The Wrong Reasons
I already welcome the onslaught of "you're an apologist", "stop defending him", "you're an idiot", etc. But after reading the comments here, including a number of scalding-hot takes, I wanted to put forth my only (tempered) counter-point to the Morris-Hoke situation.
First off, Shane Morris shouldn't have been out there for the play that led to this whole situation. Morris was barely putting pressure on his ankle and was clearly in pain; given the score and the situation he should have been pulled a series before, given a pat on the back and some ice on his leg, and parked on the sideline. He wasn't effective and getting further destroyed by Gophers wasn't going to be a useful learning experience for the young signal-caller. That decision is on Hoke, and he should be rightfully vilified.
After that hit, and this is absolutely my take and in no way based on scientific or inside information, it looked like Morris was limping around on his bad leg and that he was clearly feeling pain from the hit, if not concussed. Personally I never considered a concussion until the announcers started in on it, and even then I guess I was so accustomed to Gardner getting up from those types of hits for years that I thought they were overreacting. In my estimation, Morris struggling to keep his feet was not because he was "out" on them but because he couldn't put much weight on his leg and feeling the effects of that shot he just took.
But it didn't matter what I knew; what mattered was what the coach staff on that sideline thought was Morris's condition and his abilities to continue playing, and that's something we'll never know. I hated Hoke saying that Morris could have subbed himself out if he was injured because (a) players are taught from an early age to never give up, always give their best and not let the team down, and it is on the coaches to protect players from themselves in these circumstances, and (b) it betrays the fact that Hoke probably couldn't/didn't see Morris clearly from the far sideline and had no idea his overall physical shape. That's a failure of communication by someone on the staff, and that is unacceptable.
(Lost in this is the fact that the refs failed to handle the clear targetting with something more severe than a roughing-the-passer call. I'm not saying it would have changed the events that transpired afterwards, but who knows.)
But I do believe that Hoke didn't know what was going on, and to be honest I'm not sure how many coaches would in the same circumstance. As a fanbase the sentiment is that Hoke should have been protective of Morris and pulled him because of the ferocity of the hit, but watch a weekly highlight film and you'll see that type of hit (though probably not to the illegal degree displayed here) quite a few times, more often than not with the player getting up and playing the next down. Hell, Gardner has been getting up for 2 years now from horrendous hits; it's not right or fair to expect all players to withstand that punishment, but I think most fans subconsciously expectthat these athletes' bodies to handle more than they probably can in actuality.
Putting Morris in for that hand-off was inexplicable, due in large part to nobody telling Bellomy to locate his f'ing helmet because he was the backup QB now and compounded by Hoke not just calling a TO. I'll admit that in the couple of seconds he had to make this decision, it's hard to know the calculus going on in his head. On one hand a TO in this game might be valuable; Hoke clearly wasn't going to concede defeat, and a wasted down running the ball was preferrable to not being able to stop the clock. On the other hand, Morris should have been stapled to that seat and if it meant taking a delay of game or having Norfleet line up under center and giving Brian a tiny orgasm, so be it. Obviously Hoke allowed the worst to happen, not so much in terms of objective damage (it was a handoff and Morris wasn't touched) but from the perspective of those watching the game and the overall narrative for the game.
Taken in totality, Hoke's handling of this situation is terrible; it's comically awful in the way that each mistake just compounded itself because Hoke made the next-worst decision each time. But I will argue to the end of the day that the information available to Hoke is different than that version held by virtually everyone else watching on TV, which was based on implications and limited observations. It could very well be true tht Morris had a concussion, but nobody in that booth knew that with any certainty, and taken in real-time it did seem that everyone was processing the situation as best they could. The fans booed, but it seemed to be more in response to the replay of the hit than the idea Morris was injured, though obviously I wasn't there so I don't know. I'd like to know from people in the crowd what the tone was.
Further exasperating the situation is how Hoke handled the PR elements in his conference afterwards. His words sounded like a guy who didn't know what was going on, a damning endictment for a football coach going on his 4th year at the program. I do know that medical determinations of players is left out of the coach's hands in many instances; the medical staff is on that sideline specifically to act as an indepedent overseer of the players' health. Sure they can't call Morris over, but once he was on the sideline he should have been looked at (and I presume he was). But regardless, Hoke failed to take the public blame you are frankly paid to take as the head coach in those instances, even if you believe that you did the right thing and, objectively, you might not be as blameworthy as others are thinking.
So I get the anger to an extent, and at best Hoke's handling of Morris was ham-fisted and further defined his a buffoon; at worst he risked a kid's health by being extremely negligent.
But what has bothered me so much about the outrage after this game is that people are trying to drum up some morally-superior reason for wanting Hoke gone instead of just focusing on the wins and losses, the regression shown by his teams, the poor offensive and defensive performances in big games, the dinosaur punting, and everything else that objectively should be used be determining whether or not he should remain the head coach at Michigan. But it feels like there is a mob here wanting to burn Hoke as a witch on his way out, to make him a villain instead of just a bad hire and a mediocre coach. For whatever reason, there is a part of this fanbase that holds on desperately to a sense of superior character, to the "Michigan Man" that makes them better and more pious than other fans, teams, coaches, and administrators.
Dave Brandon can't be fired because he kinda sucks at running the athletic department; we need to find he is also running some cabal of international money launderers or is a brainwashed minion of Big Noodle. Rich Rodriguez couldn't just be fired because his defenses were terrible; he had to the hick who dragged UM's "good name" through the mud because a couple of hack writers went after his youngest players and fabircated a controversy. Hell, Lloyd Carr couldn't be fired because he was older and clearly had taken a step back as a coach as the game passed him by; we had to portray him as a senile old fart who forever tarnished UM's legacy by losing to App St.
And now Brady Hoke, a guy who has gone 28-16 in 4 years at UM (17-14 the last 3) can't just be fired for being a bad coach, but some people need to make him out to be a guy willing to risk the health of his players to "save his job". Hoke should be fired because he seems overwhelmed by the position and his teams aren't performing well enough, and count me in that mob. But he's not a monster, he's not a cold, heartless guy who didn't give a shit about Morris's health. He's a guy who has made a bunch of bad decisions at UM and had a bunch of bad luck in recent years. This feels like a combination of those, and trying to divine more than that from this situation is grasping at straws.
I want Hoke and Brandon gone because they aren't good enough at the jobs based on results on the field. But I don't think we need to tar and feather them on the way out just to make it feel more than that.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:31 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 11:32 PM ^
and then destroying that straw man.
I do not think anyone has claimed that Hoke was thinking all along that damn with players health as long as I can win. I firmly believe that Hoke is just not a good manager and cannot handle all the details of the HC position. If you are not a good manager and cannot plan for all contingencies ahead of time, then you will be overwhelmed by the events. Hoke was overwhelmed at that point, and his lack of planning and attention to details led to a disastrous situation. He allowed his natural instincts (just win the game) to take over and in the process engangered a players health.
His statement after the game that Shane is very tough and wanted to be back is a clear indication of someone who is just going by his natural instinct that to win the game you got to be tough and play through the pain no matter what.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:45 PM ^
watching the game could have realized after morris was dinged up in that almost safety, the most likely way to win the game was to put in gardner. sticking with morris seemed way more about sticking with a player for confidence reasons rather than an actual desire to win the game.
the hardest thing to comprehend is that a football coach that is paid millions of dollars to manage this football game was watching those series of events, and didn't pull morris earlier. like it just is one of those baffling things that won't ever really make sense.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:19 AM ^
At least on offense. They are a series of "baffling things that won't ever really make sense."
September 28th, 2014 at 11:39 PM ^
Bronx, my problem with this post is that it really doesn't matter whatsoever whether you're right or wrong about this. It really doesn't fucking matter.
Also, there's a false dichotomy in here. When people say Hoke doesn't care about the safety of his players, they're not saying he's a Bond villain twisting his mustache and dreaming of ways to further inflict pain. They're saying that he's oblivious, and if he cared more, he'd be less oblivious. It's not malice, just a bit of apathy.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:40 PM ^
I seriously think Hoke could kill one of the players and someone on this blog would be an apologist for him. How much more will it take until there are no more Hoke Slappies around here?
September 28th, 2014 at 11:42 PM ^
And I'll upvote you every chance I get although you don't need my votes. All you've done is try to instill some rationality into a very difficult situation. But when people are this fired up that is impossible to do. You try to address all the myriad points yet people are still hostile. All of a sudden you are defending straw man arguments that you never made. Bronx, this too shall pass. People will get the bile out of their systems and life will go on. Let's step back and see what unfolds this week... none of us have any control over it.
Ironically most everyone agrees on the basics.... yet the details are dividing people into different camps. I hate seeing my favorite posters here start attacking each other.
September 28th, 2014 at 11:42 PM ^
No. We (or at least the vast majority) want him fired for being clueless. He doesnt have a god damn clue the severity of this. This is abundantly clear when he released that statement. Why did he release that statement? Because of public outrage. Over what, specifically? That he sent left in a player who clearly had concussion like symptoms, and then when you mercifully yanked him, YOU SENT HIM BACK IN AFTER ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF. Hoke doesnt even mention concussions in his vague statement that he probably didnt even write. He does not address the main point of people's outrage.
If what Hoke says is the truth or a lie(in regards to his presser saying he didnt know anything), it really doesnt matter. He is front and center on the sideline for every play of every game. Even when he talks to Mattison, he has his eyes on the field while he talks. What was Hike doing to miss that whole sequence, from the defender rolling up his leg and Shane limping greatly, to the hit to the head, and Shane needing help staying on his feet, clearly looking dazed, and noodle legged? Was he too busy clapping his hands and shouting LETS GO elsewhere?
At the very least, he should be fired for complete incompetence. Hoke simply doesnt understand the gravity of this situation.
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September 28th, 2014 at 11:53 PM ^
Turkish Proverb ~ "It's never too late to turn around if you are going in the wrong direction."
September 28th, 2014 at 11:58 PM ^
1) I found somethhing to agree with where the OP is concerned. I don't believe that Hoke acted maliciously where keeping Shane in is concerned but it was nothing short of imcompetence/negligence on the part of the coaching staff and the buck stops with Hoke.
2) Our seats are in section 42, row 19. I had a decent view of what was going on but not as good as the coaches. As some chump, dumb enough to pay season ticket prices (and yes, I'll keep doing it) even I could see that Morris needed to come out. The jeers from the crowd on my side of the stadium were less boos and more fans yelling to "get him out he's hurt".
We all have our own reasons for wanting Hoke and Brandon gone but if there's one thing that we all seem to be in agreement on then enough said.
I know that we will likely never know but I would love to find out how things went in the player's only meeting.
Go Blue!!
PS I'm at work so typing faster than I'm capable of so pardon any spelling/grammar errors
September 29th, 2014 at 12:13 AM ^
Hoke does not have the talent to coach at this level. Hell, he's recruited highly regarded and sought after players. The problem is that he and his staff cannot develop talent period! You are looking at players who just look clueless on the field because they do not have the right coaching.
September 29th, 2014 at 12:13 AM ^
bronx: I greatly appreciate all the stuff you've done for us but you are so far off on this. It doesn't matter if Shane was concussed
1) he'd taken a brutal helmet to helmet hit that drew a flag
2) he showed obvious concussions symptoms
3) he was allowed to stay in the game for a play and then re-enter
4) there was no rigorous testing done on the sideline
That is unbelievable failure and then to release a statement that lies about what happened and doesn't even mention a head injury is the last straw. This is utterly unacceptable.
September 29th, 2014 at 12:47 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 8:01 AM ^
It was a big hit, but was it a concussion? Maybe the helmet, you know, did it's job. Maybe the wobble was his leg giving out and not a woozy stumble. Perhaps him waving off the trainers and coaches saying "it's just my leg." When off the field the trainers were immediately in his face and assessing him and THEY were the ones who let him go back out there. Perhaps it really was just an ugly looking it.
Should he have been on the field with the leg injury? Maybe not, but when did every big hit automatically turn into a concussion?
September 29th, 2014 at 8:03 AM ^
I'm going to leave this topic alone after this because it's pretty clear because I've made my opinion clear and it isn't worth revisiting until new information comes out.
Let it be said that I agree with Brian (and apparently the majority here on the site) that Morris shouldn't have been out there and that Hoke should have pulled him. I just differ in the opinion that Hoke could have seen Morris displaying concussion-like symptoms on that next play. My argument is simply that once it became clear that Morris was in bad shape after the next play he was pulled, which makes me think it was a delay in communication and not some incompetence by the coach.
Putting him back in after that for the Gardner play was idiotic and indefensible; burn a fucking timeout if you have to. But this seemed like a holistic screwup from the staff. That falls on Hoke. But the fact nobody performed concussion tests on Morris even after he was on the sideline (which is something the training/athletic staff should have done) is specifically designed not to involve a head coach with a (possible) vested interest.
It was an ugly incident during another ugly season. I think we are all in agreement about that. As I said, at best this incident makes Hoke look tone-deaf and borderline-negligent; at worst it makes him nefarious and a guy who should be fired tomorrow. I know I just reiterated what it took 1500 words to write above; I should probably try something like this next time.
Regardless, this community is great and rightfully points out the failings of the team and the hypocrisy displayed by the administration. I know we're just talking about sports, but you still need that. And I welcome the criticism people have about me thoughts here; could do a bit less with the faux posturing by some, but whatever. Sadly I'm still going to watch this team for the rest of the year, even with Hoke a dead man walking.
September 29th, 2014 at 12:57 AM ^
On the other side I have heard several people say if he doesn't have a concussion then none of this matters. I can't disagree more with that. I also refuse to believe that no one on the sideline saw the hit or heard the players yelling to get Morris out.
I agree with others that I appreciate your contributions but I feel like you are turning those of us who are mad into something we aren't. I want Hoke gone because he loses AND because he endangered Morris. But I just feel like right at this moment only one of things is really important and worth talking about. Especially since no one at the university seems to want to talk about it.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:11 AM ^
you are like that 12th person on the jury. given the visual evidence, you can't even come to the obvious conclusion that based on the hit to the chin and crashing to the turf that shane morris MAY POSSIBLY be concussed. and therefore should be held out for evaluation.
unfortunately you can't make someone see the forest through the trees.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:18 AM ^
This echoes my thoughts exactly. Its clear that the Morris situation was handled poorly and that this ultimately falls on the head coach who is responsible for the safety of every player on the team.
BUT -- if I am making a bet on whether that was due to (a) Hoke's willingness to maliciously disregard the well being of a player in order to win a football game or (b) sheer incompetence, I have to go with (b) by a mile. Over the last three and half years we have seen plenty of evidence of Hoke's incompetence, but literally ZERO evidence that Hoke would ever do anything that would in any way harm a player or take any action that was not in a player's best interest. In fact we have seen ample evidence of the opposite in every possible way. Hoke may be lacking some things, but you will not easily convince me that he is someone how does not care about the welfare of his players or somone who would sacrifice a player to win a game. That doesnt jibe with absolutely anything I have seen, read or heard about the man in the last 3 and half years. If you really not sure about Hoke cares about his players or would ever willingly disregard their safety, go ask Dennis Norfleet.
The cognitive dissonance on this is somewhat astonishing. If we hired Jim Harbaugh and the end of last season, and Jim had let Shane go back in the game for one snap to hand off the ball, do you think the board would be still filled with posts demanding his immediate dismissal? If you think the reaction would be anywhere close, you are lying to yourself. I'm seeing threads that Hoke should be immediately fired for risking the safety of the player, which include the suggestion to promote Nussmeier to HC. WHO DO YOU THINK SENT SHANE BACK IN THE GAME??? Last time I checked, the OC was responsible for offensive player substitutions. But let's fire Hoke and give Nuss a promotion! That's not a rationale that can be defended on the supposed basis of player saftey.
Hoke's dismissal is no longer a matter of "if" but "when" but we should be better than letting our pent up anger turn Hoke into some sort of villan on the way out.
TLDR; Incompetence yes, maliciousness, no.
September 29th, 2014 at 1:52 AM ^
please point out the posters that are claiming hoke is malicious!!! the vast majority is pointing out sheer incompetence and negligence. most want hoke gone now because of this. a few leaves are still hanging on the hoke tree that want him to last out the year. that's the only difference.
September 29th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 2:57 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 2:29 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 5:59 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 6:43 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 8:06 AM ^
The problem here is that even if the medical staff told Hoke that Morris was ok to return, WHAT ON EARTH WERE THEY THINKING?! Something happened that was downright disgusting at Michigan Stadium last Saturday and it wasn't on the scoreboard. The AD has provided us with no answers as to who is at blame. It's not outrageous for fans to want answers on an issue this serious. Until they do, we will continue to look to Hoke - the leader of the program - for answers.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:45 AM ^
I was at the game (albeit with the flu, to the point that a warm 80 degree day felt like 40 degrees; sorry if I got you sick!) and I thought the crowd was booing at the replay of the roughing the passer. No one in my general area was talking "concussion", but they were talking targeting.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 11:10 AM ^
I thought it was a hangover thing initially (I went out to celebrate my birthday the night before). It wasn't until about midway through the game when I realized it was just me that felt cold and then Saturday day night is when it got really bad.
I am sorry if I got anyone sick. But my thought was that I was just one more year removed from college, and one more year removed from being able to handle college levels of beer. Turns out that wasn't (or the only) case.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:48 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 9:33 AM ^
I truly agree with you OP and thank you for stating your feelings on the subject. Especially this "trying to drum up some morally-superior reason for wanting Hoke gone instead of just focusing on the wins and losses, the regression shown by his teams, the poor offensive and defensive performances in big games, the dinosaur punting, and everything else that objectively should be used be determining whether or not he should remain the head coach at Michigan"
I understand people are using this incident to add fuel to the fire and while I do think Hoke handled everything as terribly as he could, I don't think he is some evil guy that should be tarred and feathered because of this. I just think he is a not so smart coach that has no idea what he is doing and has made this team worse every year. That's why he should go more than anything. DB should be gone for a multitude of reasons as well. Even though I know this is the case and people may be using the "morally-superior" reason, I am kind of glad because it may mean he is out sooner than expected.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:46 AM ^
I actually agree with 90% of what is written here and have so much more to add on but so little time.
I haven't been able to read through all 300-some responses, but I will say the one point you completely lost me was with the "On one hand a TO in this game might be valuable; Hoke clearly wasn't going to concede defeat, and a wasted down running the ball was preferrable to not being able to stop the clock."
To me it looked like Hoke had conceded defeat a few minutes into the third quarter. I can live with trying something new at QB in the first half, and maybe even letting Morris stay in there for a series in the second half to see if there's any chance he was the right pick to start, but to keep him in series after series when it was clear that he was not going to lead a come back and after he was increasingly hobbled just pointed to Hoke's overbearing stubbornness.
It was almost like he was saying "this is what you asked for, this is what you get". Just as he refuses to wear a headset over and over and over again despite it being more and more apparent that he has no idea what's going on on the field, Hoke was going to continue sticking Morris out there play after play because that was the decision and there was no changing it, score/blowout/fan base be damned.
And lastly, perhaps what irks me most about the situation is that the ONE reason I have ever heard Hoke say he doesn't wear a headset is so that he can get a better "feel" for what's going on in the game, on the field. So now we have a clearly hobbled, possibly concussed QUARTERBACK and Hoke claims he had no idea and can only speak for himself. As a head coach, you need to be able to speak for every player and coach that is a part of the team. End of story.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:47 AM ^
But this post? Man, I don't get how you or anyone else can tell others how to feel about the situation. You feel like the incident isn't as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. And I disagree. Reasonable people can disagree.
And I don't think most people here are calling Hoke malicious. But he's had a pattern of poor game management, so it's not totally surprising to see another example here. Everyone is pissed because it jeopardizes the health of a student athlete. And it's easy to see Hoke cares deeply for his kids...but I'm sorry, his actions (or lack thereof) betray his words. Is it unfair criticism? Yes and no. But when you are a head coach making millions, and something like this happens, you had best be prepared to explain yourself. And if you can't explain yourself well, then I think we as fans have a right to have an opinion that he should lose the job for it.
I think everyone overlooks or underrates just how injured Morris was prior to the headshot. I for one want a coach who is way more proactive in that situation. Hey, my starting QB is struggling, has 50 yards passing and two bad turnovers, is deteriorating on a sprained ankle, and his team is down 23 points...I'm gonna take him out before he gets any worse. But no. He's left in to take a brutal shot and basically collapses on the fucking field. Concussion or not, it should never have gotten that far! The egregious part is that the hit to the head should have easily been the last straw, and it was not. And apparently Hoke didn't even know he was injured! 100,000 people knew! Come on, man. I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough, and he's not allowed to hide behind his medical staff. It doesn't take a doctor to know that Shane did not look fit to play one more snap after that hit.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:02 AM ^
Honestly, I don't get the sense that most think Hoke is a "monster" or even that he thought there was a real risk to Morris and chose to ignore it. I think it's more about the whole scenario just being the last point in a long string of evidence that Hoke isn't a competent head coach. I mean, sure Hoke has other things going on, but it's not like he's calling plays or planning the defense while the offense is on the field. He famously doesn't wear a headset as to not be distracted and focus on things the head coach should focus on. If ever there was a coach which should have had an idea that Morris had no business being on the field, even to simply hand off the football, it's Brady Hoke. That it's hard to picture that Hoke really had no clue he took a shot to the head, was woozy and had to be pulled, yet still allowed him to reenter the game rather than call a timeout, is the only thing leading people to saying, "you know what, maybe he's not a great dude afterall."
This groundswell of "he should be fired," isn't really for the wrong reasons for the vast majority. The vast majority are three groups: those that were ready to fire him immediately before the Morris incident, those that wanted him fired but didn't think there was a point to do so before the end of the season and the Morris incident changing their mind, and those for whom the Morris incident was simply the last straw that pushed them from "we're not sure yet" to "fired." I don't see wrong reasons in any of that, even if some of the villifying is over the top.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:12 AM ^
Take away wins and losses and he's to good guy who cares about his players. I'm ashamed to sit here and listen to all this crap people aresaying
September 29th, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
Glad I found this post, and it probably doesn't matter now, but I completely agree. I don't believe Hoke is a bad man putting kids in danger purposefully, but he's handling of these situations makes him look bad and at this point we have to chalk it up to incompetence at the bare minimum.