Rumor: ND to move all non-football sports to Big XII.
From Orangebloods.
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1283801
Money Shot.
If Notre Dame does make such a move, it is being proposed that the Irish would remain independent in football but begin playing up to six football games against Big 12 competition.
Orangebloods.com has reported that Texas would love to replace Texas A&M on Thanksgiving with Notre Dame, if possible. That still may be a bit of a longshot.
One high-ranking official at a Big 12 school holds out the hope that if Notre Dame moves its non-football sports into the Big 12 it would be a "segue to full conference membership in a year or two - about the time the first tier TV rights (held by ABC/ESPN) are negotiated."
This could be UM's out from playing ND so they can schedule someone non-conference variety(SEC). G'Ape approves this due to UT's/ND's ego's and eventual "dick measuring contest between the two" and Bo's famous quote.
ND's Schedule?
Keep: Purdue, USC, MSU, Army, Navy, Pitt/Stanford.
New: Texas and five Big XII (WVU?).
October 26th, 2011 at 10:41 AM ^
When it comes to TV rights, revenue, etc, the ACC has already said "not only no but hell no" on the subject of allowing unequal revenue. I think the ACC would love to get Notre Dame but they will not allow a nonfootball arrangement. No special third-tier rights or flexible scheduling or any of that. Join for all sports and participate evenly in the revenue splits - in other words, be on an equal footing with the rest of the members - or GTFO.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^
Would someone please explain to a moron what "third-tier" rights are?
October 26th, 2011 at 1:13 PM ^
- ABC/ NBC/ CBS
- ESPN/ ESPN2/ Versus
- BTN/ LHN/ SECN
October 26th, 2011 at 1:44 PM ^
Not quite. First-tier rights are the rights to broadcast nationally. Second-tier rights are the rights to broadcast regionally after the national networks get their pick. BTN would be second-tier. Raycom has the ACC's second-tier rights. Third-tier rights are what's left for the school after the first and second tier have their pick. LHN is third-tier because it would broadcast only those Texas games that weren't picked up by whatever the Big 12 is under contract to. Another example: I forked over about $30 to watch online broadcasts of UVA spring sports (mostly baseball, a little bit of lacrosse that ESPN didn't pick up.) That's third-tier.
October 26th, 2011 at 9:26 AM ^
This feels like a massive round peg trying to accomodate a whiny, entitled square peg. ND football has not been nationally relevant for years, and now they are sacrificing the rest of their athletics for the off-chance that they can regain some cache.
October 26th, 2011 at 9:29 AM ^
BIg 12 coming back with vengance
October 26th, 2011 at 9:35 AM ^
They're negotiating from a position of weakness, being forced to reach out to SEC reject and geographical anomaly West Virginia and now (allegedly) this -- letting ND dictate all the terms including "playing six games but still remaining independent"?!??! WTF? Just because the Big XII is getting some teams back, they're still pretty weak. If they maintain North and South divisions, look who Oklahoma, OSU, or Texas gets to play in the title game: the division champ amongst WVU, Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, and then potentially Cincinnati and Louisville. Wow. Looking forward to that Texas-Louisville clash of titans in the Jerrydome already.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:02 AM ^
Conference moves are all about improving what you have.
The Big Ten and the ACC, which are both comparatively strong, won’t accept Notre Dame, unless it’s for all sports, and with all schools having the same revenue-sharing agreement. If the Big XII adopts the same position, then there is no way they are getting the Irish, since the Big Ten and the ACC are better geographic, academic, and cultural fits.
To get Notre Dame, the Big XII has to offer something the others do not. Although the Big XII is in a position of comparative weakness, any league that has Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame, is nothing to sneeze at, even if the Irish don’t join fully in football. And it’s not as if the Irish would be dictating all the terms: agreeing to pay six Big XII teams a year would be a concession on Notre Dame’s part. (Trust me: the Irish aren’t dying to play road games in Ames, Iowa, and Manhattan, Kansas.)
By the way, the Big XII has made it pretty clear that they are not splitting back up into divisions anytime soon. Texas and Oklahoma prefer a pure round-robin and a champion determined by record. They never liked the championship game, which reduced the league title to a one-game season in which a weak interloper could stage an upset, and back its way into the BCS. Without a championship game, those two schools would probably win the league around 70 or 80 percent of the time
But if they ever did split into divisions again, clearly Texas and Oklahoma could no longer be in the same division.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:54 AM ^
Great post.
If this does move beyond the "Deloss Dodds floats a rumor through Orangebloods" stage, the sticky points will be how many Big XII games (I'll bet ND targets 4, b/c their schedule gets pretty tight with 6 + Navy, USC, Stanford, MSU and Purdue, our series is gone if this happens in most any way) and determining how and where those games would be scheduled.
ND's going to be fine going to Austin and Norman, but they're not going to want to play away games almost anywhere else in the Big XII. They're going to ask for them as home games or neutral site games (like the Maryland in DC game this year). If ND is interested, I'll bet they begin negotiating with 4 games that feature regular home and homes against UT and OU, combined with a home game/neutral site pair against two other teams that rotate through the conference on a bi-annual basis. Of course, that sets up a killer schedule, considering they will keep the USC game, and likely Stanford as well so they have one game in California annually.
Now who knows if the Big XII goes for that, but it would certainly test the solidarity of a league that has never been particularly close knit.
In any case, the ND - UM game is almost certainly out the window in any scenario where ND affiliates with the Big XII. (They'd try to keep Purdue and probably MSU).
October 26th, 2011 at 10:34 AM ^
"any league that has Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame". It's clearly Texas, Oklahoma, and someone else. If they get 10 teams, this is essentially the Big 10, pre Nebraska, when it was Michigan, OSU, and 1 random team that were good.
I could see a 10-11 team Big 12, with Texas, Oklahoma, and everyone else, but they lose a championship game, and aside from UT, OK, and OKST, everyone else will get crappy money.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:34 AM ^
In the last 11 years, Texas and OU have won 9 title games as well as the last 7 in a row. CU in 2001 and KState in 2003 are the other winners.
October 26th, 2011 at 9:46 AM ^
ND is scared of the big ten's hairy football chest. They need to stay above .500 or NBC will srop them.
/unsubstantiated thoughts and rant
October 26th, 2011 at 5:25 PM ^
nd is ramping up the scheduling difficulty the next couple years: http://www.maplenet.net/~trowbridge/NDSched.htm
i don't think the fear of losing is the major issue. maybe it should be, but series with miami, oklahoma and texas are getting added on top of usc/michigan...
October 26th, 2011 at 10:02 AM ^
Texas and Notre Dame deserve each other.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:09 AM ^
As a resident of the south, I would love to see Michigan have some home/home games with some teams in the SEC, especially UT or Georgia (closest drives for me) but I wouldn't be super picky if this were to come to fruition.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:19 AM ^
even UVA, VA Tech, or Clemson would work for me.
My view - we do home and aways with ND now - why not spread out the ND home and aways to every other year, and do a rotating home and away with other BCS conference schools in the alternate years? The number of home games are the same, and the variety and national reach increases.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:48 AM ^
They are struggling to remain (become?) a relevant program nationally. Even after wandering the desert for 3 years we are still relevant. Home/Home with 2nd tier SEC or top tier ACC schools helps us recruit the southeast and is still a big game.
Playing ND nets us nothing that Indiana and Purdue games don't also bring.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:15 PM ^
What do you mean by relevance? Notre Dame still attracts top recruits and hot coaches (Brian Kelly might be an asshole, but he had a pretty good resume when they got him). Notre Dame is farther removed from being a national power than Michigan is, but how are they any more or less relevant than we are? They actually won their bowl game last year, which is a lot better than you can say for Michigan. I think both programs attract the talent to be nationally relevant, but Notre Dame has just been squandering it away for longer.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:11 AM ^
Seriously every conference needs to tell ND to go shove it and quit scheduling them. I am getting sick of the same ol' song and dance with them "We want this cry cry cry.......but you cant have football".
October 26th, 2011 at 10:34 AM ^
EDIT: derp
October 26th, 2011 at 10:34 AM ^
They can meander around from one sad-assed conference to another refusing to participate in football for as long as the pathetic Big East's and Big XII's of the world will have them. You would think a conference would have more self respect than to say, hey, OK, we'll take you in all the sports except the big money maker because you want to hoard your cash but you need a place to crash with all your other sports. Screw ND. Tell them to play an all-independent schedule all the time if they want to be independent. The Big Ten teams ought to drop them as a regularly scheduled opponent and let them scramble for decent games and see how they like it.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:46 AM ^
Its orangebloods, the best idea is just to ignore it and move on.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:55 AM ^
Orangebloods is useful as the place that UT's AD uses to float trial balloons.
October 26th, 2011 at 5:29 PM ^
This story does not mean ND is seriously thinking about moving its non-football sports to the B12. It simply means that the the B12 (and UT specifically) is trying to convince ND to move its non-football sports to the B12. There's a big difference.
October 26th, 2011 at 10:56 AM ^
Admitting ND for all sports except football is like "winning" a date with Brooklyn Decker but with a bag over her head and no chance at an "afterwards:" why bother.
ND has reaped the benefits of being in a conference without actually having to commit for far too long. They cherry-pick the Big Ten and Big East. Incomprehensibly, the conferences are grateful for this.
The Big East has been kissing their ring since 1995. ND has gotten a conference to play all of their irrelevant sports in, while the Big East has gotten basically nothing in return.
ND has played Michigan, Sparty, and Purdue for years, thus enjoying the computer benefits of B1G opponents, but without the grind of a full B1G schedule. I'm glad that they have basically sucked since 1988 or whenever their last NC was, but they have still gotten away with taking whatever they want and giving nothing back.
It's time for every conference and every BCS team in the country to demand quid pro quo from Notre Dame. To quote an old book concerning personal and professional ethics: "win-win or no deal."
October 26th, 2011 at 4:54 PM ^
nd brings money. its that simple. for purdue and michigan state, for example, the nd game is one of their biggest games of the year. they sell more tickets, t-shirts, hot dogs, etc. they get to have one more game on national tv. the idea that the b1g teams will boyott nd seems pretty far-fetched to me. i'm guessing that loyalty to dollars trumps loyalty to conference.
it'll continue this way until nd continues to suck for long enough that the fanbase dwindles and an nd game isn't an atm visit for the lower tier b1g teams.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:05 AM ^
The rumor isn't even that this has occurred or is occurring, just that it is something that is being discussed. Note the use of words "if" and "considering".
If true, this is really odd. Notre Dame in the Big XII would be the greatest example of square peg, round hole ever. Can you imagine Notre Dame fans sitting side-by-side with Oklahoma yokels at a basketball game? At the very least, I'd imagine they could discuss their shared love of FREEKBASS.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^
Us, State can easily drop ND.
Purdue may want to consider it.
The only crappy thing about us dropping ND would be losing the spleen, delicious tears of the Irish nation after yet another 4th quarter loss to Michigan.
But Bo's quote resonates louder than ever re; ND.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^
There is no question that Purdue would be worse off without Notre Dame. It is THE major game on their schedule, It’s the only game they play, that is guaranteed to be telecast either on NBC or a major cable network. There is no other comparable school that would agree to schedule them home-and-home annually. For recruits who consider Purdue, knowing they’ll play ND every year is a significant draw.
Michigan, of course, could easily replace Notre Dame with an equally attractive home-and-home opponent. It’s worth noting, though, that the programs with as much cachet as the Irish, are the ones Michigan would have more trouble beating. I mean, if Oklahoma or Alabama had replaced Notre Dame on the schedule the last two years, do you think Michigan would have won two in a row?
One advantage of playing Notre Dame is that the media and the pollsters give you as much credit as if you had beaten a top-10 team, even though the Irish seldom play top-10 football any more.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
I come from a family where we HATE Notre Dame. My grandfather was going to play footbally for Michigan (he was three time all county and two time all state as a 155 lb linebacker) from a little town called Grant, MI. But, he went to fight in the war instead, and when he came back, he couldn't go to college because he had to help save the family farm. He loves the state of Michigan - and though he despises MSU, he took it personally the way that ND fans and coaches would some times treat MSU. He forbid anyone in our family from even watching Rudy, because he says it's ND propaganda ... it is, you know. And, i won't let my kids watch it either.
All the more reason to play them! Keep it alive ... not because of the two schools of tradition, but because ND is evil. On top of that, their Coach is not a good man. We all see the colors he turns because of his rage. But, his press conferences are loaded with comments that are outright cruel - to his own players. I had pity for Holtz and laughed at Weis. I felt sorry for Willingham getting jobbed. But, I love the fact that Kelly's the coach ... so much more of a team to hate.
I love to hate the fact that they will do anything other than join the B1G. It's as though, they're going out of their way to rub the B1G's nose in it. Keep it up ND. The entire world knows that the rational thing for ND to do is join the B1G. It even means more money for ND to do so - and as the selfish font of evil that ND, we would all think they would jump at the opportunity. Yet, they live to spite the country. They get joy out of it.
I want ND to join the B1G, because I like sensible things ... I like things that are rational. But, I have to confess that I sort of like this more, because it further upholds another reason to hate ND more. Go ahead, join the Big XII.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:30 AM ^
it would be good to have them in the fold and pound them--and watch everyone else pound them--annually. A move to the Big 12 looks like serious avoidance to me; everyone knows what they're running from, their own mediocrity.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:10 PM ^
I'm all for hating rivals... on the field. I hope we play the Irish every year and grind them into dust. Hating them to the point that we don't want to play them in order to damage their program is ridiculous and defeats the purpose of a sports rivalry.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:52 AM ^
I grew up in a Notre Dame household -- my parents, aunts/uncles, and cousins were ALL Domers or Smick-Chicks. I didn't root for UM until my snr yr in HS when I accepted the UM offer. (Officially, the day I changed from ND to UM fan was the NIT championship game in 1984, when coincidentally UM played ND. Tim McCormick, Roy Tarpley and "The Judge" et al. beat ND by 20, so I took it as a good sign that I made the right choice.)
Anyway, I'm not a ND hater. I don't root for them, but I don't hate on them. But I can say, if they ditch the B1G for Big XII? Then FRAK THEM. SEE YA. That is them giving both fingers to our conference, and for that, there is only one proper response.
Don't schedule them in any sport. Hockey included. Ever. Again. Period.
(Oddly I don't have that reaction of ND went to the ACC. They are more of a fit with the ACC, academically, than the B1G. Plus BC is there, which is already a huge rivalry -- as in, everyone at BC hates ND, and its Catholics/Jesuits v. Catholics/Non-jesuits. I have 2 siblings who went to BC, so, I know of what I speak of. But the Big XII? There is no academic consideration there, that's only about football and sports.)
October 26th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^
Edit: Whoops, didn't reply. Neg this away...
October 26th, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
So much for ND's supposedly high academic standards. With the exception of UT, the Big 12 is filled with schools the B10 would never allow into the league.
October 26th, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^
from nd's perspective, a conference is primarily a way to schedule games. there isn't a concept of loyalty to a conference or conference identity - nd conceives of itself as an independent. nd certainly didn't change its non-sporting identify when it joined the big east. i dont' think switching non-football sports to the big 12 will have much effect.
nd is going to have as much in common with the big 12 as it does with the big east - not much. but, i don't know how that qualifies as a sell out of nd's academic standards.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:48 PM ^
and I would like for nothing more then to see us respond in kind (if they did join the Big 12) by not scheduling them. It would have to be done by the B1G as a whole though because if we thumbed our nose at them and they replaced us on their schedule with another B1G team (like Ohio State), then ostensibly we would be the losers. So yeah, solidarity. Although I don't think anyone cares about the ND/Purdue game, so have at it.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:57 PM ^
opportunities to join the Big Ten and they declined. Screw them.
October 26th, 2011 at 2:13 PM ^
hasn't orangebloods been the site that's leaking incorrect information left and right as long as it favors texas?
October 26th, 2011 at 5:13 PM ^
Is this ND not joining a conference (football) by joining a conference (everything else)?
Why, it's so stupid it's ..... stupid.
October 26th, 2011 at 5:34 PM ^
Why would ND keep MSU, Navy, Army, and Pitt on their schedule but not Michigan?
October 26th, 2011 at 5:47 PM ^
I hate — no — LOATHE where this is going. Texas A&M to the SEC was OK. TCU to the Big XII makes sense. Pitt and Syracuse fit in the ACC. But now ... talk about yakety sax. West Virginia to the Big XII? Missouri to the SEC? Boise State to the Big East? Notre Dame to the Big XII but NOT in football?
I've read that WVU to the Big XII is on hold because B12 is waiting for a decision from Missouri. I wonder ... if you think outside the box about a newfangled Big XII North that has Mizzou, Kansas, Notre Dame and Louisville (plus KSU, ISU, probably Cincinnati), factoring basketball as well, that's compelling.
If I were running some sort of "Conference Alignment Predictor" like some of these BCS and March Madness Bracketology studies, I'm beginning to see West Virginia (if B12 backs out) and UConn (no ACC) getting kinda screwed. Rutgers also gets screwed, but they don't seem to care.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:25 PM ^
WVU to Big XII is on hold because Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is lobbying his former Senate colleague, David Boren, who's now the president of OU for Louisville to be included rather than WVU. And to make things more interesting, Jay Rockefeller, D-WV, chairs the committee that claims oversight over the NCAA.
October 26th, 2011 at 6:44 PM ^
would love to get ND off the regular schedule - getting way too annoying - and repetitive