Blue in Paradise

February 14th, 2017 at 4:44 PM ^

the perpetrators are guilty of sexual assault and need to face stong punishment.  

However, I am not sure this meets the standard of "heinous" or "game-changing" acts (those are the words being bantied about in MSU circles - see podlink link below).  Those words imply something violent or worse happened to the victim.

Listen to the words this guy uses and troubled tone in his voice...

http://www.cosozo.com/sites/default/files/radio/audio/full/sn0869_0.mp3

 

 

Joined: 08/14/2016

MGoPoints: 36794

Everyone Murders

February 14th, 2017 at 5:06 PM ^

I think it's heinous when player B has unwelcome sex with another person.  That's straight up rape.  While the video recording of the act is undoubtedly some other crime, the heinous issue is that allegedly a woman told someone not to make sexual contact with her and he kept at it.

It gets game-changing when your team's "mentor" does not recognize this as rape, or does (more likely) and feels the "need" for a cover-up.  And thus tells the players to destroy the evidence. 

That takes it from a player issue to an institutional issue.  And that is a game changer.

(Assuming the story relayed above is what really happened.)

Joined: 12/14/2010

MGoPoints: 65552

Blue in Paradise

February 14th, 2017 at 7:18 PM ^

I said straight up that this was a really bad act and deserves serious punishment - I should have added the words horrible crime and hard time although in my mind this was implied. My point is that, unfortunately, there have been numerous sexual assaults / rapes that involved college athletes. This is the first time that I have heard numerous people attach the word "heinous". So to further clarify my point, any rape is a horrible crime that warrants significant jail time. But using the additional words of heinous and game-changing, to me, implied some sort of brutality or other atrocities on top of the sexual assault. Now, I could certainly be wrong and you can disagree with my definition of the word "heinous", Everybody Murders makes a compelling case, but don't come at me with fake outrage.

Joined: 08/14/2016

MGoPoints: 36794

MJs_PJ_Party

February 15th, 2017 at 2:30 PM ^

I listened and although I'm not familiar with Spartan reporting, it definitely sounds like this is a very connected Spartan reporter/fan.  

He makes this sound like a very bad situation.  I agree with your definition of "heinous" / "game-changing".  This is NOT to belittle the significance of sexual assault.  

It's more like different shades of a bad situation.  Perhaps we could liken it to Premeditated Murder vs. Manslaughter from running a red light.  Both are bad, but I think that we could all agree which is worse.  

In my mind, for the implications mentioned in the audio file and the description as "heinous", I think that this is a worse situation than what was initially suggested in this thread.

Joined: 08/18/2016

MGoPoints: 414

Real and Spectacular

February 14th, 2017 at 6:17 PM ^

The way that this is being told makes some things unclear. As in was the sex with player B consensual at first and then she said that's enough, or was it unwanted right away? How long did it continue? Was there physical violence and/or intimidation involved? there were two involved, was it occurring at the same time or did they switch out? I realize these questions sound insensitive and that is not the intent. Obviously any unwanted sexual contact is bad, but the details we don't know could really impact how "heinous" this crime really was. Either way it doesn't sound good, hopefully justice will prevail and the victim can overcome what happened.

Joined: 09/15/2016

MGoPoints: 5431

Year of Revenge II

February 14th, 2017 at 10:20 PM ^

I believe your story about this coming from the MSU circle, but if the allegations come in that way, it's going to be a difficult case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt unless non-consent is clearly documented on the video. The way the rumors are going, this might be the MSU inside circle "spin" on the events of that day or evening. The victim's side of the story might end up being something different.

Joined: 11/12/2013

MGoPoints: 9188

Kalamazoo Blue

February 14th, 2017 at 4:32 PM ^

Employees of governmental institutions have extra due process protections that employees of private organizations do not. Until that due process occurs, the public body can only suspend with pay or else face a lawsuit that will win based on legal precedent.

I'm a publicly-elected official in my town and learned about this the hard way. It's very frustrating. People get angry because there isn't immediate termination or suspension without pay at the very least.

Joined: 01/08/2010

MGoPoints: 1024

readyourguard

February 14th, 2017 at 3:42 PM ^

Only took a week for those crack journalists who cover MSU athletics to finally get some answers.

Then again, they still allow the Bullough incident to stay swept under the rug, so why am I surprised?

Joined: 08/21/2008

MGoPoints: 40986

Leaders And Best

February 14th, 2017 at 5:16 PM ^

Izzo was put in a bad position because the MSU AD was MIA, but Izzo essentially said it is better to be ignorant.

"Whether you believe this or not, I can look everybody in the eye here and you can read my body language -- you know more than I know," Izzo said. "For two reasons. One, is in this day and age, it's better to have less knowledge than more knowledge. Especially if you are the people on the outside."

Joined: 09/09/2009

MGoPoints: 22501

Njia

February 14th, 2017 at 6:52 PM ^

He may be right. This is one of those situations where he may not have been in a position to know any of what was going on apart from rumors and innuendo (if even that much). Since the programs involved are not his (so far) he can play dumb, avoiding culpability. On the other hand, it would have been better if he had just kept his mouth shut altogether. He's now on record saying he didn't know anything; if it turns out that he did, his goose is cooked.

Joined: 09/15/2009

MGoPoints: 35773

Year of Revenge II

February 14th, 2017 at 3:55 PM ^

The way this all is headed, Hollis may not survive either.

The sexual assault allegations are rumored to be very serious consequences wise, and this is on top of the gymnastics debacle.

Lord knows what they will dig up once the magnifying glass gets a full pass over all the paperwork previously under the rug.  

These situations have a way of mushrooming.  

Joined: 11/12/2013

MGoPoints: 9188

M-stache

February 14th, 2017 at 4:17 PM ^

You have criminal probes, lawsuits, and a commissioned investigation all going at once. Each of those will subpoena emails and documents that wind up in the public record. Add to that anything journalists dig up from FOIA or whistleblowers.

Even if nothing turns out to be Hollis' fault per se, I can't see trustees not demanding someone in the administration fall on the sword. 

 

Joined: 01/16/2009

MGoPoints: 357

Nolongerusingaccount

February 14th, 2017 at 4:53 PM ^

Who knows without more facts. To me, Penn State football was clearly an institutional failure and deserved every bit (and more) of punishment and scrutiny that came its way (it's the original reason why I have a mgoblog account to comment). I haven't read enough about the gymnastics program to comment, but with MSU football, it's not clear whether it was an institutional or not. It doesn't look good, but I hope this isn't anything like PSU/Baylor.

Joined: 07/13/2012

MGoPoints: 2264