Dare I ponder the impossible...winning out?

Submitted by readyourguard on

To celebrate Coach Hoke's birthday, I'd like to ponder the most homerish, positive outlook for the remainder of the season.

What if we won out, including a bowl game?  I realize it's pie in the sky and I'm punch drunk from watching a Michigan running back actually, you know....RUN.  But what if we found the missing piece with Drake, other players got healthy, and we built on Saturday's game to take a 3 game win streak into the Shoe?

What if the unthinkable happened and we beat Oiho St, won our bowl game, and finished 8-5?

Does Hoke & staff come back in 2015?

EDIT: Because there seems to be some confusion, the question is IF we win out.  Consider it a hypothetical, if you will.

McSomething

November 3rd, 2014 at 5:33 PM ^

2011: Northwestern 42-24 Illinois 31-14 Lost to MSU and Iowa. 2012: Purdue 44-17 Minnesota 35-13 Lost to Notre Dame, Nebraska, Ohio State, and the neutral site game against Alabama. 2013: UConn 24-21 Northwestern 27-19 Lost to Penn State, Michigan State, and Iowa. 2014: No road wins to this point in the season. Lost to Notre Dame, Rutgers, and Michigan State. Northwestern and Ohio State left to be played. There's also the 1-2 bowl record.

copacetic

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^

I think it would at least open the door to consider it, but still Hoke would probably be fired.

To take the hypoethitcal one step further, if Hoke finishes 8-5, and the new AD talks to Harbuagh, or Miles, or Mullen and can get one of them, who do you think he goes with?

hfhmilkman

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^

Hoke still needs to go.  The reason is the only way that we win out is dumb luck.  With a sample space of 4 games(bowl) then some strange things can happen.  The one exception is if Michigan wins out against teams playing their A game.  If we soundly beat NW and Maryland despite them being on top of their game, beat OSU playing their best ball, and beat a motivated team in the bowl game, then I would give Hoke a 5th year. 

Otherwise he has to go.  The reason  we are 4-5 is because of Hoke's well documented coaching failures.  If Hoke gets incredibly lucky by the ball bouncing the right way, other teams getting gutted by injury or lack of motivation, the same problems that afflicted us this year will remain next year.   Luck evens out.  Next year we will not be so lucky and have yet another struggling year.

The reality of us winning out without other team's help is about zero.  As pointed out by others we beat arguably the worse team in the Big10 that had a QB incapable of throwing the ball down the field. The roster is littered with 5 and high 4 star recruits who are under performing or not even able to get playing time.  For those who have not been paying attention the good teams in the conference have been winning like 60 to 0 against the doormats.

 

 

blueblueblue

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:16 AM ^

At Michigan you should show you can win consistently. Not in fits and starts, but consistently, given there will be some losses here and there. I think if Hoke wins out it will be a further indictment of his coaching.

Plus, there is a huge confounding variable you are ignoring if the team wins out - how can anyone know how much impact the notion of playing their last games for Hoke had on the team's ability to win?

maize-blue

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^

So far this season after every glimmer of hope (App. St., Penn. St., Indiana) where the team actually looks somewhat competent, we are quickly brought back down to earth the next game. They did what they should have done against Indiana, but it's Indiana. NW and Maryland are both capable of beating this team.

1932

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^

Hoke is starting to right the ship. After watching the Indiana game, I have complete faith in and fully support this staff. Hoke will get us there we as a fan base need to be patient and not so reactionary. Hoke deserves at LEAST one more year before we pass judgement on what kind of coach he is

maize-blue

November 3rd, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^

Perhaps my statement was slightly ambiguous. I am referencing the OP's self admitted "punch drunk" statement. After App. St. a lot were predicting 10-2. After Penn. St. a lot were talking themselves into the MSU game being competitive. And now after Indiana, there is a thread regarding winning out. Each time we beat a terrible team, a slight bit of optimism springs up from somewhere.

Ty Butterfield

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:25 AM ^

What if I win the lottery next week? I will buy a private jet, paint a block M on it and fly all over the country just to mess with everyone on MGoBlog.

champswest

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:26 AM ^

In that situation, they may very well keep him. Some would point to the Brandon departure as the turning point. Also, they could save millions on another buy out.

Frieze Memorial

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^

It is possible. One of the things I've learned about college students is they rely on their instincts and talent rather than conscious application of skill.  So given the right spark of motivation, they can transcend their normal ability level (which is low compared to professionals).  

Even though we got a worse coach in 2011, the team played *better* since they were finally free of all the distractions.  Even though we were a far worse team in 2013, they almost beat Ohio State because they apparently really, really wanted it.    So I can see us winning out. 

Inspiring college students to achieve is not an easy task.  I think Hoke's overall record shows that he is not elite at that task.

True Blue Grit

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:30 AM ^

We're not going to win out.  OSU is giving us an ass stomping at a minimum.  Even if we somehow beat NU and Maryland and get to a shitty bowl, and win (not likely), 7-6 is not enough for him to keep his job.

But, I'll play along for a second with the OP question.  I'd say there would be a 60 to 70% chance Hoke stays in that preposterous scenario. 

kyeblue

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:34 AM ^

and certainly will resign after another two losses. 

If we win out, which is possible with a lot of luck. Hoke should stay and things probably will turn better. 

The job of new AD is to secure a secretive agreement with one of two Harbough brothers so that the new coach will be announced soon after Hoke's resignation. 

 

 

Rodriguesqe

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:34 AM ^

if we convincingly beat NU, Marylan, win at OSU, and win our bowl game I'd consider bringing Hoke back unless a slam dunk is available (Harbaughs, Mississippi St coach). 

We'd have to do more than win, we need to look like a good football team. But at this point, if Harbaugh wants the job, he should get it no matter what.

1817

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^

Hokes "Total Body of Work" prevents him any further claim of HC. An impossible fluke streak won't happen because his record speaks for itself as well, and if someone is carried away with a victory over the Hoosiers...well, more power to you. I'd like to feel that good about this team again  sometime soon.

uncleFred

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:45 AM ^

Hoke will and should keep his job for the 2015 season.

1: The extention argument is a strawman. Hoke's contract runs to the end of the 2016 season, he is not a lame duck next year. 

2: Folks forget how good it feels to beat OSU. If Hoke runs the table the rest of the regular season and wins whatever bowl game results, he and Nussmeier will have provided enough of an offensive improvement to make another major program churn more risky than giving him his fifth year. The euphoria from winning 5 straight and beating OSU after a tough season will quell all but the most negative part of the fan base. 

3: Recruiting will be fine if Hoke wins in 2015. Period. The guy recruits at a high level when he's struggling. If he's winning he'll have no trouble recruiting next season. Finishing with five wins this season and a positive shift in the fan base will help to hold Hoke's remaining recruits and provide an atmosphere in which he'll be able to pick up solid guys to fill any hole opened by decommits. 

4:While the narrative here about Hoke's bumbling incompetence is pervasive, winning out largely mutes this meme. WInning out supports the argument that Nussmeier needed time to show a turn around and the staff should get another season to continue that trend.

Hoke is an incredibly likable man. While that should have no impact on perceptions of his skills as a head coach, it will have a impact on the willingness of a new AD to fire him if the end of this season shows promise. Hoke has earned a great deal of credit with the administration with his senior graduation rate and his focus on maintaining academic standards for his players. While that has little to do with the need to win games, it provides motivation to give him another season to  complete turning the program around. He needs to show promise in that area and winning out does exactly that. 

Of course he has to win. 

uncleFred

November 3rd, 2014 at 6:50 PM ^

Sigh - The majority of a small class are still hanging with the program. How is that a mass exodus? Yeah some are taking visits if only in self defense because the tire fire that is the fan base is screaming for Hoke's scalp. If he wins out and that screaming becomes praise I expect that concerned recruits will stand fast and that Hoke will fill in the gaps of those who've already punched out. 

Just because you've given up doesn't mean the guys who want to come and play at Michigan have. If Hoke can finish strong most of those guys will stay.

Icehole Woody

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:45 AM ^

Well, interim AD Hackett should take the what if off the table and let Hoke know that he's making a change at the end of the season.   Do this on Monday before the Ohio State game at the latest.  Hoke and his staff have proven all they need to already.  The quality of football reflects the quality of the coaching and it's been poor.

 

Go Blue!

WindyCityBlue

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:46 AM ^

...how will it impact recruiting. We are already losing some decent talent for very legitimate reasons (I.e. Hoke's ability to develop talent, etc). Will making this type of run at the end of the season change the general gestalt amongst our potential recruits, despite having Hoke remain as head coach?

tolmichfan

November 3rd, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^

I hate this meme that this board keeps saying. It is hurting recruiting, other coaches can point recruits to this board and say Michigan fans don't think thier coaches can develop talent, even though it is flat out wrong. This staff has taken guys like Heininger, Ryan, Clark, Taylor, Lewis, Kovacs, Gallon, Lewan, Schofield, and countless others into High quality players. This team is young, injured, and learning a new offensive and defensive scheme. As fans of Michigan we should do our part to make the team better and stop tearing it down.

WindyCityBlue

November 3rd, 2014 at 12:46 PM ^

Have you not seen the numberous objective analyses regarding the development of our players?  Some of this coming from NFL scouts.  I'll give you the cliff notes' version: Hoke and co. are doing a lackluster job developing talent.  Plain and simple.  This is not my analysis, but it doesn't take a football expert to see the "fruits" (or lack thereof) of Hoke's player development.  Sure, there are some nice examples of positive player development, but the question is if Hoke is getting the most out of them.  I think objective observers are saying "no!"

"I hate this meme that this board keeps saying. It is hurting recruiting, other coaches can point recruits to this board and say Michigan fans don't think thier coaches can develop talent"

Do you really think the opinions and analyses by posters on this board has any impact on recruits?  I'm confident it doesn't.  And if it does, it negligible.

"As fans of Michigan we should do our part to make the team better and stop tearing it down."

My job as a fan is not to make the team play better (at least not in a direct manner), that is the job of the coaches and the players.  My job as a fan is to show up and cheer like heck for them to win.  

tolmichfan

November 3rd, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^

Look at the talent level this team has had since the 2006 recruiting class. Look at all the washouts and guys that haven't made it through 4 years. How many of those players went to other schools or the NFL and been successful. I can tell you the numbers are depressing. I can think of four guys off the top of my head that have been successful after leaveing Ray Vinopal ( he is on his 5 year and wouldn't be playing if he stayed all 4 years in Ann Arbor), Cox ( who was a head case and didn't see the field under two coaches) Furman ( who was brought in as a 3-3-5 linebacker and didn't fit Mattisons defense), Rawls (to me this is the most disappointing guy, but he was going to get passed over by Green and Smith). I will agree that what we say shouldn't affect recruiting but it does. The recruits read this board and Brian has banned guys on this board for commenting on potential recruits. So when I hear beat writers bringing player development in press conferences weeks after this board has made a big deal about it, again it tells me people outside this board are paying attention to it, and we should watch what our comments are. I don't know any NFL scouts so I don't know thier analysis, but looking at recruiting profiles of past players and how they have played tells me a lot of those guys finished their careers about where they should. Also guys like Jake Ryan, Frank Clark, Ray Taylor, and Desmond Morgan have all out performed what thier recruiting profiles indicated. Last year they put Lewan, Schofield and Gallon in the draft and Fitz and I think Gordon made an NFL roster and that's out of a senior class that graduated I think seven guys that actually plaid. This years senior class is also small and will put a good percentage of those guys into the NFL. The problem with this team over the past 9 plus years has been underwhelming recruiting because of coaching turnover not a lack of player development.

uncleFred

November 3rd, 2014 at 6:57 PM ^

Folks here who bash the program or the coaches like to say their comments are "just on the internet" at the same time they cheer when mgoblog ends up referenced by the natonal sports media. 

You can't have it both ways. If mgoblog can influence the national conversation on Michigan football (or the U's sports in general) then you MUST acknowledge that it is visible to and can influence the random high school recruit.

We've had a number of examples where comments here have generated a response from potential recruits. Irresponsible comments are irresponsible. 

tolmichfan

November 3rd, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^

I think you live in Chicago so I hope you are going to do your part and cheer the hell out of this team against NW. I would be makeing the trip to Chicago because that is one of the funest road games to attend but my tranny blew about a week ago and I have to pay for that over a trip to watch our beloved wolverines.

jblaze

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:47 AM ^

and I think Hoke stays, unless Michigan can land an A+/ A candidate (e.g. Harbaugh calliber guy).

I don't see the purpose of taking a guy that cold easilt become Hoke 2.0, because the assistants will likely be worse and it's not worth the gamble.

SalvatoreQuattro

November 3rd, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^

 Hoke has proven that he cannot take UM to where it has to be. Therefore, he must go regardless if UM can land JH or not. A B-level candidate would be better than the D-level coach we have now. There are plenty of better coaches than Brady Hoke out there. That UM fans are uanware of them does not mean they do not exist. That is why you have search committees.

Keeping Brady Hoke risks damaging the program even more. That cannot be allowed to happen. Michigan must fire Hoke. Hoke is a gangerous arm that must be amputated to save the body.

GoBLUinTX

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:50 AM ^

It will by definition mean the ship has been righted, that players are developing, that Hoke never lost the confidence of his players, that Michigan can win on the road, and that Michigan has demonstrably improved from last year.  I don't see it happening, but if it should, I don't see how Hoke cannot only survive the hotseat, but also earn an extension.  

AMazinBlue

November 3rd, 2014 at 10:53 AM ^

While beating Ohio State would be awesome.  The thought of this staff coming back next year makes me physically ill.  IMO, Hoke & Co. will NEVER come close to getting in the National Championship picture.  We need a fresh start with a coach who is fully aware and has a chip on his shoulder and he's not it

Soulfire21

November 3rd, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^

Post #143?

That reads

Recruits at a high level when struggling? Perhaps you've been living under a rock and missed the mass exodus of "solid commits" lately and the guys who were currently looking at Michigan are not bothering now.

I don't know how that is relevant to what I said.

And, without reviewing every post, I can confidently say I doubt more than 1-2% of people here are calling for Hoke to have his contract extended beyond it's current deadline of 2016.