Interesting convo I had with a prominant Chicago HS basketball coach

Submitted by WindyCityBlue on

So, I had the opportunity to speak with a Chicago HS basketball luminary in a casual situation earlier today.  I won't drop his name at this point, but he coached some of Chicago's best talent over the past 30 years at a couple well known Chicago high schools.  He apparently just retired this year.  I asked some very pointed questions about basketball topics, specifically regarding college recruiting, and he (thankfully) did not hold back on giving me some very candid and real answers.  Thought I would share with the board:

1. College bball recruiting is extremely dirty (duh!)

2. While he thinks the NCAA does their best to monitor this, he seems to believe that college coaches are much smarter and can "stay ahead" of the NCAA.  He says there are very sophisticated ways to pay players and their families without suspicion.

3. Coach K - dirty as hell (I was kinda surprised by this)

4. Coach Cal - dirty as hell (duh!)

5. Coach Pitino - dirty as hell (duh!)

5. Izzo - sends his assitants to do his dirty work.  He says he was offered money from Dwayne Stephens on several recent occasions for particular recruits (although I don't know if he actually accepted the money).  He thinks that Izzo is not as bad as others though.  Izzo has a lot of respect in Chicago and is not normally known for playing dirty.  However, his people told him that Izzo's recent recruting success is no doubt from some "below the belt" tactics.

6. The Jabari Parker recruitment was surprising clean on a relative scale.

7. As for Michigan/JB - clean, very clean, but too clean.  Most promimant Chicago HS coaches stay away from Michigan because Michigan won't be part of the "recruiting machine" in Chicago.  They think JB is a good coach but teaches "white boy" basketball.  He basically says Michigan/JB has no respect in Chicago anymore.

I mentioned I was a Michigan fan and talked some more about our program.  He has tons of respect for us becasue he had lots of interaction with Michigan many years ago.  Back in the 90s, Michigan was THE school for Chicago's best talent.  He says we were not a clean program then, but he says that no one was and Michigan was no different than any other major program.  He seems to think we have little to no chance with big time recruits in any major city without getting a little dirty. 

He had some funny things to say about Amaker, but I'll save for later.

Anyway, thought I would share with the board.  What are your thoughts?  Would you be OK with getting a little dirty to get better recruits?  Are you OK with being a super clean program now that can't consistent compete on the big stage?

 

 

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Tater

December 27th, 2015 at 9:38 PM ^

I am also happy to hear that Michigan is clean.  In addition, I am happy to hear that my suspicions about Coach K being dirty and Izzo turning dirty during this recruiting cycle are both true.  I have mentioned all of these things here in the last year or so, especially when someone whines that Beilein "can't recruit elite players."

Joined: 08/13/2008

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1974

December 27th, 2015 at 9:59 PM ^

I'm OK with that, too.

+++

I was a little surprised that there was no mention of Bill Self and Kansas. People can "TRADITION!!!" all they want, but he has pulled a surprising number of guys from Chicago and environs. Hard to believe it's all clean ...

Oh, and if Coach K ever gets dragged through the mud, I'll buy a round for the entire MGoBlog readership. That would be a very happy day.

Joined: 04/17/2011

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BornSinner

December 28th, 2015 at 12:29 AM ^

If Michigan has no respect in Chicago, then I wonder what this coach thinks of Groce at Illinois. 

Talk about a program that can't seem to do anything right atm when it comes to recruiting your backyard. Sheesh. 

Joined: 09/20/2014

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Yeoman

January 22nd, 2016 at 1:28 AM ^

...that's code for "the program's too clean and we need to get someone in here that does it the right way." I don't think I've ever met an Illinois fan that wasn't fully aware of how the game is played there--there's a factional fight, has been for decades, over whether to play it.

I was there (briefly) in the Henson days and the dirty faction was firmly in control. The pendulum seems to have swung the other way after Self left.

Joined: 06/08/2011

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Blau

December 27th, 2015 at 10:26 PM ^

Let's define "dirty" a little bit. Are we talking about actually paying players/player's family $$$ or accepting cars, houses, strippers, academic infractions, etc...? Could this coach pinpoint actual events that would constitute violations or he just didn't respect those programs?

I don't mind calling other programs/coaches dirty but let's bring some background to the discussion. 

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Avon Barksdale

December 27th, 2015 at 9:24 PM ^

I'd prefer to keep a clean program that CAN compete on a national level like we did in 2012-13 and 2013-14. I'm okay with "white boy basketball" without elite Chicago recruits if we can continually compete for the B1G Championship every season.

Joined: 04/27/2013

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Mabel Pines

December 28th, 2015 at 4:08 AM ^

For asking me to to read your post below. I read every single one of your posts and I am now questioning the truthfulness of your thread. So you chatted with a guy who coached a Chicago HS team for 30 years and he just volunteered all this information and threw around all kinds of accusations? Interesting. I'm thinking you have an ulterior motive here. ..

Joined: 10/02/2010

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jmblue

December 28th, 2015 at 1:00 AM ^

When you consider where we were when Beilein arrived, it shouldn't be that surprising that we didn't raise any banners from 2008-11.  We hadn't won the league in over 20 years and hadn't even made the tournament in a decade.  I really don't think those years can be held against him.  Actually, I thought 2010-11 was perhaps his best coaching job at Michigan, turning an 11-9 team into an NCAA tournament squad that destroyed Tennessee and nearly knocked off a #1 seed.

Keep in mind: for 3.5 seasons (from the 2011 MSU road game through the end of the 2014 season) we had the best record in the league. 

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WindyCityBlue

December 28th, 2015 at 1:45 AM ^

...I'm simply taking his entire record and looking at it objectively.  There are lots of reasons, excuses, etc. for why things happen.  But regardless of those factors, we don't continually compete for big ten championships by any objective measure. 

I think its great that we had the best record in the league for 3.5 years, but why are you picking a half year to prove your point?  It seems arbitrary to do so (why not use the whole year, or 1/3 of the year, etc?).  That's selection bias.  Its Ok to that, not knocking you. 

Joined: 07/23/2008

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WindyCityBlue

December 28th, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^

...I'll take our record over the past 1.3 years and use that as a proxy for the state of our program, and by doing so I could say we are a shit program*.  This is selection bias.  Your reaction would be "why are you selecting those years?! Those years don't take into account the successful years before that!. The past 1.3 years don't give a full picture of who we are"

My point is instead of arbitrarily picking a 3.5 year period (as the past poster did), I rather use a larger more representive sample to make an objective measure of our program.  And, as several of my other posts state, I'm glad we are a clean program, even with its performance consequences - I don't want UM/JB to be dirty.

*I don't really think this, just using an example 

Joined: 07/23/2008

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umchicago

December 28th, 2015 at 3:42 PM ^

year 1 under beilein was bad.  understandable.  he just took over the program.  he has since made the ncaa tourny 5 of the past 7 years; including a runner-up and elite 8 appearance and 2 BIG titles.  we missed the tourny last year due to injuries to our 2 best players.  there is no selection bias.

this team will make the tourny this year barring any significant injuries.  and this team and the teams going forward will finally be experienced (ie. majority of minutes coming from upper classmen).  this team is set to compete well for years to come right now.  and if we can get another guy (other than caris) to blow up, the team will contend for BIG titles and deep ncaa runs.

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James Burrill Angell

December 27th, 2015 at 9:48 PM ^

Look, Beilien isn't getting the high end recruits and, as this guy confirmed, it's because he won't lower himself to the dirty standard. Accordingly he has to recruit like he's at a Mid-major and hope we hit on a couple of hidden gems. While everyone keeps saying "I like that he's clean", I wonder what tune everyone is singing in two or three years if this group of three and the occasional four stars don't seriously overachieve and we find ourselves as a team that bounces between the NIT and maybe a second round NCAA team. Should be particularly difficult as we sit and watch Izzo and State continue to succeed now that that they've decided to "play the game". I guess we'll see.

Joined: 08/12/2009

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ThadMattasagoblin

December 27th, 2015 at 9:56 PM ^

Beilen was on the rules committee so we're probably never going to be dirty. However, can't we at least have a class ranked like 6th or 7th? I mean he's put a million guys in the nba. Shouldn't we be recruiting better than a bottom tier big ten program even if he's not a snake oil salesman?

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gwkrlghl

December 28th, 2015 at 11:48 AM ^

I'm just pointing out that all these platitudes that are being spoken above don't change the fact that the cheaters are winning. This isn't a cool 80's movie where the bad guy is foiled. All these cheaters are getting their national titles and their millions and they'll never be caught. I doubt Pitino lays in bed thinking about how he's winning 'the wrong way'. The skeezeballs are winning

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