The Talent Differential

Submitted by Bluestreak on

I see how the board is full of 'how this team has underperformed  yadda yadda.

Our talent differential compared to elite programs is still too wide

 

Consider this. Since 2013

- We have 4 recruits with 247 score above 98, OSU has 15, Alabama 26!!

- Put another way, for every Peppers we have, OSU has 4 equivalent difference makers, Alabama has 6.5 equivalent difference makers.

 

It doesn't get any better when we look lower down the depth chart.

- We have 21 recruits above a composite score of 95 since 2013, OSU has 44, Alabama 55

 

The point I'm trying to make is that unless we get an equivalent number of difference makers, having program that contends for National Championships is a pipedream. Unfortunately, all the top programs have similar high level player development and facilities. It comes down to having players with the highest ceilings and developing them to their potential.

 

Underperform is what OSU did (against Clemson).

Clemson had 16 recruits above a composite score of 95 ... compared to OSU - who had 33!You can tack some of that to youth but not all of it.

MGoStrength

January 2nd, 2017 at 9:00 AM ^

DPJ is the best WR we've had since Manningham.  Samuels will be a dynamic playmaker at RB, as is Evans IMO, and Harris too if we get him.  McCaffrey will be a dynamic QB.  

Yeoman

January 2nd, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^

It's not the first criterion that comes to mind when I think about my ideal quarterback, although I know that kind of player is fashionable. If I understand the word correctly, Terrelle Pryor was dynamic. Tom Brady was, and is, not. I'd take Brady over Pryor any day and that opinion is probably almost universal. Looking closer to home, I'd take a healthy Speight over J. T. Barrett. I want a quarterback who can get the ball where it needs to be, on time.

MGoStrength

January 2nd, 2017 at 5:54 PM ^

You wouldn't call sitting in the pocket, side stepping or stepping up in the pocket to avoid pressure, reading the defense accurately, and making big plays in key situations (he wasn't called the comeback kid for nothing) dynamic?  Brady is dynamic throwing the ball, Pryor was dynamic with his feet, both were dynamic, but in different ways.

Yeoman

January 2nd, 2017 at 10:08 PM ^

If "dynamic" is used as a synonym for "effective" I have no quarrel with it but it doesn't have much meaning left.

An internet search finds it commonly coupled with "dual-threat" and turns up the following list of "dynamic quarterbacks":

  • Baker Mayfield
  • J. T. Barrett
  • Robert Griffin III
  • Steve McNair
  • Kordell Stewart
  • Michael Vick
  • John Elway
  • Eli Manning
  • Sam Darnold
  • Cam Newton
  • Russell Wilson
  • Greg Ward
  • Patrick Mahomes
  • Doug Flutie

There are some damn good quarterbacks on that list, but it's a different type of player. (Although if there's a Darnold out there that wants to play for Michigan, that sounds good.) If I dug around a bit I'll bet I could find a "dynamic" Harbaugh reference too.

I specifically looked for a description of Brady or P. Manning as "dynamic" and can't find one...when I looked for Peyton I found Eli instead. Which was interesting. What's the real difference between them? To me it's that Peyton got the ball out so quick, was so efficient with his reads. Eli's not exactly Vick or Flutie back there, but unlike his brother he gets hiimself into situations where he has to start running around. I guess that's enough (probably helps if you play in New York).

 

pbmd

January 1st, 2017 at 11:47 PM ^

For the BEST coach, seems like Michigan and Harbaugh lose a lot of games at the very end that they almost had won- Msu, ,Iowa, osu, fsu
Only osu and Utah had Michigan beat before the very end
Did win a few at end IU, minney
But the BEST coach might prevent the collapse?



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kalamazoo

January 2nd, 2017 at 1:24 AM ^

I agree for the most part, but I feel that there are some conservative play calls at times that keep opponents in the game so that one turnover makes a difference (as it did last year vs. MSU).

For example, against FSU with 1st and 1 yard to the goal line after the turnover...was there anyone who was surprised that the play call was run up the middle?  Haven't we run 1st and goal more than 70% of the time this season? I was hoping if there was a run, it would have been 2 QB sneaks in a row (with running back fake over the top) or a jet sweep or a fake option just to keep FSU on their toes. Or if a throw, roll out Wilton and have him run it in or throw to the back of the end zone if open receiver.

Just something that's not so predictable.

That one series sums up how I've felt in a few close games this year and last. Some we win, and a few we lose.

With a little more talent, I believe Harbaugh can power through these games, but without it, have to scheme like Belichick. Hell, even Carr beat Florida with the spread in his last game...so just looking for a few more low-risk wrinkles that might be possible with the extra month of practice.

6tyrone6

January 2nd, 2017 at 2:59 AM ^

UM was 20th in 2014 and 37th in 2015 and only 15 players. Harbaugh produced what you would hope one of the best coaches in all of football would, back to back 10 win seasons and in the CFC conversation in year 2. The last time UM was relevant todays recruits were 8 years old. Harbaugh being Harbaugh has made UM relevant in a year really. Turned a decade of despair into we are back.

Ghost of Fritz…

January 2nd, 2017 at 11:14 AM ^

The worst effect of the low ranked 2014 and 2015 classes will be felt...in 2017.

So most of the 2016 class (and even several members of the 2017 class) are going to be filling in that gap and will have to take on major roles 1 to 2 years earlier than is optimal. 

 

 

BlueWon

January 2nd, 2017 at 10:31 AM ^

against MSU last year. He did not save a timeout for the punt and should have at least taken a delay of game penalty after seeing Dantonio was selling out for a block.

O'Neil was a very accurate punter. UM should have gone max protect and had him punt the ball put of bounds. I would have liked our chances against Sparty on a single play when they would have had 70+ yards to go.

nappa18

January 2nd, 2017 at 12:37 PM ^

So true. Have been saying this since 10-17-2015. Maybe it was on Baxter but having Lewis as a gunner with no MSU returner on the field was inexplicable. Real brain freeeze. Surprised not more was ever made of this but I'm still surprised Harbaugh and Baxter didn't take more heat on this. And I love Harbaugh as our Coach, we are lucky to have him and hope he stays for a Bo like career.(21 years).

MGoStrength

January 2nd, 2017 at 9:02 AM ^

IMO this again all comes back to the o-line.  It's hard to win on the road and be unpredictable when you don't have offensive balance and can't run the ball.  If we can run effectively and get some push from our o-line we dominate those games.

UMForLife

January 2nd, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^

It should not be based on what school they are at. If Belichick takes the job at ILL, I would still put him being the best coach. It is not easy to coach at some universities because of the standards. By record in college football, I agree with your ranking.

g_reaper3

January 2nd, 2017 at 12:19 PM ^

If you go by what has been accomplished, I think you would have to put Saban first and Meyer second.  They are the only active coaches with mulitple national titles and both did it at 2 schools. 

Based on accomplishment, not even sure Harbaugh would be third as one could argue that a Chris Peterson or Jimbo Fisher has accomplished more.

But Harbaugh has a pretty short college coaching career compared to Saban, Meyer and Peterson.  In each situation he has been in, there has been quick improvement.  But he has never really stuck around long enough to get his machine rolling as there was always a better opportunity to move on to.  Closest thing was his last year at Stanford where he had a very good season, finishing #4 and 12-1. If you looked at future potential, Harbaugh could be the best of the bunch. 

Even if possible, I dont think I would trade him for any other college coach right now.  Saban is getting up in age.  If I had to trade him, I would take in order:  Meyer, Peterson, Saban (only 3rd due to age). 

Mr. Yost

January 1st, 2017 at 11:05 PM ^

For one game. No biggie. If you want to be elite year after year...recruiting matters. Talent development matters. CHEMISTRY matters. Building a program and consistency matters.

We're getting there for sure. We're on our way. But we've still got some room to grow.

Harbaugh wasn't gift wrapped an elite program. He's going to have to build it and that's what he's doing. We're coming, no question about it.

B-Nut-GoBlue

January 1st, 2017 at 11:08 PM ^

Wellll yea. It's why Saban et al oversigining is a big deal. Probably doesn't matter as much anymore as the elite talent is going there anyway. But building up that program, it certainly helped the process (of stockpiling the talent).

Roy G. Biv

January 2nd, 2017 at 12:05 AM ^

It's not just the talent and the development, both which are the best in the game right now.  When was the last time you saw Alabama lose a game due to their own mistakes?  Blown coverages, blocking assignments, etc?  They simply don't it.  Their execution is what IMO sets them, and Saban, apart from everyone.

pbmd

January 2nd, 2017 at 12:46 AM ^

The point is ...teams either can compete as hard as saban or stay home and watch saban on TV as Alabama wins the national championship.
come up with any reason they want to explain why Alabama nearly always wins.



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MGolem

January 2nd, 2017 at 1:03 AM ^

But he also wins because he has the best players. Its easier to get the best players if you win. It is easier to get the best players on the field when you run off those who fail to develop. It is easier to have more players to choose from (within your own ranks) when you bend the rules on how many guys you sign. When Saban was at MSU, and he was held to a higher standard, and had to recruit against an in-state power dominating recruiting, he was just good. Nothing special. Saban's best skill may just be understanding the lay of the land and making it work to his advantage. He is great. But he is shady too. I don't think we want any part of that at Michigan. People say Saban would still be coaching the Dolphins if Drew Brees passed his physical. Essentially he was not special enough to win without elite talent. Not really trying to compare the two but Harbaugh won big in the NFL with Alex Smith, who everyone had written off, and a kid who played his college ball at Nevada...Give Harbaugh time to do it his way and the results we want will come.

Ghost of Fritz…

January 2nd, 2017 at 11:20 AM ^

Does an honest and realistic conversation about playing time prospects before the 5th year count as runnning guys off?  Not to me. 

So far I seen no evidence of the stuff Alabama, LSU, etc., etc. have done, such as cutting RS sophomores with invented injuries or telling a true freshman that his scholarship is yanked just after he has already moved into the dorm. 

B-Nut-GoBlue

January 2nd, 2017 at 11:23 AM ^

Saban is great, no issue saying it. However there are many factors and reasons that have gune into how can now say that. It's worth exploring those factors and oversigning happens to be one of them. (He didn't leave East Lansing and wake up one day as the greatest coach of student athletes ever)

YouRFree

January 1st, 2017 at 11:08 PM ^

Given Harbaugh enough time, he will catch up. Not only that, he's the very few head coach that can develope QB on his own, we don't have to worry about QB play whoever comes in. I am wondering if Harbaugh is willing to take a good dual threat QB in the future. With good running ability, it just add one more dimension in offense. It's probably hard to fnd those kind of kids with Harbaugh's standard in passing. But it's not necesarily impossible. Especially, we have enough QB depth now, we can take a risk to take a great ahelete as QB, worse case, he can probably convert to a WR.

SeattleWolverine

January 1st, 2017 at 11:09 PM ^

No one thinks we should be beating Alabama, bit of a strawman there.

 

 What are the numbers for Clemson, WA, PSU, OK, WI, FSU, USC? 

 

Any weighting for seniority e.g. Phil Steele' system?

 

Have you looked at any NFL draft projections for 2017? Which schools have the most senior talent there?

Stringer Bell

January 1st, 2017 at 11:09 PM ^

I don't buy this.  We had 3 projected 1st rounders, and like 9 or 10 projected draft picks in total, which is the most or 2nd most in the country. Just because a guy isn't a star recruit doesn't mean he's not talented.  This team underachieved, it's ok to admit.  10-3, got outplayed by freaking Iowa and a FSU team that lost by 40+ to Louisville.  This team didn't reach its potential, not even close IMO.