Reuben Riley fired from Wyoming coaching job for being "too physical"
Not sure if anyone saw this, but I think this absolutely sucks for Ruben. A Michigan guy just doing his job and some disrespectful student goes off and possibly ruins a great guy's career. Hopefully, there are some good MGO Lawyers out there to help Ruben get his job back. This just makes me sick.
January 29th, 2016 at 4:56 PM ^
There's enough evidence here to say that level of violence wasn't warranted here. It should be obvious.
You're really hanging on the single fact a girl said she was in the hallway and saw the kid taking swings at Riley. You seem to assume that the school district somehow opted not to consider that at all in their decision. You seem to assume that that there wouldn't also surveillance video from the hallway. Both of these assumptions are highly unlikely, yet both are necessary to sustain your argument. It's just as silly as your unsupported conclusory statements that "the mother's only reaction was supposed tears" and "her son is such an a-hole."
And the elephant in the room among the obvious points that you're actively choosing to ignore is that the video evidence didn't just show the slam, it also showed what occurred immediately before the slam, which was Riley pushing the kid. It wasn't self-defense. You're argument that self-defense was a possibility is moot.
Sorry I didn't add the "unless it's needed to prevent some greater harm" like I did to my earlier post (which you responded to and thus were aware of), but it's not relevant context here, as there's enough to say the slam was not necessary.
It's pretty silly how you actually read and responded to my earlier post that said that, yet apparently went out your way to pretend you didn't so you could take what I wrote of context and write a lengthy post going on and on with assertions that I don't think people have a right to defend themselves. When you have to go to that level of deception with regard to your argument, you're probably wrong. At the very least, you're silly and don't at all seem like an honest cop.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:14 PM ^
January 29th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^
You don't know what a better cop would have done because you don't know all the details of what happened. A cop may have had to use brute force to subdue him for all you know.
January 29th, 2016 at 7:27 PM ^
Appears this is a reply to my comment way way up there, but it's not responsive. My post was a response to the one above mine, in which the poster stated he was a cop. He made a number of assertions of fact in his post for which there is simply no basis to have made. I was saying a better cop wouldn't do that.
January 30th, 2016 at 3:31 AM ^
Honestly in this case it's the child that is endangering their own saftey with their own behavior. Trying to physically fight a teacher is not being a kid. It's being an asshole.
It's not Riley's fault that the students parents have failed to instill discipline in their child.
January 29th, 2016 at 2:20 PM ^
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January 29th, 2016 at 7:09 PM ^
January 29th, 2016 at 2:21 PM ^
I wonder what kind of treatment this kid gets when he returns to his peers. Will they mock him for crying on tv or will they bow down to him because he was able to get an adult fired.
January 29th, 2016 at 2:22 PM ^
January 29th, 2016 at 2:28 PM ^
January 29th, 2016 at 2:35 PM ^
January 29th, 2016 at 2:37 PM ^
His public statement makes me shudder a little bit.
"I don’t know how to think of teachers anymore,” the teen said. “I thought they were supposed to be supportive and like not hit you and stuff."
January 29th, 2016 at 3:00 PM ^
And kids are supposed to like, not be disruptive, and follow directions.
January 29th, 2016 at 2:37 PM ^
As someone who works in secondary education dealing with students with emotional and behavior issues I've seen on more than one occassion where students have exaggerated situations like this to try to make themselves look better and get back at an adult that has upset them, and administration can be very quick to back parents over an employee to prevent any kind of bad publicity. If it is true then by all means he should have been fired, and I really hope the district did a lot more investigation of the event that the reporter led on to.
January 29th, 2016 at 2:39 PM ^
Regarding comments:
"The trouble with kids these days..."
Is currently our most likely translation of the first three pictographs in the oldest cave paintings yet discovered.
Later in this cave are drawings of animals that signify the end of the world is coming soon and the cavemen should all prepare.
Regarding Reuben:
Via friends who played with him he's getting screwed. They called in the football coach to deal with the kid because the kid seemed too dangerous for literally any other staffer to handle.
January 29th, 2016 at 2:47 PM ^
That's extremely telling if true.
January 29th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^
I've decided I really, really don't want to be part of the wussification of America, so I'm now for the summary execution of everyone. No one can call me soft.
This is not meant as a comment on this situation, which I know almost nothing about.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:14 PM ^
Via friends who played with him he's getting screwed. They called in the football coach to deal with the kid because the kid seemed too dangerous for literally any other staffer to handle.
Then he's getting screwed by his own administration and poor decision making.
If a kid is too dangerous for staff to handle - you call the cops... not find the biggest staff member to thrust into the situation.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:17 PM ^
And WTF do you do while waiting for the cops? Let the kid rampage? Probably yes, right? Just wow.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:45 PM ^
It didn't seem from the article like he was rampaging until Reuben showed up and he started taking swings. Seems like it was still escalating when he was called. I could be wrong, but I would imagine that if they have time to find wherever the football coach happens to be in the building and get him to a certain room, they could've found someone with the proper training to handle him (as opposed to giant dude who coaches our giant dudes) or called the cops. Not saying Reuben did anything wrong, but they put him in a really bad situation there.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:55 PM ^
I'm just speaking in generalities here, not necessarily specific to this situation. I was responding to a general comment about how these things should be handled.
January 29th, 2016 at 4:10 PM ^
That's true. If a kid is rampaging then you have to subdue him somehow. When they're elementary age or so you can just let that happen because they can't really hurt you and you can stop them with relative ease. With a 15 year old, you could have a beast on your hands (like all these recruits from 2018 and 2019 we've offered). So yes, you have to restrain a student who is going off. It doesn't seem like Reuben was qualified to do this other than being a large man. Either there were likely other people in the building trained to handle this exact situation who weren't called or the school did a really poor job of training its staff.
January 29th, 2016 at 4:32 PM ^
Yes.
1) clear the room
2) Let the police remove him
3) Expulsion
Or... you can have your un-trained, non-law enforcement, Dean of Students and Assistant football coach try to physically remove him... which has cost that school employee his job, has him arraigned on simple assault and battery charges, and will likely lead to civil lawsuits against Riley and Wyoming schools.
January 29th, 2016 at 4:14 PM ^
Well, regardless of whether Riley was in the right to injure the kid, and regardless of whether this hearsay from his teammates is correct that the kid was acting so dangerously, I can't imagine the people who decided to call in the biggest football guy they had around to handle the situation weren't looking for someone to use physical intimidation and muscle to handle the situation (although, even if Riley was explicitly asked to use intimidation and muscle, he should've known better).
So the school staff that made the decision and the administration sound like bigtime assholes too. Hey, maybe that's why they have problem kids at their school in the first place?
January 29th, 2016 at 5:00 PM ^
I really should add that this doesn't come from talking to him. Just those guys on facebook having reactions.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:42 PM ^
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January 29th, 2016 at 3:52 PM ^
I'm pretty sure you just called me a caveman, but that's alright.
January 29th, 2016 at 2:46 PM ^
and I doubt any of you do either.
(climbs off soapbox)
January 29th, 2016 at 2:47 PM ^
The article references minor head injuries amongst othe rinjuries. Slamming him on th eground is tough for any lawyer to assist with.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:00 PM ^
January 29th, 2016 at 3:05 PM ^
Time was, it was Wyoming Park and Wyoming Rogers. Maybe they merged?
I think you need to analyze this situation from the perspective that a teacher was violent with a student, and not be colored by the fact that the teacher was a former Michigan player.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:24 PM ^
the district 4 years ago. Park HS became a middle school. Rogers became the main HS and are a Class A HS for athletics. Known as the Wolves now.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:12 PM ^
Working in schools is such a tough job. You can do everything right in your job for years and go above and beyond for you students, but if you screw up once in a "heat of the moment" situation you can rightfully be terminated.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:22 PM ^
I wonder what his training in his current position or in any related previous positions might have been for these types of situations.
Perhaps someone should look into that.
Just a thought.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:25 PM ^
throw kids on the ground, you just can't.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:33 PM ^
"throw" can mean many things. Video would be helpful.
Sometimes, what might be a legal physical restraint can look to the untrained eye as "throwing" a person to the ground.
Just saying.....
January 29th, 2016 at 3:37 PM ^
My girlfriend works with autistic kids. Has to learn all kinds of holds to subdue kids who are often much larger and stronger than her. Sometimes you just have to pin a kid...except in her case the kids can't exactly help themselves at times. They just react to really simple things with violence.
In this case, the kid knew better. It seems like the football coach was called in because no one else could really take care of it. It does not seem like Reuben knew how to place the kid in a proper hold and may have used force, but you have to fight force with force sometimes, especially when the kid knows exactly what they are doing and are just pushing all they can against authority. If the kid was viewed as a physical threat and Reuben never had the proper training, then he never should have been brought into the room in the first place. They could have called a conduct officer or someone with that kind of training, but not just the biggest guy they can find.
I put this on whoever called him to that room as they put him in a very difficult situation and expected him to deal with it in a way he likely wasn't trained for. [Ed: and the kid, of course. Can't swing at a teacher, coach, cop, or any other authority figure for that matter, and expect it to go well for you. Kid should be suspended or expelled depending on the details of what went down.]
January 29th, 2016 at 4:16 PM ^
Do you know for a fact that Reuben has "never had the proper training" or that he "knew how to place the kid in a proper hold"?
Since your girlfriend knows how to properly restrain a young person, then you would know that legitimate restraints that have been learned through training can often look like assaults to those who are not likewise trained.
Maybe Reuben has been likewise trained. Perahps someone should verify that before passing judgment.
January 29th, 2016 at 4:29 PM ^
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rueben-riley-52187994
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January 29th, 2016 at 8:45 PM ^
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January 29th, 2016 at 9:17 PM ^
It looks as if he certainly had training at a previous job.
The problem, however, is what kind of policies Wyoming H.S. had for these kinds of situations. Though I am not an attorney, maybe his previous training could put his actions into context and give him some legal shelter -but it might have been beyond the policies (if any) of Wyoming H.S.
In either event, due to the likely fact of his previous training, it is certainly premature to assume he assaulted a student. While that might end up being true, it shouldn't be assumed. Like I said earlier, some of these types of physical actions look bad to untrained eyes.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:53 PM ^
Doctors, school districts, and car drivers are all scared of people filing lawsuits at any opportunity. If the school district didn't have to fear any legal repurcussions, Riley would probably be suspended for a couple weeks (maybe do some B.S. sensitivity training) and be back on the job. I'm sure the family still has lawyers calling them about a lawsuit.
And I speak from experience with one Joumana Kayrouz.
January 29th, 2016 at 3:54 PM ^
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January 29th, 2016 at 4:39 PM ^
January 30th, 2016 at 12:07 AM ^
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January 29th, 2016 at 5:43 PM ^
The Statement from Wyoming Public Schools:
"On January 26 around 2:00 pm, Mr. Rueben Riley, a dean of students and assistant football coach at Wyoming High School, was forced to remove a student from class for being disruptive. The student refused to leave, necessitating Mr. Riley to physically guide him out. During that encounter, Mr. Riley became too physical with the student, who, at one point during the exchange was forced to the ground.
The district fully understands that there may be times that require a staff member to intervene physically in a situation--to break up a fight or to protect themselves personally. In this case the district determined that there was no immediate need for the amount of force used."
January 29th, 2016 at 5:52 PM ^
I think this is probably a situation in which everyone was set up to fail. Many teachers don't get the best classroom management training or how to de-escalate adolescents in undergrad IMO. Riley should not have been called do deal with the situation unless he had a close, personal relationship with the student. Students with behavior issues aren't all 'rotten" kids. I work in an inner city school district and in many cases, the issues are completely unrelated to academics or the school authority figures but the students don't know how to emotionally process things and are easily triggered, which is neither their fault nor the trigger-er's.
I think people should avoid sweeping statements, such as "kids these days" or "boo authority figures". Neither of which are helpful or are willing to take in the entire context of the situation.
January 29th, 2016 at 6:44 PM ^
This is such a hard situation. There are three truths:
- One reality is that there are so, so many adults who have been far too abusive of children and youth in their care.
- The other reality is that there are so, so many youth who have been confrontive, combative, disrespectful, flat out awful, to the adults caring for them.
- In the current political environment, an adult can virtually never, under almost any circumstance, every touch anyone, without potentially being open to the charge of assault, or of battery.
Youth are extremely aware that they can charge adults with assault. I used to more with adults. But I am extremely thankful for video at this point in time. A video record isn't perfect, but it really helps in corroborating the adult's (or the child's) "story."
Living in the Chicago area, with the Laquan McDonald video of a police officer shooting him 16 times,. we have a heightened awareness of the value of video evidence. In the past, courts and the court of public opinion virtually always took the side of police officers. Here is a link to a case a couple years ago when a drunken, angry, Chicago police officer assaulted a female bartender. It was amazing to see how the video differs vastly from what he and his fellow police officers said happened.
If the school staff viewed the video, and then decided to terminate Riley, I have to believe their actions are warranted. That isn't to say that the student wasn't way out of line, but in a school setting, you can never, ever, ever be violent with a child.
January 29th, 2016 at 6:47 PM ^
This is such a hard situation. There are three truths:
- One reality is that there are so, so many adults who have been far too abusive of children and youth in their care.
- The other reality is that there are so, so many youth who have been confrontive, combative, disrespectful, flat out awful, to the adults caring for them.
- In the current political environment, an adult can virtually never, under almost any circumstance, every touch anyone, without potentially being open to the charge of assault, or of battery.
Youth are extremely aware that they can charge adults with assault. I used to side more with adults. But I am extremely thankful for video at this point in time. A video record isn't perfect, but it really helps in corroborating the adult's (or the child's) "story."
Living in the Chicago area, with the Laquan McDonald video of a police officer shooting him 16 times,. we have a heightened awareness of the value of video evidence. In the past, courts and the court of public opinion virtually always took the side of police officers. Here is a link to a case a couple years ago when a drunken, angry, Chicago police officer assaulted a female bartender. It was amazing to see how the video differs vastly from what he and his fellow police officers said happened.
If the school staff viewed the video, and then decided to terminate Riley, I have to believe their actions are warranted. That isn't to say that the student wasn't way out of line, but in a school setting, you can never, ever, ever be violent with a child.