Indefensible Comment Count

Brian

[Eric Upchurch]

Big mood today:

I thought Urban Meyer would skate away from the Zach Smith thing largely unscathed, and he has. But I'm still shocked this morning because OSU released a report that provides details of Smith's employment and Meyer's actions. First and foremost, Meyer's first action after the Brett McMurphy report that set this chain of events in motion was to delete all text messages older than a year off his phone. If your first reaction to a media report is to destroy evidence, that's a firing offense.

It goes on, pointlessly, detailing years of Smith's very very obvious issues and Meyer's continuing enablement of them before getting into OSU's response post-McMurphy and the lies Meyer told in an effort to make it all go away. It concludes with a burst of stunningly inane pretzel logic in the service of keeping Meyer in his job. Nicole Auberbach:

The 12-hour meeting was about inserting the pretzel logic. Meanwhile, this was the guy who Meyer kept in his program for a decade:

(b) At 7:35 p.m., Shelley Meyer conveyed, in a text to Coach Meyer, that “I am worried about Zach’s response. He drinks a lot and I am just not sure how stable he will be. Afraid he will do something dangerous. It’s obvious he has anger/rage issues already.” Meyer did not respond to the message.

In response to this, a slap on the wrist and a warning that if Meyer covers for the actions of a serial abuser for another decade there might be Serious Consequences.

And I dunno, guys. What's even the point anymore? Michigan's main rivals are both proven loathsome institutions. They beat Michigan on the football field, so no one cares. Meyer will face no real consequences for his behavior. Mark Dantonio has faced no consequences for bringing Auston Robertson to campus. Both have enabled abuse, in full view of the public, and nobody cares because they win games. Michigan State tried not to care about Larry Nassar and even when forced to by public outrage still gave Lou Anna Simon a golden parachute; they continue to lie to this day.

No real consequences for anyone for anything except losing football games. No shame. Michigan will go down to Columbus in November and very probably lose again and all will be forgiven, except all is already forgiven. Except there was never anything to forgive in the first place.

We need to stop looking at the NCAA as an organization that is supposed to check these behaviors and start looking at it as the primary cause of them. Every big time school looks at their bylaws as a joke to get around. Every major recruit is getting paid under the table. There is a giant see-no-evil culture across the sport. To some extent this is fine because the evil that people aren't seeing is people exchanging labor for money, but once you have a sport-wide code of silence it can easily be extended to wife beaters. Or rapists. Or anything, really.

And then how are you supposed to care?

Comments

MichIOE01

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:00 PM ^

Here is a perfect example of an awful fan.  An awful human being actually.  The only comment on Land-Grant Holy Land's article with the entire actual report.

https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2018/8/23/17757500/ohio-state-urban-meyer-report-independent-investigation-findings

Adding screenshots of comment in case someone there deletes this awful crap.

OSU1.PNG
OSU2.PNG

Section 1.8

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:17 PM ^

I actually agree with much of that comment.  I agree very much with the main sentiment -- that universities are notoriously bad at conducting quasi-criminal tribunals, quasi-civil hearings, and they are as often as not fundamentally incompetent in the handling of all manner of H.R. functions.

It really is not out of line to suggest that we may be getting to a point where a single uncorroborated allegation can lead to a student's, or a player's, or a coach's dismissal from a university.  It has happened, and has happened repeatedly.  I think it has happened at Michigan.

But I also agree with one point made by Brian, and that is the mystery of the investigative handling of Urban Meyer's cellphone.  It sure looks like legal spoliation to me.  And there is a good discussion about that, that was started this morning on the MGoBoard.

 

 

El Jeffe

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:38 PM ^

IDK, man. That commenter lost me completely at

"It is still not clear, even now, that Zach Smith abused his wife. Or that his wife did nothing to incite him."

That's some vile shit right there. "We don't know if Zach Smith did any of the things of which there is photographic evidence and repeated complaints by the victim, and even if he did, bitch might have deserved it."

Yikes. 

Section 1.8

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:50 PM ^

Settle down.  You could have asked me, if I agreed with that phrasing; I actually don't.  It's a bit too casual for my tastes, much like Michigan fans recklessly claiming that Zach Smith "beat the shit out of his wife."

Example: there is indeed photographic "evidence" apparently taken by Courtney Smith with a cellphone camera, of a reddened arm and a cut hand.  It isn't photographic "evidence" of any of Zach's actions.  It's part of an as-yet uncorroborated claim by Courtney Smith.  And from how many years ago?

She has a lawyer.  She filed for divorce.  She apparently has the Powell P.D. on speed-dial.  She has friends, and family.  Remarkably, her feelings about the Ohio State football program were such that she felt confident to call Shelley Meyer and other coaching wives and share her thoughts/concerns/fears/etc.

Now; in your post, did you take a real quote (paragraph 2) and combine it with a completely phony and deliberately loony "quote" (paragraph 3)?

Yikes.

El Jeffe

August 23rd, 2018 at 2:24 PM ^

Lol "settle down." I'm settled--are you? I wasn't attacking you--just the tone and connotation of that pair of sentences in the comment we're discussing.

And was my intentionally dramatic rewriting of that paragraph all that loony? How else would you interpret "Or that his wife did nothing to incite him."?

TIMMMAAY

August 23rd, 2018 at 2:36 PM ^

I liked this place better when you weren't posting. 

You obviously have had some personal experience with this shit at some point in your life, or you wouldn't constantly harp on the same tired shit again and again. You seem like a not so great human being. 

TIMMMAAY

August 23rd, 2018 at 5:26 PM ^

I mean, this is the first time I recall commenting at you since your return. So, one ad hominem attack to be precise. I used to defend you in the way back, but at some point you went over the edge with your constant defense of Gibbons. 

I'm suggesting that you either stop posting, or stop harping on the same shit on repeat. 

OccaMsrazr

August 23rd, 2018 at 6:39 PM ^

Section 1.8 is your standard contrarian who thinks the world is too PC blah blah blah. Always thinks someone is being persecuted. 

Now in terms of kangaroo courts regarding students and sexual assault (look no further than Drew Sterrett here at Michigan) in college, that is 100% a problem, however this issue has nothing to do with that. 

oriental andrew

August 23rd, 2018 at 2:02 PM ^

Sorry, but I have to object. In fact, I vehemently object. There are too many problems with his comment, but a few select responses:

  • "a PC standard meaningful only to an academic audience and the PC public". It's not just about academia, but the whole movement (call it #metoo, call it something else). When you have Nassar, newly-publicized Catholic church scandals, executives left and right resigning or being fired for conduct, this is a big deal nationally. Is the entire "public," then, considered PC? Other than the clear-thinking osu/meyer supporters? Of course, he goes on and on and on and on ad nauseum about the PC public and academia being the root cause of the whole situation, so I won't rehash the other 2/3 of his comments. 
  • "giving Zach Smith, an alleged wife abuser, a second chance." I believe that would be second, third, and fourth chances. 
  • "It is still not clear, even now, that Zach Smith abused his wife. Or that his wife did nothing to incite him." It should not matter if Courtney Smith incited her husband. Abuse is never justified. 
  • "Zach Smith’s visit to a strip club, his over-extended credit card account, his purchase of sex toys. All of these are perfectly legal and have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. Zach Smith’s private life is not the business of his employer." This is patently false. If I ordered such items and had them sent to work and it was discovered by my employer, I'd likely be fired. If I took a client or prospective client to a strip club while on a company-paid business trip and it was discovered, I guarantee you that I'd be fired. We have annual corporate compliance trainings and I bet you $100 that Smith had to go through that kind of stuff. He engaged in many fireable offenses b/c he mixed his personal and private lives to such an extent. 

 

MichIOE01

August 23rd, 2018 at 2:27 PM ^

One thing I do agree with that commenter about:  "If Urban Meyer were a graduate assistant in the English department, on the same facts, this would have been a non-event."

That is true.  If he were a graduate assistant in the English department he would have been immediately fired and nobody would care or even know about it.

Section 1.8

August 23rd, 2018 at 7:04 PM ^

What?  If Urban Meyer had been a graduate assistant in the English Department, would he have had 50 or 60 different people working under his leadership?  And would (to adjust your hypothetical just a bit) an English prof, with a group of a dozen graduate assistants working under him, get fired if one of them had had a two domestic violence arrests, and no convictions, and the prof didn't report it or fire the G.A.?

No; with all due respect, there's a lot of funky collegiate faculty stuff that I think gets nothing like the scrutiny that college football does.  I don't think college football programs get lax scrutiny; I think that compared to much of academia, they get more scrutiny.  Football gets extra scrutiny because of a small army of guys like Brett McMurphy looking for stories in an ultra-competitive CFB media environment.  And because football is viewed at so many places as the high-profile "front porch" of university image-making, football programs get tough treatment in the press.  While the press hardly cares about the English Department.

Here's a kind of a perfect one-school example.  The University of Texas-Austin had a tenured Pharmacy prof who was found guilty of felony domestic abuse; they did not remove him.  But Texas football has had a couple of recent players accused (2014 case) of sexual assault, and they were expelled before a jury found one of them not guilty, and the other player's charges were dismissed.

HollywoodHokeHogan

August 23rd, 2018 at 9:35 PM ^

Like about 70% of the instructors in academia, a graduate assistant doesn’t have tenure.  At Michigan they have a union, but that’s uncommon too. That means they can be fired without cause.  In most cases they are fixed term contract employees, like Zac Smith, who can simply not be renewed.  The university doesn’t even have to give a reason for the non-renewal. Most contract faculty  would be fired for even a whiff of what Zac Smith was doing— I know people who were not renewed due to drug issues, they certainly weren’t send to rehab or counseling.

You are right that professors aren’t investigated by the media like football coaches are.  However the vast majority make nowhere near the hundreds of thousands of dollars that even positional coaches make. ZS’s salary is more than anyone in OSU’s English department, and more than almost anyone in the whole college of arts and science.

 

 

HollywoodHokeHogan

August 23rd, 2018 at 3:59 PM ^

Aren’t they missing you at the MRA reddit?  Shouldn’t you be investigating how CS incited ZS to restrain her by the neck and then manipulated him into admitting it via text?  Or looking into the supposed impossiblity of ex parte motions to seal?  Come on man, other places need you more than Mgoblog.

emooretc

August 23rd, 2018 at 3:16 PM ^

The notion that they are being held to some unreasonable standard because they are public figures or employed by a university is such a joke.  I fired someone this week for posting racially insensitive material on their facebook page.  I don't know what world people live in where actions like this don't warrant firing.

1464

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^

As a former football player at the HS level who had a couple concussions, I will say that football has a bad side, but it has a good side as well.  I do not see it as a death sentence where players with few other options are forced to lace them up and hurt each other for sport.

Football was fun.  Minor injuries were fun, being sore for 3 days after big games.  The camaraderie.  The lessons about how to work as a team.  The opportunity for some kids to go to school and better themselves.

Concussions and ACL's are not fun.  Heat stroke death is terrible, but completely preventable.  I LOVED playing football, and so do most of the kids on the field.  I think it is silly to consider the game to be 'utterly horrible for humans'.

JFW

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:12 PM ^

I agree with this. My son is in pop warner now. I'm an assistant coach (read 'I hold pads, help set up things, and clap and encourage kids because my football knowledge is poor'). 

Ideally, in my world, sports are there to teach our kids camaraderie, discipline, grace in winning and in losing, teamwork, and self sacrifice for a greater good. Those are the main goals for kids in any sport for me. Those are why some of the best stories are those of teams that put everything together in teamwork and pull out an improbable win. 

When it just becomes about winning and losing, and nothing else, then the sports program should be dropped. 

CRISPed in the DIAG

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:29 PM ^

Good post. Football has some great qualities that you mention. I learned how to go to practice and work on something. I learned how to take shit and give it back when I had to. I learned that guys you don't like during the week have your back on Friday night. I learned how to lose with class and how to use failure as a means of improving. I could keep going.

But, yeah. There was an ugly side. I watched our head coach deny that our Sr QB had a broken leg during an bad exchange with the kid's parents (imagine that happening today, 30 yrs later). I watched some of our parents cry when we fought like warrior poets only to settle for a tie against our rival (this was in the 80's when you had to decisively run the table in order to qualify for the MHSAA playoffs). I watched one of my best friends miss out on an appointment to Annapolis because he blew his knee. I could keep going.

I hope OSU fans eventually realize the line they crossed yesterday. These are young men who need the best example. Yes, Woody Hayes ended badly. But I have trouble believing he would have tolerated even a rumor of a wife beater. 

MGoNOLA

August 23rd, 2018 at 2:19 PM ^

I do not discount any of this. I think organized sports can be such a positive experience for so many people. It was for me! 

I guess my comment was more about this culture of corruption that eats up far more than the player's bodies (although that is also very significant). 

I've always held two thoughts in my head at once 1) I love watching Michigan football and following this sport AND 2) I want to see things change throughout. 

The more that 2 seems less likely makes 1 feel less fun and joyful. 

This is clearly something for me and my therapist. Just a lament. I used to hang out these boards and read this blog religiously. My disinterest hasn't been driven by the quality of Brian's work or the team's performance. 

ak47

August 23rd, 2018 at 11:58 AM ^

It’s fascinating to me that people think the culture has gotten worse. It’s the same as it’s been since football mattered in any meaningful way, so essentially all of modern football.

its the same culture that permeates our corporations and politics and every other large scale institution where the brand has more value than any individual. And it’s just our culture period. 

If harbaugh wins championships Michigan would react in likely the same way. I agree it’s incredibly sad, I disagree it’s in any way unique to football or our rivals 

JFW

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:17 PM ^

We don't *know* how Michigan would react. I think there are alot of facts that suggest we/it would react better, but we don't know. I look at this as a cautionary tale. After everything that has happened: A) MAKE SURE OUR PROGRAM IS CLEAN AND NOT CREATING VICTIMS. B) Make sure we have a clear path of reporting issues, and C) as much as I love Harbaugh and Beilein make sure no one is every above the law. 

I've told younger men not to assume that they'd never be capable of marital infidelity. If you've never been tempted you don't really know, and just assuming you won't might make you vulnerable. Assume instead that you are human and might f*ck up, and keep you guard up accordingly. 

The same idea fits here. 

DCGrad

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^

Everyone always says that same line. UM wouldn’t be any different. Didn’t we fire Gary Moeller for getting drunk at a bar?  He won 3 big ten championships in 4 years. Michigan is better than this bullshit.  I’m not saying that a Michigan could couldn’t abuse his wife, but I’m sure a Michigan coach who abused his wife would get fired. 

Section 1.8

August 23rd, 2018 at 4:42 PM ^

Nope.  Corresondence that was FOIA'ed later showed that Moeller was fired.  I think that in actuality, Moeller was given an intolerable set of options and elected resignation, which gave him a year's salary (and maybe more).  But it was rammed through before Gary sent his resignation letter.  A 100% forced resignation, and I believe that Bo was out of town when it all happened.

Gary's attorney was Deborah Gordon!  You want to know why you should know her name?  She was Drew Sterrett's attorney too, about 20 years later...

 

saveferris

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^

I disagree.  Michigan has demonstrated on numerous occasions that it's willing to put ethics and propriety ahead of winning.  Michigan basketball was the class of the Big 10 for the lionshare of the 1990's, but when evidence of violations surfaced, we did the right thing, admitted our guilt and accepted our punishment.  Punishment that proved to be far more severe and pervasive than anything Penn State, MSU, or OSU have ever had to shoulder for sins that I consider to be much less insidious than those that have come to light at the aforementioned institutions.  Now Michigan isn't perfect; we don't always get it right, but we do a better job than most.

umchicago

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:24 PM ^

also, i remember bud middaugh getting fired as UM baseball coach for creating a manager position for players in the offseason to sell programs at football games.  that got paid slightly more than regular sellers; what proved to be an ncaa violation.  not sure if there were any other issues with him.  but he was a consistent winner.  coach of those great teams in the 80s.

Gopherine

August 23rd, 2018 at 11:59 AM ^

I am with you. I still watch the games, but spend much less time engaged on this site and elsewhere. Part of it is getting older and having kids, part of it is the last ten years of Michigan football gut punching, but its mostly the mounting unease and disgust with the whole institution of college sports. These kids deserve better. 

Kevin13

August 23rd, 2018 at 1:30 PM ^

So true just win football games and human decency can be tossed aside. It turns my stomach and I can imagine a day when I won’t care anymore and stop watching the sport. If what has happened at Baylor or PSU or others happened at UM I would never watch or cheer for them again and would burn anything UM on it I own. 

Just pump billions into a game and allow the inmates to run the asylum