A history on how Michigan Basketball used to recruit

So basically, the OP did a really good and thorough job of explaining that when we were cheating like everyone else we got better-rated recruits and comparable on-court results to now when we're not cheating.

Those 2 were outright disasters even though they will yeild some decent players, only because they failed to capitalize on the great on-court success. The '14 and '15 classes are huge marks against Beilein, but the 3 classes before that were outstanding.

Michigan should recruit a couple Top 100 players every year (on average). Asking the recruiting class to rank in the top 20 consistently isn't unreasonable, with occassional dips into the top 10.  Beilein doesn't need top 5 talent, but he does need NBA-caliber players to win titles.

The 2016 class is totally acceptable even though it was disappointing how it played out vs how it COULD have played out.

I never heard that story before.  It's kind of hard to believe.  But even if he had come here it would have been one and done I'm pretty sure.

The problem, imho, is beilien does not recruit in Michigan. I know the talent is not what it used to be, but there is still talent. I mean did he even attempt to recruit dreymond green? I know most people don't like him around these parts, but if he were a wolverine, everyone would love him. Izzo, as much as I hate to say it, recruits Michigan like no other. I remember seeing him at my college roomates eighth grade game. He recruits the hard and early. Valentine, as much as I hate his guts, is up for national player of the year, and he is from Lansing. Beilien is going to have to get his hands dirty and go to these areas in Michigan with talent. If he can recruit a kid from Germany, he can go to flint, Saginaw and Detroit.

And now we're hamstrung because of it (and why they took down the first Final Four banner even though we won the tournament regional with all eligible players). Hopefully the next coach is far enough removed from the Fab Five years that he's allowed to recruit like our competitors, and no, that doesn't mean we have to cheat (as if the Fab Five came to Michigan because of money). 

 

the 80s on this list had 8-9 guys that had solid careers; 5-6 elite (ie. all BIG ten or better type)

the 90s had 9-10 guys with solid careers; 7-8 elite.

so about one successful player per year overall.

under JB 9-10 guys thus far with solid careers; 5-6 elite.

it all looks very similar to me; an average of one good player per year with similar elite players.  except JB has two BIG titles during his tenure vs two in the mid 80s for those years on this list; a final game appearance, another elite 8 appearance and NO hint of impropriety.

 

It's kind of funny that people didn't like having a football coach who recruited well and coached teams that underperformed their recruiting rankings (Hoke) and don't like having a coach who recruits poorly but coaches teams that outperform their recruiting rankings (Beilein).

Having said that, I'm getting increasingly frustrated with some of our recruiting practices.  I'm fine not aggressively cheating to get guys even if that means that we won't recruit at the same level as Calipari, Izzo, etc.  But so many of our recruiting wounds seem self-inflicted and unrelated to abiding by rules.  It shouldn't be the case that guys like Xavier Simpson and Jaylen Brown need to reach out to Michigan to draw interest, just like our last minute outreach to Josh Jackson looks ridiculous.  Beilein needs an assistant from the Harbaugh recruiting mold -- play within the rules but be damn creative and aggressive as you do.

The number of people who defend being second fiddle to MSU is downright sickening.  We should be the best school in the state.  Sorry for those who don't feel that way.

I got out of this thread is that OP is kind of a douche.

Sorry this is going to be a bit long, but I just want to present the facts.

 

So MaizeHaze, is your complaint that Beilein isn't recruiting at the same level as Michigan did in the 80's and 90's, or that the basketball team isn't as good as they were in the 80's and 90's?

Recruiting is not at the same level, we could re-hash prior arguments of why that is but it is pointless. Beilein is not recruiting at the level Michigan was in the 80's and 90's, that is accurate based on pure recruiting rankings and you aren't happy with that, anyone who tries to give you reasons other then Beilein you just call them excuses and say they are apologists, that isn't getting us anywhere.

But what about the actual performance on the basketball court? In the twelve years prior to Frieder they made the tournament three times and won two Big Ten Titles. Frieder came in and they missed the tournament for four more years (for a total of seven straight non tournament years), then lost in the second round for three straight years, winning the Big Ten twice, made a Sweet Sixteen then 88-89 happened.

Fischer comes in with the Championship, then proceeds to loss in the second round and then miss the tournament. The Fab Five comes in to town and loses in the championship game twice. Next four years go Elite 8, first round loss, first round loss and miss the tournament.

Then the dead years happen, which you ignore, so I will too. In comes Beilein, misses the tournament, 2nd round, misses the tournament, 2nd round, Big Ten title and first round loss. Followed by the Louisville loss, an Elite 8, tourney miss and now a first round loss.

So on the Court, Beilein is better then Orr, probably as good as Frieder, both won two Big Ten titles, Frieder made the tournery five times, including the Championship year, and Beilein has made six.

Now Beilein vs Fischer is interesting. How do you count the Championship, was it Frieder? Fischer? Half of each? Some other %? But after that Fischer made the tournery six out of eight years, two championship game losses and no Big Ten titles. Beilein has made it six out of nine years, with one championship game loss and two Big Ten Titles.

So how do you judge that, Fischer has half a Championship(?), two other championship game losses and no Big Ten Titles. Beilein has one championship game loss, not even half a Championship and two Big Ten titles. Fischer did better in the tournery, vs. Beilein has better regular seasons? Which is more important? Now MaizeHaze, I am sure you will say Fischer is clearly better then Beilein, and Frieder was too, and I am some kind of Beilein apologist. But I am just presenting the facts man.

If you want a better recruiter, then yes, we need to get rid of Beilein, but as far as the actual performance of the basketball team Beilein has at the very least matched the historical regular season performance, if not quite the fivish year tournament performance peak.

 

TLDR - Just the facts.

Big drop off in talent in the state. Look at how many of those top ten kids back in the day were from Michigan. The state just doesn't crank out the elite talent like it used to.

Many folks here are talking about Michigan needing to recruit elite players. An assumption underlying that is that Michigan would have to cheat to get those guys.

If that assumption is true, is that something we as a program/university/fan base would be okay with?

What I love most about college sports, as opposed to professional, is that the ties are based on something other than money. I love Michigan because I graduated from there. I love the players; they put in the time, sweat for the same institution and, ultimately, for my enjoyment.

What I would hate to see happen is that Michigan turns into a one and done factory. Sure, the wins would be great, but at that point, I'm just following a professional team. And that's not something I want, even if it means the team I love recruits and performs at a level below other elite institutions.

How do others feel about this? I know where MaizeHaze stands. 

As an aside, continuing to ask how people would feel about Harbaugh not chasing a top local kid is ludicrous. Football recruiting is vastly different than basketball. Players have to be at college for three years. There often are not handlers that have to be paid. And remember Cam Newton? If this site's reaction is an indication of where folks stand, Michigan fans would not be okay with paying football players or their families. So, let's just stick to apples-to-apples comparisons. And cease the belittling of others.