September 1st, 2018 at 11:50 PM ^
Harbaugh needs to shoulder responsibility, but a big chunk of that goes to player development. QB is part of that last year, and tackle is, as well.
People are acting like this is the same team as last year; I disagree. The defense got burned a couple of times (nobody talks about that garbage PI call on Hill on the first drive, but that was suuuuch a pushoff; also that second TD was kinda lucky, but those plays happen) but they stiffened quite well the rest of the game. The offense got punched repeatedly, but Shea still drove them down the field for one TD and had a chance to do it again.
Last year's Michigan team doesn't do anything like that. Not even close.
Some guy on this board said that he ran into Jay Harbaugh during the offseason and asked about the team. Jay said it was going to be a really good team late in the season, but getting it to be good at ND in the first game would be tough. Well, it was tough, and the problem was the OL. The question is, (and it's kind of a hail mary question at this point) can the tackles, especially the young guys supposedly pushing for jobs, develop during the season? Some believe that the staff wanted Runyan and JBB in for this game because of the challenge of the environment, and then try out the younger guys.
If that's the case (we have no idea) I would expect to see Runyan on the bench next week and either Hudson or Mayfield out there. Because you may as well try them out. Get them some reps, more experience with the calls, and see if they can hack it. Mayfield, allegedly, can pass block fine, and his run blocking is bad. Maybe they need to give it a shot.
But who knows. We've had some bad luck (no RS for Cole, Newsome's medical) but we were ready to land two blue-chip tackles in Hamilton and Wilson and bombed both times. Either one of them on the field today and this is probably a win.
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:52 AM ^
Well the statement you made about talking to Jay and saying how this will be a really good team late made me feel a little better. Quite honestly, I thought we looked how I envisioned this off-season. What I think surprised ALL of us was how good ND looked. If we're looking at ND as objectively as possible, they look like a legit top 10, maybe top 6 team.
Their OL looked just as good as last year's when they had 2 top 10 picks. Wimbush looked like an even more athletic version of JT Barrett, with better accuracy to boot. Their defense would likely be top 3 in the BIG and they'll most likely finish top 10 nationally. Plus looking at their schedule, they should be favored in every game AND that's having to play VT, FSU, Stanford and USC.
The fact of the matter is, we got punched in the mouth early, made too many stupid mistakes(Winovich personal foul, Ross PI, botched FG, head up our asses on THIRD AND 18!) and lastly we just haven't learned how to mitigate our horrible tackle play, if it IS possible.
People will gloom and doom bc of the expectations they had of this season but we all need to keep things in perspective. No one wants to hear it but peoples shitty attitudes aren't going to help at all. We have 2 what should be gimme games coming up and a soft Nebraska team after that. Get the interior d-line to where it needs to be, learn how to play with our weaknesses offensively and for the love of god whatever we did in the red zone in 2016, just run those plays!
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:39 AM ^
Someone said that Jay Harbaugh said that this is going to be a good team later? This is what we’re down to now as hope & optimism? Sorry but that anecdote does absolutely nothing for me. Jay Harbaugh said?
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:20 AM ^
This is exactly what happened last year. Both times the backup came in unplanned (Purdue and Rutgers), the offense instantly simplified and moved well, like they all started breathing oxygen after being poisoned or something.
It's Pep. All the specific flaws acknowledged, it's still Pep. If this is still happening this year, it's a pattern with only two possible sources: Harbaugh or Pep.
September 2nd, 2018 at 4:51 PM ^
Agree. Not sure why yet, but I like McCaffrey at qb better.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:41 PM ^
Duplicate. sorry
September 1st, 2018 at 11:46 PM ^
Really, LT is a major weak link on the chain. Runyan got owned and could barely get his hands on the end. Dude should not be on the edge, but if not him then who? I am willing to try a frosh if one is waiting in the wings. Runyan is a guard, not a tackle.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:48 PM ^
I don’t know how it gets better on the line. Last year Harbaugh recruited a TE from Traverse City and a lineman from GRCC who excelled on defense.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:54 AM ^
Disregard. I can't do this anymore. FTR, I disagree, but nobody cares.
September 2nd, 2018 at 7:07 AM ^
"Anyone who thinks"
You are that sure of yourself?
The offensive line was better when Jedd Fisch was coaching with Tim Drevno coaching the O line?
If so, then you are saying Tim Drevno was not the problem last year. If Tim Drevno was not the problem last year, then who was?
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:35 AM ^
You can gameplan to mask the glaring OT issues, which we clearly didn't do. I was excited for the season because All offseason we were hearing quick pass, RPO, more shotgun being implemented. I was thinking that would be great to mask our terrible OTs, however, that didn't happen last night. Shea had no pocket, looked jittery in the pocket as a result, coaches didn't do anything to make life easier for him to make a throw throughout the game.
I agree with the OT takeaway, however, the coaching staff is clearly to blame for not coming up with a gameplan to mask what had to be an obvious weakness coming in, nor did they make any meaningful adjustments to stop/slow down the pass rush during the game.
Defensive gameplan was also piss poor. You can say it was piss poor to start the game and they made the adjustments, but I'm not buying that....it was painfully obvious what they needed to do to stop this ND offense coming into the game, yet it somehow took 3 scores for them to make the necessary adjustments.
what a waste of an immensely talented team, the disappointment level is through the roof.
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:32 AM ^
Stop it! We were running the ball effectively to the 2 yard line and for some inexplicable reason he decided to go play action with those bad tackles and we ended up on the 10. That’s a stupid ass play call. Go with what got you there!
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:34 PM ^
This is bullcrap, our defensive ends were killing their tackles but they designed plays where the qb got rid of it quick. Most of the sacks came when the qb held the ball too long, if nobody was open they should have been throwing it away much sooner. This is coaching and scheme, also 2nd and goal from like the 2 and were dropping back and getting sacked at the 10, that is horseshit playcalling.
September 3rd, 2018 at 3:32 AM ^
Gotta disagree. Tired of people putting the blame on our players. If anything, John O'Korn deserves an apology because at several times, our #1 QB recruit in the country a couple years ago appeared very O'Kornish.
The bottom line is Pep (and Harbaugh) expects pro level play out of college level quarterbacks. His system requires pro progressions and reads that other programs just do not have. If you watch Ohio State's well oiled machine, the job of the QB is almost always simple - one or two reads and go, period. This is how you can plug in your third string college kid and win an NC. Further, our QBs rarely try to fit tight windows. Take that Wimbush TD heave in the end zone. Our QBs, for years now, have rarely tried such throws, instead tentatively holding the ball and getting sacked.
In the second half especially, the offensive line gave our QBs plenty of time, and our QBs did a fine job of getting the ball out to their check downs, but how many downfield passes were thrown? 2 or 3 the whole game?
After this game, where Michigan had the #1 ranked QB from 2 years ago on offense, and the #1 ranked player on D from 2 years ago on defense, and came up with 10 points, I got off the bandwagon. Harbaugh's and Pep's offense is a dinosaur that has been substantially surpassed by systems deployed by other elite programs. 9 months to renovate after last year's disaster and literally no change at all.
The offense may tune up and dominate it's way to 9 wins this season but I saw enough yesterday to be thoroughly convinced this offensive system will not get us to a Big Ten championship or playoff victory.
I'd love nothing more than to be 100% wrong, but better reality than pie in the sky bullshit.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:33 PM ^
Harbaugh makes the calls not Pep. Fisch gets a lot of credit around here and I don't think anyone really knows if he had anymore to do with that offense then Pep does now. He did have a better OL to work with.
Bottom line it is hard to design a passing attack when your OL can't block
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:13 AM ^
Fisch gets credit here based on one Harbaugh soundbite.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:10 AM ^
It's amazing how people think they know what's going on inside the room.
The Amazon show reaction was astonishing, because people left and right were amazed at Pep.
It's not that he's not a smart guy. It's that people thought he was a mindless buffoon until they actually saw him working and realized that he knows a lot. All coaches know a lot. That might not make them good, but there's not a coach at a D-1, D-2, or D-3 program in the country that couldn't absolutely school any commentator on this thread about football. They know sooo much more than we do.
Harbaugh fields the offense he wants. He always has. He has guys that help him with things like calling plays, because he is at field level and he needs someone just to focus on the gameplan and watching what the players are doing on both sides while he makes game management decisions. But when they put together the gameplan, it's the one Harbaugh wants. He has a say over every package, over every play that will be available to choose from in every situation, every formation.
It's him. I think it can still work well this year, but it's not Pep, it's Harbaugh.
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^
So why was the offense better when Jedd Fisch was here? Jim Harbaugh changed into a different person when Jedd Fisch left?
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:22 PM ^
Because Jed Fisch had juniors and seniors and Pep has freshman and sophomores?
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:07 PM ^
Junior QB, Senior RB, Junior TE, Senior WR
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:41 AM ^
uhhuh
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:31 AM ^
If you look at the Zordich post before this game, a poster praised Pep because of the Amazon documentary and got tons of upvotes. LOL we're already back to hating Pep apparently.
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:11 PM ^
I want Pep Hamilton replaced. And I think Jim McElwain would be a great one for the job.
I don't care what Pep Hamilton looked like in a tv show. What I see on the field does not match what he sounds like when he talks on camera. That's all that matters.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:08 PM ^
All the Don Brown apologists are an embarrassment. There’s no defense that gives up more third and long plays than his over aggressive, undisciplined defense
September 1st, 2018 at 11:19 PM ^
Well actually there are plenty of defenses that give up more 3rd and long.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:21 PM ^
You realize, as bad as Michigan's offense seemed, they still outgunned the ND offense. Don Brown continues to be our saving grace.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:34 PM ^
Except the D was #1 in 3rd down conversion rate? STFU
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:08 AM ^
You do realize notre dame only had 75 yards in tbe second half. Notre dame made a couple big plays in the first and our O couldnt respond
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:20 AM ^
ND didn’t try to move the ball in the second half because they knew our offense sucked
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:21 AM ^
Yes, most teams literally stop trying with half the game left. Its common knowledge. They also keep their #1 QB in the game to hide the fact that they are not trying
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:15 AM ^
Well gee they sure did a great job of not trying because they gave their opponent the ball with 2 minutes left to tie the game.
I mean do you people hear yourselves? Sure there's a natural tendency to let off the gas when you're up big...but it was an 11 to 14 point game for the entirety of the 2nd half. That's not a lead you want to go ultra-Carr-conservative with for an entire half.
But yes, Brian Kelly is the evil mastermind who knew that we'd have a fumble to end the game so NO WORRIES OFFENSE! JUST STOP TRYING YOU GUYS! PACK IT IN!
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:46 AM ^
3 of the first 4 ND drives went 75 yds for a TD, 96 yds for a TD and 75 yds for a TD. I'd say that's more then a couple big plays.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
To hell with you moral victory.
September 2nd, 2018 at 7:07 AM ^
You, um, know we lead the nation in 3rd down D last year? Just bc they have a qb that's an rb and we lost contain on the first game of the year with a great gameplan to exploit our speed doesn't mean don brown can't get a stop on 3rd and long all of the sudden.
September 3rd, 2018 at 3:38 AM ^
Very true. Nothing more excruciating than watching this D crush on 1st and 2nd and suddenly turn into jello on third down over and over and over.... Frustration level 10.
Also, ND stepped off the gas in a big way after half time Were this game remotely competitive our D doesn't show as it did in the second half when ND milked clock two downs every series.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:08 PM ^
Idk why people rip on Brian Kelly. We got out coached on offense and defense. We did not look like a team that returned as many starters as we did. Poor discipline and execution. It starts with the coaching. Very disappointing.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:38 PM ^
Tomorrow the Harbaugh apologists and true believers will be out in full force again, no doubt assisted by a few fake Mod accounts.
The fact remains: If you can't close on elite tackle prospects, you get what we got tonight. No offensive scheme or coaching prowess or quarterback can mitigate a consistently collapsing pocket with a 3 or 4 man rush.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:00 AM ^
Penn State, with Moorhead, had an elite offense, despite having poor offensive line play. It's like some people do not want to admit that our passing coordinator has anything to do with our passing game. If that is the case, why are we paying him $1MM/year? For his recruiting prowess? Is he the grandson of a Michigan legend?
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:15 AM ^
It has zero to do with elite tackle prospects. It has to do with not bringing in good tackle prospects. Plenty of good teams have 3 star tackles playing a hell of a lot better than ours
September 1st, 2018 at 11:08 PM ^
Fire Jim. Im done
September 1st, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^
Hey you know what you shouldn't be doing down by 14 with less than 4 minutes left?
Huddling.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:28 PM ^
What about reading a tome strapped to your wrist?
September 1st, 2018 at 11:35 PM ^
Fuck. Even Toby is right!!
September 1st, 2018 at 11:45 PM ^
SHUT THE FUCK UP, TOBY!
September 1st, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^
My HS team had no talent...but we could manage a clock....
September 1st, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^
My HS team had no talent...but we could manage a clock....
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:58 AM ^
The rarely sighted “both posts in a double post are well liked”.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^
How is there not someone who can play left tackle on this team.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:10 PM ^
Michigan is 9-9 in its past 18 games. Not good enough. There's absolutely no defending another year of terrible OL play.
September 1st, 2018 at 11:10 PM ^
Come to Michigan where 5 stars play like 2 stars.
Harbaugh is the problem