Fitz "might" be available against Bama
According to Joe Schad's Twitter feed.
@schadjoe RB Fitz Toussaint is not necessarily going to be suspended for all or some of Bama season-opener; going through discipline now
Personally, I don't know how I feel about this. Granted, I'd love for him to be available, but if he is prosecuted for a DUI, I feel he should miss adequate game time. We hold ourselves to higher standards than MSU and the Chris Rucker-gate or ND and the Michael Floyd situation.
Thoughts? Besides possible euphoria imagining Fitz ready to go against Bama?
Edit: My apologies to Mr. Rucker.
Kids drive drunk all the timeDoesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. And definitely doesn't mean they should get to play against Alabama
Sheesh relax everyone, I was obviously just trolling..
Hoke has been a good coach, and is a good coach. I trust his judgement. My personal feeling is that this kind of stuff has gone on forever. The punishment for a first offense is often quite different than that for repeated offenses. If this is the first time, well, I think Fitz could work to get out of the doghouse between now and opening day.
Honestly, doesn't every parent go through this? The punishment is partially determined by how the child responds to the discipline administered after the crime. If Fitz jumps through all the hoops, shows proper remorse, etc., etc., I'd be fine with him playing in the Alabama game, even if he doesn't start the game.
I do wish the Michigan blogosphere would sometimes get off their high horse, as regards MSU, ND, Ohio, NC, USC, etc., etc., etc. Some of the "Leaders and Best" stuff gets old.
I agrizzle foshizzle
reported it was .12
I don't get how people want to compare Fitz on his first offense to the Floyd at ND and Rucker as MSU situations. They were repeat offenders, and those guys still missed zero game time.
Based on how Hoke has disciplined kids in his short time here I feel pretty comfortable trusting him to make the right decision. If the kid is a knucklehead who struggles with rules constantly..his punishment will be more severe then a kid who is going into his 4th year and just now had his 1st slip up.
I know I know a DUI is a serious thing... to think that a 22 year old star football player on summer vacation would be dumb enough to drink and get behind the wheel...that just never happens.
Hey, come on now. I'm sure they gave Floyd a real stern talking too.
I would love to watch Fitz run all over bama but never at the expense of our integrity. I for one believe in our coach to do the right thing and if Fitz is guilty then we should do our best to win without him those first couple games. If i'm not mistaken aren't you the one awhile back that flipped out because someone had a thread of girls in bikini's on here and your wife grounded you or something?I'd much rather my kid see some scantily clad women than drive a little drunk. Maybe thats just me though.
Signed,
A Walmart Wolverine
Edit- Damn this was in response to StephenRKass but I'm a slo typer apparently..... Ohh well
I agree with most all you say. I don't want Fitz to play if it means we've lost integrity. In particular, Hoke probably has some internal rules and guidelines. If, for instance, he told the players, "if you drink and drive, you will sit at least the following game," well, then Fitz shouldn't play against Alabama. But I don't know what the internal rules Hoke has might be. From my perspective, Hoke and his staff have the right to sit down and determine how they discipline players. I do believe that Hoke largely needs to follow through, and that they need to consistently and fairly apply the rules to all the players, not just to some.
I will say, each situation is different. There's a kid down the block, 8 years old, who was suspended from school for two months (mid-April through the end of the year) because he had an air soft gun in his back pack for show and tell. Zero tolerance, you know. A couple years back, we got a phone call from my daughter's high school about drugs because she had ibuprofen for headaches. Zero tolerance, you know. I have little to nothing to do with the legal system, but I think most cops and judges will tell you that laws having penalties where no judicial discretion can be applied are usually bad laws.
As regards cheesecake and dui's, well duh, of course a dui is much more important than a few skeezy pics of beautiful women. And my main complaint wasn't about boobs in general, but gratuitous boobs posted at mgoblog, limiting my office use of mgoblog. Umm, it isn't like people don't know where to go on the Internet if they want boobs and more. Even at that, I'm getting tired of gratuitous posting of large Kate Upton cat daddy gifs.
No one knows the details of Fitz's DUI. Technically you can be given a DUI with a BAC of .01 so lets not jump the gun and say he should be out three weeks no matter what. Hoke's got good judgement and he knows what happened better than any of us. He wont let players play who dont deserve to play.
I did not know that. Do cops ever do this? If it is something under, say, 0.05 BAC, I would be willing to advocate lenient punishment considering he is over 21 and all.
Edit: Upon further examination, Fitz blew a .12. I don't think playing him vs 'Bama sets a good precedent or sends a good message about the program.
Except that he is over 21, so he must of had a BAC of .08 or above to get charged.
The .08 benchmark is not a minimum requirement for guilt, it is a benchmark at which there is a presumption of guilt/impairment. You can get pulled over, blow a .01, and as long as the jury/judge believe the driver was impaired you can still be convicted of DUI.
That would never hold up in court, how else could one enjoy a glass of wine with dinner and drive home? You could receive a lesser charge for a BAC under .08, but not a DUI/OWI.
Also, the state's governmental site for substance abuse and driving disagrees.
http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1627_8665-24488--,00.html
If these guys play against Alabama, I don't think there will be enough crow to go around.
It's not an image of anything that we're trying to preserve; it's being a program that does things the right way in an atmosphere full of corruption in college athletics.
I hope he doesn't play. Takes away Hoke's image of being strict.
Since when does Hoke has an image of being strict? At some point we're going to have to accept it: Michigan is not morally better than any other major program.
Hell, media was joking about setting the over/under of time missed by Toussaint at one series.
I've lost any expectation that Michigan "doesn't tolerate" this kind of thing. Because we do. It's sad, I hate it, but I'm done fighting it and defending our program. If we were as good as we like to think we are, Toussaint would already be off the team. That's the image we think we have and it definitely isn't a true one.
I would think that the way Hoke handled Stonum's issues suggests he takes discipline pretty seriously.
I would think that the way Hoke handled Stonum's issues suggests he takes discipline pretty seriously.
Since when does Hoke not have an image of being strict? Can you actually point to anything he's done that makes you think he'll take issues of this magnitude lightly?
Also, you seem to equate this to morality, but I just see as doing what's best for the players and the program in the long run. Assuming Toussaint and Clark did what it seems they did, I think Hoke would be short-sighted to play them against Alabama.
Finally, I don't see a lot of people advocating kicking Toussaint off the team. Maybe that's "as good" as you'd like to think Michigan is, but be careful when speaking for the entire fan base. I know that's not the image I have of the program, but maybe that's just because I know kids who have been ticketed for DUI (an admittedly reckless and dangerous act) and were able to turn themselves around.
Since when does Hoke not have an image of being strict?
I don't think he has either way. He's done nothing that has made me think he's an extraordinary disciplinarian, nor has he done anything that has made me think that he's leinent. I think the jury is still out.
I think it was convenient that Stonum's year-long punishment coincided with an available redshirt and would have saved him until a year we really needed a receiver. It was convenient - I'm not saying that's why Hoke went with that punishment. I can't be in his head.
And, no, I don't think Fitz should be kicked off the team - but many fans like to brag about how we are "above" certain things. My point was that if we truly were above these things, then Fitz would have already been kicked off.
Right now I think it's hard to say we are any better than any other major program. I don't think we have the right to make fun of MSU or anyone else for anything right now - that's really my point. HOWEVA, if Hoke comes out strong and makes some kind of statement, then maybe we can reclaim our commitment to certain priorities. But, I expect Fitz to play, which doesn't really help that cause.
I think it's clear from most of the responses in this thread that Hoke is seen as strict on rule-breakers. You might argue that he hasn't done enough to deserve that reputation, but based on what we've seen I don't have a reason to doubt it.
Stonum's punishment certainly could have benefited the team this year if he hadn't messed up again, but don't forget the environment at the time. Hoke was going into his first year as a coach of a major program and had many fans questioning his ability to lead Michigan. It's unlikely that he anticipated the team would have such a good year. At the time I'm sure he was much more focused on having a successful initial campaign then stockpiling talent for 2012.
We still seem to disagree about kicking Toussaint off the team. My point is that I don't think dismissing him after his first offense is what people here are talking about when they say Michigan's staff isn't as lenient as other staffs. That's the most severe action Hoke could take against him and there is certainly some middle ground between that and what other schools have done. We'll have to wait and see what Hoke does with Toussaint and Clark, but I still think there are valid reasons to contrast Hoke's actions in his first year with those of some of the coaches of rival schools.
Unless the coaches feel like Rawls is ready to beat Bama, Fitz needs to play. A DUI is not good, but it's not the worst thing in the world and with it being a first time offense I think making Fitz run to death is plenty punishment.
A DUI is not good, but it's not the worst thing in the world
Tell that to the Mealer family
Wasn't the dude who caused the accident just old and blew a stop sign?
I don't think alchohol played a role in the Mealer crash, but even if it did I would tell them that. Driving drunk is taking somewhat of a risk but so is texting, eating, driving tired, ect. I think driving drunk is looked on as worse than it really is.
You're putting someone else's life in danger.
You are right about one thing, though; drunk driving gets all the press while fatigued driving, which can be just as dangerous, gets no mention. But that doesn't mean that drunk driving is any less terrible, it just means that fatigued/distracted driving is more terrible than we usually give it credit for.
I think this is just bull plop from Joe Schad. I doubt that the coaching staff would strengthen the weed policy then turn around and play a guy right after a DUI. Is there any precedent with this staff?
Granted, what he says is true, as Fitz is suspended indefinitely. It's just misleading. It implies that Hoke is considering playing him when that may or may not be true.
Fitz will be suiting up in Game 1 Vs Bama and will be running by SEC defenders all night. Good players get a pass thats how it goes. Im upset he got in trouble but would be even more upset if he wasnt playing September 1st.
Go Blue!
Stonum was pretty good too
huh?
Would you really be "more upset" if the best players "get a pass"? It would bother you that people are treated unfairly? Or that Hoke doesn't take discipline seriously?
Obviously, we can hope that, as with other recent charges, there's something that we don't know about the charges which somehow makes them incorrect or ridiculous. But a DUI is deadly serious--if what it sounds like happened actually happened, I'd be very disappointed in my coach and my team if there weren't serious penalties--no matter what other punishment there is over the summer, that should include missing a couple of games at the start of the year.
should he be also forced to sit out a few weeks of class? Ater all its a privilege to attend the University. Clearly its serious but does one DUI does not a felon make.
Nonanalogous situations are nonanalogous.
I'm wanting to wait and see how this all plays out before i get to crazy about it. I have faith that even without Fitz , the other runningbacks can pick up the slack ( Rawls).
If its possible for Fitzgerald to return after preseason sanctions than I'm all for it and am sure Hoke is too.
Having him back for Bama is huge. But Brady can't give inches or he may risk letting these players run away with miles. The last thing we need is more repeat offenders.
Frank Clark's situation is bad, but what type of message would Hoke be sending to his guys if they thought he took drunk driving, a crime that puts both the offender and others at risk, lightly? To me it's just as punishable as theft. Even if most of us believe getting our MacBook Air stolen is a crime punishable by death.
Anyway, I'm confident he knows how to make the best decisions when it comes to disciplining the guys on his roster. Just let the law run its course and go from there.
has that happened yet?
If Hoke asks, "did you do this," and Fitz says "yes, sir, I did," then that's plenty. Hoke doesn't need the imprimatur of a court.
Congrtulations to all of you.
When we have to put our money where our mouth is, we are standing by what's right even though it hurts. It's not all just empty talk.
There really is a Michigan difference.
I would think the Michigan Difference would include waiting for facts.
He blew a .12. What other facts are necessary?
As I think I posted else where, the testing process produces multiple simutanious samples. Half of the samples are made available to the defense for confirmation testing in a lab. A small percentage of the tests are invalidated for a number of reasons, inculding human error on the part of the test administrator. In the vast majority of cases, the result from the lab will differ slightly +-.01 is typical.
Interesting... Wasn't aware of that.
However, unless something extremely unlikely turns up, it's hard to see anyway Fitz wasn't driving under the influence.
Well, when the implicit standard here is a comparison to Bucknuts and the RCMB, I would hope we look pretty good.
You might want to be careful where you put your money, apparently 45% of dollar bills have been in a strippers g-string.
A couple of things...
- Let the legal system play out. I believe Fitz had a 0.12 BAC. If his record is clean that'll get reduced down to an impaired driving - NOT the same as his current charge. This would translate into a more lenient sentence and long-term implications.
- Probably most importantly, a drinking problem should be assessed. If Fitz has a legitimate problem with alcohol, this needs to be addressed immediately. Or, if he had a night out with his buddies and made a stupid decision, this should also be addressed under its own consideration. But know that those are 2 very different reasons with very different short and long-term implications.
- Lastly, I GUARANTEE that whatever punishment the a2 legal system gives Fitz, the punishment that Hoke delivers will be far more severe. If he has a clean record, he'll get a slap on the wrist. But that won't mean that Hoke won't punish him severely. Hoke can decide to play Fitz for 'Bama but still make him run everyday at 6, carry the bags, check grades, etc.
I guess, what I'm getting at is that Fitz made a big mistake but this will hopefully be a learning experience. A lot of people have gotten DUIs, then recognized a problem and straightened up their act (not all of course) and this can definitely turn into a positive. I don't know if he should or shouldn't play against 'Bama but before we rush to judgement w/o having any facts about that night or his personal history, we really can't fairly assess what's going on.