The Wrong Reasons
I already welcome the onslaught of "you're an apologist", "stop defending him", "you're an idiot", etc. But after reading the comments here, including a number of scalding-hot takes, I wanted to put forth my only (tempered) counter-point to the Morris-Hoke situation.
First off, Shane Morris shouldn't have been out there for the play that led to this whole situation. Morris was barely putting pressure on his ankle and was clearly in pain; given the score and the situation he should have been pulled a series before, given a pat on the back and some ice on his leg, and parked on the sideline. He wasn't effective and getting further destroyed by Gophers wasn't going to be a useful learning experience for the young signal-caller. That decision is on Hoke, and he should be rightfully vilified.
After that hit, and this is absolutely my take and in no way based on scientific or inside information, it looked like Morris was limping around on his bad leg and that he was clearly feeling pain from the hit, if not concussed. Personally I never considered a concussion until the announcers started in on it, and even then I guess I was so accustomed to Gardner getting up from those types of hits for years that I thought they were overreacting. In my estimation, Morris struggling to keep his feet was not because he was "out" on them but because he couldn't put much weight on his leg and feeling the effects of that shot he just took.
But it didn't matter what I knew; what mattered was what the coach staff on that sideline thought was Morris's condition and his abilities to continue playing, and that's something we'll never know. I hated Hoke saying that Morris could have subbed himself out if he was injured because (a) players are taught from an early age to never give up, always give their best and not let the team down, and it is on the coaches to protect players from themselves in these circumstances, and (b) it betrays the fact that Hoke probably couldn't/didn't see Morris clearly from the far sideline and had no idea his overall physical shape. That's a failure of communication by someone on the staff, and that is unacceptable.
(Lost in this is the fact that the refs failed to handle the clear targetting with something more severe than a roughing-the-passer call. I'm not saying it would have changed the events that transpired afterwards, but who knows.)
But I do believe that Hoke didn't know what was going on, and to be honest I'm not sure how many coaches would in the same circumstance. As a fanbase the sentiment is that Hoke should have been protective of Morris and pulled him because of the ferocity of the hit, but watch a weekly highlight film and you'll see that type of hit (though probably not to the illegal degree displayed here) quite a few times, more often than not with the player getting up and playing the next down. Hell, Gardner has been getting up for 2 years now from horrendous hits; it's not right or fair to expect all players to withstand that punishment, but I think most fans subconsciously expectthat these athletes' bodies to handle more than they probably can in actuality.
Putting Morris in for that hand-off was inexplicable, due in large part to nobody telling Bellomy to locate his f'ing helmet because he was the backup QB now and compounded by Hoke not just calling a TO. I'll admit that in the couple of seconds he had to make this decision, it's hard to know the calculus going on in his head. On one hand a TO in this game might be valuable; Hoke clearly wasn't going to concede defeat, and a wasted down running the ball was preferrable to not being able to stop the clock. On the other hand, Morris should have been stapled to that seat and if it meant taking a delay of game or having Norfleet line up under center and giving Brian a tiny orgasm, so be it. Obviously Hoke allowed the worst to happen, not so much in terms of objective damage (it was a handoff and Morris wasn't touched) but from the perspective of those watching the game and the overall narrative for the game.
Taken in totality, Hoke's handling of this situation is terrible; it's comically awful in the way that each mistake just compounded itself because Hoke made the next-worst decision each time. But I will argue to the end of the day that the information available to Hoke is different than that version held by virtually everyone else watching on TV, which was based on implications and limited observations. It could very well be true tht Morris had a concussion, but nobody in that booth knew that with any certainty, and taken in real-time it did seem that everyone was processing the situation as best they could. The fans booed, but it seemed to be more in response to the replay of the hit than the idea Morris was injured, though obviously I wasn't there so I don't know. I'd like to know from people in the crowd what the tone was.
Further exasperating the situation is how Hoke handled the PR elements in his conference afterwards. His words sounded like a guy who didn't know what was going on, a damning endictment for a football coach going on his 4th year at the program. I do know that medical determinations of players is left out of the coach's hands in many instances; the medical staff is on that sideline specifically to act as an indepedent overseer of the players' health. Sure they can't call Morris over, but once he was on the sideline he should have been looked at (and I presume he was). But regardless, Hoke failed to take the public blame you are frankly paid to take as the head coach in those instances, even if you believe that you did the right thing and, objectively, you might not be as blameworthy as others are thinking.
So I get the anger to an extent, and at best Hoke's handling of Morris was ham-fisted and further defined his a buffoon; at worst he risked a kid's health by being extremely negligent.
But what has bothered me so much about the outrage after this game is that people are trying to drum up some morally-superior reason for wanting Hoke gone instead of just focusing on the wins and losses, the regression shown by his teams, the poor offensive and defensive performances in big games, the dinosaur punting, and everything else that objectively should be used be determining whether or not he should remain the head coach at Michigan. But it feels like there is a mob here wanting to burn Hoke as a witch on his way out, to make him a villain instead of just a bad hire and a mediocre coach. For whatever reason, there is a part of this fanbase that holds on desperately to a sense of superior character, to the "Michigan Man" that makes them better and more pious than other fans, teams, coaches, and administrators.
Dave Brandon can't be fired because he kinda sucks at running the athletic department; we need to find he is also running some cabal of international money launderers or is a brainwashed minion of Big Noodle. Rich Rodriguez couldn't just be fired because his defenses were terrible; he had to the hick who dragged UM's "good name" through the mud because a couple of hack writers went after his youngest players and fabircated a controversy. Hell, Lloyd Carr couldn't be fired because he was older and clearly had taken a step back as a coach as the game passed him by; we had to portray him as a senile old fart who forever tarnished UM's legacy by losing to App St.
And now Brady Hoke, a guy who has gone 28-16 in 4 years at UM (17-14 the last 3) can't just be fired for being a bad coach, but some people need to make him out to be a guy willing to risk the health of his players to "save his job". Hoke should be fired because he seems overwhelmed by the position and his teams aren't performing well enough, and count me in that mob. But he's not a monster, he's not a cold, heartless guy who didn't give a shit about Morris's health. He's a guy who has made a bunch of bad decisions at UM and had a bunch of bad luck in recent years. This feels like a combination of those, and trying to divine more than that from this situation is grasping at straws.
I want Hoke and Brandon gone because they aren't good enough at the jobs based on results on the field. But I don't think we need to tar and feather them on the way out just to make it feel more than that.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:47 PM ^
"I want Hoke and Brandon gone because they aren't good enough at the jobs based on results on the field."
It took you 1508 words to basically say "yea, I want the idiots fired too but dammit - let's fire them for the right reasons."
Who in the hell gives a flying fuck WHY they are fired as long as they are fired? And to echo Lord Grantham's sentiments - why did you feel the need to compose this very, very, very, very long post to give us your feelings on this issue anyways? Couldn't that very, very, very, very long thought have fit nicely inside one of the countless threads up on the board right now on this subject?
September 28th, 2014 at 10:49 PM ^
I am above normative board rules.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ^
Ah yes, because having opinions against the rest of the site on something means I'm one of the boys.
Go find something better to do than be an ass.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:57 PM ^
That was for being an ass over my threads for no reason.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:59 PM ^
What threads am I being an ass on? I honestly don't remember.
But seriously, if me having an opinion that disagrees with you pisses you off so much, so be it.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:03 PM ^
Not only are your ideas stale and trite, you are also a hypocrite. Power and control, brother, that's all anyone wants.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/ot-browns-0
September 28th, 2014 at 11:17 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:09 PM ^
Ha - I just realized that you have been holding onto this burning hatred for me because I questioned why this space need a Brown's post, which you analogize exactly to me posting something about the current football team at the University.
I am absolutely sorry that me pointing out what most other people noted was probably OT bugged you that much. I was probably having a bad day, and I'm legit sorry if that bugged you. But I am amazed that you care so much about something that happened nearly a year ago.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 12:50 PM ^
I'll just have to cry my tears into my Michigan music degree and re-read my Michigan Men's Tennis diaries until I feel better.
September 29th, 2014 at 12:08 AM ^
Many posters agree entirely with your thread.
1) Hoke exhibited negligent and/or incompetent behavior surrounding the Shane incident yesterday.
2) Hoke is probably not evil but it's either that or him being negligent and/or incompetent which is almost worse. It's better to be a competent dick than an incompetent mensch.
3) This press release is not really going to help matters rather it will serve the same purpose of throwing gasoline on a fire already causing damage to our university.
4) Hoke is a dead man walking. Maybe this is where we disagree as you seem to think he should finish the year instead of getting summarily fired in part for his handling of yesterday's Shane related events.
It's fine to disagree but I wouldn't fly over the edge because of a few bad eggs.
Also fartsludge because that is awesome word that should be added to everyday speech.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:47 PM ^
I can see the scene now at the end of UTL III.
Special K gets thrown onto the field after playing Journey while all 2,000 Michigan fans rush DB as he exits the back of the stadium and is sprinting away from the mob.
One fan is holding the Michigan flag and running it with it like that final scene in Red Dawn. Not the original, the crappy remake.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:10 PM ^
Your last few posts have been nothing short of hilarious. I think we lost WD for good guys... Nothing will bring his sanity back unless we hire a Harbro.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:27 PM ^
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September 29th, 2014 at 12:09 AM ^
I prefer apple pies.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
The graphic and condescending tone betray your self-righteous attitude. Failing to plan is planning to fail. We have no good reason to use pro style punting. The OL is a joke. DB is sinister and betraying the inclusive spirit that brings everyone to the Big House year after year. We are catering to the luxury box crowd rather than the crowd of, um, 102,000.
Add to that the condescending tone from this latest UM athletic department debacle and you're going to get a lot of angry, highly educated people.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:57 PM ^
I think you missed a couple more cliches in your post.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:05 PM ^
I think you're doing a shitty job of living up to your word and leaving the board alone for awhile like you said you would. Great pity party you're throwing for yourself. An oppressed minority of one.
Pathetic.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:23 PM ^
By the way, if it isn't clear yet, I find you to be a pretty sad, pathetic person too. At least I'm trying to be civil. You are just being an asshole who talks tough on message board about college football for some reason.
But take it easy for the rest of the night. Your dick swinging hand must be tired after how hard and "real " you've been this evening.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
TL;DR
September 28th, 2014 at 10:49 PM ^
Long story short: you don't think this is a damning offense. Many others do, and are perfectly justified in having that opinion.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:18 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 11:39 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 11:51 PM ^
So a contrary post to the emotional torch and pitchfork crowd is someone who "just felt like arguing"? The Shane Morris happening and snowballing narrative is the pot of gold, tanker truck of gasoline the pyro's needed to light the Fire Hoke effigy ablaze. They certainly havereason to be concerned, if not down-right mad, but this amount of emotional hyperbole is cancerous.
This mob has gone nuclear everyone. We have an impressive lack of self-awareness.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:53 PM ^
I don't think ANYONE is using the Morris situation for Hoke being fired.
I think EVERYONE is using the Morris situation for Hoke being fired NOW.
The vast majority of the board wanted Hoke gone, but at the end of the season...in an honorable way. They appreciated that the guy loves Michigan, that he took a job without knowing the pay, that he worked his ass off to get to Michigan and for Michigan. They felt bad for him that he failed at his dream job.
The only part of the narrative that the Morris situation changed, was the timeline and the sympathy for Hoke. Now people don't give a fuck, they want him to resign tomorrow. Because now he looks like all of the good he stood for was either 1. fake or 2. part of the most oblivious man known to mankind...one who is dangerous to his own team if he really, truly is that clueless and naive.
So all this "the Morris situation is just an excuse to get rid of Hoke" stuff isn't true...it's just an excuse to get rid of him Oct. 1 instead of Dec. 1.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:29 AM ^
times 1000
September 29th, 2014 at 9:25 AM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 10:50 PM ^
I was watching on TV and not listening to the announcers since I was mad about the game and playing Candy Crush. I saw Morris get hit, but didn't realize he took a head to head hit. Thought the guy had gotten him in the chest and when I saw him wobble, for some reason I thought it was because of his bad leg. It wasn't until I saw the replay when I realized it was head to head and he probably had a concussion.
I assume that's maybe what happened with Hoke. He probably didn't see it because he was playing Candy Crush.
September 28th, 2014 at 10:51 PM ^
The ineptitude across the board that this program has been running on can no longer be debated as a Yes/No item. The only thing to discuss are the degrees of "comically awful"; therefore coach go bye-bye.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:01 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 11:05 PM ^
With Hoke this issue is being oblivious, not just to this incident, but to the entire state of the program. Yes, the handling of Morris is more than a damning sympton of what is going on with the "Malaise and Blue". But it is still a sympton. So in addition to Morris being physically compromised by the neglect, we have several recruiting classes of players having their futures compromised by an out of touch leader that fantasizes about "man-ball" and "Down-hill-running" in the face of overwhelming evidence that the tools for such a thing are simply nowhere near the Michigan campus. So sure, do not minmize Morris's safety, that would be horrible, but incredibly, that is not even half the story here. Hoke and the guy that hired him are not fit for the jobs they are being incredibly highly compensated for.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:11 PM ^
Devin was on the same sideline as Hoke and like most players allowed the hc the best view. He immediately dropped his cap and Miller and he began exchanging snaps out of the shotgun. He came, he saw, he did squat.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:12 PM ^
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September 28th, 2014 at 11:20 PM ^
I don't know what kind of "tough" "man-ball" Hoke is teaching, but I counted at least 4 winged helmets watch Shane get levelled - and not one of them got in Minny's face.
I've seen tougher showdowns at a gas stations.
Our team has zero fight. Zero.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:12 PM ^
"And now Brady Hoke, a guy who has gone 28-16 in 4 years at UM (17-14 the last 3) can't just be fired for being a bad coach, but some people need to make him out to be a guy willing to risk the health of his players to 'save his job'."
Wait a minute--I am one of those people to whom you are addressing this thread, and I think this is unfair. Yes, I am very upset at how Mr. Hoke handled this, but I don't think he did anything for the purpose of "saving his job." I think he was horribly negligent in this instance, and I have read many other people expressing the same opinion. It is the tiny minority of people expressing opinions on this subject who are attributing his actions to self-interested evil instead of simple negligence.
"I want Hoke and Brandon gone because they aren't good enough at the jobs based on results on the field. But I don't think we need to tar and feather them on the way out just to make it feel more than that."
What happened there on the field in the fourth quarter is horrible, and I am honestly struggling to understand the point of view of people who don't see it that way. I like to think that I would still feel that way if Michigan were 5-0 right now. I know, though, that like many other fans I'm morally weak when it comes to my team, and I would probably stay silent. That's not something I'm proud of, but that's also not a reason to be silent about what I saw yesterday.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:13 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 1:38 AM ^
asap means now, imo. the op wants him to continue until the end of the season. that's the rub. the morris situation is just another incident of total incompetence. and it was magnified by the big screen and obvious to millions of viewers.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:21 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 11:18 PM ^
This is a joke.
People wanted Hoke fired before this game, but most accepted that it would have to wait until the end of the season.
Then he topped all of his other failures spectacularly in a way that jeopardized the health of a player. It appears that he has lost control of the team and the situation.
I don't know who you are talking to that is painting this as a morality tale, but this is about Hoke being inept. Furthermore, he is inept in a way that damages the team from week to week.
That's why folks want him gone.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:21 PM ^
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September 28th, 2014 at 11:35 PM ^
information the crowd has is that the coach's, out of their own self-interest, did not want to make the move back to Devin...despite all logical reasons to do so...possibly at half. A fifth year senior, who was much better equipped to get us a win in the second half against friggin Minnesota. I could'nt shake the conflict of interest when it was happening. I empathasized with them when it was clearly the right strategic thing to do...but when Morris got hurt and clearly wanted out despite the half hearted keep me in thing...condemnation set in for me. I really thought I wanted to give Hoke, Nuss and Brandon until the end of the year. Not so anymore...I am off the wagon. Hoke and Nuss should have pulled that kid. Secondarily, they also could have and should have one that game against a team with significantly inferior talent. The press release from Brandon further negates his reign. Apologize and be done with it, the famous Dominoes way...don't say the kid was alright b/c we have a great staff...total bulshit and as many times as I have poo pooed folks on the whole head phones thing....THIS is why you where the friggin things. Hoke is shameful claiming he is not aware what is going on with one of his 11 guys in a field right in front of him. That is the job!
Ugh.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:28 PM ^
had to do with the commentator making such a big deal of it.
if he didn't say anything, i bet the reaction here would be much smaller.
that being said: i feel where you are coming from, but i think you are missing out on the fact that this situation clearly demonstrates that hoke's incompetence is now so complete that it is affecting the well-being of the players. the moral outrage may be a bit heavy, but it is definitely valid.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:42 AM ^
i was at the game. i haven't heard any tv commentary. there was a reason why 80,000 boos reigned down on hoke when an obvious injured and possibly concussed QB was left in the game after a vicious hit to the head.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:32 AM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 11:24 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 11:29 PM ^
was an attempt to show respect for the vast majority of people who feel this is a black-and-white hoke is a nincompoop issue. attempts at making OP's point in a blunt manner got boo'd off the screen (ie coldwar).
September 29th, 2014 at 10:27 AM ^
I can put it pretty simply: Hoke and his staff didn't think Morris was that hurt following the play, and then once it became clear it was more than a bad ankle and getting the wind knocked out of him he was taken out. The cock-up on the sideline with him going back in was idiotic but I don't know what happened because that wasn't on the screen.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:26 PM ^
Hoke fans keep pointing out "age" of our offensive line.
Age has nothing to do with our O-lines' lack of desire to engage the opponent and knock him on his butt. It's not age, it's physical desire - it's lacking. Can desire be coached? No, but it is sure recruited. Are we getting the right recruits after 4 years?
A light switch doesn't come on when you're a Junior and you say "Well I'm a junior now so I can start knocking that LB or DT on his butt all game long"... No, you have a desire to knock heads day 1... For whatever reason we have offensive linemen with zero nasty streak in them.
MSU may recruit 2 or 3 stars, but Narduzzi gets them in the mind-set to rip your head off.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:28 PM ^
bronxblue: Board legend devolved into hopeless sunshine blower. I don't understand it. It's like he just isn't watching the same game as the rest of the known universe, week in and week out.