If we were to make a change, whose offensive system in college football would you like to see us emulate?
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:40 AM ^
That's insane. An in-person "encounter" would cost less with most porn stars. I honestly don't understand how that industry still makes money. Like half the internet is free / amateur porn.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:11 AM ^
You’d be amazed with how many simps exist
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
I’m with Hatter. Nobody should pay for porn. A 60 second clip is enough for the average guy and every porn movie ends the same so it’s not like you have to watch the whole thing to understand the plot.
January 3rd, 2019 at 12:51 PM ^
That is a really funny post.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:26 AM ^
The one where we score more than the other team.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:27 AM ^
1980 Michigan
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:29 AM ^
The more important question here is, do you think Jim Harbaugh will allow his offense to change from what it is? Or, is he too stubborn to make that change?
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
I'm hoping it is not the latter, but fear it might be.
We have such amazing WR talent on this team, but the TEs gets too many targets relative to our amazing WRs.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:44 AM ^
It's a legit question.
Most of us look at it as "Everybody else is changing, we need to adapt and keep up."
But Jim Harbaugh is quite an obstinate and contrarian dude. He may be looking at it as "If everyone else is going zone read spread and air raid, I'm going to hit them with old pro-style manball that they never see."
It's Jim Harbaugh. You are never sure what he's thinking. If he makes a change to respond to what everybody else is doing, it's just as likely to be to Army triple option as it is to air raid.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:47 AM ^
it's just as likely to be to Army triple option
Just like Ricky Leach! Old school, coach! :-)
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:57 AM ^
If he makes a change to respond to what everybody else is doing, then he's not a good coach. You are what you are and know how to do.
Ohio State isn't evolving--Urban Meyer has been a spread coach all along. He has been doing this since Bowling Green.
There are more coaches going spread because it (in my limited knowledge) limits mistakes--short passes and more runs, but the runs I think, are designed to get the defense to commit (RPO) to something, then you read off that. The passing routes are shorter, quicker, so they don't take a lot of time, limiting pass pro time (as well as holding calls, I'd guess).
Curiously, when Michigan went to that style, it seemed to work--even saw it with McCaffrey. But as with anything Harbaugh does, the offense reverts to pro-style, or whatever it is he's running.
I'm a believer in recruit the personnel, coach 'em, get good at your thing, and you'll win. Harbaugh seems to be caught in a cycle of rotating QB's, players leaving early, graduation, and injuries. It would be nice to see what the offense could do with returning players--maybe next year??
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:44 AM ^
I think it is highly likely that Harbaugh thought he would have a much stronger offensive line by this point. I think that his answer to "air raid" (I don't think he believes he will be able to recruit that style) is/was going to be really strong offensive lines that can run over you and possess the ball for a lot of the game.
There are two problems, 1) the offensive line has not developed as quickly as he thought plus the Newsome injury and a couple of painful recruiting misses, and 2) Brown's defensive scheme is actually a complete mismatch for the offense scheme that Harbaugh wants to run.
Brown's defense has two different settings, "bludgeon opponent without mercy" and "huge debilitating breakdown." The setting that Harbaugh's offense needs on defense is " don't let anything behind you and force a field goal." I have a strong suspicion that despite how explosive the defense has shown it can be, that Brown and Harbaugh are not on the same page at this point in time.
January 3rd, 2019 at 4:01 PM ^
This. Everything about this.
Another big issue with Brown's scheme compared to Harbaugh's offense IMO is that it's taken some good offensive weapons away from Harbaugh. Because Brown's D is so predicated on speed and an ability to match with an opponent's skill players, our offense is losing a lot of potentially talented skill players who they could really use (Barrett, Velazquez, etc.) to the defensive side of the ball. That's why you see guys like Ambry and Jabrill get used on offense--because that's where we really need that speed, but most of those guys are already playing D so we lost out.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:03 AM ^
Your remember UM running any pistol before Shea arrived?
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:30 AM ^
Omg, where have you been??? There is plenty of evidence that a guy who helped lead a jauggernaut offense who’s s+p had to be immaculate and he can’t get back to Michigan fast enough for some. The team he helped reach most of their lofty goals went a grand total of 3-9 and most of their fans might even like our color scheme better than theirs. However, 10-3 was a huge disappointment(I agree) and of course the end of the year is the ONLY thing that matters. So, this is sort of an easy one. There’s only one answer and that would be; We should try to emulate the fighting BRUINS OF UCLA!!!! Lol
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^
Either Oklahoma's or Alabama's. Both are opened up but do try to balance it more than, say, WSU.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
I would make a guess, nothing more than that, that Harbaugh would favor Alabama's style just because they seem to do more running. But I have watched maybe 1 quarter of both Oklahoma and Alabama this year so I have 0 actual idea.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:30 AM ^
I thought Locksley called an excellent game in the CFP against Oklahoma.
Alabama scored 45 to win . . . and needed to.
It will be interesting to see how he does at Maryland without Alabama-level players. I still think his offense will do well, and Maryland does have some decent players on that side of the ball and is in a great recruiting area. Haskins is from there, he may have stayed at Maryland if Locksley was there at the time.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
Did they?
I think you said this previously, but it doesn't jibe with (I believe) your stance on Michigan's offense vs. Ohio State.
Oklahoma was down 28-0, 31-10 and 38-20 at various points. They never pulled any closer than 2 scores. Oklahoma never really scored when it mattered according to the logic of most of the board right?
TBH, Oklahoma's success is really just a product of the Big 12. They got pantsed in 2015 against Clemson, they scored 7 points in the 2nd half in 2017 vs. Georiga and they were down 28-0 nothing before getting on the board this year against Alabama.
If they were in the Big 10 or SEC, they'd be Penn State, Michigan or LSU.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:41 AM ^
Alabama took advantage of 3 key stops very early in the game and scored TDs while Oklahoma was still dazed in the spotlights. They were able to ride that the rest of the game.
Oklahoma could never catch up, but neither could Alabama pull away. Oklahoma scored on every single drive in the second half.
It was a shootout that Alabama won because they took advantage of their small handful of "break-serve" opportunities.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
Or, Alabama went up 28-0 and took their foot off the gas and Oklahoma made it slightly more respectable while never managing to get within 2 scores.
By the way, go look at Oklahoma's bowl record. For all the talk of how great their offense is, once they face an elite team they usually whither away and die.
2003: 14 points against LSU
2004: 19 points against USC
2005: 17 points against Oregon
2006: 28 points in regulation against Boise, (scored 35, 7 came on a pick-six)
2007: 28 points against WVU, 13 of which game in the 4th quarter where they were down 34-15 and lost 48-28
2008: 14 points against Florida
2009: 31 points against 8-5 Stanford
2010: 48 points against Connecticut (lol)
2011: 31 points against 7-6 Iowa
2012: 13 points against Texas A&M
2013: 45 points against Alabama - the crown jewel of Oklahoma's performances that came against an Alabama team that definitely was in a "we got boned out of the playoff" mood. Still, 45 points against Bama is 45 points against Bama.
2014: 6 points against Clemson
2015: 17 points against Clemson
2016: 35 points against Auburn (legit)
2017: 38 points against Georgia in regulation (scored 45, but 7 came off a pick 6), scored only 7 points in the 2nd half.
2018: 34 points against Alabama after being down 28-0, 31-10 and 38-20 entering the 4th quarter.
There's about 2.5-3 impressive games in there depending on how much mileage you want to give them for the 2013 Alabama game where Alabama missed the playoff on a missed field goal return touchdown.
January 3rd, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^
Saban said that Alabama did not take their foot off the gas. He was legitimately worried about Oklahoma's offense once they got on track, as they knew he would.
In any case, all my posts on this are not to pimp Oklahoma's offense, but to point out the Alabama won because they took advantage of just a handful of defensive stops and scored offensive TDs while the sun was shining. They knew they would have to score a lot of points and they did.
As legitimately concerned as they were with Oklahoma's offense, their response was not to just play ball control keep-away.
January 3rd, 2019 at 1:15 PM ^
Yeah, okay, like he's going to say "Yeah, after it was 28-0 we decided to ease up a bit". No coach on earth has ever said that.
Alabama won because Oklahoma is an overrated Big 12 team that routinely loses whenever they have to play legit opponents because what they do on offense doesn't work as well. Much like Michigan got exposed on defense when they had to play their first real offense this year, Oklahoma got exposed when they had to face their first real defense. They were down 18 late in the 4th and scored a TD after an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty erased a 3rd and 20 to make things look better.
And of course it looks like they weren't trying to play keep-away: Who has Oklahoma's defense stopped all year? You think they were going to do it against Alabama?? They gave up at least 27 points in 9 of their last 10 games. Prior to the rematch with Texas, they'd given up 40+ in the four before it.
January 3rd, 2019 at 3:40 PM ^
Coincidentally all those offensive outputs are better than 10 points against a trash Florida team.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:08 AM ^
If you listen to Mike Leach talk about balance you might have a different take. He views balance as balancing out the number of targets/touches each guy is getting on offense. Balance isn't determined by run/pass so much as balancing where you are going with the ball that keeps the opponent on it's toe's.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
Right, the balance shouldn't be run/pass, it should be a balance between Evans/DPJ/Collins/Black/Eubanks/Martin ,etc.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:34 AM ^
Clemson. I think our talent is somewhat like theirs. Especially on the o-line
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
I agree with a Clemson, JH will never spread it out like the big12. In the Clemson offense JH can still play a fullback and/or TE as he likes to do. Spread the field add some tempo, and still maintain his “ball control” offense.
This gives a minimum of 2 wideouts, mostly 3, no more 3 TE/FB sets (please and thank you). DPJ, Nico and Tarik at the same time all the time, YES PLEASE! Add Evans/Charbonnet/both and Mason/ name a TE, that’s as much skill (arguably more) than Clemson has on the field.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:35 AM ^
I think any team that uses their talent to most of its potential is a good start. A team that trusts its WR to make the plays necessary to win football games is another requirement IMO.
Alabama is obviously the team everyone wants to be, but teams like Oklahoma, Texas, Miss St., Utah St., and maybe Wash St. are good starts. Idk, these are just opinions of teams who have solid offenses.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
Maybe Miss. State with Mullen. I thought they'd maintain some success this year because of Moorhead, but their offense was tough to watch at times. I assume he'll fix things quickly judging by his performance at PSU. All the other teams you listed have great offensive minds and would be great to emulate. Would include OSU and Okie State. Memphis usually has a good offenses, though I haven't watched them a ton.
Realistically, I see Harbaugh opting for an offense more in the mold of Georgia, which isn't a bad thing.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:41 AM ^
MSU lacks the talent to be able to do what Moorehead wants, but there were times in which their offense looked great.
OSU would be nice, but fuck em. Okie St. could be thrown in with OU, Texas, Texas Tech, WVU, etc. The B12 is what a lot of teams are chasing.
Harbaugh needs to learn clock management and how to speed his offense up. They take too long to get to the line and even longer after they get to the line. Tempo needs to be added.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:28 AM ^
Tempo is hindered by huddling. As I was watching random bowl games I couldn’t help but notice the only teams I saw consistently huddling we’re Iowa, MSU and UM... and none scored 30. I’m sure there are others that huddle, but every top 10 team (except UM) uses a “muddle huddle” or hurry up and is set with 20+ seconds left. As a matter of fact looking at the top 25 I don’t see a team that consistently huddles...
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:35 AM ^
Good question. The scheme has to fit the players collective skill set, too. Plus, as we frequently saw under RichRod, if you use a fast-paced spread offense and score too quickly, the defense doesn't have time to recuperate and you end up with basketball scores on turf.
As with any system, it comes down to individual players and how they execute as a unit. Ideally, I'd like to see a more hard-to-predict offense that tends toward longer, sustained drives using effective run/pass mix. Those 5-7 minute drives demoralize opposing defenses.
I'm certainly no expert, but I think this year's biggest problem was two-fold: 1. Not getting our uber-talented wideouts enough touches with quick hitches and slants, and 2. Being too damned predictable with our play calling vis-a-vis our formations. If effing Indiana and OSU can get their wideouts and slot receivers one-on-one against linebackers, why can't we?
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^
"as we frequently saw under RichRod, if you use a fast-paced spread offense and score too quickly, the defense doesn't have time to recuperate"
Did we see that? I don't think that's a fair assessment to say that the defense couldn't recuperate. Those defenses were getting blown off the field from the first snap.
January 3rd, 2019 at 2:14 PM ^
If the defense forces a three and out, they won't be tired.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:35 AM ^
Air Raid in the form of Oklahoma or Ohio State (2018 only).
Spread the field, get the ball to your playmakers in space, use the QBs legs to keep the defense honest but not as the main threat (like OSU did with Barrett).
Overall, I think the offense we have now would be fine if we did more of the things we did in 2016 - motions, new formations, frequent deep shots, screens on obvious run downs, etc. Not sure what changed (other than Pep vs. Fisch), but the 2016 offense had a chance to be fantastic before Speight got hurt. Even low-scoring games against Wisconsin and Iowa were well called, but Speight couldn't hit the open deep shots.
Thats the offense I want to see because I think if we replace Smith/Isaac/Johnson/Evans with Evans/Turner/Charbonnet, Speight with Patterson, and Darboh/Chesson/Butt with DPJ/Black/Collins/Martin then we would have a great offense. Sprinkle in a Warriner OLine vs a Drevno one and it would be hard to think our offense would score a ton of points.
Which makes this year all the more frustrating because there was so much potential for such a fantastic offense.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:37 AM ^
Whatever we do - I love having a quarterback who we demand must be able to stand in the pocket and be accurate and strong in their passing game, but at least has some "wheels" to be dangerous as part of the running game and when breaking the pocket. Having the threat of the QB to run at any time adds another dimension to the offense.
We seem to be going well in that direction recently - Shea, Dylan McCaffrey and Joe Milton all seem to possess these qualities.
Would be great to open up more like Oklahoma, if we can get Shea and what should be a top notch, relatively experienced receiver core (DPJ, Collins, and Black) cooking...
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:03 AM ^
I was going to post these thoughts, but will just agree with yours. However, I think our QBs look more like a Tua than a Kyler Murray and would like to see us go more 'Bama style (crazy, huh?) It all comes down to getting an OL than can handle both jobs - protect and plow. Are we getting there? Jury is still out.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
Jim Harbaugh 2015-2016
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:42 AM ^
I’d like a situational offense. These dogmatic philosophies don’t make sense. The offense needs to be whatever it needs to be to score more points against a particular opponent.
Sometimes you run it down their throat. Sometimes you air it out.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:16 AM ^
That’s brilliant
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:32 AM ^
In this line:
Have a tempo package. Have something (even if its only for Ohio State), that you can bust out that will throw off the defense. Be slow and deliberate all year, but have it ready. Want to call plays by committee using up the play clock? Great, most of the time that's fine. But there should be a set of plays you are ready to choose from that one guy calls where you aren't taking 25-30 seconds off the play clock.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
I mean that's a great thing on paper, but in practice you can't be all things or you won't be good enough to do that.
January 3rd, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
To an extreme yes. However, most decent teams have the capability of running a two-minute offense, even if high tempo isn't their thing.
Michigan is slow to a fault. That fault being delay of game penalties at the most incredible times, and killing massive clock time when down two or more scores.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:45 AM ^
I would take virtually any more aggressive system at this point....it is safe to say our offensive relative to the talent on the offense....is probably one of the most ineffective in the country. At this point virtually any big change is good change.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:49 AM ^
Toledo. Honestly I don't care. I don't think our offensive scheme overall is problematic as much as we could be tweaking formations, tempo, and specific play calls/sequencing to improve the overall rhythm of the offense to keep defenses on their toes.
What I really want is a fully operational offensive line filled with redshirt junior and senior starters, a QB who has spent more than 1 year in the system, and well-coached WRs. Have we had that yet in the JH era?
Offense comes down to execution more often than not - line needs to make its blocks, QB needs to make reads and throw, WRs need to catch, RBs need to cut and hit holes hard. In the last four years can you really argue we've had all the pieces we need there? Yes we need to put these guys in the best position to succeed and that's on the coaches/playcalling. Our offense was top-25 this year with a QB in his first year having a playbook, an offensive line that finally had competent coaching, and WRs that weren't freshman and had someone to prepare them as well. Regardless of coordinators, this offense will make another jump next year just based on the O-Line, QB, and WRs making another year of progress. Improved playcallign and hitting on Turner or Charbonnet and we'll be top 15 or better on offense.
January 3rd, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
Since you narrowed it down to college football, probably Clemson, Oklahoma, or Bama. Those systems relied on the pass to open up run game down the middle and I think thats what we need. I always thought OSU was too pass heavy this year. Of course with Haskins as your QB thats not a negative.
Our ideal offense probably looks something like the Rams offense though. Downfield throws with a punishing ground game.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:13 AM ^
I would say, imo, that Clemson has the most balanced offense. I say that because they have a true dual threat QB with Lawrence, but definitely is a pass first qb. They have a true bell cow RB in Etienne who has well over 1,000 yards rushing. They have NFL WRs. They do not use the TE as much, but still employ them on occasion.
I love having depth, but I cant stand the way Harbaugh subs. Seems like multiple guys rotate almost every play. Higdon’s first carry against OSU went for 8 yards. They sub, Patterson gets sacked. Incomplete pass. Punt. Lose 62-39.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:49 AM ^
Yeah, our play calling is very disjointed. We can never seem to get three good plays in a row called. We never get in any kind of rhythm.
January 3rd, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
I wonder if Harbaugh controlling the offensive system is overly complex, a la Borges's outfake-the-outfake-the-outfake-theoutfake.
Whereas Jedd Fisch, in 2015-2016, was just outfake.
I mean the WR under utilization with 3 NFL-level wide-receivers was INSANITY.