OT-ish: OSU suspends Greek Life
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/us/ohio-state-suspends-fraternity-activit…
Ohio State follows us, Florida State, and Texas State in suspending Greek Life. I thought this might be pertinent to the board because we did the same thing last week, but still put the OT tag on anyway.
November 17th, 2017 at 12:15 PM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 12:46 PM ^
“One mechanism by which dog ownership could reduce CVD risk and mortality is by alleviating psychosocial stress factors, such as social isolation, depression and loneliness - all reportedly lower in dog owners 3,4,5,34. These factors have been linked to increased risk of coronary heart disease, cardiovascular death and all-cause mortality 35,36. Dog ownership has also been associated with elevated parasympathetic and diminished sympathetic nervous system activity 37, lower reactivity to stress, and faster recovery of blood pressure following stressful activity 38.”
November 17th, 2017 at 11:42 AM ^
The article says that the dog "is trained to climb on her stomach and apply pressure."
Seems to me you could find fraternity brother to perform this service pretty easily. Problem solved!
*ducks
November 17th, 2017 at 9:15 AM ^
Good News: Elephant walk will still take place as scheduled
November 17th, 2017 at 9:22 AM ^
Not a bad idea, if you ask me. With hazing incidents happening everywhere these days, it's best to just get out ahead of this and protect yourself until you can find a way to constructively address the issue, campus-wide, going forward.
November 17th, 2017 at 9:26 AM ^
as an alum of a fraternity at UM, I am saddened by any and all deaths associated with hazing and joining a fraternity. I'm also quite embarrassed by the wide spread sexual assault and harassment that takes place in these houses. Being a father to a little girl has made me realize that my behavior and language towards women (while not on the assault level) has not always been appropriate. I was hazed, never to this extreme, and looking back on it, it was stupid of me to even participate in that or allow others to be subjected to it. In fact, all it does is create a vicious cycle. I'm glad the university is doing something about it and I hope they continue to come down harder on those fraternities who do not want to make appropriate changes. Colleges and universities can exist without Greek life, hopefully these fraternities realize that.
November 17th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
but man I hate it when people drop the "as a father of a little girl" line. Why the F does it take having a daughter to realize demeaning or harrasing women is wrong? For that matter, zero credit to any politician who decided discrimination against gays is bad because their kid came out. If that's what it took for you to be a decent person, go fuck yourself and go back to the wrong side of history (not you, Stay Classy, talking about the pols).
I don't have a daughter, or a gay son, or a black best friend, or a Muslim co-worker, or a transgender next-door neighbor, and it turns out you don't need any of those to realize you shouldn't be a total asshat to groups of people that are already facing enough marginalization as it is.
Frat bros, though, yeah. I would probably need a frat bro kid to ever reach the point where I don't want to kick them in the balls.
November 17th, 2017 at 10:36 AM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 10:37 AM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 10:40 AM ^
Cosign.
November 17th, 2017 at 10:44 AM ^
and to act like certain things happening in your life couldn't cause you to think differently because you should have already been acting a certain way isn't very fair in my opinion. Though I'm not condoning any racist, sexist, or homophobic behavior, who are we to judge someone that is actually remorseful? I respect your feelings on the "as a father" line, and I won't ever find anything wrong with saying that. Over the course of my young life, I realized that some things I did (while not law breaking or lawsuit worthy) weren't always appropriate. For example, ghosting young ladies after hooking up with them, taking advantage of situations because I knew a young lady felt some type of way about me, referring to girls as derogatory names, cat-calling (very toolish). I would never want my daughter subject to that sort of bullshit, and I know she is going to have to navigate some of those rough waters on her own (but hopefully not). If you have never engaged in any of that behavior, more power to you man, you were a better teenager and young man than I was.
November 17th, 2017 at 11:35 AM ^
If you have never engaged in any of that behavior, more power to you man, you were a better teenager and young man than I was.
Nicely said. Great response.
Sanctimony, especially from the anonymity of a keyboard always cracks me up.
You learned from your lessons clearly. I'd rather celebrate you for that than judge you.
November 17th, 2017 at 11:22 AM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 3:59 PM ^
1) your hot take is questionable. Proclaiming something "unquestionable" is the most arrogant and ill informed phrase of this or any time. Unquestionably.
2) identifying ethically right and wrong sides of history is just fine, thanks.
November 17th, 2017 at 11:55 AM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
there always seems to be a BUT like this in every conversation.
November 17th, 2017 at 12:08 PM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^
that's a hot take. You should really clarify who that group is though.....because if that is describing fraternities, I think that is gross misrepresentation.
November 17th, 2017 at 1:01 PM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 1:15 PM ^
based on what you said and I just want to make sure I am understanding your position correctly. I am a willing participant in sexism, classism, and racisim by being a member of a fraternity and therefore am allowed to be judged based on those standards? I would venture a guess that the majority of young men in fraternities would not condone any of those actions. I understand their are obvious exceptions to the rule, but, I mean come on!?!? Again, I can't even take your point (if this is actually is your point) seriously. That's like saying any white kid that goes to the University of Alabama is racist because the school used to be segregated.
November 17th, 2017 at 1:26 PM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 4:04 PM ^
for future personal growth.
November 17th, 2017 at 9:29 AM ^
GVSU just banned Sigma Phi Epislon for 5 years for hazing after a member/pledge had to be treated for alcohol poisioning and a concussion after falling. A couple years ago they gave a lifetime ban to Tau Kappa Epislon.
November 17th, 2017 at 10:09 AM ^
and they should bear whatever consequences that are appropriate, up to and including imprisonment.
However, it's mind-boggling to me that anybody could graduate from high school without knowing that drinking 19 shots of hard liquor in 90 minutes is literally life-threatening. I knew when I was in 8th grade that consumption of that much booze was extremely dangerous.
The fact that these kids do this voluntarily simply in order to be allowed to live in a big house with a bunch of other guys makes their deaths particularly tragic and stupid.
November 17th, 2017 at 11:07 AM ^
people you are talking about did not decide to drink as much as they did until they were already drunk. And drinking that much "voluntarily" is not the same thing as drinking that much, while already intoxicated, while two or three people are putting a fifth of Jack in your hands and calling you a pussy in front of a bunch of older guys and hot girls. That IS exactly the problem with a lot of frats, and why these things happen a lot in frat houses.
November 17th, 2017 at 2:20 PM ^
I get that these kids are in social situations with new social pressures that they're not accustomed to, but being expected to drink till you're way past plastered at frat parties is so thoroughly ingrained in our popular culture that a kid would have to be extremely sheltered to not be aware of it.
By 2017, deaths involving drastic over-consumption of alcohol at frat events have received so much publicity that anybody not understanding before they go through the door that it's exactly what they're expected to do is simply not paying attention.
And to repeat, I am NOT absolving frats and their members from organizational and individual responsibility for what happens. It just wouldn't be happening nearly as often if there weren't so many unprepared and easily tractable 19-year olds so desperate to live in a large house with a bunch of other guys that they willingly put themselves in those situations to begin with.
My daughter grew up in A2 and had a normal amount of partying during high school, plenty of it involving alcohol, with the expected episodes of friends puking in her car, or she puking at her friends houses, etc etc. The funny thing is that by the time she was a freshman at Wisconsin, she felt like she'd "been there, done that" on the crazy boozifying and in comparison to most of her classmates/apartment mates, kept the partying to a fairly low key level.
She said that the kids she knew in Madison who had the worst trouble with booze and idiot, over-the-top partying were sheltered kids from small towns in Wisconsin and Minnesota who apparently hadn't done any such stuff back home. They get up to college where for the first time in their lives they don't have Mom and Dad around and they just go apeshit crazy. No doubt the highly-charged party atmosphere at Wisconsin just encourages it. I'm curious whether how often it's the case that the kids who get into lethal trouble with the 20 shots at frat hazing or birthday events are those with comparatively little experience with alcohol beforehand.
November 17th, 2017 at 11:30 AM ^
You were drinking that much in the 8th grade?
Wow... I was only doing a 50/50 mix of Captain Morgan's in my Mountain Dew bottle in class at that age.
November 17th, 2017 at 1:56 PM ^
The problem is that the people involved in knowing that's an unsafe amount of alcohol and can stop it are (a) the person drinking so heavily that he consumes 19 shots, or (b) likely similarly-drunk people around him, likely encouraging it. I doubt there were a lot of people in that room paying attention too intently to his consumption, and he certainly wasn't in any condition to think about it while downing shots.
November 17th, 2017 at 3:11 PM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 5:14 PM ^
Sure. But I have heard of people who are high getting behind a car and killing people.
I'm fine with weed being legalized, but it's not like it makes one immune to terrible decisions.
November 17th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^
I'd hit the streets to support. Sounds like Heaven.
November 17th, 2017 at 10:38 AM ^
I love this more than I should. "Brohibition" is brilliant.
November 17th, 2017 at 11:25 AM ^
BRAHibition?
November 17th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^
If one of the unspoken admission requirements for a frat is drinking 19 shots in 90 minutes, are you going to do it?
November 17th, 2017 at 11:00 AM ^
I am indifferent to whether Fraternities/Sororities are good or bad, but the presence or quality of Greek life on a campus should have zero bearing on your choice of college or university. Good luck!
November 17th, 2017 at 11:25 AM ^
Why do you *want* to be in a frat?
November 17th, 2017 at 11:02 AM ^
My roommate freshman year joined a frat and got hazed badly during his "hell week." They essentially kidnapped him for a week, made him do pretty terrible things, wouldn't let him shower... I saw him after a few days or so and he looked like hell. He came into the room and whispered "they're standing outside waiting for me, I'm not allowed to talk, but I needed to grab a book." He then quickly told me everything they'd done, how he wasn't sleeping, how he felt awful, how they were following him to class and not letting him leave their sight, how he just wanted to quit so he could get back to being a human being...
He shows back up the next weekend when it's all over and says "Oh my gosh, it was the best thing ever. Now I get it!"
I don't get it. If they cared about you as a "brother," why would they do all those things to you? This stuff is evil.
November 17th, 2017 at 12:05 PM ^
November 17th, 2017 at 12:15 PM ^
that honestly sounds like a level of brainwashing that gets used in cults..
November 17th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^
is my #1 reason why I don't care for the Greek system. Teaching people Stockholm syndrome, acceptance of abuse and identification with the abusers.
November 17th, 2017 at 1:59 PM ^
I've known about hazing since I got to U-M in 1971, and couldn't figure out then why anybody would put up with any of it simply to live in a frat. I still don't.
November 17th, 2017 at 4:02 PM ^
Frats are really only a remnant of something that used to be quite common. That doesn't mean it's necessarily right, but I do always find it curious when people claim that certain social mores survived 1000s of years, the rise and fall of empires and religions... and yet the only reason they did so is supposedly someone's depravity.
November 17th, 2017 at 12:16 PM ^
Not a lawyer so I'm 100% ignorant as to the legal aspect of this but...
How much of this is a liability/PR thing? Gotta think that U-M, the university of Ohio State, FSU and other schools are taking aim at Greek activities because they're visibly affiliated with their respective universities. It's certainly true that college students of almost every stripe except for seminary students major in binge drinking and hookups, but if I get shitfaced and fall off a roof at a party on some house on Packard, then it's the landlord's and my problem. Whereas if I the same at a IFC Tri-Delt mixer then it's at least partially the university's problem.
On a similar note, you can kind of extrapolate this to other issues regarding frat culture - shitty behavior is a universal constant and it's a little unfair to solely single out frats/sororities for this when they're by no means the only offenders. And even though I had no interest in that scene, I dislike it when they're labeled so dismissively - there are some great people in the Greek system and there are some wastes of DNA. Sometimes those two things overlap in the same person - just as with any other group.
That said, there are some toxic and uniquely ingrown aspects to frats/sororities - the issues with Alabama's sororites are the norm more so than the exception. And because they are collectively an organization that is part of the 'face' of the university it's not surprising that they are subject to additional scrutiny.
November 17th, 2017 at 3:09 PM ^
the Turkish government of the early 20th century.
Jokes aside, this doesn't really surprise me. The ethos and culture of sororities and fraternities is kind of the polar opposite of the direction that our universities have developed in since the late 60s. They would - regardless of misbehavior - been something at best barely tolerated by many university administrators. I doubt many university administrators were part of such associations either.
From the outside these organizations appear to be full of mindless rich kids who are 'earning' their future managerial high-level employment by being drinking buddies with the son of the CEO of some company or a U.S. senator. I have not been in a frat or sorority, so I couldn't tell ya if it's true or not. But let's just say my personal experience with people who have been in them is a decidedly mixed bag.
Banning them seems kinda harsh though, I mean it sure as hell doesn't seem like a very nuanced approach. It feels like universities these days can act very harshly and indiscriminately when they feel that they have a moral high ground and nobody in their echo chamber disagrees. They wouldn't act like this if they feared considerable backlash from within their circles or the political sphere (which would be the case if they acted like this vs other groups of students that misbehave).
November 17th, 2017 at 4:14 PM ^
Check out what happens when the NCAA uses a "nuanced approach" to handing out punishments. Nothing actually changes and people get to pat themselves on the back. Rant against universities all you want, but the "suspension" punishment evidently does nothing to solve the problem.
November 18th, 2017 at 10:10 AM ^
November 18th, 2017 at 10:10 AM ^