Oly- this USA team has 4 GOATs on it?
This incarnation of the USA Olympics team probably has FOUR of the greatest-of-all-time athletes in their Olympic sports.
Michael Phelps - men's swimming -- 22 gold medals in 4 Olympics and a block-M tattoo.
Simone Biles - women's gymnastics -- 3 straight world championships followed by Oly gold medal. Won the all-around with a larger margin of victory than the last 7 Olympic champs combined. Hardest routines in history of sport. Will probably earn 3 more golds (floor, beam, vault). Utterly dominant over the competition. No female gymnast of any era can claim to be as dominant or as good as she is.
Melo -- men's basketball -- OK this is debatable, BUT: While he's not Jordan or Kobe and his NBA skillz and career aren't GOAT ... in the Olympics, he's USA's all-time scorer and this year will become the first male basketball player ever to win 3 straight golds. Carried the team (with Irving) the other night, showing how he's elevated to being the team leader. This is arguable, but if you asked who is the "best" Olympian on men's hoops, he probably has to be your first answer.
Kerri Walsh Jennings - women's beach volleyball -- 3 straight Olympic golds and a fourth in sight (with a different partner this time).
Katie Ledecky may some day be on this list, but at the moment she is not the GOAT in women's swimming. Yet.
August 12th, 2016 at 1:22 PM ^
If longevity and scoring totals are what counts in your book, then surely Oscar Schmidt is the greatest Olympic basketball player of all time.
Schmidt scored 1,094 points in his Olympic career for Brazil. To put that into perspective, Carmelo has scored 293.
August 12th, 2016 at 9:49 AM ^
I think it's really hard to put someone on this list from a team sport (not counting beach volleyball or relays as a team sport) because Melo is really only on here because he'll be the most accomplished Olympic basketball player. He's only been in the top 10 in one statistical category (per game stats) for any of the Olympics he's participated in. I'd put KD in over him if you have to choose a bball player. He'll only have his second gold, but he's been a top 10 scorer both Olympics (assuming he continues to score at his current rate).
And I believe Sylvia Fowles has been on two previous gold medal teams and this would be the third. And she's been a bigger part of the women's success than Melo has been of the men's.
August 12th, 2016 at 9:46 AM ^
And I think the fact that Melo would be the first player to win 3 straight golds is a little skewed because before '92 players were unlikely to play in more than 2 Olympics because they went pro. Since then there have obviously been many opportunities for other players to do that as well. But I feel like it was something of an unwritten rule that a lot of the NBA dudes would step aside and give other up-and-coming stars a chance at Olympic gold. Most of the Dream Team easily could've come back for '96 and even some for 2000. But I don't think that's really a thing anymore.
I'm sorry, I'm a Knicks fan and I just hate Carmelo. In the pro game - when he's not surrounded by superstars and therefore thinks he has to be the man - he sucks. He's a ballhog and time seems to stop in critical moments. The Knicks just hand him the ball, he stands there for 10-15 seconds and then hucks up an ill-advised shot that clangs off the rim. Game over. (Sorry - when it comes to Olympic glory, it irks me to see Melo mentioned in the same breath as Biles, Phelps and Kerry Walsh) But you're right, he's incredibly good in Olympic play and probably one of the best of all time)
And I second that GoBlue 96- Ledecky is demolishing everyone.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:34 AM ^
In fact, before '92 almost no one ever played two Olympics in basketball (at least for the U.S.). It was for college guys and you'd get your one chance (which really sucked for the 1980 team when we boycotted Moscow).
August 12th, 2016 at 9:53 AM ^
Melo really is one of the best international players ever, and I say this as a Nuggets fan who has no love lost for Melo (Even though I give him props for telling Nuggets management a year in advance he was leaving so they could trade him).
August 12th, 2016 at 9:54 AM ^
August 12th, 2016 at 9:59 AM ^
She's called the GOAT due to the degree of difficulty. She is successfully doing routines that have never been attempted in competition.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:02 AM ^
August 12th, 2016 at 10:34 AM ^
That's just the progression of the sport. That's like saying Shawn White is the GOAT because he was doing the hardest tricks ever. Now, 10 years later, the stuff he was doing is commonplace.
I do think Biles has a case for being so far in front of her competition at her moment in time. It's hard to judge for gymnists that only have a few years though whether she's truly dominant or her competition just has been in a soft patch.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:50 AM ^
Leading up to the Olympics Biles won gold in the all-around at the last 3 World Championships. She's the first women to win 3 straight golds in the all around at Worlds. What she's doing in the Olympics is just her coming out party to the rest of the world that only tunes into gymnastics every 4 years.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:15 AM ^
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August 12th, 2016 at 10:21 AM ^
In fact, I'm not even sure I would call Ledecky the best female swimmer at these olympics. Katinka Hosszu will end these olympics with most likely one more gold than Ledecky and she got gold in the 200 IM and 400 IM which show that she's not just great at one stroke.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:45 AM ^
But that's only because her screaming husband started coaching her!
-NBC
August 12th, 2016 at 11:17 AM ^
You act like Ledecky is a one trick pony. Yes she specializes in one stroke but she's dominant in sprints and distance. If 1500m was an event in the Olympics, she would win by several seconds. The fact that she won the 200m, 4x200m, 400m, will win the 800m, and on top of that won a silver in the 4x100m relay shows that she is diversified. I agree she's probably not the GOAT yet but freestyle is the most important stroke and she is already the most dominant freestyle female swimmer of all time. Give her four more years of training and development (assuming she doesn't become the next Missy Franklin) and I think she'll at least join the GOAT conversation.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:26 AM ^
A couple comments from a former swimmer:
(1) The IM argument isn't realy the best argument to make. Competing in the IM doesn't require some type of additional level of skill, time to train, or effort to be good. In general you can think of it like this: IM swimmers are just swimmers that decide to train for the IM. The winner of the IM events is no more special than the winner of any other event.
(2) Competing and winning in multiple strokes is little more difficult than just swimming one, as a swimmer may find themselves competing against other swimmers that concentrate on only one stroke. For example, Phelps is going up against guys in the 100 Fly that are exclusively Flyers. That being said, there is quite a bit of carryover between Free, Back, and Fly so while it is a bit more impressive its not excactly multi-sport, Bo jackson territory. So we can give Hosszu some props for being a winner in the IMs and the 200 Back (assuming she takes gold).
(3) What is probably the most impressive feat in swimming is being good across muliple and/or large distances (this is the same as track and field). Looking at Ladecky, her gold in the 200 combined with a gold in the 800 is impressive by itself, but when you consider that she holds the WR in 1500 (which they don't have for women in the Olympics) she is a much more impressive swimmer that Hosszu.
By the way, 528.com did a pretty good piece on Ladecky. They looked at historical data across the events she swims and it shows some pretty eye opening thinngs.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/katie-ledecky-is-the-present-and-th…
August 12th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^
Interesting. I am definitely no swimming expert, so I figured being really good in the various strokes would be more difficult than swimming different distances just because of the technical differences you have to master. Knowing that I was in fact wrong, I definitely give Ledecky more props.
August 12th, 2016 at 12:22 PM ^
Compare it to track. The swimming 100 is like the track 400. 200 -> 800. Ledecky has won gold in the 200 and 400, huge favorite for the 800, and would win the 1500 if it was swum here (side note: why is it not? no idea...its swum at other high-level international meets). For track, that would be like winning in the 800, mile, 2-mile, and 5k (not a perfect interpolation), plus medalling in the 4x400. That would be incredible for a track athlete!
August 12th, 2016 at 12:46 PM ^
Not sure on the 1500, but my assumption is that it is a remant from the bad ole days when womens events were designed to be less strenuous than mens. Perhaps I'm dating myself a bit, but I can remember the first Olympic women's marathon won by Joan Benoit. It was way back in 1984. That's right, a mere 40 years ago we still didn't let women run a marathon in the Olympics.
August 12th, 2016 at 1:18 PM ^
Definitely impressive. But I would also be very impressed if a sprinter could be the top in the world at the 200m sprint and 400m sprint as well as 200m hurdles and 400m hurdles. That's obviously not a 1 to 1 comparison with the various swimming strokes, but you get the point.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^
Interesting. I am definitely no swimming expert, so I figured being really good in the various strokes would be more difficult than swimming different distances just because of the technical differences you have to master. Knowing that I was in fact wrong, I definitely give Ledecky more props.
August 12th, 2016 at 1:09 PM ^
Thank you for posting this so I didn't have to.
Ledeky is so good I woudn't be surprised if she picked up even the 100 Free later in her career.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:50 AM ^
I agree. I think Biles will eventually be the greatest female gymnast of all time. But at this point in time, she has two medals, one of which is for the team (which she obviously played a big part in). She's won three straight all around gold medals at the World Championships, so I think we can all say she is the best gymnast right now. But she's gotta have at least one more Olympics to say she's the GOAT. But if she medals in all the individuals this year, with mostly golds then I think there's an argument for including her.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^
4 years ago a lot of people were saying similiar things about Missy Franklin after she won 5 medals (4 gold) at the London Olympics. Franklin is going to leave Rio without a single medal in these Olympics.
August 12th, 2016 at 9:54 AM ^
Most would choose KD over Melo. Durant's the 2nd best player in the world. Much better all around than Steph as he has a more ideal speed/size combo as does Lebron. Melo is a great scorer but KD is better overall.
August 12th, 2016 at 9:58 AM ^
They are talking about the olympics, Melo plays much better for team USA than he does in the NBA.
Also I'll take this thread to point out that currently the state of MD is second in the world in gold medals so far this olympics. So you are welcome for carrying the country on our back.
August 12th, 2016 at 9:59 AM ^
But otherwise great list and I agree.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:23 AM ^
+1 Seinfeld reference
August 12th, 2016 at 10:04 AM ^
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August 12th, 2016 at 10:05 AM ^
Melo is a garbage player and garbage teemate. No thanks.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:12 AM ^
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August 12th, 2016 at 10:12 AM ^
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August 12th, 2016 at 10:33 AM ^
August 12th, 2016 at 10:46 AM ^
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August 12th, 2016 at 10:57 AM ^
So are we spoiled by Phelps and even Lochte that we don't recognize how good she is? Could she really be considered the best womens swimmer ever? Who else would be considered? Honest question.
August 12th, 2016 at 1:49 PM ^
Swimmers have more longevity and so she needs to do it over a greater span of time than say, Simone Biles, would. Ledecky has had a run for the ages, but to be a GOAT she has to do it consistently, otherwise she's Missy Franklin, a fun story for one Olympics who seemingly caught lightning in a bottle. That said I fully expect Ledecky to get there and she is an amazing competitor, but she's gotta maintain the streak. I don't feel like her previous Olympics counted towards the multiple competitons standard as she only competed in one event.
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August 12th, 2016 at 11:17 AM ^
is very similiar to what Missy Franklin did in London. Franklin won 4 golds and 1 bronze with 2 world record times and 3 american record times.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:38 AM ^
Yeah, with the swimmers at least, you have to demonstrate staying power over a few Olympics to be in GOAT discussion. There have been a number of swimmers who've had one monster Games.
August 12th, 2016 at 10:47 AM ^
August 12th, 2016 at 11:08 AM ^
She has the 400 WR by 4 seconds, the 800 WR by 8 seconds, and the 1500 WR by 27 seconds (a pool length). She's only off the 200m WR by .75 seconds.
August 12th, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^
August 12th, 2016 at 10:15 AM ^
The Olympics only come around every four years and you have to abbreviate it to "Oly"?
August 12th, 2016 at 10:32 AM ^
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August 12th, 2016 at 10:32 AM ^
August 12th, 2016 at 10:43 AM ^
A "GOAT" has to be evidently, clearly the GOAT. We're talking "Serena or Martina" (when really nobody else comes close). Or at least with a body of work to judge fairly to parse details. Jordan was the clear leader of the Dream Team and the 1984 gold medal team. It's pretty hard to say Melo has clearly surpassed him. He never even led a team in scoring, and was on the 2004 team that got the bronze (granted, the youngest member on the team, but roughly the same age as Jordan in 1984).
August 12th, 2016 at 10:54 AM ^
Well Serena did just get bounced early in doubles and singles. If we're talking just Olympics.. that's worse than Melo's bronze, oh and he was coming off his rookie year then.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:13 AM ^
I was referring to the concept of a GOAT discussion in general. Those two stand out above all comers. Maybe someone could argue Steffi Graf, but they would lose that argument.
It's a bit silly to say someone is the GOAT basketball olympian when we have various other elite-level data points for the exact same sport. It's an arbitrary slice of a category - unless we had seen some vast difference in performance. In that sense, perhaps Manu Ginobili is the GOAT becuase he led a decennt Argentina team to a gold medal. Nobody else has accomplished anything like that in the "sport" of olympic basketball.
For swimming, gymnastics, track and field, figure skating, it is the place where GOAT distinctions are won. Tennis and basketball, not so much.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:41 AM ^
Yeah actually, Manu I would buy.
August 12th, 2016 at 11:55 AM ^
Those two stand out above all comers. Maybe someone could argue Steffi Graf, but they would lose that argumentGraf and Serena both have 22 Grand Slams. Graf holds the record for most weeks at #1. What makes the argument airtight in Serena's favor?
August 12th, 2016 at 11:59 AM ^
August 12th, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^