Mailbag: Crootin Like Les(?), Too Many WRs, Onwenu Location, Best Recent Hockey Dudes
you, go away
Brian.
Given the general distaste we Michigan fans have had with the way in which SEC coaches like Les Miles and others oversign and then cut in order to make scholarship numbers work, how can we not be similarly enraged when it looks like we are now engaging in a similar practice? Is the answer HARBAUGH?
XOXO
Michigan is not yet at the point where they have to tell a freshman who's been on campus for weeks to GTFO. Should they reach that point, or one anywhere near it, then I'll be grousing as well.
They aren't near it. To date they have lost some commits before Signing Day. If those are Michigan's choice that is a recruiting misdemeanor compared to the felony of getting a guy's LOI and putting yourself in a position where someone's gotta go, deserved or not. And in some cases they are not Michigan's choice—reports after Vic Viramontes decommitted were that Michigan was blindsided and disappointed. (The MGoSlack chat was certainly mournful.)
I do think Michigan put themselves in a bad spot by offering a few guys before it was clear whether they had the academics and/or talent to play at Michigan. In the former case, those guys should know the score without anyone having to walk their way through it—if you're not taking officials you have to know you're a long way away.
In the latter case, once that disappointing senior film comes in you can either try to make it work even if you don't believe the player is Michigan-caliber anymore or you can consciously uncouple. I can see how moving on before Signing Day instead of two years into a career nowhere near the field could be better for everyone. Michigan told Matt Falcon they didn't think he could play but had a medical scholarship. That sucked for Falcon but better to find out before you've spent eligibility. The error has been made either way.
Meanwhile, Michigan has limited control of the narrative that gets put out there because they cannot say anything about ongoing recruitments. Reports that Michigan isn't contacting certain players much are probably frustrating to the staff because the reason for that is that they've already told people the deal, as they did with Falcon, but "Michigan commit" looks good on a resume when you're looking for another spot to land. Recruiting sites waited months for Dele Harding to say something about his recruitment and finally just took him off commit lists. That doesn't mean Harding didn't know his status. If you read between the lines you know who isn't likely to be in the class. If you know, they know.
Meanwhile I know that they have told certain players not to commit whereupon those players commit anyway; Michigan shrugs its shoulders at crootin' and keeps going. Carr used to go out of his way to make things clear when such things happened to him (LB [something] Justice and some OL out of Tennessee who I can't remember spring to mind); Harbaugh seems to (accurately) regard the whole edifice as a farce and plays his part with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind.
We'll see what happens on and after Signing Day. I don't think we'll see any more untoward than playing time transfers and guys not being offered fifth years.
[After the JUMP: where to put guys, where to spend scholarships, and the best hockey forwards of the past 15 years.]
Recruiting position sense
Brian -
Given the chaos outlined in your Recruiting post today it is probably foolish to speculate about anything related to the class size or makeup before signing day. But I'm still going to ask the question anyway:
What is your opinion on the fact that Michigan is recruiting so many receivers in this class when the depth issue at other positions (LB, WDE) is more dire?
Right now there are 5 receivers in the class and two more possible/probably candidates to join them. The easy answer is that some will switch to DB, but they have 3 DBs already in the class and Long/Hill are probably additions. This is magnified by the fact that Harbaugh typically uses just 2 receivers at a time and at most 3. I know that our top two WR leave after next year and no one else has distinguished themselves, but it seems like an imbalance in this class when every spot in the 28 is valuable.
Adam
AC1997
Chicago, IL
Usually when Michigan's coaches are recruiting in a way that doesn't' seem to make numerical sense it's because they're taking unannounced attrition into account. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here.
Also, Michigan's numbers at linebacker are actually reasonable. They're currently slated to have 10 on the roster next year and are looking to add one or two more. (The problem is that past Gedeon we have no idea if any of them can actually play.) They're currently at 12 wide receiver/slot types and may add two more. That's a little bit of overkill (LB and WR are both spots where Michigan needs 2.5 starters) but since a number of the wide receivers have been recruited as athletes who might flip to defensive back it's not drastic.
It's actually DB that needs numbers. Michigan loses five defensive backs after 2016 (Lewis, Clark, Stribling, Thomas, and Hill) and Jabrill Peppers has a first round draft spot waiting for him whenever he wants it. If Peppers goes Michigan has just nine players, a number of them marginal, for 4.5 starting spots. If Michigan wants to avoid playing true freshmen next year they need to add a bunch of dudes now. Hill and Long should be just the tip of the iceberg, and the numbers at wide receiver are the bit lurking under the water.
Glasgows? Why? And who does number two work for?
Two questions:
1. What is the back story to all of the Glasgows being walk-ons? Not recruited out of HS by UM? I saw that their mom is a surgeon – didn’t need UM scholarships to come here? Just curious
2. AD Hackett has said that their was a clear choice #2 for HC if hiring Harbaugh didn’t work out and John Bacon indicated that he knew who the #2 choice was as well – any idea who it was? Pro coach?
-Nathan
1. Glasgows did not play football until very late in high school because their parents weren't keen on the idea. This SI article has the full story. They didn't have big offers.
2. I have not heard that specifically, and I'm surprised Bacon would have as well. The coaching search was so laser-focused on Harbaugh that other candidates were mostly fever-dreams (CUTCLIFFE TURNS DOWN MICHIGAN) or speculative backup plans. I think Hackett knew he was getting Harbaugh relatively early in the process and just had to not screw it up, making #2 a distant consideration.
I hope it was Tom Herman though.
Recruiting coordinator gigs and their attractiveness
Hi MGoStaff,
With all of the talk recently about Bush potentially having the opportunity to move from high profile college head coach to a recruiting coordinator position on Michigan’s staff, could you elaborate as to why an individual would want to do so from a “no brainer” perspective?
More specifically, the things that come to mind are:
1. Would a HS HC candidate really want to give up your involvement in the X’s and O’s (or on field coaching), a potential area of interest with current head coaches?
2. Would a HS HC candidate want the change in lifestyle that recruiting requires?
3. Is the jump in salary meaningful from high profile HS HC to D1 Recruiting Coordinator? Illinois coaching staff member, Ryan Cubit, is making a hair over $80k per USA Today (LINK). Do D1 recruiting coordinators actually earn salaries comparable to full time (e.g. “officially staffed”) coaches? This article citing Houston area head coach salaries (LINK) are pressing, or surpassing, six-figures annually. I’m sure Florida, and others like Ohio and California, are in the same ballpark as Texas.
With many of these high school coaches now getting TV time for themselves or their teams on ESPN, apparel deals for their team with major suppliers (Nike, et al.), and more...is the runway that much more promising career-wise leaving that behind for a recruiting coordinator role in D1 now versus an on-field coaching role later (or even staying as HC at a prominent HS)?
Best,
MGoKev
Illinois coaching staff member Ryan Cubit is maybe not the best example. Cubit is Bill Cubit's son and probably comes cheap as a result. Meanwhile USA Today's assistant coach salary database shows that 457 D-I assistants are making 200k+ and 760 are making 100k+. Recruiting coordinator is not a full assistant job but Partridge made as much as Ryan Cubit did in his first year at Michigan and is obviously in line for a significant bump now.
So, yes, being a college staffer, even a non-coaching one, is much closer to the on-ramp to serious money than being a high school coach. The salary pools are going up as fast or faster in college than they are at high schools, and big high school programs are often built with… yep, recruiting. Both Partridge and Devin Bush Sr built their programs by convincing players to transfer high schools.
Maybe there are some high schools that could keep coaches away from some college programs. Michigan is not one of those college programs.
Onwenu as a nose tackle?
what are the chances michael onwenu plays at NT rather than OG? michigan never seems to have enough NTs on the roster, we don't have any NT commits this year, and we have commits from three other OLs, about as many as we should take in an average year. onwenu seems like he's the perfect size for an NT; he's the anti-pat massey.
thanks,
evan
My initial instinct was similar. I saw "360" next to Onwenu's height and mentally filed him as a NT. While I still think that's a possibility if needs demand it, as Onwenu's high school career has drawn to a close it's clear guard is the first option.
As a guard Onwenu brings a unique combination of agility and power. As a nose tackle Onwenu is going to be a load to move, but does he have the explosive ability to be a one-gap player? I don't know but I'm guessing not. You can definitely work around that—the Patriots have used a hybrid one/two gap system for years based around Vince Wilfork. But, I mean, Harbaugh. You show him a guy who can pull at 360 and he's going to want him on offense.
Hockey lines of the last 15 years
Hey Brian,
Curious on your all time first three lines for Michigan hockey. At least since the last national champion.
Thanks,
Ron
Michigan
Wow. This is a brutally difficult question. Here's an attempt:
Kevin Porter – TJ Hensick – Mike Comrie
Porter and Hensick combined on one of the top lines in recent Michigan history, and Porter went on to win the Hobey after Hensick graduated. Hensick was a puck wizard who was brilliant on a 2-on-1 and was a one-man-zone entry. Meanwhile Comrie is simply the most talented player with the puck on his stick I have ever seen in Yost Ice Arena. Due to loopholes in the NHL CBA Comrie left for a half season in the OHL (which he burned to the ground with like 3 PPG) before leaping direct to the NHL.
Zach Hyman – Carl Hagelin – Mike Cammalleri
With a better supporting cast and the mysterious disappearance of Jack Eichel Hyman likely wins the Hobey. Drove tons and tons of play off the wall, and eventually turned that into points. Just a nightmare for defenders.
Hagelin is the best two-way player Michigan has had in my time as an M hockey fan, lightning fast and always defensively responsible. Late-career offensive surge based on his relentless ability to improve himself.
Cammalleri was/is Comrie. Better pro but a hair behind Comrie in college.
Jeff Tambellini – Max Pacioretty - Andrew Cogliano
Tambellini was a mobile howitzer. Best shot I've seen. The second half of his freshman year Pacioretty dominated; I was really hoping to see a sophomore season from him. Alas. Cogliano is another in the line of Comrie/Cammalleri, fast as hell and small. He wasn't quite in their league as an offensive force but was much better in his own zone.
BONUS GRIND LINE of personal favorites who certainly aren't better than Dylan Larkin:
Brandon Kaleniecki – Andrew Copp – Scooter Vaughn
(defensemen, quickly: Komisarek, Trouba, Jack Johnson, Werenski, Mark Mitera, Eric Werner.)
January 15th, 2016 at 1:05 PM ^
Brendan Morrison has to be on theat hockey list!!!
January 15th, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
His last year was 1997, the year in between the two NCs. Won the Hobey on what was probably the best of those three teams, even though it didn't win the tourney.
January 15th, 2016 at 1:09 PM ^
Harbaugh has seen the team perform for a full season of practices. He's got a very strong mind to determine what he's got, what he needs, and he's going after it full bore to try to continue the turn-around they started this last year.
For strongly ethical has he's conducted himself through his career, I fully believe he's going to continue to do things the right way.
HAIL!
January 15th, 2016 at 1:14 PM ^
For strongly ethical has he's conducted himself through his career, I fully believe he's going to continue to do things the right way.
Except there are stories about him pulling the "ghosting" thing with recruits when at Stanford also.
January 15th, 2016 at 4:57 PM ^
We heard the same thing about Scott on this board more than once in the past month or so. Years from now people will repeat it, overlooking that it was academics that got in the way. I'm sure some are doing it now.
I will bet that a lot of his commits had trouble getting admitted into Stanford. Donald Stewart just got admitted there this week. If you look at his recruiting profile you'll see he's a serious student. If you take commtiments before knowing for certain they'll pass admissions, you'll lose recruits, especially at Stanford. If you always wait, you'll lose recruits in a different way.
January 15th, 2016 at 1:09 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:10 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:10 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:12 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^
I got a good laugh though. Gotta be a record of some sort, right?
January 15th, 2016 at 1:57 PM ^
You obviously never tried to sell Michigan jerseys in Ohio or turn tides
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/night-jerseys-selling-hotcakes-ohio
January 15th, 2016 at 1:10 PM ^
The backup plan was totally Dan Mullen. I have no idea if this is actually true, but I'm just going to say it with supreme confidence and figure I'm right.
January 15th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^
Holy crap, there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Great talent, but he had all sorts of academic issues (was suspended for 23 games his sophomore year because he had a 1.8 GPA).
Cool Story Bro moment: He and Roy Manning (along with a couple other football players whose names I don't remember probably because they were buried on the depth chart) were in my Horror Film class during the Fall 2003 semester. One time I was in a group discussion with Werner during that class, but he contributed nothing to the conversation. Manning looked like he was going to have a heart attack after our class screening of Carrie.
January 15th, 2016 at 1:12 PM ^
that's just what I do.
And it's amazing to think that over the last 8 seasons, we've gone from wishing that Cissoko would just turn around and Woolfolk would get healthy, while wondering what we did to make the Football Gawds hate us so...
to
Getting hyped about Richardson and Countess as bright young starters...
to
Wishing Richardson and Countess the best...b/c they can't get playing time behind our All-American shutdown and frosh All-American.
What a great time to be Alivebaugh!
January 15th, 2016 at 1:14 PM ^
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January 15th, 2016 at 1:16 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:26 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:28 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:28 PM ^
No offense to MGoKev, but the discussion of high school head coaching salaries is laughable. Granted, there are places in the country that have full-time head coaching jobs for high school teams, but that's not the case in most places. The vast majority of high school head coaches double as some sort of teacher (usually a gym or health teacher, from what I've seen). That's because coaching jobs earn you roughly a couple bucks an hour, and that's if you're lucky. A lot of high school coaches I know would probably jump at the chance to earn $80,000+ per year for a college recruiting job.
January 15th, 2016 at 3:09 PM ^
No offense taken. That said, my logic (right or wrong) was that the only coaches getting real looks to work in the collegiate ranks are the higher profile High School coaches that already have the higher salaries (relative to their HS peers). That's why I was focused mainly on the often televised FL/TX/CA schools that have Nike contracts and more.
I would doubt that a regular mid tier, local high school head coach that doubles as the gym teacher is getting serious looks from the Michigans of the world. Perhaps I'm wrong, though, that's why I asked...
January 15th, 2016 at 8:48 PM ^
John Herrington has won 13 state championships. He's been coaching there since the school opened in 1970, is in the Michigan Coaching Hall of Fame for both football and baseball, and didn't lose a game either my senior year or my brother's senior year after me. He's sent a dozen players to Power 5 schools and several to the NFL, most recently Devin Funchess. This year when they discussed closing one of the high schools in the district because of major budget problems the first thing on everyone's minds was "oh god would that make Herrington retire?"
He makes $21,000 for coaching the football team (it's in the public budget.) He used to get way way less but half a century of loyalty at one of the state's premier programs that you literally built yourself comes with benefits. Like Coach Herrington doesn't pay for beer if any of the thousands of his alumni are at the bar. It's a good life.
If you get a chance to join D-I staff when you're going, you do so. Like Partridge, the chances of moving up to an assistant role are far greater when you're already in the room. Coordinators come from assistant ranks and head coaches come from the successful coordinators, and if you tie your flag to one of the great coaches the likelihood of those openings (as others move up and out) and having the kind of success to attract better jobs is greater.
Coaches I know in town--those in their 30s, and yes they're coaching DI talent--would leap at a chance to take Partridge's position on a MAC team. Typically you would want to get to know an up-and-comer and move up through the ranks was he does. But a guy like Harbaugh who's already at the peak of the profession skips that step. If you're recruiting coordinator at Michigan you're a step away from linebackers coach. If you're linebackers coach you're a step away from a coordinator job at a good mid-major or a middling Power 5. Squeeze out a top-X performance there and you're on your way to $1 million.
January 15th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 1:55 PM ^
"they have told certain players not to commit whereupon those players commit anyway"
Why in hell are they offering kids who they don't want to commit? Is there no due diligence at all before offers go out, or is this a case of some kids screwing up academically or behaviorally after they get the offers?
January 15th, 2016 at 2:01 PM ^
Coaches can't say anything. If some kid says I'm committing to Michigan, Harbaugh can't come out and say "whoa, whoa, whoa I told him he could commit after we heard back for A, B, C and D and we got his transcript cleared". Only thing they can do is back channel it thru insiders which is then relayed to us.
Think of the Dele Harding recruitment. I have no idea what happened but we have been hearing he won't be part of the class about 24 hours after his commitment. Why is that?
Trust the coaches until proven otherwise. These are kids that can say anything to the rec sites. Easy to shape facts one way or another.
January 15th, 2016 at 2:03 PM ^
"We don't accept your committment?"
January 15th, 2016 at 3:55 PM ^
1). They may be recruiting multiple players at a given position. Although they have intentions of playing both(or more, depending on position), they might fear that one of the croots will hesitate if he learns that another player has committed at the same position. In this case, it would be wise to have player A. realize he is wanted but better for all parties concerned if he would delay announcing his choice of school after player B. has given his verbal.
2) Another scenario I see, and it's been discussed here frequently, latest example is Sir Patrick. While staff has every intention of honoring their offer, and yes due diligence is always performed by Harbaugh's staff, the young man in question has demonstrated to the coaches he has the intelligence to pull his gpa up to an acceptable number, but for some reason - and their could be multiple reasons - has not at time of offer still has work to do. In Sir's situation he had already committed but it was an offer with a contigency and he failed to satisfy the contingency.
So I think you can safely assume when offers are made in the majority of the instances they want that young man. There are instances, as well, when a player they felt was highly unlikely to choose M, for some mysterious reason, picks up the phone and tells Jim, "Coach I would like to commit to Michigan." If it's early in the cycle, generally a reduction in contact serves as a indication interest has waned on the part of the staff and in these instances, player will generally re-open his recruitment. If it's done late in the cycle, then imo, if he is fully qualified, offer should be honored simply due to the young man not having sufficient time to make a choice based on his initial criteria and school choice nos. 2 and 3 may not be a viable option any longer.
January 15th, 2016 at 2:00 PM ^
Onwenu looked great as a guard, I'd hate to see him move somewhere else. He showed great ability to chip and get to the second level in the All Star game. He was also a wall in pass protection. I see our ground game running behind him in a couple years.
January 15th, 2016 at 2:13 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 2:22 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 2:27 PM ^
What the staff appears to be doing exactly what the situation calls for: bring in a bunch of WRs now and see how it shakes out. The ones who are furthest from the field can always RS and flip to DB.
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January 15th, 2016 at 2:34 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 3:02 PM ^
roberts - felsner and cam stewart(?) from the late 80s. they were the core of the team that turned the program around.
roberts was a great stick handler and passer. and felsner was powerful. he used to fight off guys with one arm and stuff the puck into the goal with just one hand on the stick.
stewart, though not that big, was a great forechecker. he wasn't afraid to hit anyone.
i think steve shields was the goalie on those teams too, iirc. one of the best we've ever had.
January 16th, 2016 at 9:33 AM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 3:08 PM ^
How does one join this MGoSlack?!?
January 15th, 2016 at 3:08 PM ^
How does one join this MGoSlack?!?
January 15th, 2016 at 8:22 PM ^
Steps:
1. Do something for the blog on a consistent basis that Brian finds of monetary value.
2. Fill out a W2.
3. Years later be watching TV with Ace and be like "what is that sound that keeps coming from your laptop?"
January 15th, 2016 at 3:45 PM ^
I really just read a Paltrow-ism in MgoBlog?
January 15th, 2016 at 4:18 PM ^
January 15th, 2016 at 4:44 PM ^
I guess you didn't know about Falcon, and how he was specifically told that his offer was contigent upon not playing as a senior, as his knee was iffy.. perfectly fine to do this.... we aren't in the charity business... and he went ahead and played, blew out his knee, and we still offered him the medical, and then he indirectly disses us on the way out.....
January 15th, 2016 at 4:52 PM ^
Re the DB thing... whoa.. we lose five after this season, and possibly Peppers...
I'd think that we get Long, Hill, and one more, too.
January 15th, 2016 at 9:14 PM ^
Harbaugh has always seemed to be ethical. He is very cut and dried though as with Falcon. You play by my way or the highway. This is different from what Saban does, if the stories are to be beleived, but it is also not the most sensitive to the needs and desires of the players. In his defense, however, Harbaugh did offer him a medical scholarship to the University of Michigan, which is pretty good offer for someone who has very little chance of playing professionally, not that Falcon accepts this yet.
January 15th, 2016 at 11:33 PM ^
jim will not be like in any way whatsoever like the SEC. he know how many he needs and he will only get that many. lots of flips etc. so close to feb watch the plan go in place.
January 16th, 2016 at 2:39 PM ^
This is a guy that used the famous Bo quote "If you cheat to win, then you've already lost" http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jim-harbaugh-seahawks-cheat-win-ve-already-lost-215021538.html
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