ESPN Doubling Down on MSU
More sexual assult charges hanging out at MSU Hoops. No?!?!
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/22457780/michigan-state-freshma…
February 17th, 2018 at 9:16 AM ^
that ESPN and mgoblog posters here have dragged his name through the mud even though he hasn't even been charged, let alone convicted. Both the lack of empathy and disregard for the rights of the accused here are disturbing.
February 16th, 2018 at 1:18 AM ^
by the Nassar case as anyone else. And I'm concerned that other cases weren't handled appropriately. But I'm not a fan of widespread media publicity and hysterics over every sexual assualt allegation, especially in the current environment. The player may very well be completely innocent. And even if he is, he may get screwed over by a lack of due process prevalent in college tribunals. He was accused of "forcibly groping" somebody, a lower level 4th degree assault. That has to be very hard to prove (usually impossible) beyond a reasonable doubt unless there was video or there were several very credible witnesses. I know it's not popular here but maybe a little skepticism and consideration for the accused is in order. His name is now smeared, innocent or not, while his accuser remains anonymous.
February 16th, 2018 at 2:30 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 4:11 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 9:32 AM ^
Is that you????
February 16th, 2018 at 2:34 AM ^
the story here is that someone claimed the police dept is not informing the school of reported incidents when they are mandated to do so.
So either their new PR guy doesn't know what he's talking about or he just admitted that they're still not following the rules.
No one cares about the accused. The crime isn't the issue. The continued noncompliance by admin and AD and the continued culture of secrecy that allowed Larry Nassar to abuse girls for decades is potentially still rampant. That's the story.
February 16th, 2018 at 3:44 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 4:40 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 8:29 PM ^
February 17th, 2018 at 8:58 AM ^
You didn't even read my original post did you? What an imbecile. As for the article, it throws out a lot of crap insinuating that MSU might be hiding something or violating regulations without actually providing any evidence to back it up. Yes, reading comprehension is an essential skill.
February 17th, 2018 at 9:06 AM ^
you need to go back and read the article. There is no evidence provided that MSU is hiding something or violating regulations. The police department is another matter. And it's not clear what they are mandated to do based on the article. It's all a bunch of innuendo at least partly based on MSU not immediately providing a report to the article's author, a report they may or may not have. MSU may be guilty of acting inappropriately but the article fails to make this point.
And you're wrong. Both the ALLEGED crime AND MSU's handling of the matter are important issues.
February 16th, 2018 at 3:00 AM ^
This message board isn't a court room. We have no obligation to apply the "beyond a reasonable doubt" burden of proof. It's good that courts do that. Because their sexual assault convictions yield the most severe punishments available. Universities (with their lesser punishments -- suspensions, expulsions) are guided to apply the "preponderance of evidence" burden of proof because it's clear that just because someone skates without a conviction, that doesn't mean they are innocent. And equating "convictionless" with *necessarily* innocent is the sort of abdication of duty that will inevitably fail real victims.
Meanwhile, this isn't the year 1920. We don't need to pretend that women lying about sexual misconduct is some sort of rampant issue. That's offensive, dark, and stupid -- not to mention how it diminishes the bravery of the uncommon woman who stands up to make an assault public. In that sense, even if a accused is innocent, it's perfectly fair for their life to become temporarily difficult as the open wound of whether they are innocent is transparently/comprehensively dissected.
February 16th, 2018 at 3:45 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 4:43 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 7:28 AM ^
system at MSU. Where these incidents might get reported. .. eventually.
February 16th, 2018 at 7:47 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 3:02 PM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 1:32 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 1:43 AM ^
ESPN isn't doubling down, they are reporting facts.
February 16th, 2018 at 3:51 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 5:29 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 10:12 AM ^
Because if ESPN keeps digging more dirt and there are more awkward press conference interactions, MSU is going to be handed the ladder of death as they try to win the 4 games needed to get to San Antonio. The NCAA is not going to want such a black eye anywhere nears its premier event, so I'm assuming State will get a hell of a draw and lose in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, Izzo will talk about stuff at the end of the season and IMHO, announce his retirement so he can abscond with his legacy relatively intact.
February 16th, 2018 at 5:50 AM ^
Paula Lavigne is doing human society a favor by confronting this culture head on with her reporting.
February 17th, 2018 at 6:49 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 7:40 AM ^
It has an embedded pejoratice connotation insinuating the basis of the charges is contrived (which certainly isn't the case here).
February 16th, 2018 at 7:31 AM ^
This is "unbelieveable" by which I mean, considering the source and Izzo's program, is totally believeable.
Washington has suited up for coach Tom Izzo's team every game this season, but as a younger member of an elite team has not received any playing time. In October, Izzo said Washington and another walk-on "are capable of playing someplace" but were, at the time, shining as scout team players, according to a tweet from a Detroit Free Press reporter.
I wonder if Brock Washington, as a fringe player, will be a sacrificial lamb for Izzo. A chance for him to show that he's "serious" about this stuff, unless it involves a player who actually gets minutes.
In any event, it's great to see ESPN on a mission to uproot these issues. If they're on this, I suspect that they'll have something to say about the Appling and Payne rape cover-up as they dig deeper into Tom Izzo's Michigan State Basketball Program. That story is a victim's nightmare, but an investigative reporter's dream.
Drip, drip, drip.
February 16th, 2018 at 7:39 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 7:52 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 8:03 AM ^
I think user I Wrote a 4 Word Letter 100% gets it. Their point is that in a truly disciplined program, your scrubs* are generally your best citizens.
In Tom Izzo's Michigan State University Basketball Program, even the scrubs are apparently entitled and sheltered pricks.
(You're correct, of course, that the player's abilities should be immaterial when it comes to discipline. But the point I Wrote was making is that it's really indicative of how entitled a program Izzo runs when the practice players are not good citizens. Put on that uniform in E. Lansing, and you can pretty much do what you want it would seem.)
*Scrub being a relative term. Being on a practice squad of a top ten program likely indicates that you're good at basketball, even if you are apparently bad at life.
February 16th, 2018 at 8:06 AM ^
It would be an admission of guilt and that aint happening. What will happen however is this:
1. After their next game some reporter from out of state will ask Izzo if he has any comment on the recent ESPN story on Washington
2. Izzo will respond "no, it's an active investigation and we're not allowed to comment. I want to talk about basketball."
3. Another reporter, probably from ESPN, will ask a follow-up question.
4. Izzo, looking very exasperated, will repeat "guys I know you want me to discuss this but I just cant. Let's talk about today's game ok?" And that will be the end.
5. Video of the two questions will be shown on ESPN throughout the night and next morning. Local Michigan stations will also reference it that day.
Izzo will never speak of this incident again. A day or two will pass by and it will be forgetten.
By the way I had a leaky faucet for years in a house i used to own. But as much as it dripped it never came close to making a hole in the sink. As a matter of fact you couldnt even tell it had been dripping. The sound of it was just annoying but didnt change a thing.
February 16th, 2018 at 8:25 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 9:40 AM ^
You keep on insisting that this will all be forgotten, but the stories keep cropping up - and some of them, like today's, are new issues. I know you and I have gone back and forth on this, but ESPN seems to be smelling blood in E. Lansing. Plus I think they're put off by MSU Heisman-ing their FOIA request and then smearing their reporting in public statements.
I'm nowhere near as confident as I'd like to be that this is going to come to a head, but I don't know why you appear to think that it's certain that nothing will happen. We're getting a new story on this from the WWL at least once a week. Plus front page stories in the Detroit News and Freep. And ESPN hasn't even really begun mining in the Keith Appling and Adreian Payne filth. Donations - the life blood of a university - are down 25% for the 4Q of 2017, and that was before the Nassar verdicts and victim impact statements.
I've said it before, but the Larry Nassar scandal is MSU's Jerry Sandusky brand. There's a good chance, with tone-deaf Engler, Dantonio and Izzo, that MSU football and basketball will be exposed as MSU's Baylor brand.
February 16th, 2018 at 9:46 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 9:56 AM ^
I've noted several times that we both hope you're wrong. To paraphrase The Dismemberment Plan, "MGrowOld would rather be happy than right this time."
But the "nobody cares about MSU" cuts both ways. Like Baylor, they are not a blueblood program, and outside of the state don't have much of a following despite their successes on the basketball court and football field. That's what makes them a good target for ESPN - you've got a successful program nobody cares about now tainted with the Nassar scandal and under the microscope. From the press, from the (show pony) Michigan AG, from the (oft-toothless) NCAA, from the donors, from a significant portion of alums, from the faculty, and from much of the student body. That's a lot of attention, and if you sniff around enough you're gonna find dirt. Especially in a dirt casserolle like MSU.
Agreed 100% that MSU is not a national brand. But I think that very lack of panache - along with the arrogance of Engler, Dantonio and Izzo - makes MSU an inviting target for a sustained campaign.
February 16th, 2018 at 9:51 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 9:14 AM ^
He can't be the sacrificial lamb at this point. It would just look to the outside world as a response to the article. If Izzo won't suspend a player while under investigation that will never even see the floor, he certainly would never do anything to a player who actually sees the floor.
February 16th, 2018 at 7:43 AM ^
Is this the usual timeline for a case like this? It seems like an event in August should have been dealt with by now? Is this an example of an event being "swept under the rug" or could an individual still be charged 6+ months after an event?
Just seems like a long time...
February 16th, 2018 at 7:51 AM ^
Total lack of institutional control.
February 16th, 2018 at 7:56 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 8:11 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 8:35 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 8:36 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 8:34 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 8:36 AM ^
Correct. I'm not sure I would want Harbaugh, Belein or anyone else to simply dismiss a kid based on a groping accusation that is only under investigation with no charges filed. If it is corroborated by a witness and proven to be true, then most certainly goodbye.
February 16th, 2018 at 8:56 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 9:00 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 9:38 AM ^
Man, you would think that place would like like a garbage dump with all the littering that goes on in East Lansing.
Wait ... it does!
February 16th, 2018 at 9:43 AM ^
The easiest way to both save the school's reputation and save the hides of the coaches is to start to get real. Admit bad choices were made and that leadership in several athletic programs failed.
What we have here with Engler's statement, Dantonio's denial, Izzo's pot shots at ESPN and Hollis' odd letter is undisciplined flailing to prop up an image and salvage the past/present narrative.
It might excite their sports fans. But it convinces no one else and further exposes a University culture driven by sports over safety.
History will treat the school and their coaches much kinder if they admit there were failures and simply own them
ESPN clearly isn't going anywhere and when you egg them on, more stories are going to get published.
February 16th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 11:27 AM ^
They're all over twitter, lambasting ESPN for releasing the name of a guy who was not actually charged with sexual assault, only accused.
I remember how they were all outraged by the local and national sites putting Brendan Gibbons name out there. Remember him? The guy who was never charged with a crime?
Not defending Gibbons. Just noting the hypocritical outrage.