I know it's their school now, but god damn, this has been going on for too long. Just reduce it by a section let people who will show up get those seats. Today it looked like 5,000 seats were empty through the first quarter.
Student Section needs to be reduced
you expect for the first noon home game of the year???
It's been like this for 3:30 games as well.
but not nearly as bad as noon games.... its been like this for as long as i can remember and i've been going to games since i was 5 and i'm 34 now, so just move on and bitch about something else...
Enacting a proper ticket protocol, rather than the crap they enacted earlier this year, is the answer.
Tickets that don't scan 15 Mins before game time for FB/BB & 5 before other sports lose points for renewal for next year. Miss two consecutive games entirely withought getting in touch with the ticket office, have your student seats transferred imediately to somebody else on the wait list.
Wait list? There is no wait list for student tickets. And that would leave a backlog of people emailing the office trying to give excuses.
For noon games I'd often come in around 2 minutes before/after kickoff, because of a) lines b) I sleep late and fuck waking up oh shit there's a game today let me throw on shoes and not-enough-clothes-shit-it's-cold-let-me-go-back-and-get-a-coat and c) SHIT MORE LINES
But I think exactly at gametime would be a reasonable cutoff. However, what I've noticed lately (idk if this has happened for a while), is that people push to the front no matter what seats they're actually in.
When I was a wee freshman, we would push up if rows in front of us were empty, sure. But not until maybe the second quarter. We weren't idiots and realized those people weren't there yet, not that they just wouldn't show up. But I went to the MSU game and it seemed like everyone around me was packed two-to-a-seat while the top was sparse. Freshmen need to wait their turn and stay up instead of pushing down. That might explain the empty seats up top. Just a theory.
This is exactly the type of thing Steve Holt's brother would say...
You don't even see it,. "Eh, I'll get up when I get up and get there whenever the game starts. Good enough."
No. Arriving when the game starts gets you to your seet 10 minutes after kickoff at best. Not planning your day and setting your frigging ALARM makes you late. You're a goddamn student at the University of Michigan. Some of us never had the resources to recieve that privlige. Get there early. Get in YOUR seat and cheer your fucking ass off.
Well I'm not in undergrad anymore, so I'm actually not part of the problem now! I wasn't exactly clear enough, but I meant I went to only the MSU game this year. I was only fortunate enough to get away from St. Louis long enough to go to a game. But I understand your butthurt (read: legitimate anger)
You are right, they are a Student at the University of Michigan. It is there right to attend these games and they paid for their tickets and will show up when they want to. The students don't care if other people who couldn't get accepted to the U are bitching about it, nor should they have to. These sports are for them first and formost. Remember that please
I do like the idea of rewarding students better seats not just for seniority as they do now, but for time of arrival.
I say reward the kids that show up early as opposed to punishing those who show up late. Michigan should have a first come first serve seating priority instead of assigned seating IMO. As a recent gradute it bothered me when a group of drunk sorority girls showed up in the 3rd quarter or almost halftime and expected their prime seats to be empty. Having assigned seats allows students to show up late (in their minds).
It's gonna be OK.
I've had to kick people out of my row in section 28 a few times this year and I haven't missed a kickoff.
We used to have to kick the same crew of Brosephs out of our seats in row B in the corner of the endzone back in 2002. Got a little chippy once or twice.
Granted, we'd always get there 2 minutes before kickoff, but we had a 3 story beer bong to attend to.
do you not plan your day/weekend around the game? 7am wake-up and immediate tailgating. You sir, have the exact attitude that can be taken care of by a better ticket system as discussed above.
that "I think exactly at gametime would be a reasonable cutoff" is not a good answer.
. . . ?
Make the student section first-come, first-serve.
I went to the USC-Oregon game last weekend. Had a GREAT time tailgating in 80 degree weather, booze a-flowin, every bit as wild as our tailgates at UM were before the crackdown on State Street houses, if not more so.
There was a mass exodus from the awesome campus tailgates by the students about 30-45 minutes before kickoff. We needed to head to the Coliseum early so my friend's sister and her friends could get seats in the student section, which is first-come, first-serve. I didn't see anyone camping out a la Paternoville, but either they have some restriction on entry time or no one wants to try that in South Central LA. They also use color-coded wristbands to keep some semblance of order, but I was too many sheets to the wind to fully understand the system. Their student section filled quickly and efficiently long before the non-student seats did.
Conclusion: If you can drag the hard-partying SC student body from their gloriously warm and sunny pregames to that hideous coliseum, where the ones that know anything about football were fully expecting to be demolished by Oregon, we have room for improvement.
This is by far the best solution I've seen on this blog.
that's all well and good, but i don't think it's very hard to fill michigan stadium on time when we play a top 5 team either.
But you're saying all we need to do is book the top 6-8 teams each year for our home schedule? Excellent, let's start a petition.
From what I gather, the complaints on this thread are saying that regardless of opponent, start time, or anything else, the students are just getting worse and worse. I think that moving to first-come, first-serve is worth serious consideration.
I agree, but I'm just saying that using an example of: "USC fans went on time when they played #2 oregon!" doesn't really transfer to getting fans on time to a northwestern game
Whereas our students are stoked to see a good game and be on TV, the SC bros were all "Duuuuuude we're gonna get crushed, maybe we should just party more...." and left earlier.
Also, fun fact: They still have their 2004 championship listed on the press box in the Coliseum because only the BCS took it away, not the AP.
But the conversation isn't about the fans but rather the students. They were there real early. Plus they make it real hard to sell tickets to outsiders as the student tickets can only sell tickets to people with school id's. As a result, people get to the stadium relatively early to get into the good sections of the student section.
Also random things about USC football. Who the fuck designed that stadium? You feel soo far away from the game in the seats. However, they sell these things called guest tickets to the students. They can bring friends to games and into the student section for less than face value. Obviously they don't have them for big games but I thought that was kinda cool. It just doesn't work when the entire stadium sells out though.
The LA Coliseum was built for the Olympics originally (1932 and then later 1984) and not intended solely for football. As such the field and track is a larger area than a football field so certain sections are very far away.
I sat in one of those sections for the USC vs. Oregon game and it feels very far away. Was a really cheap seat though.
I'll sign it. What we have going right now just looks bad.
no open container laws and no cops asking for ids = fun times for all
You realize that probably 90-95% of the kids supposed to be sitting in those empty seats are at the game, right? They're just not sitting where they are supposed to be sitting.
I would hazard to guess that half of the first 25 rows are filled with students who ought to be sitting about 70 rows higher up. If you've ever sat in the lower part of the student section, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why everyone is cramped together worse than rush hour traffic on the 405.
So you want them to not sell tickets to the kids who plan on showing up late the following year? That'll work.
But those kids that "plan on showing up late the following year"? How do you determine who it is that is making such plans for the 2013 Football Season? Hacking into their planners on their computers/iPhones/tablets/other assorted e-devices? Or just peeking over their shoulders when they are writing things on next year's calendar? Sounds too 'big-brotherish' to me.
Besides, college kids that plan that far ahead? Reward them! Most that age subscribe to the mindset "Live for Today!"
It's embarrassing. I drove 10 hours to explain to my gf why the top rows across from us weren't filled at the MSU game.
but driving 10 hours to tell her that, really?
It probably should be reduced, and I'm saying that as a student. However, does Michigan still have the demand for the general public to buy up all those extra seats? Tickets are very pricey right now, and as we're seeing elsewhere around college football the demand for tickets is becoming more elastic each year.
It did look pathetic. I don't know why things have changed since us old timers would fill the student section by 11:30 just 10-15 years ago. I blame smartphones....kids are too busy updating the facebook and twitters.
Here's the problem:
1. Students are too busy drinking before the game. The last of them walk in with 8:00 minutes left in the second quarter.
2. They don't sit in their assigned seats. The majority of them pile down toward the field, which makes life awful for the students with good seats.
Both of those things have always happened. Students always partied on gameday and always tried to sneak into better seats. But they still made it to the games (and on time).
There's the problem. The students are drinking these days. Hadn't considered that.
but we'll all make sure to stay off YOUR lawn!
This is a stupid idea. Why would reducing the size help the problem of people showing up late? It was completely full by the end of the 1st quarter.
I was there and it never actually filled up. It got most of the way there but there was still a healthy amount of empty seats up there
This has been said elsewhere, but that's not necessarily because the students weren't there. The bottom 10 rows of the student section are filled to probably 150-200% capacity, and the next 30 are probably around 125-150%. If every single person with a ticket showed up, you would still get quite a few empty rows because of this.
Well during the game I was actually somewhere around row 15 and I had plenty of room to stand. I've been to games where everyone stands sideways down low and this was not one of them.
The people packing in argument works if the top if thin, but when there's cavernous open sections, it's really a stretch
My dear sir and it was nowhere full at the end of the 1st qtr.
For the love of god people. It isn't full up there because everybody squeezes down to get better seats. When we sat down at halftime, people had to sit on each other's laps because there wasn't enough space for everybody. The gripes about not getting there on time are legit but people not showing up on time is not why the top section is empty
That doesn't explain it. Students have always tried to move down from their official seats. In years past, though, it was a lot harder to move down because there weren't 5,000 no-shows at every game. I don't know why, but there seem to be a lot more students that just plain don't show up on a regular basis.
There aren't 5000 no shows from the student section...the total attendance numbers woulf fall beloww 100000 if one section that make up ~1/7 of the stadium was 5000 down from a typical capacity of 110000
The official attendance is not a count of the number of people at the stadium. They count the sold tickets, plus the number of field/media passes and such. The student section's official attendance is the same for every game, since all student tickets are sold as season tickets.
I did the squeeze down thing too, but I pre, during and post graduate experience have ever seen such a poor turnout in the student sections as the last few years. This year it's been horribly empty.
I have often wondered if the ticket office held and sold student tickets until Fridays and then sold the remainder on game days, if we would have and emptiness issue in the stadium.
Not really true - I'm in row 2 and there were empty seats around us until the second quarter. People definitely didn't show up on time today.
This was my only gripe with the Michigan Stadium student section seating policy. For last year's game, I didn't get to stand in my seat and I didn't get to stand next to my friend who had the seat next to me, because everyone just rushes and stands somehere. Your seat has a number for a reason, stand at that number. The ushers are 100% useless also, they don't do anything to people that aren't in their assigned seat. It's a damn circus. I don't understand how every single stadium I have ever been to has managed this task with the exception of Michigna. Stunned.
YOU NEED TO BE REDUCED!
People need to keep in mind that, while some of them are unused seats, a portion is due to people saying "I give zero fucks about what row my ticket says" and moving down and squishing in.
It also wouldn't be fare to not give students who want tickets a ticket just bc some grouchy alumni are pissed that they don't fill every inch of the student section for a NW game at 12:00. As a student, it is your right to get a ticket, and then to subsequently squish down after the start of the game.
Is the stupid fucking "you suck" chant.
Don't go to a hockey game, then. You'll be upset by the many and varied chants and heckling...
Those chants are unique or at least entertaining. Especially the penalty chant.
'You suck' is Sparty-level Juggalo bullshit. The problem isn't that it's impolite, it's that it's fucking lame.
What about the non-students who stumble through my gate at the last minute, every game?
I've had quite enough about people bitching about the students. There are people who leave every game early just to beat the traffic. Shall we punish them too?
Students gonna student. Deal with it.
That doesn't change the fact that at the start of the game there was two sections virtually empty, the NU section and the Student Section
Honestly, don't come if you have to beat the traffic. That shit makes no sense to me at all. I rather have someone who is more concerned about the game than their Saturday night plans.
is the only way to solve this problem, students must be incentivized to show up on time.
Not many people on here are banging 19 year old vagina on saturday mornings, can't expect you to understand.
Is that what I was supposed to be doing in undergrad? FUCK.
Well not many people on here have 19-year-old sisters either. Congrats to you.
I was also surprised and somewhat bothered by how many people left the game following Gardner's pick with over three minutes to go. I know traffic can be quite the hassle, but come on. Oh well they missed one hell of a finish.
Those seats should not be student section, give them to general public so they actually get filled. Back in the day those seats were filled before kickoff.
I'm willing to bet if this was a lecture in Angell C at 10:10AM on a Tuesday, these kids would show up no problem. What makes noon on a Saturday such a challenge in comparison? Shouldn't you -want- to show up for kickoff for a football game versus, say, Anthro 101?
And don't give us the "it takes too long to get in" or "people squeeze in" garbage. If students habitually squeeze down, then why hasn't it ever been noticeable until the last two or three years?
Knock off half a section. These kids don't deserve the expanded section they've been given if they refuse to show up on time, if they even show up at all.
I'm assuming it's the drinking. Which is dumb because students always drank on game day before but the stands were still packed for pregame. (Pregame, not the 2nd quarter.)
I've heard every excuse (RichRod ruined their mojo, they need more time to wake up, they need more time to drink) and none of it flies. One student posted here a month ago saying that it was unreasonable to expect students to get to the game on time for noon starts.
I wanted to rip him a new one for that comment but I've never argued with a fellow Michigan fan online and I didn't want to start then.
Sorry, but that's a really bad analogy. Kids go to class because they have to most of the time. Going to a football game is completely different, especially when a big part of the student culture is tailgating/partying. There are no consequences for showing up to a football game on time or 30 minutes late, so they don't care, and you can't really change that.
Not when you're at the goddamn U of M. This isn't Eastern Michigan. You recieved student tickets to attend U of M football games. It's a goddamn obligation as much as any class is. I swear they should give credit hours.
Did you ever think those priorities led to your lack of "resources?"
I went deaf in 10th grade, which subsequently killed my 3.9 GPA while I tried to adjust, and my family, while full of professionals with excellent careers, has never had a 100K earner ever.
You were saying?
I was saying that not everyone shares your priorities and I stand by it. Buying football tickets is considered part of the Michigan experience but that doesn't mean that every student is a big football fan. They still deserve the right to attend the games and when you compare Michigans student section with most others they look pretty good. The university is for the students and they don't need to live to fulfill your expectations just because you feel you got an unlucky draw in life. And I didn't downvote you.
A: I don't care about the vote, but glad to know it.
B: That's fine. Everyone SHOULD have their own priorities. But U of M students should recognize how impotant the team is to so many, and NOT buy tickets they think it likely they will waste. IT's my right to buy a bottle of water and then go to the sahara and pour it out in front of some desert folk, but I wouldn't do it.
I know that's extreme, but that's why people get so upset over this. Tickets are EXPENSIVE. to see people buying them, especially students, and then not use them when they KNOW there are so many out there that want them desperately is a problem. If you're going to buy student/season tickets, use them, correctly.
mgoblog is sending my tablet into a tizzy so I must exit this discussion.
Well you should understand that not every student is a die-hard Michigan fan the moment they buy tickets. Before I went to Michigan, I couldn't have cared less about football in general, but my brother convinced me to get season tickets because it's such a big part of the UM culture. I was guilty of showing up late to games for the first couple years, but as I became a bigger fan, I understood what it meant to get to the games on time. Just glad I had my brother to steer me in the right direction because now I am a die-hard fan. Give the students a break - they'll appreciate it more eventually, and those are the ones who do show up on time.
I don't have any problem with people not being die hard fans. Fine. Not everybody is. That's the point. Too many people are. If you're not, if you ever catch yourself thinking, "Eh... I guess I'd like to go to a couple of games", then don't get student/season tickets. Scalp seats for just the games you care to attend, and that you'll show up for on time. Don't make those who ARE die hards fight you for the season tickets. It just costs everyone money.face.
If there were enough die-hard fans to fill the seats every game, then there wouldn't be any of these casual fans at the games that you seem to hate so much. It's part of what comes with an elite football program - get used to it. There will be die-hards, and there will be people getting tickets for the sake of it because it's Michigan.
There's a wait list and thousands of screaming freshmen without enough credit hours that say you're wrong about not-enough-diehards.
Yes, I know there's a waitlist because I'm on it. Doesn't mean I have problems finding tickets to every game the last four years since I've been out of school - I've been to every one. If people want tickets to the games, they'll find them. I was able to get my tickets for face value every year; it really isn't that hard.
Not saying you're automatically wrong, but you're making a huge assumption that someone is a diehard just because they are on a waiting list. Example: I might join a class waitlist because it fits my schedule better or any number of reasons that may have nothing to do with my educational interests.
Remember, many of the same alumni who are frequently chastised for not being louder were once on a wait list, too.
And, now that I think of it, how are you even defining "die hard"? Is it sometime who shows up on time? Is there a requisite amount of cheering that must be done? If you wear something other than maize or blue to a late November game, are you disqualified? (I'm posting on a Michigan blog at 10:30 on a Saturday night. So you know where I'm at.)
[EDIT: This should be in response to Blazefire. That's what I get as a frequent reader but infrequent contributor]
If you (hypothetical student) have an Antro 101 lecture at 10 AM on a tuesday and you show up regularly, you have my respect. I think I showed up three times to that when I took it.
Are you, the consummate band geek, trying to pull the geek card on our student body? Good one ;]
Anywho, yes, it is a school. Some people find they do best at school when they attend class. Personally I never participated in that frippery, unless participation was part of the grade, since I went to Michigan to spend all my time at sporting events! /s
Sometimes wanting to be there for football isn't the issue either. LOTS of students travel home for Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, etc.
But in all seriousness, regarding the squeezing of the students, we did have a few thousand seats added in the past 2-3 seasons. If anything, knock off those nosebleed rows and sell them to people who actually give heed to seat numbers.
The reason we added more student seats was because we had more applications than available seats in the student section. So students were being placed in other areas of the stadium with available seats. Often, freshmen who did not go to M knowing anyone were being placed alone in odd corners of the stadium, deprived of their student section experience. My sophomore year was spent sneaking my freshman girlfriend into the student sections since her seat was alone in section 38.
I'd rather have empty seats at the top of the student section than to go back to that.
Oh god I remember this...
I remember the first year of my phd (2005) when there was a separate grad student section in the south endzone It sucked being apart from the rest of the student section. At least the Henne to Manningham catch happened in that endzone.
So which students shouldn't get tickets? If you're going to suggest shrinking the student section, you need to argue who gets left out.
I've missed three home games for recruiting trips this year, including Michigan State. Trust me, I wanted to go to the games, but sometimes things don't work out. I didn't bother to sell Illinois or UMass, because there wasn't a market and I sold the MSU ticket to a Michigan fan.
If I had another year left, should I not be eligible? Should there be staff members designated to determine who should get tickets renewed?
Maybe we could try to determine how many season ticket holders make all of the games themselves and then make a judgement. It's pretty easy to give away tickets at the office on Friday when you can't make a game.
You'd need to contact the ticket office and make arrangements to meet with someone to explain your extenuating circumstances. But basically, yeah. If you can't be there, and you're not DYING, your tickets should be available to someone that can.
Sorry if that sucks, but too bad.
Who's going to pay people to take those calls, read those emails, and make those decisions? Who runs the appeals process? Who makes the criteria?
Besides, if I want to keep my tickets, then you're suggesting that I need to send a form email to the athletic department when, by the day before? Two days? Maybe a week? No chance that email isn't honest.
Is a doctor's note okay to not use something I've paid for? Should I have the funeral home call Dave Brandon if I'm at a funeral? Maybe Brady Hoke could take a call from my mom if I have an important family function on a Saturday? If I'm across the country interviewing, should I bring a form for the interviewer to sign? I hope no one gets married on a Saturday.
Could I sing Varsity 10 times in front of Schembechler Hall for atonement?
Complaining about students not showing up is an annual occurrence, but get over it.
I appologize for your extenuating circumstances, but it doesn't really matter. Whether you have a "good reason" why you can't be there or not, those seats should not go empty. If you're going to be there infrequently enough (and there's only 6-8 home games per year. Missing more than two is pretty damn frequent), no matter what the cause, somebody else who can/will be there more should have the chance.
It's one thing to say that, it's another to actually do anything about it, especially if you want to do it intelligently. Doing that would cost the AD a lot of cash and create a lot of headaches to accomplish relatively little.
Reality is that it's easy to get tickets to games students show up late for and really hard to get tickets to last year's OSU game. People who want to treat current students more strictly than alumni season ticket holders are really arguing for the AD to sell a pretty small number of very high price season ticket packages to people who could easily obtain tickets via StubHub for less than the AD would charge, with the goal being to eliminate 10 rows of bleachers at the top of the stadium you don't like seeing.
I know I'm being a smartass, but those top 10 rows aren't worth taking tickets away from students because 10% of them might have to skip a game for a whole host of valid reasons that would be impossible to verify.
But the last few years have been like this. Rest of the stadium is full but the student section is half empty. Something needs to be done.
I don't understand why they don't start selling beer in the stadium or at least loosen the rules on bringing alcohol in. If you've been drinking before the game, you're due for one hell of a hangover starting about 3 hours after you stop drinking... so to avoid that a lot of people just continue drinking into the first quarter. I usually bring a flask, but with the searches for "weapons", it can get tricky at times and the other times I usually forget to prepare one before I leave. If you want to more people to show up, don't sell tickets to 19 year old sorority girls who have never attended a game before and spend 1/2 the time bitching because they can't get a signal to their phone and socializing with everyone around them. "Hun, I'll talk to you after the game is over, I don't have time to explain how many 'chances' each team gets."
Part of me isn't sure if this is a novelty account.
I totally agree that we might need to reduce it. I was in section 44 today, and everyone around me was complaining at the poor turnout and how late they came. I used to wake up 7am after being out till 330-4am to make sure I got to the game on time and only got to the 2004 minn game late. Which was a drunken Malay, but that's no excuse, even though I fell twice walking on Hoover. Tmi, whatevs I got to the game. Better than what can be said for this generation.
Your signature is bad, and you should feel bad
I disagree. In fact, I think it needs to be oxidized!
Is it possible the students are just cramming themselves into the lower rows?
Not a chance. I'm in Row 1 of Section 26 and haven't been squashed until midway through at least the first quarter in every game this year. Unlike the past couple of years, moving down isn't the reason for empty upper rows.
I don't know about you, but I'm in row 34 of 26, and we get a ton of extra people in our row every game (and it's been like that every year I've been at here).
It's like: get in your own fucking seat!
Could someone please explain how reducing the size will cause people to show up earlier?
Fraternities and Sororities will still turn in bulk ticket requests. They'll still get tickets. They'll still show up late.
I was one of these people. I'd be lucky to make it by the end of the first quarter. I'd be lucky to last until the end of the third quarter.
People will bitch about this until the end of time. It's an annual occurance. People seem to forget that not everyone cares about football games. Students buy football tickets. It's just one of those things that you do when you go to Michigan regardless of whether or not you have any intention of going to the games. The ticket request form comes out, you fill it out and send it in.
I do not buy this. As others have mentioned, this is a fairly recent development. Yes, there will always be latecomers. But the blatantly empty swathes of bleachers are an unwelcome and relatively new phenomenon, in my opinion.
As a freshman in 2003, I remember having ample company in the student section. In Row 92. And not just for the Ohio State game.
The band didn't show till about 1/2 hour before the game.
Reduce the band.
Their behavior today was also atrocious. Expell em!
From a students perspective I was disappointed in the turn out but there's a a few factors that go into it (in my opinion):
- First noon game of the year. When you're used to all 3:30 games where you have a lot more time to sleep in/pregame/recover from the night before/eat breakfast or whatever everyone likes to do on a Saturday morning. Hell even I was running later than usual on this one (still made it about 10 minutes early but not as early as I like to be).
- Lots of Mid-Terms this week. A lot of people have their second set of midterms coming up. For the diehards like all of us, who would never miss a game they could make it to, you simply have to plan around a 4-5 hour block for the football game. But for a lot of run-of-the-mill fans, impending midterm doom will take precedent over football.
- Section compression. The student sections is less festidius with "where your seat actually are" than other sections, basically it's can become a free-for-all, with a first come first serve attitude. A lot of times when a lot of people are late to the game (as was the case with this game), people from the upper sections move down to the the large swaths of open seats in the lower sections. Then, when the people who were late arrive, they don't move into the open seats up top, rather going to their assigned seats and either A. kicking the people who moved down out of their seats, or B. (what happens more often) having everyone in the row cram together to fit the new people. This happens just about every game for me, and it leads to most of the people in my row having to either be very close together, or standing at an angle to allow everyone to fit in the row.
Yet again, I'll say it again, I was disappointed in the Student section this game. But there are reasons why it happens.
But, there are a lot of perks to having a big student section. I'll openly say that the student sections is definitely the loudest/rowdiest area in the stadium (I've sat in many other sections before my days as a student), and if its size is reduced, the "12th man advantage" of our stadium is goes down a lot.
I definitely disagree with that one.
All the students at other schools show up to the "big games" that we all see on TV on time, but so do Michigan's students. Games like State 2012, and Nebraska, Ohio and ND 2011 all filled up very quickly in the student section. Important/hyped up games, have students that always show up on time. The lesser games, not so much. But we often don't watch those on TV as attentively as the big games, so we don't notice those. As mentioned above, Florida had the same problem we did in their game this week.
The only big difference with some other schools and us is that they have "first come first serve" student seating—like a handful of Southern schools (Auburn is one I can think of that does this—anecdotal evidence though, I don't have any proof). Which personally like, as it would allow the more devoted fans to get better, and force everyone to show up earlier. That can spiral out of control though, requiring students to line up hours before a game to get decent seats. For better or worse we don't have that, and that's just how things are.
They do? Prove it. Seriously, prove it. This is the Auburn student section today:
Boston College vs FSU last year:
West Virginia in 2010:
Wisconsin vs MSU this year:
That took about 2 minutes.
Which of those schools are known for over 40 years of sellout games and full stadiums? Which have a reputation as being one of the true kings of the sport?
If nothing else, you have an obligation.
An obligation? Really? It's a game. I happen to show up to football games, but I'm here to get an education, not to go to sporting events.
Alabama's student section in November 2011. They're big-time.
So student attendance sucks everywhere? Reduce the number of student tickets everywhere.
Why is this so hard to figure out? If the school (and i mean any school) gives a shit about attendance then pull student ticket distribution down. If the dont care then leave it as is and deal with the consequences
I will say this however....Kovacs didnt waive a SECOND when asked which end of the field Michigan wanted to play in in OT. I loved it...he pointed at the student section and said "we want to play there".
This is just plain fucking stupid. It's college, not Soviet Russia.
If that's how you feel, then that's fine. No problems. Not everyone is diehard. But then don't get season/student tickets! Let someone else who DOES feel the responsibility to be there and support the team have them, and scalp seats for the games you care about.
But you should feel an obligation to honor your fellow students that are on the team, they work hard for Michigan. You are Michigan. That said, I've been late before, so it happens...
An obligation? No. Just no. I would love to believe in a world where only the most dedicated, fanatical fans get tickets, attend the games, and cheer appropriately loudly. But tradition does not equate to an obligation. Not even close. At least, not in the way you mean.
Can you really blame the Auburn students for not showing up though?
This is a picture of a Texas v. Baylor game when Texas was a TOP 5 team, taken in the 4th quarter.
This was posted on the main page of mgoblog awhile back, and it specifically mentions they had essentially no student section the entire game.
The swamp 15mins before the game...
MSU's student section right after their 2-OT loss...
Our student section was full after the 1st quarter.
The issue is not the size.
that last picture is actually the same end zone as the student section, so you can't see the empty rows at the top.
True, but I still think that the picture shows that the student section was mostly full when it was taken. Since the camera is at the top of the stadium you're only going to miss a couple of rows.
Oregon has a relatively small student section and is rarely more than 60% full at the start of games. However, even though I am in my upper 30's, I am too busy tailgating or watching the Michigan game to get to my own seat in time.
Agree completely, also keep in mind this weekend was parents weekend so a large amount of people, at least ones I know, either didn't go to spend time with their parents or sat outside of the student section with their parents.
The solution is taking the top of the student sections away. People might actually stand near their seats if they don't feel so separated from the rest of the students at the top. You might actually need to expand them a section or two sideways to get this done, which I think is the real obstacle.
Yeah. Let's limit access for...the actual students of the university. Good idea!
Give the top of the student section to general admission, and give the lower half of the two sections next to the student section to the students. Students still get the same number of tickets, but they'll feel less need to squeeze down. Everyone else will fill in the top rows.
If not, I think you need to reread my post, which you obviously misunderstood. I didn't advocate reducing the total number of student season tickets. I advocated giving them better seats.
Am I happy that the students don't always fill in before kickoff? No. But this is not a unique Michigan problem. Plenty of other schools have this issue: see Florida today.
But taking away tickets is not the answer. At the end of the day, the school is run for the students, and as long as there is sufficient space for student tickets, they should be available to every student regardless of attendance records.
Should we give the best seats to people who show up? Of course. The current system of assigned seating based on credit hours makes little sense.
And finally, the students did fill in today. When the team needed the stadium loud, it was.
I disagree to a point. I know this wont be a popular statement but since nd and us are so very comparable...have you ever watched or attended a game at nd where their student section was half full, sparse or they showing up so late that everyone else in the stadium bitch about it for an entire quarter?
No, you haven't.
Is there anything else to do when you go to Notre Dame?
Notre Dame is a much smaller school where nearly all students live in Dorms, and greek life is non-existant. The campus culture is so different that it is not comparable.
Besides, ND offers a capped number of student tickets not only to ND students, but also to those at St. Mary's and Holy Cross. So there's that to consider.
As I understand from friends who went to ND, you pretty much can't resell your student tickets there, either. They come in books that can't be transferred to another person (and are also quite a bit more expensive than our tickets, FWIW).
Let the kids drink and puke on shoes. That's all they do.
That's not ALL we do! It's just...ya know...a lot of what we do.
Whatever the reason(s), empty seats at the very least gives the appearence to outsiders that the stadium is not selling out. None of us wants that. Huge crowds is one of the many things Michigan is famous for.
Another thread to complain about people who don't share your priorities. Goody. Why don't you go to more track meets?!?!? Absolutely shameful! ThisisMichiganfergodsakes!!!!!111!!!
I hear your frustration, but I see this as an access issue for alumni and fans in general. If the students don't come, or come on time to such an egregious degree or don't use their tickets, shouldnt people who want to buy those tickets be able to annually?
I would agree with you that yes they should if what you were suggesting made sense to me. It's very difficult to tell the difference between a ticket request form sent in by someone that will show up for every game and a ticket request form sent in by someone who wont. Demand is demand. Reducing the size of the student section does nothing to change the information asymmetry inherent to this situation. For all you know you could be eliminating the seats of students that will show up. Also, there's the difficulty of choosing which requests to grant and which to deny. And proposed systems to determine who shows up and who doesn't sound like logistical nightmares.
Except that - unlike track and field - everyone here cares about football. We have pretty much shared priorities on this one.
It helps our stadium atmosphere, and homefield advantage, to have everyone there on time. If alumni start showing up right at kickoff or later (which was the case at Purdue a few weeks ago), they deserve criticism too. But at Michigan the problem is chiefly localized in the student section.
Everyone on MGoBlog cares about football. Not everyone who goes to Michigan or buys student tickets cares about football.
That's what I meant by "here". A poster above was arguing that getting to the games early was just some oddball priority, like going to obscure sporting events.
If you care about football (and I think everyone on MGoBlog does), there shouldn't be any disagreement about this - it's a problem when our stadium has lots of people not showing up on time (if at all). I'm surprised there are posters on this site making excuses for it.
I believe that students should have the right/privilege/ability (whatever you want to call it) to purchase season tickets regardless of whether or not they have any intention of attending a single game. It's one of the perks of going to Michigan. If you want season tickets, you can get them. You can get them and light them on fire for all I care.
If by "a poster above" you mean me, you're wrong. the priorities in question (those being complained about in this thread) are those of the students that don't show up. My point is just because you might have a certain priority doesn't mean that everyone else should.
Let's face it, the student section has been turrible for a while now. I saw it from '04-'08 while I was there and I remember thinking the same thing. I rarely ever showed up after kickoff. Most of these people would rather drink beer at "insert random frat here" instead of showing up for the team. Pathetic.
and go into the dorms at 11am, choose students at random, dressed or not, and march them to the stadium at gunpoint. If they resist, shoot them in the kneecaps and then rifle-butt them in the chops.
Reading up to "11am:" Awww, how cute, like pregame partner wakeups but for non-greeks! Good idea!
Kept reading: Oh, that's not how we did it....
Last sentence: DEAR GOD, MAN!
After reading more and more posts on this topic, from a recent former teacher who left the profession for greenery pastures, this is a generational thing. This is a generation of instant gratification, "being cool" and can't handle being told to be somewhere on time. I mean we used to fight for our rights on campus, now we fight for the right to not write.
It's Michigan's fault for having a game time that's doesn't fit people's social schedules, studying or partying habits on Saturday. That needs to be thwatted or fb or texted to the ad five mins prior to them changin their mind after seeing someone cute, or having a hunger tickle or needin to find a bathroom. I mean who wants to commit to a noon kickoff anyways. We should just chill bro, and gangham style a solution when 20 somethings are ready for kickoff. Shit even the army won't seven generation to fight!
You are all missing the point.
First off, the student section is not half empty. It's only those nosebleeds up top. Do you ever wonder why it's only the nosebleeds? It's because us students do whatever we can to get closer to the field. Typically it's the freshmen who get seated up top. A lot of freshmen don't like being seen as freshmen based on where they sit, so they move. It's retarded, I know, but it's the way it is. I can guarantee that rows 1-80 are far more densely populated in the student section than anywhere else in the stadium.
And yes, there are a good portion of students who get too drunk before the games and don't make it. Some of you consider that I crime, I consider that being in college. Pregames are the best days of the year, so if you miss a NW or Illinois game once in a while and wake up somewhere in Ypsi, it is not disappointing.
With that said, the student section could be half full and we would still be the loudest section in the stadium. The fuckers who sit to our right either think we're on offense the entire game or don't have vocal cords. It's pathetic. When they do the 'M-I-C-H-I-G-A-N' chant, I have never once heard the I or C.
You can take a section away from us if you so desire, but those empty rows up top will never change. If you want some actual football student attendence issues, go to East Lansing.
I can hear the C pretty well in section 3. Its the A I can't hear.
Freshmen sit in the top rows now? I thought they were in the endzones.
I disagree with the idea that nothing can be done to stop this, because it wasn't that long ago that we didn't have these huge empty swathes in the student section (and people used to move down to better seats back then, too).
I fully agree that the students are the loudest fans at the games - but that's what's frustrating about this. They could be better. A lot of us complaining are former students who got to the games on time when we were in school and screamed our heads off for four quarters. We see the current students, who are supposed to be carrying that torch now, not doing all they can to keep it going. I don't know if the student section should be shrunk, but I think going to general admission might help.
Part of that is how close you are to them. I've sat in other sections of the stadium and you never hear the other letters
For a lot of students, getting to the game on time is not a priority. Just because you diagree with their choices does not mean they are wrong.
If anything, blame the athletic department. Give the students a compelling reason to show up early, and more probably will. I would start with general admission--if you show up early, you can sit wherever you want. That might encourage earlier seating. Second, come up with a more exciting pregame routine. The tradition of the band is unfortunately lost on the students, and nothing else that is going on is providing enough of a wow experience to get people there early. Flyovers and Jetpack guy last year were both really cool, but they need to get the word out about them better (nobody reads the stupid emails they send out on Thursday night about the game). Giveaways might help too, but it has to be more than throwaway value. A hat or $20 gift card for the first 10,000 students into the student section might me enough to convince people to come early.
In general, I believe the culture needs to be changed. This is my fifth season as a student, and it does appear to have gotten worse every year. Maybe the Rodriguez years hurt enthusiasm, maybe college students are more apathetic in general. Whatever the reason, it's true that students are not showing up on time, and don't really care. Part of the problem with the culture is that the slow people--girlfriends, friends from other schools, students who aren't die-hard football fans--keep the friends who actually want to go early back, since they have to wait for one last drink, or to meet at another party, or just because they walk down Hoover slowly. And once it's okay for some people to show up late, it becomes okay for everyone. If there can be some more momentum for showing up on time, I think it will snowball as students see others on their way toward the stadium early. Making it culturally unacceptable to show up late will help start to solve the problem.
By the way, there will always be out of state students, people that really don't care about football that much, and hard partiers who will never sacrifice drinking to watch the pregame and kickoff. The key is to get the Median 50% in sooner than they are arriving now.
It's called tradition!! Try some! When you are 40 and perhaps married and have kids, or not, you will never have the memories or appreciation for how truly blessed you are to have gone to UofM. I have lived on the east coast and met so many different kinds if peopel. ivy league, liberal arts colleges, big schools and their traditions both football and all other sports experiences pale in comparisons to what you get very fall and year. Even just cultural and student life...
Wake up young padawan!!! Wake up! You will never get this time back!
Ok my thumbs are getting in the way of my spelling abilities, but you get the point.
I understand, and I appreciate the tradition. All I'm saying is that others don't share that, and it's not a poor reflection on them.
Also, I mentioned it on my post above, but my experience today was basically this: I wanted to leave my pregame at about 11:30. I got everyone together in my group, and about 10 minutes later we were gone. But then we had to pick up someone else down the street, then eventually I left the group behind as they were walking too slow. I had to wait in line at the gate so I missed kickoff and the first drive. So what? If I were alone I could have made it, but friends are important too. There is almost no point in attending an event like a football game if there is no one to share it with.
I am not slamming you specifically, more a generalization which isn't always the best observation, but I pretty much used to say peace out rather than follow the crowd. My fandom is a lifetime, one more beer is a pisser.
Part of the "tradition" as a student is to pre party and then show up late, no? I think pre game experiences are the reason many kids go to school in a2 and remember it fondly along with the games. Not everyone of the 110k plus needs to be a purist and kids should be kids.
This is a none issue. Leave the kids alone you ol curmudgeons. I personally think Kovacs saying "that end" at the OT coin flip and crowd performance during OT should have preempted such a strange post. He didn't pick the "traditionally" alum section did he?
Honestly, I don't think positive incentives work that often in these cases. A half-drunk student is probably not going to forego that last drink just to get the freebie of the week.
There simply needs to be more pressure to get to the games on time - more fear of being late. When I was in school (a decade ago), I knew that if I didn't get there on time, I would not be able to sit in my actual seat. I'd be stuck in a crappier seat somewhere - maybe not even in my section. Apparently that fear of being late is gone now. The AD can bring it back by either giving seat priority to those who show up on time or simply going to straight-up general admission.
I think I am in favor of ga for students. I guess I am weirdo, but I would have showed up at 8am to get the best seat for game day. Just sayin!
All this squeeze down crap has always happened but people used to bring bottles in with them, now people drink till 1 and then sashe into the "student section. I just started early and watched the clock.
hey look jmblue is talking down to people with blanket statements. Junior I showed to Michigan games 2 hours early when I was working on my PhD at Michigan. When I was using my parents tickets, I would show up 2 hours early. This year, my first year as a victors club member and season ticket holder, I show up 2 hours early. However, not everyone is as hardcore as I am. Some of my friends show up late because they have numerous other commitments such as rehearsels with the music theater department on Saturday mornings or they just don't care as much as I do. Yet they pull with Michigan with all of their heart. When I say all I read in this thread is bitch bitch bitch and whine whine whine, that is all this thread is. One GIANT bitchfest from those individuals who only see the world in black and white. Get over yourself.
STUDENTS: If you don't want to go to the games, give your tickets to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Its pretty sad. I was in the student section today and the frat guys standing in front of me were more interesting in the beach balls being hit around then the actual game.
All I am reading is bitch bitch bitch and whine whine whine. Who gives a shit. Jeebus first world problems.
Figures that a Purdue guy would say this. All of Ross-Ade Stadium looked like our student section at kickoff a few weeks ago.
here we go again...Just becuase I chose to go to another school that has a higher ranked physics department while I still rooted against Purdue and pulled for Michigan, then earned two degrees from Michigan and now am I season ticket holder for Michigan, I am some how don't understand. Junior, just don't. I have more Michigan blood in me then you will ever have. I don't see you planning trips to the UP to follow the hockey team on their last UP road trip. this is a fight you will NOT win.
He'll win. Any time the poster you're arguing with has a meltdown and gets banned for the 27th time it's a victory.
except now I teach physics and I know my students follow me on this blog and on twitter. I watch my language and what I say now. Yes, this is a battle I will win. As long as we are wipping it out. The money I donate to Michigan and the trips across the country, prove I BLEED michigan. but somehow I don't understand after 7 years of student tickets at Michigan.
By the way your gif in that lame sec 1 thread is hilarious.
I was near row 30 by kick off and I haven't felt like it was that packed in a long time. We all had to stand sideways although it may have been better in other places. That said the top rows seemed very spaced out.
I can't even imagine being late for a game ever. That's almost as bad as missing a game.
My crazy ass went in at 10am today. That's what I usually do for Noon starts to stand by the tunnel for warmups.
First one in, last one out. Want to spend all the time I can in the greatest place on earth.
The one thing that really irked me as a current student was the numerous times that students in the endzone tried to start the wave. When we were losing. Come on guys, use your heads and focus on the game.
The wave should only be used when Michigan is blowing a team out.
I'm pretty sure they tried to start it when Colter went down with an injury as well. Also during an injury against Airforce. The really bad part is when the rest of the stadium doesn't do it as well they start booing. So they boo during an injury timeout. That REALLY upset me and embarrassed me as a student.
But during the early and mid 80s there were always late students. Me and my friends would do morning tail gating. Nothing like drinking at 800 AM for a noon game, especially when you were out getting hammered on Friday Night! We always wanted to see the player touch the banner running out onto the field!
FWIW, I graduated from Virginia Tech this spring and we had the same issue in my four years. It seemed to get worse each year even though VT has been consistently good, especially at home. We also have a great team entrance with 'Enter Sandman', so I could never figure out why you would want to miss that. I don't think there's any way around it.
I first had access to student tickets in 2003, when I was issued top row (98 or 99, I forget) tickets. I could lean against the top wall and watch the game from the nosebleeds. I never missed a kickoff. In fact during the entire Lloyd Carr era I walked into one game late, a EMU blowout and I only missed half the first (and have a good excuse).
I graduated before the RR began, but thanks to a grad student friend who was happy to buy season tickets and sell them at face, I had a steady stream of tickets. I actually still have unused tickets for that era, as in I didn't go and I was too disinterested to even scalp them. After sitting through 2008, it just killed them.
So first give the student body time to cycle in a new generation whose souls weren't crushed by the crap offense of 2008 and the crap defense of the rest of the RR tenture. Going to games is like voting, it is a habit you need to get into. With RR you pretty much had to stay at the tailgate drinking until midway through the second. You didn't want to be capable of feeling pain come the end of the game.
The other thing is the stadium atmosphere has steadily gone downhill. In 2003 you could bring in an unopened water bottle and the gate workers tended to look the other way on snack food. I remember cruising in fifteen to twenty minutes before the game, settling down, having some water, hitting the flask, and eating the snack I'd smuggled in.
Now gate security is a lot tougher. During the cold games you can smuggle in stuff under bulky jackets, but during the early months the options you can bring through security are limited. So I can see why most students would stay at the tailgate for one last hotdog as opposed to entering early and paying through the nose for a stadium one. They are broke ass college kids after all.
Finally pregame has always been blue hair time. All these weird cheers and stuff that I has a student had no interest in. I remember sitting there with this cute blonde girl, sharing pulls off my flask and mocking our rich musical hertigage of songs from the 1920s. Also how the old people all showed up an hour early.
If we're going to do anything, I'd say go back to the circa 2003 rules for bringing stuff into the stadium. I know the bottled water ban pissed a lot of people out and it just one symptom of the degrading stadium atmosphere. We have a lot of cops on patrol than we used to and the ushers are much bitcher than they were in the past/
Secondly if you want the kids in early, throw them some bones in the pregame. Varsity is not that great of a song and there isn't that much else going on.
(The other issue I think that is overlooked is the AAPD is really cracking down hard on State Street and those environs. These days it much harder to stage yourself at a party near the stadium around say 11 am. They're pushing people back and increasing transit time of the drunks from their house party to the student section. It used to be you could start walking at 11, hit six other parties, and then roll into the stadium about 11:45 or so.)
Whoa, hold on. You're bitching about the "M Fanfare," "Let's Go Blue," "Varsity" and the "Victors"? That's the MMB's pregame lineup - and it is awesome. It gets great crowd participation. I don't think that's the problem at all.
Indeed. Although 'Varsity' and 'Let's go blue,' are somewhat recent additions to the pregame lineup. Varsity not being added until 1996 and Let's go blue being added just in the last several years.
The pre-Varsity days, the band would break into a random formation and play a fun song where they usually danced during a percussion solo, like this...
It was fun to watch but I hardly think a dance number is going to get the students to the game on time. Surely it's a generational thing.
Well the cute blonde girl I happen to be with goes in with me when gates open to get there by the tunnel for warmups.
Your loss missing the pregame.
There's this guy that's usually near me in the student section that wears maize football pants, a jersey, and receiver gloves to every game. In my mind I've started envisioning you as that guy. You're kind of ruining tht illusion for me with this additional information, though.
I don't understand the point of wearing receiver gloves to games. That's like drinking out of my 1947 Western Conference champions glass. You just don't. You'll ruin it.
And leave the football pants to the actual football players. Eeesh.
The content of your post is hilariously in contrast to your "tradition" avatar. Just an fyi.
Those jackwagons were trying to start it when we were down 24-21 in the 3rd quarter. You do the wave when we are winning by 14+ (generally)! Not when the team requires you to pay attention and yell.
And I'm not some crotchity old guy. I graduated 2 years ago and it used to be understood when the wave was done. Fortunately, all attempts died cruel deaths today
I'll be one to bitch about the wave. In general it's stupid as hell, and the attempts to start it yesterday were awful and silly
That barely qualifies as the "past"... I therefore consider you part of the problem you mention now.
So because I graduated in the same 5 year window as people who don't understand when to start the wave, I too do not understand when to start the wave? Sound logic there
Perhaps our collective ass size is to blame?
The general consensus seems to be that students like to cram into the lower rows. Also that the problem has gotten worse the last several years.
It was several years ago that the whole stadium was re-numbered giving each seat more room, right?
So, maybe the issue here isn't the attitude or responsibility of the contemporary student but rather the substantial amount of garbage food that we as a society put down our throats.
It is the Midwest. Put down the damn cheese curds and start starving yourselves like everyone in New York and LA!!
You sound like a USC fan
I only told him to drop the cheese curds, not pick up some cocaine.
you wish you could get cheese curds in ann arbor! don't get me wrong, I loved ann arbor. but cheese curds are definitely an advantage of living in madison.
I have never seen the student section full at game time for a noon game against mediocre-to-bad opponent. It has been somewhat better during stretches when the team was better, but that's to be expected.
That said, turning the section into GA (or largely GA if you want to keep the first something rows as reserved seating to reward people for earning priority points for previous attendence, which would encourage attendence at other events) would get people in earlier. Yes, the section is something of a free-for-all, but people who do show up ridiculously late can and do kick people out of their reserved seats.
Yes more shitboomers yelling down in front will make the gameday atmosphere better.
Clearly the university sees and is trying to deal with the problem as they announced the "Hail" program this year. This is the positie reinforcement approach - please show up students and we'll reward you with stuff (no such program existed from 78-81 BTW).
If this doesnt work then they'll go negative and start reducing number of tickets. What's sad is down here in Ohio the OSU students cant even get tickets for every game anymore because demand is so high so the arguement that all programs are like this doesnt wash.
and there are plenty of notably differences with the situation. First off, Ohio has 43k undergrads to our 27k. So yeah the demand in general will be higher.
Most importantly though, Ohio is a no nothing party school where the athletic directors laugh about how the football coach is the real head honcho on campus. I have plenty of friends here at U-M who skip games to spend more time studying. Just a hunch but I don't think that happens often at Ohio. The fact is, a quick google search will show you that MOST schools suffer from the same problem. There are threads just like this one on blogs all over the place. In fact, I found one on a Nebraska blog (with a pic of empty seats in student section included). If it happens in Nebraska, which also has a very storied history and devoted fanbase (and is located in the middle of a giant cornfield), then I really don't see why you people are so shocked it happens here.
HAIL is a really stupid system. It's based on checking in on a smart phone app, which will then allow you say when you got into the stadium. Has anyone ever tried to use any sort of cell phone data in the stadium though? It's absolutely awful, making it pretty much impossible to send check.
I think the ideal way to do it is figure a way to notate each time a student's tickets are scanned, and collect it and see who attends all the games and gets there early. The people who get there earliest and the most often will be given better seats the next season, while the people with poor attendence will be given the worse seats. For example a Senior who attends all their games, and is always half an hour early gets a seat in the first 5 rows or something like that. While a senior who shows up late or only sporadically might be back in the 30th-ish rows the next season, along with the Juniors who show up early. (Obviously it'd haved to be fine tuned for groups and stuff, but thats the jist of it).
And then for the seniors, enter them into a raffle, where a handful of people who always show up on time are then chosen, and then given back the cost of their season tickets or something like that.
I was at a Michigan game where the student section was full 20 minutes before kickoff. Therefore I conclude that the Michigan student section is awesome.
Wisconsin is notorious for their half empty student seating at 11 am kickoffs. I'm looking around today and 80% of the stadium was sitting on its ass even in a close game and you think the students are even remotely responsible for that? Your "real fan" who would be getting the ticket instead would in all likelihood be adding nothing to the atmosphere.
As a student who showed up on time today, I am not interested in what loudmouths who never attended have to say about this, but for the rest, let's acknowledge that noon kickoffs against crap teams is a huge part of it. How many of the graybeards would show for a midnight kickoff against NW? How many left early to beat traffic? Talk about pathetic.
Another issue is the student body is becoming more and more from out of state, meaning they did not grow up watching every game. They get tickets cause it's a social event, not to watch football. It's their decision and I certainly care far more about having a quality academic/social experience the 45 weeks a year there is no football. If the game was last week, well I had 3 tests and 2 papers coming, so I sure would've been late or skipped entirely, and I won't ever be apologizing for that. Nor will I be calling daddy at the ticket office to ask for permission or whatever the hell some are suggesting.
Reducing the number of seats just means the sorority girls who show up after the 1st quarter and leave after the 3rd in a tie game will still be doing that. Likewise for those of us who are simply busy. The freshmen or whatever would be left out and like it or not, this place exists for the students aka future customers. If you think otherwise then your entitlement complex needs a time out. Tickets are already so disgustingly easy to come by for anyone on the waiting list that this argument of giving up our tickets in the corner endzone for a "real fan" is laughable. So we can continue to be divisive about things that don't even matter, or accept that we all have different priorities.
Northwestern is hardly a "crap team." If we're talking about UMass that's one thing, but all Big Ten games are important, and NW was particularly important because they were still alive in our division race entering the game. If people have developed the attitude that even a game against a team that is 7-2 and ranked in the top 25 is crappy, then the problem goes deeper than we thought.
Between the weak turnout now and the thoroughly vigorous turnout when I was a student is that Irishmen are now allowed to vote and football has been invented. Revoke the Irish ballot and return to the days when the only sport was arguing over who had the most siblings die of tuberculosis and we'll be back in business.
Lay off the kids. Take away their seats because thier late to the game? Are you crazy?
I do dig the first come first seated idea though.
who fucking cares if there are some empty seats in the student section. I've never late to a game but I some how, some way, managed to enjoy the game perfectly well without having a meltdown over the open space 3 sections to the right and 75 rows up from where I sit. There were scalpers all over hawking tickets for around $40. It's not like there you couldn't find a ticket if you wanted one.
Personally, I find it much more irritating when people show up late for the games then when they don't show up at all. When people are later there is the annoyance of them trying to squeeze into their seats and whatnot. When people don't show the fans who want to be there get better seats.
It's kinda funny to read people bitching about how the students don't deserves so many seats. They pay a huge chunk of money (12 to 40k a year, depending on residency) to have the opportunity to pay $200+ for season tickets. I'm pretty sure $12,000 would get anyone tickets to every home game. It's not as if the students are buying up all the "cheap" tickets, their seats are anything but cheap. You might as well bitch about the luxury boxes being empty. Student season tickets (along with reputation, educational facilities) are part of the incentive to attract students to pay the 12-40k a year to go to the university. They are a good investment for the University.
That's a nice idea but will never fly. The university has always regarded the athletic department as a cash cow and certainly won't stop now that the budgets are getting tighter. Not only is the AD required to raise all funds on its own, it actually has a terrible deal in which it pays out-of-state tuition for all scholarship athletes. (Even if a kid came from Pioneer HS, our AD has to pay out-of-state tuition for him!) So no, the university is not going to underwrite the cost of student football tickets.
So the BMWs, Lexuses, and late-model SUVs I see parked on campus streets each day must be owned by the local homeless, I guess.
Not a terrible idea. If DB wants to encourage early attendance, a good way would be to announce at the start of next season that they will track arrival time and reduce the student section by the average proportion of late attendees over the season, rounded up to the nearest section amount.
Let them dig their own grave. Let them know they are doing it. Let them feel helpless, frustrated, and horrified as they watch their doom creep toward them with each day of ineptitude, as their peers fail them time and again, as they have failed us all.
Maybe I'm being too dramatic. Still, I think it would work -- it would either encourage attendance, or eliminate the problem a different way if not.
What about alumni Mr Rager? Your arguement seems to rest upon the premise that only current students have the "right" to attend based on their relative financial contribution they are making and everyone else should shut up. But I also paid "stacks and stacks of cash" as did roughtly 425,000 of my closest friends. And I'll bet there are more than one or two of the nearly 1/2 million of Michigan's living alumni that are on the season ticket waiting list.
Want to solve the problem and make it "fair"? Start giving out season tickets to ALUMNI (not just big money donors) on the waiting list in proportion to the number of unused seats per year. That way it's "pure Michigan" getting the seats and the students who dont give a shit about football arent taking tickets away from ex-students who do.
If "this place" means the University of Michigan as a whole, of course you're correct. If "this place" means Michigan Stadium and the football that's played inside of it, you could not be more wrong. The stadium was initially constructed in 1927 with an official capacity of over 70,000, and the addition of temporary bleachers enabled crowds of over 80K, which was a figure many times larger than the student enrollment. In other words, from the very beginning, it was assumed that the large majority of fans inside Michigan stadium were going to be non-students, many if not most of them having no direct connection whatsoever to UM.
and get them to put up the dough for a pre-game FG kicking contest that's only for students. Four participants are chosen at random 30 minutes before kickoff, and are brought down to the field to attempt FGs from the 10, 20, and 30. Winner gets $1000 knocked off their tuition bill.
Since we're on the subject of student seats, I'll repeat one of my favorite "suggestions:" I think the student section should be between the 40's on the side of the field opposite the press box and cameras. If the games are "about the student body," or "to improve student life on campus," why not have the seating arrangement demonstrate that?
If they can't do that, they should at least put senior tickets there, and let students have at least one year of prime seats.
Friends and I go back for a home game every year and sit in the student section. For 6 years running I get there early or on time in the first 30 rows and someone is in our seats already. We always sit as close as we can to our real seats, then in Q2 or Q3 kids show up (usually girls) and demand we get out of "their seats". They go to security and we get moved. So we demand our real seats and then get smushed into an already overflowing row.
You better damn well show up early. These kids stuck it out through 2 coaches and have helped rebuild the best program in the nation!
I haven't seen it mentioned on here, but I think the core of the issue is the difficulty in selling student tickets at this point. Back in the day if you woke up on a Saturday and decided you didn't want to go to the game all you had to do was walk over to the stadium and sell your ticket for whatever you could get out of it.
From what I understand you now have to "validate" the ticket (meaning allow the university to make extra $ on it as well as jump through a bunch of hoops), rather than just sell it to the guy on the corner. Plus there is the whole issue of student IDs, points, etc.
If I were a student I'd rather just eat the cost of the ticket instead of going through the hassle of all those steps, even though you'd prefer for the ticket to be used...
IME the validation stickers are an unreasonable and shameless money-grab. Jacking up the price to artificially equate to the normal tickets does not account for the fact that the experience is not at all equivalent. There are many "issues" with sitting in the student section, such as drunks falling on you, not getting your "real" seats, and general bedlam. Which appeals to some people, but pretty much just us degenerates. I say, let us degenerates congregate in the student section at a lower cost which reflects our lower value as human beings. Do you really want us drunk and belligerent next to your family in the real people sections? I think not.
I would love this idea. Have one area be a student/general admission section. Just like Joe Louis Arena at the GLI. Let us drunks, degenerates make noise, puke, stand, jump around, and swear like sailor.
The student section there is GA. I sat across the aisle from it for the Bellomy game and try we standing the whole time jumping around and having a great time. And like true Nebraska fans, were still polite and good natured with me, a lone blue spot in the sea of red.
I think its pretty simple, the difference is the validating of student tickets, 10- 15 years ago students would just sell their tickets to people, now people have to to pay an extra fee. I sat in the student section many times back in the 90's, students have pushed down, the difference is the simple fact they made it harder for non-students to get into the student section
...the lame-o wal-marts, profs, and alums leave early. I don't see much of a difference.
Yeah, the empty seats paint an unflattering picture, but so does an army of middle agers bolting for their cars to beat traffic in the middle of the 3rd Q against Iowa in 2010, a game in which Tate almost lead a miraculous comeback.
FIFO is a good idea, but reducing the size of the stadium that generates the most noise is not.
If we're going to penalize students for arriving late, shouldn't we penalize 40+ year-olds who leave early?
Also, I've been in favor of having pro-style, individual chairs w/cup holders for years now. It may not make sense in the student section, simply b/c it makes it way more dangerous when trying to rush the field. And whether there are no seats at all or a collection of barca loungers or a Marine battlefied instructional course, students are going to rush the field after a huge win.