Gattis Head Coaching Candidacy
I saw things with the Virginia Head Coaching position have taken a turn for the worse with hiring Clemson's OC to be the new head coach. Now its sounding like Gattis is getting some momentum with Virginia in their search. Anyone with knowledge of the situation?
December 9th, 2021 at 5:30 PM ^
Salvatore, maybe you should take this all over to Reddit or something.
December 9th, 2021 at 7:19 PM ^
You’ve taken two starting points for supremacy and said those starting points mean that 80 years later Nazism is not used for white supremacy agendas is ducking laughable.
I guess you’ve never heard of the Neo-Nazis of Norway, who really, really hate dark skinned immigrants. Weird how hate groups morph over decades to fit new agendas.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_of_Norway
December 9th, 2021 at 5:12 PM ^
My girlfriend in middle school was Sicilian. You would have thought she was from Kenya listening to the old people in my family.
December 9th, 2021 at 4:28 PM ^
Double post. Deleted.
December 9th, 2021 at 4:38 PM ^
I did not zee that coming
December 9th, 2021 at 5:03 PM ^
There's an emerging historical consensus for the opposite argument, fwiw. James Whitman's Hitler's American Model is probably the best place to start for scholarship about the links between Jim Crow and Nazi racial laws.
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691172422/hitlers-ameri…
Here's a review/synopsis in the New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influ…
December 9th, 2021 at 5:22 PM ^
James Whitman isn’t an expert on Nazism or antisemitism. He ignores the centuries of antisemitic laws in Europe during the Middle Ages as well as the massacres, marginalization, etc. Jews were kicked out of England for 350 years. Jews in Germany would not achieve emancipation until the 1870’s. And so forth.
It would be more accurate to say antisemitic laws and marginalization of Jews in Europe in the Middle Ages were the forerunner to the racist laws of the Americas which in turn influenced the creation of the Nazis laws.
Like most Americans he makes it about America because that is what we do.
Any thorough history of the Holocaust begins in the Middle Ages and Christianity. The horrors detailed there presage the horrors we see in the Redemption South.
December 9th, 2021 at 5:53 PM ^
He's a legal scholar whose specific interest in that book is how Nazis used American law as their primary referent as they sought to institutionalize race into legal codes.
Obviously, what temporal scale to use is one of the key questions when writing history. And European anti-semitism obviously exists within a much longer temporalities. But it seems pretty clear that US law (and not just Jim Crow in the South, also the 1924 Immigration Law and the Chinese Exclusion Act) served as a primary referent for Nazi lawyers and politicians as they attempted, when in power, to encode their particular racial prejudices into law.
From Ira Katznelson's review in the Atlantic...
Pushing back against scholarship that downplays the impact in Nazi Germany of the U.S. model of legal racism, Whitman marshals an array of evidence to support the likelihood “that the Nuremberg Laws themselves reflect direct American influence.” As race law’s global leader, Whitman stresses, America provided the most obvious point of reference for the September 1933 Preußische Denkschrift, the Prussian Memorandum, written by a legal team that included Roland Freisler, soon to emerge as the remarkably cruel president of the Nazi People’s Court. American precedents also informed other crucial Nazi texts, including the National Socialist Handbook for Law and Legislation of 1934–35, edited by the future governor-general of Poland, Hans Frank, who was later hung at Nuremberg. A pivotal essay in that volume, Herbert Kier’s recommendations for race legislation, devoted a quarter of its pages to U.S. legislation—which went beyond segregation to include rules governing American Indians, citizenship criteria for Filipinos and Puerto Ricans as well as African Americans, immigration regulations, and prohibitions against miscegenation in some 30 states. No other country, not even South Africa, possessed a comparably developed set of relevant laws.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/11/what-america-taugh…
December 9th, 2021 at 6:10 PM ^
Europe had antisemitic laws in the Middle Ages. Edward I forced Jews to wear yellow patches. They were booted out of England in 1290. They were blamed for the Black Death. Conspiracy theories were created accusing them of using children’s blood for Passover bread. They were subjected to extreme mob violence. They were being subjected to Tulsa’s, Rosewoods, and Colfaxes hundreds of years before Columbus landed.
Jews were consistently denied civil rights all throughout Europe for centuries.
Jews dealt with rules and regulations constraining them to a lesser status for 1000 years in Europe. Holocaust scholars know this. Whitman apparently does not.
You can certainly say that the Nazis used American legal theory to create their own legal framework, but the driving force behind them are almost 1000 years old.
December 9th, 2021 at 10:48 PM ^
I think I can tell from this thread which posters are actually familiar with historiography and how historians operate, and which posters just know a lot about the past.
December 9th, 2021 at 5:25 PM ^
I think you've bitten off more historical analysis than you can chew and anyone else to swallow in one bite. In any case, wrong context to make any case for this argument.
December 9th, 2021 at 5:51 PM ^
White supremacy and Nazism are not the same thing. That isn’t controversial and it isn’t even subjective. They are objectively distinct ideologies stemming from different histories.
That isn’t historical analysis. That is objective fact.
But yes, this isn’t the place.
December 10th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
Not a single person in this thread has argued that Nazism and White supremacy are the exact same thing. Your narcissism is quite impressive.
December 9th, 2021 at 8:48 PM ^
Can never be mad at someone moving up in life. If he feels it’s the right move for him and his family so be it! Even if it may upset “our” fanbase.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:41 PM ^
As long as he doesn't Durkin us and take the next month off before the bowl game, then it's all good, thanks for the excellence and congratulations on the next step in his career.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:42 PM ^
Yeah 247 reporting that Gattis is now the favorite. Not ideal, as he would either need to leave before the playoff game or spend half his time recruiting for UVA while also gameplanning.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:49 PM ^
Would leave immediately - signing day is early next week.
This would suck...
December 9th, 2021 at 5:29 PM ^
They are reporting he is the top target, not the favorite. I don’t think he’s even interviewed and the two people that have interviewed with uva have both turned it down after
December 9th, 2021 at 6:33 PM ^
He should stay far away from UVA unless Mack Brown is announcing his retirement. UNC owns Virginia recruiting wise and the very best in the state get poached by OSU, Bama, Georgia, PSU and Michigan. Virginia Tech and UVA have been horrible when it comes to keeping the best Virginia kids in Virginia. You would think UNC is the flagship school in Virginia the last few years.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:45 PM ^
I really don't understand our conundrum with assistants. It feels like very few other schools have as much staff turnover moving onto better jobs than us
December 9th, 2021 at 3:49 PM ^
It means you’re doing a good job hiring and developing great assistants. Would you rather we hired and have assistants that perform so poorly they’re not wanted by anyone?
December 9th, 2021 at 4:33 PM ^
Exactly. I seem to recall many on this blog calling for Gattis’s head only a year ago. Maybe it took him a little while to grow into the job, which was his first OC position (1 year at Bama as co-OC). Great head coaches develop a great coaching tree, point is they always get the next one to develop.
December 9th, 2021 at 5:11 PM ^
A year ago my ass, there were people grumbling early this year…
December 9th, 2021 at 3:56 PM ^
Alabama says hi.
December 9th, 2021 at 5:56 PM ^
What do you possibly not understand? When you hire good people, other places want them. When those other places have promotions to offer them, they go. I don’t see what’s complicated about this…
While you’d take continuity, it’s a great sign to see your people moving on to better jobs. And makes YOUR job that much more attractive to people also looking to move up the coaching ranks.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:45 PM ^
La la la la la la la... I can't hear you
December 9th, 2021 at 3:45 PM ^
Gattis I would bet is more than likely to get a P5 HC offer and I would imagine he will accept it. I believe he is a Mid-Atlantic guy and Virginia would be a good fit for him.
All-in-all it's healthy attrition. He did a fabulous job this year and he deserves a shot at running his own program. One way to look at it in the long term, guys like Gattis moving up to a P5 Head Coaching job helps elevate the prestige of the program within the coaching ranks and the prospects of working under Harbaugh. Young up and coming coaches will take notice at what Gattis accomplished and be ready to jump at the opportunity. MacDonald will get his shot sooner than later (just not yet, pls) as well. Nobody deals with this more than Nick Saban, and it's because he is extremely successful.
If/when Gattis gets his HC position I would guess Weiss will assume play calling duties and Moore/Hart will have more influence in the offensive game planning.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:53 PM ^
Wait- we're bringing in Charlie Weiss to call plays?
December 9th, 2021 at 7:19 PM ^
Once again, I always think I'm funnier than anyone else does.
December 9th, 2021 at 9:40 PM ^
It would give us a decided schematic advantage.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:47 PM ^
Yep, having success at a high profile program comes with getting your coordinators poached. It also comes with getting the pick of up and coming talent to replace them. Recruiting is often cited as being the most crucial aspect of running a successful program, but hiring can’t be far behind.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:49 PM ^
I don’t fault people for making career moves. Just make sure it is the right position at the right time. Moving just because the first girl winks at you is not the best way to handle it.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:49 PM ^
Gattis was bound to get a HC offer... just wish it would wait til after the Playoffs. Hopefully, if he takes a HC job before the playoffs, he'll finish out the season calling plays for us. I believe Joe Brady did that for LSU when they won their NC?
December 9th, 2021 at 4:49 PM ^
That's what Kirby Smart did with Alabama, he was still their defensive coordinator through the playoffs even though he had been announced as Georgia head coach. Worked out ok for all sides.
December 9th, 2021 at 6:02 PM ^
Speaking of Joe Brady, if Gattis does leave, let's get that guy.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:50 PM ^
VA is for lovers.... Gattis is a fighter.... it ain't happenin'....
not now, it can't....we're so fukin' close.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:50 PM ^
Horrible title.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:51 PM ^
Either way I think he is gone. And we will be fine, and predict Weiss moves up.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:51 PM ^
Also - I think Gattis would benefit from another year or two with Harbaugh. He finally got the offense down to where it hums. Now he can focus on HC activities and learn from Harbaugh.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:52 PM ^
It’s not whether he lands a job, it’s the timing. You have signing coming up and the CFP as well. I wish him the best but it’d be nice if that was in late January.
December 9th, 2021 at 3:52 PM ^
4 out of the last 10 Broyles Award winners went on to be head coaches the following year (Diaco, Hermann, Locksley, Sark). Of the remaining 6, 2 became head coaches after one more year (Narduzzi and Riley). The other four are Joe Brady (went back to the NFL), Tony Elliot and Brent Venebles (both remained at Clemson till about a week ago) and John Chavis (basically a lifetime DC).
Don't know if that indicates much about Gattis' immediate future other than he'll get the opportunity whenever he wants to take it. I think our best hope is that the ESP has pushed the coaching carousel too early for a playoff bound coach to change schools.
December 9th, 2021 at 4:01 PM ^
If Gattis were to leave, i would not be surprised if Matt Weiss and/or Sherron Moore assume OC responsibilities.
December 9th, 2021 at 4:24 PM ^
What has Weiss shown to warrant this? Moore has at least proven to be a fantastic OL and TE coach.
I would prefer a more proven candidate to help Moore grow because I think he the star on this staff. Superb coach and recruiter.
December 9th, 2021 at 5:18 PM ^
You seem to be full of it. First, you claimed that McDonald is not fit to be a college level DC and now you claim that Weiss is no good as an OC.
December 9th, 2021 at 5:26 PM ^
You seem to be a Masshole.
Questioning what Weiss has done to warrant the position is perfectly legitimate question. I see people mentioning him and no one can seem to answer the question why he deserves the shot.
I didn’t say he was no good. I said why him. You have reading comprehension issues.
December 9th, 2021 at 6:44 PM ^
Questioning what Weiss has done to warrant the position is perfectly legitimate question. I see people mentioning him and no one can seem to answer the question why he deserves the shot.
I'm with you Salvatore. Weiss has coached on the offensive side of the ball for all of 4 years (asst wr coach, 2 years RB coach - Baltimore, 1 year qb coach). He'd be a first time playcaller at any level. Gattis had twice as much experience coaching offense, and he still struggled as a first season playcaller. This offense does not need a playcaller learning on the fly. This isn't the re-boot of 2019.
As far as Macdonald, he's been coaching on the defensive side of the ball since 2008. If Josh Gattis does leave this for UVA, get a proven guy who can keep the offense rolling. Weiss seems like a good coach, but he has far too little experience.
December 9th, 2021 at 7:32 PM ^
Matt has more experience than Mike. He started with Jim at Stanford. I know both of them, and Matt is as qualified as Mike, if not more, to run the offense. When Jim was talking with John about the DC job, he also inquired about Matt, and was very close to hiring him right then. I posted about all of these several weeks before Mike's hiring was announced. He is already very much involved with the offensive game plans. I posted about the enormous impact that Matt will have on our offense during the summer.
December 10th, 2021 at 8:07 AM ^
I would take Matt Weiss IMMEDIATELY as OC.
That also would leave an opening in the offensive staff. I would love to see if Joe Brady would come to Michigan.
December 9th, 2021 at 7:21 PM ^
You conveniently ignored your wrong characterization of MacDonald. He seems to be doing a great job. He had never been a DC at any level. Matt has far more experience than him and has a longer history with Jim.
December 9th, 2021 at 9:58 PM ^
Okay, based on his bio from Stanford and Baltimore, Coach Weiss was on the defensive side of the ball from 2005-2015. He started coaching offense as asst QB coach in Baltimore in 2016. Mike Macdonald has worked on the defensive side of the ball since 2008. I'm not certain of the math, but I think Coach Macdonald has vastly more experience coaching defense, than Coach Weiss has coaching offense. I didn't characterize anything wrongly.
Further, it doesn't matter how long Weiss has known Coach Harbaugh. Weiss has NEVER called offensive plays at ANY level of football, and thusly would be a first time offensive coordinator and playcaller. That's fine if a unit is undergoing a reboot (ala defense 2021, and offense 2019). However, this offense does not need to engage in the on the job training that all first time playcallers will undergo.
Look at Joe Brady, he was the pass game coordinator (not playcaller) for LSU. He helped Joe Borrow and the LSU offense reach phenomenal heights. He played that into an NFL OC job where he would become a first time playcaller. 2 years later, he's unemployed. The experiment failed. First time playcallers need a breaking in period, often at a lower level. With the position Michigan finds itself in now, and in the immediate future, the offense should not be trusted to a first time playcaller. I understand that you know the guy, and that instills a supreme confidence in him. But, let him cut his teeth as a playcaller somewhere where the stakes are not quite as high.