Was it as bad as we think?
I was at the game and it felt like a train wreck. However, watching it live you don’t see as much as you do when you watch the tape. I finally got a chance to watch the game. I came away thinking it wasn’t quite as bad as I thought at first. There were so many plays here or there that could’ve made a huge difference. I don’t feel like Notre Dame outclassed us at all, it certainly wasn’t like 2014. The problem is, every single big game we have feels like the same thing. One play or two plays or a handful of plays here or there that the other team makes and we don’t make. Does anyone feel any better about this game after letting it brew for a couple days? Or is the sky still falling? I’m not really sure what to think at this point.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:21 PM ^
I think a lot of the accusations of hollistic coaching failure are way overblown. I had no issues with the game plan or play calling. The defense, outside of a couple mistakes and costly penalties, the defense was good again. The non-OL positions looked good too.
The OL, specifically LT was every bit as bad as people are saying though. I don't even think Ulizio was this bad early last year.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:50 PM ^
You watched that game and came away with "no issues with the game plan or play calling?"
Did you watch any of the 4th quarter?
September 4th, 2018 at 1:08 PM ^
If you buy that they were worried about getting the right play call late in the game and avoiding penalties as opposed to complete speed (which I find somewhat plausible) I'm in this camp.
Instead of an overall failure, it really boiled down to a handful of mistakes that were all punished (other than Shea's attempted throw over the middle while he was being hit).
- Metellus ejected
- Leads to Hawkins being targeted and missing on a should be interception turning 0 points into 7 points
- Shea sacked out of field goal range turns 3 points into 0 points
- Poor play call on 2nd and 2 takes Michigan back to the 10 and turns 7 points into 3 points
- Winovich penalty turns 3 points into 7 for Notre Dame
- Fumbled snap on the field goal costs Michigan 3 points
- 3rd and 18 play call by Don Brown gives Wimbush an opening for a first down, leads to 3 points for ND.
Really the only thing that went against Notre Dame that cost them was the penalty that turned a touchdown into a field goal.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:48 PM ^
Both the offensive mistakes you noted were the direct result of the LT getting beat like a drum. Playcalling and QB play could be better maybe, but on the other hand, the LT executing a basic stunt or pass pro and it goes much differently.
September 4th, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
I probably should have said I don't attribute all of those mistakes to playcalling. Really just the 2nd and 2 near the goal line. They should have just powered that in playing to their strength up the middle. Reminded me of the final real drive against Ohio State last year. Michigan is tearing it up on the ground, then the ball is put into O'Korn's hands on 2nd and short and he trips and falls on a lineman.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:22 PM ^
Yes. We got dominated. Our defense gave up too many points for an offense that only scored 10 points.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:46 PM ^
MSU looks eminently beatable. If we hadn't gone out and laid an egg against a ranked opponent (again), the in-state football story would have been Sparty's close call against Utah State.
And look at you, calling the coach Jimmy, like you're old pals or something. GTFO
September 4th, 2018 at 1:00 PM ^
Consistent, adj, unchanging in nature, standard, or effect over time.
MSU's 2012 record: 7-6
MSU's 2016 record: 3-9
I guess we have different definitions of the word "consistent"...
Also, you're using "Jimmy" snidely, and don't pretend you're not. You can call him what you want obvs, but I can eyeroll it all I want chief...
September 4th, 2018 at 1:02 PM ^
I have been patient since Harbaugh arrived, but looking back over the last four seasons, it seems like we peaked out with Jim from near the end of Season 1 (2015 with Rudock) through the Season 2 (2016) Iowa game when Speight got hurt. Ever since then, it's been one disappointment after another against any team with a pulse. Remember, 2016 was when we blew out Penn State at home, arguably the last quality win we've had.
We were at Buffalo Wild Wings watching the game on Saturday, sharing the venue with the local Alabama alumni club. They had the bar area, we had the dining room. It was beyond depressing to hear their fans whooping it up for hours while we quickly fell behind and struggled for hours to try to save face. The whole vibe reminded me of the opener against Alabama in 2012 when they showed us they were a whole tier better than us. I'm just glad we weren't playing them on Saturday, it would have been another thirty point blowout.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:24 PM ^
It was as bad as we think but it was also the most meaningless game on our schedule. If we take the lessons learned from this game and take the next few weeks against western and smu to break in new tackles and get the offensive game plan right we can still make a run this year. PSU and MSU are exactly who we thought they were, good but beatable teams. The team still has a floor of like 8 wins and is a break or two away from a 10 win season, make those 10 the right games and you can win a championship a la psu two years ago.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:25 PM ^
I'm worried that the team plays with zero heart.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:29 PM ^
HOT TAKE!
This notion is just plain stupid. How you jumped to the "zero heart" conclusion is beyond my mental capacities.
Oh, wait. This is the internet.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
What an odd take. They went down big right away and battled back. The defense gave up fewer than 70 yards in the second half and the offense brought it to within one score and was driving to tie. If they had zero heart the second half would have turned into a blowout.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:28 PM ^
Depends on your perspective. If you thought this team was a true NC contender then yes, there are things that even if a level of "fixed" happens it probably is impossible to get a degree enough of "fixed" to get to NC level - for example, OT play and interior DL play. NC isn't happening.
If you think this team ceiling was somewhere around 10-3, then I think you can step away and say - lost by 7, opening game, on the road, at night, to a top team. There were plenty of positives, and plenty of things that can be fixed that can push this team to where they need to be to make it there. Heck, this may even end up being a "good loss" when all is said and done.
Reality is, 1Q, game 1 of a season, all things are pretty much a coinflip, but you can give advantage to the home team for the first few series. That second TD was a coinflip, and unfortunately it went to the bad guys. I'd say knowing this, give credit to Kelly and their offensive play calling. Coming out aggressive was 100% the way to start the game - before the advantage fades.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:28 PM ^
Yes, it was bad awful.
Doesn't mean can't win the next 10.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:30 PM ^
I saw a Notre Dame team that was completely beatable and we could only scrape together a single offensive touchdown. For all the hype around Shea Patterson, the offense still struggled to move the ball because the offensive line performance appears to be trending towards the worst case scenario.
On the positive, MSU and PSU both looked pretty underwhelming themselves, so those games look less scary. Maybe we'll see improvement in the coming weeks as the starters on the OL get more experience, but does anyone think we're going to be handle Wisconsin or OSU at this point?
I hate to say it, but I think we're looking at 9-3 and another 2nd or 3rd place finish in the East, which will be frustrating given all the talent we've had on the defensive side of the ball.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:48 PM ^
"Jimmy" lol
September 4th, 2018 at 12:45 PM ^
9-3 with this schedule would be 10-11 wins in most regular seasons. ND, MSU and OSU on the road, PSU and Wisconsin at home, plus Nebraska, N'W and Maryland could all be decent teams. If you offered me 9-3, I'd take it because it'd mean we beat at least 2 top 15 teams (most likely).
And I'm sure some will bitch and moan and say "why don't you expect more! this is the problem with Michigan and our fans and blah blah blah". I'm just a pragmatist. Some coaches can come in and make a program elite right away. We've been pretty bad for a decade. JH has the best three year stretch in Michigan history since 2002-04. Which is sad, but also a reality of the program.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^
You're insane if you think RichRod was "trending" toward where we are right now with Harbaugh. RichRod's BEST season was 7-6 with uncompetitive losses to Iowa, MSU, and Penn State. We lost in straight up blowouts to Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Mississippi State.
Also, who says we're doomed to 9-3 forever? Harbaugh has two 10-win seasons that were both closer to 11 or 12 than the other way around. The one abominable and incomprehensible 8-win season was with the youngest team in the B1G and two injured quarterbacks. Step back from the ledge.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:18 PM ^
I really don't understand the idea of 9 wins being a ceiling when you have two 10-win seasons and a single 8-win season. Again, that 8-win season was with the youngest roster in several decades. Additionally, right now the depth chart at tackle is:
Senior: JBB
Junior: Ulizio and Runyan
Sophomore: LOL
Freshman: A bunch of dudes
I'm willing to bet that the run-blocking (and blocking in general) can get better with Warriner and experience. Is the defense going to drop off significantly with Don Brown?
September 4th, 2018 at 1:51 PM ^
There are several things going on simultaneously:
1. Newsome had to retire early and LTT got the boot, significantly limiting our options.
2. Harbaugh et al. absolutely recruited like shit at tackle in the transition year and the first full year. Warriner was hired to address this at least somewhat. Hopefully Warriner proves better than Drevno in this area, but only time will tell since it's his first year. At every other stop, Warriner has done an outstanding job.
3. Drevno and Fry were both good line coaches in isolation, but had different areas of expertise. Linemen were confused last year and missing assignments. We went out and got the best line coach in the business to fix this, but he's had very limited time to address the issues and OL is notoriously slow to develop. This is why in most programs, young starters are the exception rather than the norm. Game one at night on the road against a good opponent is not exactly the best learning environment. Based on Warriner's track record, I see no reason to doubt he can at least get the mental errors fixed.
4. Runyan and JBB probably shouldn't be starting at tackle for anyone due to speed limitations. A program with non-freshman bodies would be able to remedy this, but Ulizio is literally the only other tackle who fits that description. Again, based on Warriner's track record, I expect the mental errors to mostly go away through drill and practice. In the meantime, the young guys will develop. There's nothing inherently awful about Jim Harbaugh that prevents OL development. His stints at U San Diego, Stanford, and the 49ers are proof of that.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:37 PM ^
Like with every new hire, we also get stoked and overexcited. We won 10 games each of his first two seasons. 10 wins this year is not at all unlikely. My comment about 9-3 being fine has more to do with us having the most difficult schedule in college football this season. Everyone but Alabama, Clemson and OSU would probably be fine with a 9-3 season with this schedule.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:32 PM ^
Depends on your expectations, I think. And yeah, we overreact to losses like every fan base does. But we’ve had 9 opportunities in the last 18 games to overreact. So at what point does it go from overreaction to “Wait, I think there might actually be a legitimate criticism or two in here somewhere.”
If you’re happy being a consistently competitive team, we’re fine. If you’ve been expecting national titles under Harbaugh, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask whether this approach to offense is ever going to be enough for Michigan to be not good, but great.
Our scheme is outdated, we’ve struggled at QB and on the OL - the two positions our HC is supposedly known for, and we’re plagued by odd decisions when it comes to play calling, clock management, and maybe the biggest issue - offensive assistants.
Next year we lose most of our defense and quite possibly our QB. Recruiting appears to have dipped. So if we go out and lose 3 or 4 times this year, where is that point in the future that we look to and say, there it is, that’s gonna be the year, that’s when it’s all gonna come together for Michigan?
I honestly feel like the one thing that can give Harbaugh a chance to win a title will be his willingness to hand over control of the offense to a good OC. Until he recognizes his own role in this and makes that change, I don’t see us ever being more than an 8-10ish win team, always good but always with at least one glaring weakness that holds us back from elite.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:32 PM ^
1. No it isn't, but...
2. We should have played Arkansas.
3. Fourth straight loss.
4. The game wasn't as close as the score indicates.
5. Better play but same big mistakes against running QBs.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:53 PM ^
The people claiming this was a close game are the same people who'd claim that MSU got waxed by us in 2016. Neither game was particularly competitive.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:34 PM ^
Was it as bad as we are making it out to be no but here’s my two sense. No tempo being down 14 with four minutes to go and your hudling wait for a play that’s bad coaching. Getting burned again and again by a running QB how many times do you have to touch a hot stove before you learn damn that really hurts that’s bad coaching. Play action when the other team is blitzing bad coaching. There is work to be done mostly coaching mistakes. Lastly Ambry Thomas get the ball in that kids hands whatever it takes he is a star.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
When we were down 21-3, it looked bad. A couple things happened in the 2nd half, our defense played better, but ND also stopped playing with a sense of urgency. Our offense was putrid, 3 points and 90 total yards in the first half is pathetic. Didn't do much in the second until late in the game when ND was in prevent and stopped rushing the QB.
I knew people would look at the final score and try to shine this loss up, but we looked as bad as we have since the low points of Hoke in that first half.
There are a lot of things to improve on and build off. This game won't define our season. But it was in fact not as close as the score would suggest. Now we have 2 cupcakes to get rolling against, but after we beat WMU and SMU by 40 each I don't think we should be thumping our chests at all yet.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
Yep, I saw no improvement from last year.
We are Northwestern/Iowa. Good schools with nice coach and always end up with 3-4 losses.
It's a negative feedback loop, kids in high school have never seen a great Michigan football team. If I am 5 star and I look at the polls and Michigan year after year ends up around 20, I am moving on.
Kids don't look at UFRs they look at standings, scores and they hear "Harbaugh can't win big games".
September 4th, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^
You can't possibly be serious. You would love to be Iowa or Northwestern? Look, I know we went 8-4 last year with the youngest Michigan team in the last 4 decades and that was the worst thing that has ever happened, but 8 wins is on the upper end of what Iowa typically does. In the last 8 seasons Iowa has one season with more wins than Harbaugh's worst. Northwestern pretty regularly misses bowl eligibility and just as often squeaks into the Pizza Pizza bowl, with the occasional 10-win season peppered in there.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:59 PM ^
Iowa - 2 10 win seasons in the last decade
N'W - 3 10 win seasons in the last decade (in the easy B1G division)
Tennessee - 0 10 win seasons in the last decade
Michigan - 3 10 win seasons in the last decade
Seems like we are already at an Iowa/N'W level. We should absolutely be better, but 2 of those 10 win seasons have come in the last 3 years. We all want more. We want to be national title contenders. But overstating the state of the program is silly and petty.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:08 PM ^
Sure, if you pretend JH is somehow at fault for the RichRod and Hoke years and ignore all the 4-8, 5-7, and 6-6 years peppered in there. Get real.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:26 PM ^
I feel like we are the Big 10 version of Tennessee as well. Our glory days (national championships, Heisman winners) were back in the 90s, long drought without a conference championship, we both consistently loose to our rivals and most important we perceive ourselves as a program that should be a national championship contender but most people outside think we are delusional.
Biggest difference is that we have a couple 10 win years in the past decade (11/15/16) while Tennessee had a couple 9 win season. Either way our best years were supposed to be a sign of bigger and better things that have not turned out yet.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:41 PM ^
I just don't know how you can watch that game and say....this is a well coached team. That's bad considering who is on this staff and what they are being paid.
Came out flat, D got worked early, the O was a shambles for most of the night outside of improved QB play.
I am worried about the Nebraska, NW, and Maryland games now to be honest. This team is not going to be able to sleepwalk their way to the Wisconsin game.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
When I was a junior at the Air Force Academy, it came time to order my class ring, and we were given an option to put an inscription on the inside of it. At the time I was on academic probation, because my grandfather had died, I had gone to his funeral in Kansas City and my lab partner had turned in a report that both of us had worked on, except the section I did was my own work and the section he did...wasn't(so I got no credit for a major assignment and got to spend three months confined to the Academy, all for trusting a classmate). I decided to inscribe, "Yes it was" into my ring, so every time I thought, "Well maybe it wasn't that bad." I could take off my ring and be reminded, "Yes it was." We all need an inscription for this game, so we don't buy the fools gold anymore.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:48 PM ^
Well said. I always laugh when people say "things can't get any worse". Oh yes, yes they can.
September 4th, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^
No optimism here until I see us beat a real team on the road. Bottom line
September 4th, 2018 at 12:55 PM ^
It probably wasn’t but that in of itself is the problem for some. Myself included. I’m not sure if I hateed getting shit kicked with Hoke’s teams or “being a few plays away” with JH more. At least with Hoke, we knew he was overmatched and there was an excuse. Year 4 JH losses with chances to win hurt just as bad or worse.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:05 PM ^
I didn't feel impending doom after the game, and I don't today. We gave up 14 quick points, fucked up a gimme field goal, and were still in position to tie the game in the final minutes. It was on the road, at night, first game of the season. New QB, new OL pieces (and coach). Let's see how the next month goes, and then start to form an opinion.
I'm certainly not one of the people screaming for heads, like half of the posters here the past two days.
That said, it was a pretty ugly game. Too many mistakes. Gotta clean up the sloppiness.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:09 PM ^
two balls that should have been intercepted, easily could have been intercepted, prevent that 14-0 hole..... Players gotta make plays when they have the chance.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:09 PM ^
I don't think it was as bad as I initially thought. It wasn't great - particularly the outside OL (as has been discussed ad nauseum) - but I'm certainly not ready to throw in the towel, either. The defense really settled in after the first two drives which consisted of some bone-headed penalties, fantastic improvisation by Wimbush, and a should-have-been-intercepted-but-ended-in-ND-TD-catch, etc.
Watching it live (I was there) I felt pretty listless, but following up afterward has convinced me the sky isn't falling (yet). With our 3 upcoming homegames let's build Shea some confidence and hopefully we're firing on all cylinders come MSU.
![nsr[1].gif](/sites/default/files/users/user124534/nsr%5B1%5D.gif)
September 4th, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^
It wasn't good. The problem with college football is that too much hinges on a game or two. These players aren't professionals and it's a game - there's random chance and iffy officiating calls. It's only "bad" because there's only 2-3 games each year which make or break a season.
Alabama is probably the only team which has such a huge talent advantage both in starters and depth that chance becomes much less important.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:22 PM ^
I feel a lot better. Reminds me of 2015 opener the more I think about it. I still think we win the East.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:22 PM ^
People overthink this stuff. They spent all spring and summer overthinking Michigan football and had somehow convinced themselves by August that this was the year. Like they had probably done over many springs and summer before. So then Michigan loses a meh road game vs a very good - possible top 5-10, likely top 15-20 - opponent in the 1st game and lo and behold the sky is falling.
Of course, Michigan tends to lose that first non-conference road game against a good opponent a lot, especially if it takes place in South Bend. It's a reoccurring thing in Michigan football history. It's happened to very good Michigan teams and it's happened to mediocre Michigan teams. It doesn't say the season will be a bust, it doesn't say the season will be a success. It's one game that's usually at best a toss-up i.e. the type of game you will probably lose 6 out of 10.
Perhaps this is a shocking turn of events if you managed to somehow delude yourself into thinking "this is the year, this is 1997". But that's your problem because that was never realistic. It was always a realistic scenario that even with an improved team Michigan may lose 3-4 games in the regular season this year. This team's come of an 8-5 year and is playing one of the most difficult schedules I recall us playing, no, this isn't 'the year'. Approach it with an open mind, maybe if we end up winning 11 games, you'll be positively surprised rather than griping about the 2 losses, maybe if we end up winning 9 games you accept it as that's okay.
It's a complete misunderstanding to think Michigan is paying Harbaugh to win a NC. Michigan is paying Harbaugh to be a competitive team winning 8+ games which is not something that can be taken for granted at all as we have seen in the last decade. The irony is, and most here will never understand it, is that if you accept all of that, our chances of winning a NC will likely increase because, believe it or not, a bipolar, neurotic environment that goes from NC fantasies to panic over the course of 60 minutes is not conducive to winning.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:50 PM ^
So Michigan is paying Harbaugh 7 mil a year plus incentives to field Iowa? Lol keep thinking that.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:50 PM ^
So Michigan is paying Harbaugh 7 mil a year plus incentives to field Iowa? Lol keep thinking that.
September 4th, 2018 at 8:11 PM ^
No, not really. We had a winning record in the 2000's against Notre Dame, and they were the ones who wanted out of the series after 2014, if you are old enough to recall the last twenty years. The fact is, ALL of our traditional rivals (#1 Ohio State, #2 Notre Dame, and #3 Sparty) are now beating us REGULARLY. Fluke plays, bad calls, lucky stuff for them, blah, blah, blah, yes it all happens in every time, but the end result is the same: we lose again to our rival or <fill in the blank> ranked team.
I, for one, am sick of us being the laughing stock of college football for the last eleven seasons and counting. Don't believe it? Put yourself in the shoes of an Ohio State or Michigan State fan, who can always count on Michigan for some good laughs whenever we're playing a team with a pulse.
September 4th, 2018 at 8:38 PM ^
Michigan was 3-7-1 in South Bend between 1980 and 2007, that covers the last decade of Bo, the Moeller and Carr eras. So yes, it's quite tough to beat them there. We have beaten them *once* there since then - in 2010 - and that was a 5 loss Notre Dame with a new coach.
And stop this bizarre 'woe is me' act.The laughing stock of football. Gee, I mean Georgia nearly lost in South Bend last year and got to the playoff final in the end. USC got *destroyed* there last year. Why don't you at least wait until after the Ohio State game before crying into your beer.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:26 PM ^
Upon watching the game a second time, something really stood out. We all know single plays can lead to wins vs. losses. This couldn't be more true from the ND game. I counted 5 individual plays that determined the win, sadly ALL 5 WENT TO ND.
1. 1st Drive DB (Hall) drops INT, drive continues and results in TD (ND +7)
2. 2nd drive Hawkins short arms INT and gives up arm punt TD. (ND+14)
3. Winovich roughing the passer after 3rd and goal stop, results in TD vs FG attempt (ND +18)
4. UM first and goal from 2, OL and play call result in sack 8 yard loss. Results in FG vs TD (ND +22)
5. UM 2nd and 1 from mid field (3rd quarter) OL/RB fail in pass protection. Shea makes bad decision instead of taking sack. Result INT and ND gets ball, killing promising drive.
So in 5 plays the point differential was +22 for ND.
September 4th, 2018 at 1:33 PM ^
Well, OK, but I'm sure ND wasn't happy about giving up a 99-yard return considering the outcome of that was we were down one score late. You could pick out a bunch of plays where ND could've put the game away but didn't.