/30/2009

MGoPoints: 9411

crom80

August 16th, 2021 at 11:14 AM ^

Peter McCullough: not a virologist. advocated for early treatment including hydroxychloroquine. being sued  for using old baylor affiliation while dishing covid vaccine falsehoods. 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/9393

 

Jane Ruby: not a virologist, not even an MD doctor, is a health economist. 

https://books.google.com/books/about/A_Sea_of_New_Media.html?id=N7h-swEACAAJ&source=kp_author_description

 

Vladimir "Zev" Zelenko: not a virologist. major proponent of the use of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin to treat covid. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/doctor-zelenko-coronavirus-drugs.html

 

Ben Edwards: not a virologist. some MD who started a relegious+health facility offering pseudoscientific services like 'ozone treatment'.

https://medical.veritashealthycommunity.com/dr-ben-edwards/ 

 

Robert Malone: not a virologist but probably the only one on the list who has any authentic expertise in the area of mRNA as a therapeutic modality. became a fringe voice against general access of covid vaccine to general public. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

 

Jim Meehan: not a virologist, is an ophthalmologist. been told by a judge 'you are not an expert regarding covid'

https://www.wshu.org/post/anti-science-expert-witnesses-deemed-unsuitable-connecticut-mask-trial#stream/0

 

None of the people listed are a virologist. only Malone comes remotely close as an expert of mRNA vaccines which that itself can be debated.

Joined: 04/13/2016

MGoPoints: 3630

robpollard

August 16th, 2021 at 11:56 AM ^

That list of "experts", my goodness...

"(Judge) Moukawsher also refused to accept as an expert Dr. James Meehan Jr., an ophthalmologist from Oklahoma. The state also objected to his marketing and profit from vitamin sales as an alternative to face masks.

Moukawsher said it was not Meehan’s beliefs that disqualified him, it was his professional background. The judge said the group could have sought the testimony of any of the 12,000 members of the Infectious Diseases Society of America but instead chose a doctor whose specialty was in eye diseases and vision problems."

https://www.ctpost.com/news/coronavirus/article/Judge-rejects-doctors-testimony-in-student-15607158.php

Joined: 06/03/2009

MGoPoints: 13966

blue in dc

August 16th, 2021 at 10:31 AM ^

It would be wonderful to see you cite any actual information to back up your claims.   Reported potentially linked deaths are under 0.002%   A key word there is potentially linked.    With over 335 million shots given, one would expect some people to die shortly after vaccination completely unrelated to the vaccine, so in all likelihood that number is much lower.

There will never be onw hundred percent consensus with experts.    But for many issues, like vaccines and climate change, the number of “experts”, with contrary opinions is small and there is plenty of data that a non-expert can look at and understand why the large majority of experts do in fact agree.  
 

it would be fascinating to see more about this “disturbing number of adverse reactions and reported deaths” and a comparison with the “disturbing number of adverse reactions and reported deaths”  related to covid.
 

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

carolina blue

August 15th, 2021 at 6:05 PM ^

Disagree. Who, exactly, are they creating a problem for?  (I am vaxxed, btw) In the United States there’s no real justification to require masks or vaccinations except for places like nursing homes, hospitals, or other similar places with known vulnerable people. Everyone who wishes to get the vaccine has had the opportunity to get it for free for several months. If you decide not to get the vaccine you are risking your own health but you’re not risking mine nor anyone else’s. I have yet to hear a coherent argument for such requirements. People are allowed to perform their own risk assessments. It’s also important to note that it is still in Emergency Use Authorization only. People can easily come to a very rational decision not to get the shot. 

Joined: 02/12/2014

MGoPoints: 30259

carolina blue

August 15th, 2021 at 6:36 PM ^

What if I make a rational decision, based on my risk factors, not to get the vaccine? Why am I not capable of thinking that, due to the fact that this vaccine is not fully approved, that we don’t know it’s long term effects, and that I’m in an extremely low risk group for getting seriously ill/dying, I don’t want to get one.

What if I’ve already had covid? Why would I need a vaccine then? 
you can name call all you want and call people selfish. At the end of the day, They have the ability to make a rational health decision. It’s their health. And if “maybe you’ll take up a hospital bed” is your best argument you’re going to have to do better. It’s just not convincing. You can’t legislate away behavior. People don’t like being forced, especially when they can rationally decide that it’s not in their best interest to do that thing. 

Joined: 02/12/2014

MGoPoints: 30259

SagNasty

August 15th, 2021 at 6:57 PM ^

Ha!

You also don’t know the long term effects of Covid. You may be low risk but you could catch Covid and be around some who is high risk and spread it to them. The vaccine is more effective at preventing you from catching Covid than any natural immunity you have from already having Covid. Taking up a hospital bed is very convincing once you consider that if you had been vaccinated you most likely would not need that hospital bed. 
 

I can’t believe people still do not understand simple things after a year and a half of this pandemic. 

Joined: 06/22/2011

MGoPoints: 931

blue in dc

August 16th, 2021 at 11:41 AM ^

Stellar argument.   I think you are making many others point for us with that reply.   You can muddy the waters citing a few crackpots, but have zero real evidence to back up your assertions.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

rob f

August 15th, 2021 at 7:27 PM ^

You are failing to take into account that kids under 12 aren't yet eligible to be vaccinated anywhere in the U.S.

You are also failing take into account the millions of vaccine-hesitant who are waiting for full FDA approval of vaccines before getting vaxxed and are trying to protect themselves in the meantime. 

You are failing to take into account that there's a much higher risk of spread and mutation from the unvaccinated.

You are failing to take into account the danger to the immunocompromised as the virus continues to be spread.

And there's plenty of scientific evidence that having had covid IS NOT as protective as the vax.  

Venues declaring health and safety policies and protocols has nothing to do with "legislating away behavior". Their venue, their right to make the rules.

And lastly, how is it a "rational decision" to put others at risk while potentially endangering others? That's not "freedom"; that's selfishness and worse.

Freedom doesn't come without the price of civic responsibility. Those who can get vaxxed but choose not to have made their choice and should accept the inherent limitations that come with that choice. 

Joined: 11/11/2010

MGoPoints: 194591

rice4114

August 16th, 2021 at 12:49 AM ^

My friend thought just like you. He is in ICU in a hospital bed right now and its touch and go. He didnt want to be vaccinated. Listen if people can call people that commit suicide selfish then you can fall into that category. Try telling us you arent going to put on a seatbelt, tell us you arent going to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle tell us you arent going to where a hard hat on a construction site. There is a less than 1% chance anything will happen to you. Crazy thing is people think thise are good numbers. I wish my friend wasnt driven to his hospital bed by political beliefs. I wish they ended at fiscal policies and things that didnt lead to life and death situations. 

Joined: 08/26/2010

MGoPoints: 47270

Carpetbagger

August 16th, 2021 at 10:07 AM ^

I really hate these "my friend/family member" posts. First off, I assume about 50% are bunk. Second, they prove nothing.

I know at least a dozen people who have had the Covid with symptoms and in only 1 case was one hospitalized for a short time. 1 person I know right now has the Covid that is having a tough time with it. She is also 70 and vaccinated. Add another dozen people who have had asymptomatic positive tests and another dozen who probably had the Covid but never got tested as it was mild.

What should I take from this? That getting vaccinated is bad? Don't be ridiculous. But from my experiences, I could assume it's a big nothing couldn't I?

Joined: 12/31/2010

MGoPoints: 6563

TIMMMAAY

August 16th, 2021 at 5:14 PM ^

Cool. You doubt them, so they're bunk. Cool. 

I lost two friends to covid-19. Two. One was a fairly close friend, the other more just an associate, but I liked him. These are real human beings, with real families that relied on them. They're dead now. No longer alive, and their families will have to put the pieces together to make things work going forward. Both happened before vaccines were widely available, but that shouldn't lessen my point. Masks work, if worn. Vaccines work even better. This is an objective truth, that you could easily verify on your own. But somehow... you don't. I have to believe that is mostly due to the "news" that you consume, and that's a fucking travesty, because it is endemic in our society. 

Blind leading the blind. The loudest, most uneducated voices are the ones that get parroted the most, for some insane reason. Nearly two years in, and I'm still stunned by people who think like you do almost every single day. 

I genuinely wonder what it will take, if something of this magnitude can't get people to wake up. 

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 56284

mooseman

August 15th, 2021 at 6:38 PM ^

There are a lot of things in this world where I'm not allowed "to do my own risk assessment." A lot of them occur in the realm of public health. I can't just empty my septic waste untreated into the stream that runs through my property or burn tires in my back yard no matter what my own personal risk assessment might be.

I don't understand what is so difficult about this. It really isn't just about your own health. First of all, the people consuming resources and straining hospitals right now are far and away the unvaccinated. That effects more than just your health. Secondly, the larger the pool of unvaccinated the more likely we are to get variants going forward and the more likely that even the vaccinated be exposed and will spread disease even when they have minimal to no symptoms.

This whole thing is like Sideshow Bob stepping repeatedly on a rake.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 35498

outsidethebox

August 16th, 2021 at 7:17 AM ^

It's both. Our family's cooked dressing recipe, which is authentically Amish-my mother was a little Amish girl, is to die for. 

Edit-the recipe:

8-10 potatoes boiled and shredded                                                                                                        8 hardboiled  eggs shredded                                                                                                                  1 onion-chopped                                                                                                                                   2 ribs of celery-chopped                                                                                                                       salt and pepper to taste

Cook together:

1/2 cup sugar                                                                                                                                          1 tsp celery seed                                                                                                                                     2 T cornstarch                                                                                                                                       1/2 cup white vinegar                                                                                                                             1/2 cup milk                                                                                                                                            2 T yellow mustard

Cook over medium heat, stirring frequently until thickened then remove from heat and stir in 2-3 cups of (real!) mayonnaise and 1 cup of sweet pickle relish.  Stir dressing and potatoes together.

Joined: 01/23/2017

MGoPoints: 18816

Carpetbagger

August 16th, 2021 at 9:32 AM ^

Given the school district I live in didn't even have a mask mandate last year and the outcomes didn't appear to be any different then the district one county over that did. I agree, the lack of mandates will work out fine.

Especially given Covid has been less dangerous (so far) to the pediatric population than the seasonal Flu.

Joined: 12/31/2010

MGoPoints: 6563