The B1G may be trying to add Oklahoma and Texas
That would effectively kill the Big 12.
December 7th, 2018 at 6:44 PM ^
Great link. While it may not be etched into the letter of the law, T Boone Pickens has a lot of political sway and many of his minions have gone on record that they control enough of the levers of power to prevent a split. That said, Fox being part of the B1G negotiations adds to the war chest to pry them apart.
Texas and Oklahoma would put the B1G well above the SEC both financially as well as athletically. The SEC would have few options to counter such a strong move. They could dream of getting ND, but academically they don't fit the SEC. It'd be a tough pull, but getting UT/OU might be check mate in terms of the B1G being the premier conference for some time.
December 7th, 2018 at 12:47 PM ^
Kansas: you're forgetting the extra bonus of seeing Les Miles in our conference.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:37 AM ^
Doesn’t make sense and won’t happen. What would be the incentive for either side? The Big 12 is certainly better than the B10 West and that switch would make it extremely difficult for any team to get a playoff bid, even if they expanded the format.
Edit: The only incentive is for Jim Delaney and the almighty dollar
December 7th, 2018 at 9:40 AM ^
The incentive is seeing matchups between UM, OSU, PSU, OU and Texas on a semi-regular basis.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:08 AM ^
....and then when they beat each other up, espn will be asking for 2 ess eee see teams every year in the CFP and the ucf-shits of this world will continue to whine why after 1,237 straight wins they aren't in CFP.
December 7th, 2018 at 12:06 PM ^
No, ESPN will demand ALL sec teams in the playoffs
December 7th, 2018 at 10:17 AM ^
And then when we lose the panty-wad brigade grows even more twisted? Oh, great!
While all of this may point to an eventual 20-team national league (etc.) it all makes me yearn for bygone days at the Washtenaw Dairy with a donut and milky coffee, earnest but inconclusive conversations at season's end about who was really better.
December 7th, 2018 at 7:08 PM ^
Right. That way we can play them almost as often as we play Florida and South Carolina.
Sorry. Still bitter.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:40 AM ^
Your new edit calls it - MONEY. The B1G makes way more than the Big 12, and its growth oppy is significantly better. It would make financial sense for them to switch, if its handled correctly. Of course, they have to want to switch, as well...
December 7th, 2018 at 10:21 AM ^
When OK falls into some big historical hole--as football schools tend to do from time to time--then you're left with the 124th-ranked really bad university in the country, far far worse than Rutger or MD, hanging on for dear life to your once-proud conference.
If there were some honest attempt to lift all of these schools scholastically, that might be cool.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:52 AM ^
Doesn't same apply to Nebraska and they obviously are in.
December 7th, 2018 at 11:49 AM ^
It nearly did, though. They were a member of the Association of American Universities when they were admitted to the Big Ten, and there was much rending of the garments when they were voted out. It seemed to be a fairly widespread belief that they would not have been invited if they hadn't been an AAU member at the time. (13 of the 14 Big Ten institutions are in the AAU).
UT-Austin is. OU is not.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:42 AM ^
This wouldn't happen until 2024-2025ish, which is exactly when the 4-team playoff is about to wrap up. So this would most likely happen with a 8-team playoff in mind. We definitely would have 2-3 teams in that playoff if we had 2 more strong brands in the conference.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:23 AM ^
Yeah, but in an 8 team playoff we would have 2-3 teams with the current B1G teams, there have 3 BIG teams inside the top 9 of the CFP rankings since 2015. In 2014, the B1g still had 2 teams in the top 8(and in 2016, there were 4 teams in the top 8).
Texas and OU bring more money, but I don't know if it brings anything except the chance for more losses on the field.
December 7th, 2018 at 11:04 AM ^
if we had 2 more strong brands [emphasis mine] in the conference
We now know what Dave Brandon is up to post TRU bankruptcy.
December 7th, 2018 at 11:14 AM ^
Dave Brandon take over for Jim Delany?
Yeah, that'd fly.
December 9th, 2018 at 11:01 AM ^
No, he's posting here incognito.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:51 AM ^
It is something needs to happen, though. I agree that Delaney is typically just a comedian and a masturbator, but I think that he sees that the college football landscape needs some revisions. I believe it is initially spawned from OSU being left out of the playoffs as BIG champs in back to back years, but that there is also an element of bigger thinking at play. The Playoff as it currently stands is a "half-measure." In my opinion changes like the two discussed by the BIG recently (modified championship game formulas, conference size modifications) are steps on the way to a much more coherent product.
Take a look at the New Years Day selection of games this year. The Rose Bowl may get some eyeballs but nobody is watching the rest of that bullshit. (And frankly I don't think the TV ratings for the Playoff in areas with teams not in the Playoff will be particularly high. I'm not planning on watching. I will watch the Michigan game that day and be out because I frankly don't give a shit about watching Bama v. Clemson VII or whatever it is). The college football post-season is an issue that needs to be addressed.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:08 AM ^
ijohnb's point that the post-season needs to be revised is 100% accurate. As it currently stands, the 2 semi-finals games will draw a lot of eyeballs because they are exciting match-ups of big time programs playing for a championship (set aside for a moment that Clemson-Bama is becoming as boring as Cavs-Warriors). But, the addition of the playoffs has rendered the remaining bowls completely meaningless exhibition games that top players are starting to routinely opt out of.
Pre-playoffs, the bowls had real meaning and any 2-4 bowls could actually decide the national championship. See 1997, for example. The bowls were the only way to measure conferences and making a big time bowl like the Rose meant a ton to a team. This year, it's OSU's consolation prize.
A week ago, a poster on this site proposed an 8-team playoff in which the P5 champs got auto-bids and the remaining 3 were at large. That would allow a team like UCF that has gone undefeated for 2 seasons to actually get in and take their shot against Bama (spoiler: it won't go well for UCF). It also leaves room for a team like OSU (that had one really bad loss, but also hamblasted the #4 team in the country), Georgia (who hung with Bama), Michigan (which had two losses, on the road, to top teams, and one of which was a close game with a new QB in the opener) a shot to get in and expand the pool. That's a great proposal and so simple.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:22 AM ^
It is a great proposal, but while simple in theory, could only exist after the removal of several layers of non-sense preventing it from being a reality.
1. Terrible games against cupcake opponents that nobody goes to don't make sense anymore, for anybody. They basically "don't count" as wins and take up a spot on the schedule where an otherwise compelling or conference game could be scheduled. These games are scheduled years out though.
2. Divisions are not properly aligned and different conferences have different number of teams and conference games, and the winners of these games are not auto-bids anyway and don't often do much for a resume. Conference championship games are great for revenue, but are becoming a "mostly downside" entity as far as making the Playoff. That is completely backwards. But conference schedules are made years out and also go hand in hand with the "cream puff" games mentioned above that are also already scheduled.
These are major impediments to the modification of the current system anytime soon. But when the Fiesta Bowls draws a 1.9 rating this year for viewers it may get a little bit of urgent attention.
December 7th, 2018 at 11:49 AM ^
Both are good points.
Regarding the cupcake non-conference games, I think that all of CFB would benefit from those going away or being relegated to opening week as something of a de facto pre-season game. The game would count, but it would basically be a way to avoid what happened this year where our team was really good, but had to open on the road against ND with a new QB. If that game is played any other time in the season, I think that we win. I could see a schedule that goes as follows: Open against a MAC (or equivalent) team, and then move directly into conference play for the next 11 games. If people want to limit conference games to 10, then you can add a second non-conference game along the way, but perhaps include some rule that requires P5 teams to play other P5 teams.
As to the games being scheduled years out, that's not an issue, since whatever happens won't take effect until 2024 at the earliest.
December 7th, 2018 at 1:30 PM ^
well, initially, the bowls were more like exhibitions. they were rewards to teams up north to go to a warm weather spot as a reward for a good season. so maybe we need to go back to that. have the 8 team playoff and get rid of half of the existing bowls, because they would probably lose money. the tv ratings for the bowls are just going to be further hit.
December 8th, 2018 at 7:19 AM ^
You claim that the CFP rendered most bowls to "completely meaningless exhibition games" - what do you believe they were before the BCS/CFP? The Rose Bowl itself began as an exhibition game to attract people's attention to Pasadena. The other major bowls were always exhibition games from the outset as well. This stopped no one from watching/attending/playing in the past.
December 8th, 2018 at 9:45 AM ^
This is not true. Often times the NC was decided by bowl game performance and it could have been from one of several of the bowl games.
December 9th, 2018 at 6:27 AM ^
That had no effect on the whether or not the games were exhibitions or not. Also, sometimes the last polls came out before the bowl games. The only real difference between bowl games now and pre-2000s is that there are so many more of them, so that the idea of going to a bowl is no longer considered an honor. Personally, I'm ok with that since I would rather have more cfb played than less (but a longer season, like NFL does, would work just as well - does not need to be bowls, specifically).
December 7th, 2018 at 10:56 AM ^
“The Big 12 is better than the B1G West.” Right now, yes.
But you’re taking the two best teams out of the Big 12 and putting them in that B1G West.
Is a conference of: Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa St, West Virginia, and TCU REALLY better in your mind than a division of Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern?
December 7th, 2018 at 8:33 PM ^
The incentive for almost every team not in the B1G is $$$ and academic resources. No matter how bad Illinois is on the field, their share of B10 Network money exceeds most non-B1G universities.
All B1G schools are or were AAU accredited (Neb lost their status but had it when they were admitted). No other power 5 conference comes close. The B1G also part of the CIC which is a huge academic resource which most university faculties envy. Access to the CIC was the reason the ND faculty once expressed support of a move to the B1G.
It's not just W's and L's. Other than cultural or geographic problems, the B1G is a dream for most universities.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:38 AM ^
This was linked in a comment on an OP yesterday (or last night) but it certainly deserves the bright light of day in a new OP! It would be a helluva coup by the B1G to draw in both OU and UT - especially without the Longhorn Network.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:51 AM ^
I did a quick search because I didn't want to make a repeat post.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:15 AM ^
No worries - you wouldn't have ever found it via topic search, because it was embedded in a comment on on unrelated OP. I searched!! This OP... Again, it was buried in a comment - not the OP itself...
December 7th, 2018 at 9:39 AM ^
According to the article this wouldn't be until 2024/2025, a lot of time for things to change before then.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:40 AM ^
This would ruin college sports. Please no.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:40 AM ^
I've got a much better idea: 10
December 7th, 2018 at 9:41 AM ^
If football ends up with 16 team conferences, maybe that's a sign conferences aren't necessary. Remove the conference title games, go to a true postseason tournament, and pay the money that went to conference "executives" to the athletes.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:42 AM ^
Stupid idea
December 7th, 2018 at 9:43 AM ^
From what I recall reading from similar threads on other boards, you can't get Oklahoma without Oklahoma State. And I'm not sure either are good enough academically. Texas might overshadow it all, however.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:49 AM ^
I find it hard to believe that OK would not approve this if faced with (1) we are taking TX so join or be left behind, plus you get a bunch of $$, or (2) stay with OK St., watch the Big 12 fall apart and....profit???
December 7th, 2018 at 10:07 AM ^
It's not a matter of law, exactly, but from what I understand, it's an issue of the state legislatures.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:37 AM ^
This is a salient point because every state is different, but these things DO matter. Especially, when a man like T. Boone Pickens is an Okie State booster. And I guarantee you that he has significant pull in the state legislature and would not be thrilled if his university got left behind in a broken Big XII while OU got to rake in the cash in the Big Ten.
December 7th, 2018 at 1:35 PM ^
OK St is attractive enough to have options. If the Big Ten picked up Texas and OU, the SEC and Pac-12 would be looking to pick the bones of the Big 12. OSU would probably be the top choice of each.
When the Big Ten reveals their 16 team format and schedule, I expect other conferences to follow suit. I mentioned above that 16 is just a better number for 9 game schedules.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:43 AM ^
Much rather have UVA and UNC. Better schools. Strengthen the East. Texas is a LONG way from MI
December 7th, 2018 at 11:02 AM ^
UNC is 643 miles from Ann Arbor by car. Austin is 1333. So obviously UNC is closer, but UNC is far enough that is a plane ride anyway. When you consider the time of the total trip, time to gather, get to the airport, board, fly, deboard, get to destination, how much of a difference does another 1.5 hours in the air make?
December 7th, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^
Wrong. We’ll have flying cars by 2025.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:44 AM ^
Who will first win a B1G football title next - Michigan or Oklahoma? Sorry, neg away, I'm still bitter on the OSU dismantling.
December 7th, 2018 at 9:44 AM ^
Might be one way to get a B10 team into the playoffs. (tongue in cheek)
December 7th, 2018 at 9:45 AM ^
Add them and four other teams. Arrange divisions by seniority in the league. No crossovers, no league championship game. Name the new division "Mo Money".
December 7th, 2018 at 9:46 AM ^
Oklahoma probably wouldn't cut it academically for the Big Ten... though we did maneuver to get Nebraska in so who knows
December 7th, 2018 at 10:11 AM ^
Is Oklahoma worse academically than Sparty and Rutgers? Serious question, as I have no idea.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:25 AM ^
College rankings are a little silly, but US News has Rutgers at 56th nationally, while Little Bro is a substantially worse 85th. This confirms my prior based on interacting with faculty at both schools.
Oklahoma is much worse at 124. Interestingly, I've never once seen someone from Oklahoma at a conference. Nebraska is 129th (bad) but they're using their B1G money to hire new and probably better faculty, so I expect that to improve over time.
December 7th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^
Posts like this are vomit-inducing.
Yeah, once again, some guy on a message board is an authority on academics. "I never saw someone from Oklahoma at a conference"
Some call it a conference, others call it a Star Trek convention...