Michigan DT Recruiting - Not a Single Rivals.com 2020 Top-50 DT?
Source: https://n.rivals.com/position_rankings/football/2020/DT
Rivals is just one piece of the recruiting industry landscape, I realize, but let's just use its data for the time being.
A big, gap-plugging DT is critical for EACH AND EVERY class from here on out. I don't care if he's a 5-11 'tweener with short arms but great leverage. Wisconsin will NEVER change their strategy / identity. OSU just followed their blueprint. Others will look to do the same if we have great speed on the outside (LB, Safety level) but no anchor. This is a critical time for Coach Harbaugh. Coach Harbaugh routinely has/offers a QB each and every class, regardless of depth or numbers. Which is smart. The absolute SAME has to be done for a gap plugging DT.
Alabama has 4... yes, 4 (!) of the top 50 DTs in the nation for 2020 according to this list. Nebraska has two. Frickin' Notre Dame has a kid ranked #25 and a four-star. Stanford comes in at #44 ranked. There is simply no excuse. I don't care if he's a three-star project. We need size at this position and we need to take one each and every year if the B10 "cross over" is always going to be Michigan-Wisconsin or Michigan-Minnesota and then that sledgehammer at the end of the season. This is just dumb. Hoke didn't do much right but he prioritized the line and this area as well. See Willie Henry. See others. Chris Wormley, etc. Heck even Indiana has a prospect committed on this list!
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:19 PM ^
Meanwhile, one of the top players in the country, Justin Rogers, is in UM's backyard and we didn't even get a sniff. 6'2" 310+ lbs. Will play DT in college at UK next to 365 lb Marquan McCall - also from Oak Park.
If I'm Harbaugh, I do whatever is necessary to get Steve Clinkscale on my staff. He recruits Youngstown OH very well with past stints at Toledo and Cincinnati. The guy is also absolutely crushing UM in the State of Michigan.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
If he's going to Kentucky, he's not one of the top defensive tackles in the country
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:31 PM ^
It has been suggested over on the wolverine.com that he couldn't clear admissions, so we didn't invest the time.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^
Also the Oak Park coach fucking hates us for some reason.
December 3rd, 2019 at 10:43 PM ^
The high school coach doesn’t decide where an Oak Park players goes to college. It’s up to the player and his family to come to see hat decision. Any ethical coach shouldn’t presuade or dissuade a player to pick a certain college.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:09 PM ^
Yes that right there .... that is another reason why we can't get talent we might want at times. They just can't get in / clear admissions. ANYONE can get in at Alabama for instance .... it's like applying to a community college ... yep ... you're in, no problemo. We need a way to skirt around that I think. Yes they have to go to class and keep grades up but figure out a way to get them in with some sort of program set up that allows them to move around the admissions issues but make up for it in some way to allow it happen. A prep program or a program that makes them required to take courses or whatever to get them caught up / up to par.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:01 PM ^
We do need coaches with Ohio connections, and need to get back into the state, and in a big way. Only way we will get back to beating OSU because it's the Ohio guys who want it more than anyone, with so much skin in the Game.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:26 PM ^
WTF?! OSU’s best players aren’t from Ohio. Meyer barely recruited Ohio and only took the elite kids.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:20 PM ^
OSU's current class has 7 Ohio commits. They're not doing it with Ohio kids -- they're getting the best players available from across the country no matter where they're from. That is what we should be doing too. We used to be able to go into California or Texas and pluck 5 stars like Warren and Mallett. Winning cures al.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:19 PM ^
Our DL and DB recruiting just baffles me. We have 18 DBs in the 2020 class. But almost all of them project to S or viper from what I recall. Hope I'm wrong. DL had a very good class last year. But we gotta keep that up almost every year. Hard to project Lewis and Jenkins. Like McGregor and hope he recovers from injuries into Aiden Hutchinson.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:22 PM ^
I hope McGregor does too. I am familiar with the family and he is pretty large for the genes. I'd not get too hopeful for inside. He is as likely to be Uche sized as he is Paye. I hope he has large people deeper in the gene pool. His family presently is not.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^
Kris Jenkins coming in at 240-250, Projected to do what Kemp and others have done and bulk up to play the interior. So 2 high 4* last year with the son of a 360 pound 10 year NFL veteran this year.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:24 PM ^
UM was doing a decent job of recruiting DL, the problem has been keeping them. Aubrey Solomon, James Hudson and Deron Irving-Bey were all big DT gets coming out of H.S. Problem is they all left.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:46 PM ^
Corey Malone-Hatcher was another guy they thought they had when they started recruiting the 2020 class. Not a big time guy like the ones above, but he would be the type of body the OP wants added to this class.
I'm fine with skipping DT this class, as long as we knock it out of the park next year. Bringing in a DT transfer would be an answer too.
December 4th, 2019 at 8:26 AM ^
Malone-Hatcher would have been a DE.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:03 PM ^
Well then it wasn't good recruiting if they go after guys who will flake. One leaving is a shame but when three leave then they overlooked things that matter.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:38 PM ^
We've not recruited some highly rated kids for this very reason, but people (probably you as well) have bitched about this too.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:55 PM ^
Coaches knew DT was a problem before the season...Zach Abercrumbia anyone?
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:30 PM ^
Desperately need both Hinton and Smith to become major pieces next year. Then hopefully you have Jeter as another bigger body guy to spell them if he can also take a step forward. Then you have Dwumfour for pass rushing and possibly can still get Kemp back for extra depth. Best case Hinton and Smith improve enough to start, and then a starting lineup of Paye, Hinton, Smith and Hutchinson becomes a very large d-line.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:06 PM ^
Paye just looks undersized to me. I'm probably wrong but want to see Wormley sized ends. I never want to see a Wisconsin drubbing like that again. Would rather lose not being able to handle the spread teams, but not the big boy teams. With big players you have a chance. You take away the center of field. With small players you have no chance vs the bigger teams.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:34 PM ^
Paye is not undersized, he is 275-280, that is very good size for a DE. 10lb+ heavier than OSU's starting DE's for comparison.
December 3rd, 2019 at 6:42 PM ^
Hate to say it but 3 years in the Program and a bunch of playing time up for grabs, yet Jeter didn’t do anything of note. Not sure there’s going to be much production there. I’d be looking at Hinton and Smith more.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:31 PM ^
after the game, I was like we better start recruiting multiple DTs, checks sites no defensive tackles committed. we are lost
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:33 PM ^
Yup. Things are only going to get WORSE for the forseeable future under Harbaugh, because 20-30 point beatdowns by the buckeyes weren't bad enough.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:44 PM ^
I have it on good authority* that Jim Harbaugh personally called Rivals and insisted that any defensive lineman Michigan had a chance with be labeled as a SDE instead of a DT so that mgoblog could have more threads about the lack of DT recruits.
Anyone know if Juan Harris has any eligibility left? If so, maybe he'll be in the portal and can come be the "360" pound mountain of man meat in the middle that some are so desperately craving.
* my good authority is a stuffed muppet, which seems about as useful as anything else on the internet.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:45 PM ^
The 2017 DL haul is somewhat of a bust. That class had 3 true DT's including a 5* and 4*. Neither of who are on the team currently. There were 2 or 3 tweeners in that class that are no longer on the roster either. Jeter was also in that class but is buried in the depth chart.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:54 PM ^
Whatever Alabama, Clemson, and OSU are doing in recruiting, we need to do the same.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:56 PM ^
But why?
I hate being made to do this, but this topic is where the divide between alumni and non-alumni becomes apparent.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:32 PM ^
1. You can tell who are alumni and who aren't on the basis of their monikers?
2. To. Win. The. Game.
Inasmuch as they are in no trouble with the NCAA, one can reasonably assume they are operating within the rules. So, go thou therefore and do likewise.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:33 PM ^
Feel very similar.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:59 PM ^
I didn’t go to UM and I absolutely reject the win at all costs mentality. Integrity matters.
UM is much more than a football program. That is what those who think UM should cheat forget. It represents 500,000 alumni, 40,000 students, and tens of thousands of employees. Cheating sends a bad message.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:56 PM ^
Who said anything about cheating? If OSU was cheating, they'd be caught, no? Do WHATEVER OSU is doing. The NCAA seems fine with it.
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:25 PM ^
There's WAY too many fans here who can't comprehend that maybe, just maybe, the Ohio's and Alabama's of the world aren't cheating as much as they think. Ole Miss, sure, it's obvious. Kirby at Georgia, possible. Clemson, probably a little given they've been busted for PED's and the offer at Rashan. But Ohio doesn't have to cheat. They tell every recruit that you get to compete for national titles and beat the shit out of your rival every year and boom, top 5 class.
Stop worrying about other teams breaking the rules. Stop bitching about paying the players. Recruiting is a mindset and an effort game. Harbaugh has proven he can close on top recruits. Dax Hill. Rashan Gary. He justs to get us up out of the mid teen's and into the Top 5 composite by any means necessary.
December 4th, 2019 at 5:58 AM ^
Alabama football players and their cars:
https://totalfratmove.com/alabama-football-is-the-best-car-dealership-in-the-country/
It seems obvious for Alabama as well.
December 4th, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
where's the evidence - any evidence at all - that OSU cheated under Meyer or Day?
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:57 PM ^
Imagine the difference having Karlaftis and Harrison would have had....
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:07 PM ^
Aren't those two smaller DEs ? We need DT.
December 3rd, 2019 at 6:21 PM ^
Karlaftis checked in around 285. But I mean him and Hinton were essentially the same body type. Hinton played sparingly.
December 3rd, 2019 at 3:59 PM ^
I'd trade our D-line for OSU's in a second, but I was amused by all the hand-wringing about how their O-line *greatly outweighed* our D-line.
Here's our O-line: 319-350-319-325-321
OSU's D-line: 267-285-310-265
Look at the difference! UM must have smashed that little 'ole D-line to bits, right?
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:10 PM ^
I don't think people have issue with our OL other than our tackles are short at 6-5 and not the usual 6-7 that we've had when we had dominant lines.
It's the DL size that is what people take issue with. DEs are small and DTs are undersized, and were bulked up DEs or OLBs. s
Cases in point...Kemp should have stayed thin and playing OLB. Danna I saw playing inside alot and he is a small DE.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:38 PM ^
The starting DE's are not undersized, both Hutchinson are Paye are in the 275-280 lb range. OSU started two DE's at 265 for comparison. DT was undersized for sure this year though, without a true 300 lb+ player. That is where next years line needs Hinton and Smith to become those guys next year.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:26 PM ^
Whoosh.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:12 PM ^
Rivals? What is this, 2012?
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:17 PM ^
You sure you want more Brady Pallantes ? I don't. I want true sized DTs.
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:29 PM ^
I think CB recruiting is a bigger concern. OSU has been bringing in elite WR talent and has the best WR class ever coming in next year and all Harbaugh has recruited at CB is one 5’7”/150 pound CB.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:16 PM ^
The program taking the next step all goes through beating Ohio State (winning the East, the conference, etc.) and to do that the recruiting and, possibly attrition, has to improve. The program does a great job in terms of competing with 95% of the country, but there is that large gap between UM and the top. I am not at all bashing the guys they do get bc many of them turn out to be studs, but there is actual data to support that blue chip recruits win programs championships. Number of 5 stars signed in the last 4 cycles (16-19):
Georgia - 18
Alabama - 14
OSU - 12
Clemson - 9
LSU - 7
Michigan has signed 5 and one of them (Aubrey Solomon) transferred. Not saying whether these schools have wholesome recruiting tactics or not (I'm sure everyone can do their own interpretation) but this is what is separating Michigan from the elite. Scheming can only do so much. The fullback that loves to hit people can only do so much. Coaching can only do so much. Players play the game and you need the talent.
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:29 PM ^
This is the reality and the situation that needs to be addressed. It's not that they cheat and we don't. It's that they finish the job and get the kids they need to get. We cannot compete with Ohio until we pull in top 5 classes year to year instead of top 15. It'd be easier to recruit if we had a win over Ohio under our belts (see Penn State since 2016) but I believe Harbaugh can do it.
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:30 PM ^
Malpractice to not take at least one DT in this class
December 3rd, 2019 at 5:48 PM ^
I am also worried about our corner back depth as well. We only have one commit and he is a hell of a player but only stand 5 foot 8 which will make it hard for him to be an outsider corner.