OT: Goodell has discussed eliminating kickoffs in the NFL
Roger Goodell recently discussed the possibility of eliminating kickoffs with the head of the NFL's competition committee. Even more interestingly, they talked about Greg Schiano's suggestion that a team that scores should have, after its extra point try, essentially a 4th and 15 at their own 30 yard line, from which they can either punt or try to win another possession by getting the 15 yards.
I like Schiano's idea because it would add to the excitement of the game by allowing for more comebacks. I also think that organized football faces an enormous threat to its existence as we know it because of the research that is coming out about concussions, so something has to be done, and it might as well be a fun something. What do you say?
EDIT: Further info: There were 270 reported concussions in the NFL in 2010, 35 of which were on kickoffs. There were 266 reported concussions in the NFL in 2011, 20 of which were on kickoffs. The drop in concussions on kickoffs coincided with the move of the kickoff line from the 30 to the 35, which increased touchbacks.
December 6th, 2012 at 5:12 PM ^
That would probably cut down on a host of health-related issues for players. But yeah, that ship sailed away 30-40 years ago when players started getting huge.
December 6th, 2012 at 4:53 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 4:56 PM ^
- Players Safety.
December 6th, 2012 at 4:57 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 5:20 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 7:23 PM ^
I disagree. Kicking is part of the game (it is football, after all) and should not be downplayed more than it already is.
I do think it'd be cool if there were some requirement that kickers be regular players, though, and not just pure specialists. Like, require them to play at least five snaps in non-kicking situations before they're eligible to attempt a FG.
December 6th, 2012 at 5:24 PM ^
Eliminating kickoffs would remove one of the most exciting parts of the game, and would in no way address the vast majority of where concussions occur. From 2010 to 2011 kickoff concussions did drop from roughly 13% of all concussions to around 7% of all concussions, and that's wonderful. Job well done. While they achieved a good measurable result, it'd be nice if they focused on the other 93% now, instead of drastically changing the game for an almost negligible additional result.
December 6th, 2012 at 5:29 PM ^
I just read about the study at Boston University and the possibility of long term damage, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, being caused by repeditive subconcussion. The studies, so far, seem to show the greatest issue is with Linemen who get hit repeatedly. This didn't cause a concussion but add up. If the problem is many subconcussions caused on every play and many times every practice I am not sure what you can do to eliminate the issue. Less practice and less games or contact free practice like the coach at D2 St. Johns in minnesota ran.
December 6th, 2012 at 5:35 PM ^
Let's all just admit that the endpoint of all this is an NFL 7-on-7 league. Flag football. WHEE...
I already don't give a shit about NFL football. To me, Schiano's idea isn't that outlandish. I'd put it at the 35, and make the team move across midfield to keep possession. Or just make it 4th and 20 from the 30. Most people would punt/faircatch in that situation anyway. It basically turns it into the safety rules with an opportunity for a longshot at keeping the football. That's not all that bad in my book.
Purists gonna be pure, though...
December 6th, 2012 at 5:50 PM ^
The South Park guys should talk to Harry Carson about whether or not the NFL is doing enough regarding concussions. He thinks that it isn't, and I would enjoy watching Matt and Trey debate him on that point.
December 6th, 2012 at 6:11 PM ^
My interpretation was that they thought both the media outrage and the parental worrying were over the top, not the lawsuits from former players and everything.
December 6th, 2012 at 6:28 PM ^
I just saw the little clip.
December 6th, 2012 at 5:42 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 5:43 PM ^
this seems like there would be a HUGE difference in field position.
from my untrained eye, I see punts as much less consistent when compared to kickoffs, they also don't travel nearly as far so this seems like there would possibly be more punt returns than there are kick returns now (since its a touchback like every time now). and these returns would be starting at the 25ish yard line since the average punter kicks like 45+ yds for an average kick i think. plus you factor in an average return of like 4-5yds and you get starting field postion of 25-30 yard line which is pretty good getting an extra 5 yds to start (not much but it matters). It also lessens the impact of those players who specialize in kick returns
December 6th, 2012 at 5:47 PM ^
Most coaches must feel that kickoffs are more dangerous, i.e., that they are more likely to lead to good field position for the other team, because most coaches choose to use their punters on free kicks rather than their place kickers.
December 6th, 2012 at 5:58 PM ^
"...a radical rule change proposed by Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano. Instead of a kickoff, the team that scored would then take the ball on its own 30-yard line in, essentially, a 4th-and-15 situation." - from the article
Interesting. If you run 4th and 15 at your own 30 through the 4th Down Calculator, pretty much regardless of time left or quarter or score difference, you're looking at about 19% success rate based on NFL averages (which is the rationale behind this calculator - I ran about 40 scenarios but kept 4th and 15; expected points don't vary much either). Like others, I don't really enjoy the idea of the kickoff going away, but it would be intriguing to see a team attempt a play at which it was at a distinct statistical disadvantage.
December 6th, 2012 at 6:23 PM ^
The average net NFL punt this year is 41.52 yards this puts the ball on the 29.48, the average kickoff return is the 23.5 this year. If there is a 19% chance of making 4&15 that is worse than the average of onside kicks at 26%. I am not sure of the difference in scoring from the 30 vs the other 30 but if they don't onside now they likely wouldn't "go for it" either. I don't believe this would lead to 100 point games.
December 6th, 2012 at 6:43 PM ^
Maybe counter-act the rule with bringing back the old touch-down. No breaking the plane crap. You have to be knee down with the ball in the endzone.
December 6th, 2012 at 5:51 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 6:16 PM ^
I'm down for "Passoffs" instead as long as the person throwing the ball screams "ULTIMAAAAAAAATE!"
December 6th, 2012 at 6:21 PM ^
Roger Godell is a pussy
December 7th, 2012 at 11:09 AM ^
I love that this is currently rated "Score: 3 Informative".
Also, I've never understood why something most of us have spent so much time seeking out is also used a derogatory label.
December 6th, 2012 at 6:28 PM ^
I'm seeing flag football in the near future.
December 6th, 2012 at 6:56 PM ^
The 1957 NFL Championship between the Lions and the Browns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFQPJtmhEaQ
If you watch enough of this, you'll see a complete absence of guys leading with their heads. There are none of the kill shots we're accustomed to seeing many times per game, even in college. With few exceptions (such as Jim Brown) all these guys were slower, smaller, and certainly not as powerfully built as your average player is today. Coach Schiano's (our version) suggestion of a weight limit is actually a good one, if your goal is to reduce injuries.
December 6th, 2012 at 7:03 PM ^
the nfl just have players sign a waiver that they understand it's a dangerous sport with risks of serious injury and they'll hold the nfl harmless for injuries suffered during their career or injuries after their career that resulted from playing in the nfl?
December 6th, 2012 at 7:37 PM ^
This. I'm glad someone else has this thought to. All that has to be done is require the players to sign a permission slip. Many of them are well aware of the risks, they just choose to play anyway because that is the best way for them to provide for their families.
December 6th, 2012 at 8:00 PM ^
Every sport does. Waivers are meaningless in situations involving gross negligence or failure to release information or failure to take reasonable steps to avoid unnecessary injury. The rub is: where is the line for "negligence?" What are "reasonable and necessary" steps? It's not as simple as "have them sign a waiver." You can't waive your right to be "reasonably" protected from harm.
December 6th, 2012 at 7:08 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 7:25 PM ^
I would like to see leather helmets with no facemasks, and soft pads only. If players can't use helmets and shoulder pads as weapons, and they can no longer circumvent nature's most effective warning, pain, there won't be nearly as many injuries, especially concussions.
December 6th, 2012 at 7:35 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 7:44 PM ^
NFL players are paid multiple millions of dollars to play a so-called gladiator sport. It's not like anyone is forcing these guys to play the game. At the salaries being paid to them from the combined treasure of fans, sponsors and media outlets, we should expect them to carry swords, clubs, axes, flails, maces and mauls onto the field like the warriors in the Colosseum.
December 6th, 2012 at 7:52 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 9:53 PM ^
In 1905, Teddy Roosevelt threatened to outlaw football after 19 college players died that season. The NCAA was formed in 1906, and instituted rules changes the brought about the forward pass, 7 men on the line, limited pre-snap motion, and made a first down ten yards instead of five.
At the end of the day, while I loved playing on the kickoff team, and it is the most exciting play in the game, I wouldn't mind getting rid of it to make everyone safer and preserve the game I love.
December 6th, 2012 at 10:06 PM ^
How about limiting player weight to - pick a number - 250 lbs? That would reduce the likelihood of injury. As a trade-off, permit the bacon-wrapping and live predators as noted above.
December 6th, 2012 at 7:40 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 7:43 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 8:17 PM ^
Allow the kickoff return team to use the forward pass. That should stop the whole kickoff team from running full throttle downfield at the guy who catches the kick. And the kickoff may become the most entertaining play.
December 6th, 2012 at 9:38 PM ^
That's an awesome idea! Would they be allowed to do it from anywhere on the field, from the point of the catch, from some predetermined position (20 yd line)?
I would LOVE this. I don't think Schiano's idea is bad - he first came up with it after Eric LeGrand's injury, I believe. But yours would a) make kickoffs safer, and b) make the most exciting play in football even more exciting.
Just think - do you want a QB catching the kicks? How do you set up plays on a kickoff? What strategy does a defense use to defend this? Is it possible to set up a "kickoff screen?"
December 6th, 2012 at 10:05 PM ^
Hmmm, probably a RB/KR to catch, toss it to the QB (not necessarily a starter, could be a running QB), and block/be an outlet. A couple TEs or WRs around midfield on either side of the field behind some blockers. Another receiver up the middle. Maybe have two concentrated sets of blockers, and one receiver with one blocker. If the one guy is Calvin Johnson, does the coverage team send an extra guy that way and be outnumbered somewhere else?
I guess the ball would be always live until down or out of bounds, unless an incomplete results in the ball being spotted at the point of the throw. If always live, what if the kicking team gets the ball and is also allowed to pass forward? Hilarity ensues.
December 6th, 2012 at 8:58 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 9:05 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 9:15 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 9:33 PM ^
Along with an earlier poster saying "football is turning into flag 7 on 7." Would you watch the NFL if it turned into 8 man football? Wide open, lots of eligibility, a lot more open field tackling. Still football, but a very different version than the 11 man version we've known and love. Not sure if it'd be any safer (I don't think your 8-man kickoffs would be) and I'm also not sure whether I'd like it - but I feel like a lot of casual football fans would. And the lack of down linemen and need to open field tackle could make it safer too.
December 6th, 2012 at 9:23 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 10:22 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 10:55 PM ^
December 6th, 2012 at 10:57 PM ^
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December 6th, 2012 at 11:01 PM ^
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