A few bubbles from the submarine

Submitted by mGrowOld on

Nothing terribly earth shattering but tonight I worked out with the high school head coach of one of our current players and he shared a few nuggets from a conversation they had over the weekend so I thought I'd share:

1. With Hoke they had a catered chef who basically cooked to order whatever the players wanted and they had as much as they liked.  He said it was like eating at a 5 star restaurant every day and it was fantastic.  With Harbaugh there are basically no meal choices and if you don't like it - that's too bad

2. The past two years the players stayed in nice, new, air-conditioned rooms where they had a lot of space and personal freedom.  With Harbaugh they are crammed into an old, dirty, non-air-conditioned room that's hot as hell.  Note: where are they exactly?  Sounds like my old dorm room.

3. Under Hoke this player had no clue why he'd play, get pulled, start or be benched.  He said there was little communication and he was very confused on what got him playing time or what got him pulled from the game.  With Harbaugh he knows exactly where he stands on the depth chart every single day (he said it's updated every day) and he knows exactly what the coaches want to see in him to improve his standing.

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bamf16

August 18th, 2015 at 11:07 PM ^

1. Weren't there nutritionists who helped monitor what the players ate, even if it was just helping with calorie intake?

 

2. I live in Pittsburgh, and when the Steelers dorms at St. Vincent College (training camp) got air conditioning, there was a story on the news about it and people feared the team would get "soft."

 

3. Maybe this kid just didn't figure out the rotation, you know, when defensive linemen would be running on and off the field and trying to get the call and get set in the 8 seconds between plays Indiana gave them.  In all seriousness, assuming this is true I'm glad to hear the players couldn't figure out the playing time algorithm because I couldn't decipher it from my couch at home.

Joined: 01/05/2014

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RuebenRileyonRye

August 18th, 2015 at 11:30 PM ^

I saw him early in his HS career here in GR. He was on such a higher level, even as a sophomore and even a bigger playmaker his junior year.

I've been routing for him for a while and I'm a believer. When he committed it wasn't that big of a jump in a lot of people's minds for him to get the #1 quickly upon arrival...at least those of us who remember the pre-Braylon era when Carr, Mo, and Bo gave out that number whenever and to whomever receiver they wanted to give it to. (I like the idea Braylon had and the endowment he gave for that number but if Harbaugh is Harbaugh, he'll give the number to any receiver he wants.). Sorry if this is a potential topic hijack and I'll take the negs...

Anyway, I'm just happy to hear he's doing well. The talent and ability is there. Go Blue!!!

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PurpleStuff

August 18th, 2015 at 11:20 PM ^

I remember the good old days when Rich Rod was making guys puke and running off the pussies and The Hokester finally had them hitting a blocking sled and eating red meat for the first time in their lives.

Talent always trumps the talking points.

Joined: 04/21/2009

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mGrowOld

August 18th, 2015 at 11:27 PM ^

Look, I have no standard of reference to know if what he's saying is accurate or complete 100% Columbian bullshit but it certainly seemed to fit the persona of both men.  Hoke was almost singularly fixated (IMO) on being liked so pampering players would accomplish that goal.  Harbaugh, on the other hand, seems to be trying to create a cultural change within the program and these changes would be consistent with that it would seem.

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PurpleStuff

August 18th, 2015 at 11:32 PM ^

Well aware that you have things in perspective, old top.  I'm just getting a kick out of all the "Hoke was soft" talk four years after he supposedly brought the masculine toughness we so desperately needed to win the Sugar Bowl into the program.

The same guy David Molk and Mike Martin (no softies) admired probably wasn't the total candyass he's being portrayed as now that his program went into the toilet.  He just never found the next Molk or Martin in any of his supposedly awesome recruiting classes.

Joined: 04/21/2009

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Richard75

August 19th, 2015 at 7:54 AM ^

Bingo.

The recruiting was never as good as it was made out to be. OL is the hardest position to project, and that's where much of the supposed recruiting success was. QB is the most important position on the field, and we signed 1 QB over the first 2 years (a marginal one at that). And it was never like we were landing freakish DEs or WRs.



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Magnum P.I.

August 19th, 2015 at 9:33 AM ^

Hoke's full classes were among the best in the nation every year, based on every recruiting site's metric. So the two possible explanations for why those guys underperformed are (1) that the metric was systematically flawed just for Michigan every single year on every single recruiting site; or (2) that Hoke was doing diddlysquat with the impressive talent he recruited.

I think (2) is much more likely.

Joined: 07/16/2009

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Woodstock Wolverine

August 18th, 2015 at 11:23 PM ^

Is this really real? If so I'm really starting to think Hoke is a lazy ass puss and his lazy pussness rubbed off on to the team and made them lazy pussies. That's how they played the past few years and that's how Hoke acted . No accountability and apologizing to rival coaches for putting tiny stakes in their field.

The other thread about Hoke pissed me off and my vacation is almost over. Rant over.



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leftrare

August 18th, 2015 at 11:39 PM ^

Some poobah in the US Golf Association once said of the U.S. open course setup, "we don't intend to punish the best golfers in the world. We intend to identify them." Harbaugh stacking the team up in an old, non-AC dorm will go a long way toward identifying those who stay... ... And those who know they're never going to play or aren't sure they want to be on a football team anymore are gonna say screw this bullshit... and won't stay. Gotta believe this culture explains the departure of Samuelson and Miller -- and no offense or discredit is made to either of those guys -- they made good choices for themselves.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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EGD

August 18th, 2015 at 11:37 PM ^

Seeing point #3 immediately reminded me of that anonymous comment from the Athlon interviews about Michigan's players having a lot of talent but no confidence. What better way to ruin somebody's confidence than to suddenly bench them or demote them on the depth chart without making clear the reasons. I'm sure at least some of Hoke's coaches made an effort to communicate that information but if the message isn't getting through, that's a serious problem.

Joined: 09/16/2009

MGoPoints: 35199

DoubleYost

August 18th, 2015 at 11:49 PM ^

Coming from a Ball State guy who worshipped the ground Hoke walked on and was over the moon when UM hired him, I can genuinely say Hoke was not cut out for the modern B1G. He is a great guy though. Personable with recruits, gentle father figure.. Hell him and Whitlock even payed for 500 students to travel, ticket, and eat at the defacto MAC title game away to Northern Illinois in 2014.

But, iron sharpens iron and I want the Wolverines to win. Michigan became a cake walk and that's why you had guys like Woodson and Woodley backing Harbaugh because they know he will mold great players.

I've got nothing bad to say about Hoke and wish him the best, but Jim Harbaugh is the man for the times at Michigan.



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BlueMan80

August 18th, 2015 at 11:59 PM ^

Then people need to know where they stand. Clearly, Hoke was using the word, but not making it clear to the team how the competiton was going. That leads to suspicions of favoritism. With Harbaugh, it's pretty darn clear if Samuelson decided to pack it in and move on. I always prefer working for someone that tells me where I stand. No surprises. This is all good. As for eating what is on the table, I recall that's what my mom said and I turned out just fine...except for this weird obsession with a Michigan blog.

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UMForLife

August 19th, 2015 at 12:05 AM ^

Thank you for sharing. Private Chef does not sound right. Were they running a made-by-order buffet? Wow. How many of those kids would have been able to do that at home? My parents would have kicked my butt. I understand if it is once a week, but 4 days. The worst one is #3. How do you not know why you were pulled? Don't they discuss at the film session on Sunday. I remember Hoke was always proud of his weekend film sessions. What the hell were they explaining? Wow. I am dumbfounded.

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ThadMattasagoblin

August 19th, 2015 at 12:09 AM ^

 I feel like a lot of this stuff is exagerrated and it really comes down to coaching and technique. We heard the same thing about how the players weren't motivated under RR and were ready to work under Hoke.

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newtopos

August 19th, 2015 at 1:39 AM ^

If Hoke's decisions on playing time were like his decision on special teams, it's not that he didn't communicate his reasoning, it's that he didn't have any.  I'll never forget his "defense" of the archaic punt formation that most teams had abandoned: it was the way he had done it before and was comfortable with.  Maddening.

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HollywoodHokeHogan

August 19th, 2015 at 2:22 AM ^

            I appreciate the new info; it's nice to have something to chew on in the last few weeks before the season.  However, I think every coaching change in the country, or at least in recent Michigan history, is followed by an avalanche of "NOW THINGS ARE GOING TO BE TOUGH, NO COUNTRY CLUB MOTHERFUCKERS!" hype. I think that's largely bullshit of the same order as the  "New S&C Coach So-and-so is finally getting these guys jacked so they won't be pushed around!" posts that pop up repeatedly.  I'm confident this team will be better than last years. I'm not at all confident that the lack of AC will be a even partially responsible.

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JWolve

August 19th, 2015 at 2:40 AM ^

Have you ever gone to a pizza place where they tell you the pizza is "famous"? If they have to tell you, then it's not famous. Same thing for toughness. If you have to talk about it every day, then you're not tough. Hoke talked about toughness...but Harbaigh doesn't have to tell anyone that he's the instilling toughness. He's just doing it.

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Mr. W

August 19th, 2015 at 2:30 AM ^

Regarding points #1 and #2, is he saying about camp or during the season? During camp, the only "catered chef" I remember would be for things like omelettes at breakfast or certain dishes at dinner. All meals were huge buffets since you'd have to feed ~110 players plus staff. Same went for training tables during the season. You never had extreme freedom in placing an order or getting exactly what you wanted.

As for point #2, to me it just sounds like the team is staying in the dorms instead of the hotel. Even in the hotel though players did share rooms so I wouldn't say there was a ton of personal freedom or space, but it did have air and was bigger than a dorm room for sure.

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Reader71

August 19th, 2015 at 4:46 AM ^

Harbaugh is running a country club compared to Bo, who made his teams sleep on beds of nails set on fire and fed them only salt cod and hardtack. Bo's tams stayed hydrated by being waterboarded. Bo would set a depth chart every day and summarily execute the last man at each position by hanging, drawing, and quartering. In all seriousness, we used to stay at the hotel and have a pretty nice training table in camp. My brother played at another school whose teams stayed in non-AC dorms and ate amongst the general student body in cafeterias, often getting the scraps because the team rolled in from practice as the cafeteria was closing. They had three practices a day to our two. They lived a tough, gritty, Spartan life. We lived a charmed country club existence. We would have beaten them by 100 points, minimum.

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RationalBuckeye

August 19th, 2015 at 7:29 AM ^

The way I understand it, the kids stay in a hotel so the accommodations are pretty good. The practice facility has excellent food options but the team is frequently split into "winners" and "losers" based on their performance, and their menu items differ based on that. (I.e. Hot dogs vs. steaks)

As far as the depth chart, players are highly aware of their place on the roster at most times. It allows for high competition levels and for players to make a decision about transferring if they don't like their depth chart position.

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