Sam Webb podcast this morning: mission critical timing to make Harbaugh decision
Anyone listen to Sam Webb this morning? I know he gets mixed reviews form the MgoBlog posters, but he made a good point this morning.
Sam is pretty well tapped into the recruiting scene, and while he didn't provide many specific names, he gave strong suggestion that there might be a mass exodus of recruits if you don't make a decision on what's happening with Harbaugh before the mid-December early signing period. I think this makes total sense and he has to make a decision and make it public ASAP if he wants to hold together our good class (which would benefit both Harbaugh and the next coach if we decide to go that route). IMO, how you handle this timing will not only determine Harbaugh's fate, but also Manuel's fate as well.
In previous weeks, Sam seemed to think they will extend him, and going into the weekend he thinks that they still will. But he's backing off that statement somewhat.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
Harbaugh should step down after maryland game.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:48 AM ^
If he’s going to step down he should do it right now. Planning on stepping down in the future only hurts us. Announce “resignation” today, coach thru OSU game.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
I agree. As we have seen with transitions, the sooner you make the decision the better. That is even more true this year where recruiting visits are almost non existent. If we are going to salvage anything from this class we need a new coach announced quickly so that he can get started recruiting early.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:48 AM ^
Our top candidate is going to have a conference title game on December 19. Campbell is not going to leave, if he does, until after that game. That's past the early signing date I believe.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
Same with Fickell/Cristobol/Hefley. No coach is leaving his team before regular season is up. Stoops only real option to sign ASAP if you went that route.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
"Announce “resignation” today, coach thru OSU game."
No!
Resign today, then be gone. One of the coordinators can be the interim head coach. This is the situation that Bo declined to be part of when he said "a Michigan man will coach Michigan" - the head coach should have some stake in the immediate future of the team. A coach that has resigned has no stake in the team's future.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
I mean... I doubt it'll make a difference either way.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:34 PM ^
Exactly. Either way we will see large amount leave
November 30th, 2020 at 11:55 AM ^
In the case you're referencing - Bill Freider - the difference is he not only resigned, he announced that he was going to ASU - that's why Bo said he couldn't coach the tournament. If Freider had only resigned, effective end of season, he almost certainly would have been allowed to coach the tournament.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
There is gonna be "bloodshed" regardless of whether he stays or goes. If he stays...some recruits will absolutely leave (especially after what should be an epic beating by OSU). If he leaves, some recruits will bolt not knowing who the coach will be (probably not gonna lock down a hire till after the CFP).
Thus, just rip the bandaid off now and get the pain over now so we can move on.
November 30th, 2020 at 3:00 PM ^
Why would recruits who committed to Harbaugh and staff de-commit if he’s extended? You might be correct, but it doesn’t make sense to me. I understand if they backed off their pledge if he’s no longer the coach, but not if he stays. I think the reason why Worthy is looking around is due to the uncertainty. If Harbaugh is extended, it should be a good thing for the current commits, but what do I know?
November 30th, 2020 at 7:00 PM ^
Your right on the money. We will lose recruits no matter what route we take. Might as well make the move now and start the search. A new coach may not leave his team right away but if he’s announced he will be able to contact recruits and ease some fears. Plus maybe bring a few good ones from his current school with him
November 30th, 2020 at 5:15 PM ^
By this standard Bo was not a Michigan Man when he coached the 1990 Rose Bowl. He had announced his retirement a few weeks earlier. I think he also may have accepted the Detroit Tigers Team President job before that game.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
they should extend him a path to Ford Field......
He wouldn't have to sell his house, uproot his family and move.... sounds like the perfect solution for Michigan and Detroit.....
Not sure why you'd give him a contract extension when his teams have progressively gotten worse over the past 6 seasons.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
If I take off my maize and blue glasses, I'd go:
1) Bieniemy
2) Saleh
3) McDaniels
4) Day
5) Harbaugh
November 30th, 2020 at 10:36 AM ^
Josh McDaniels should not be on anyone's list or anyone from the Patriots besides Bill B. You want to hire another pats coordinator after Patricia?
November 30th, 2020 at 10:45 AM ^
Vrabel and Flores also come from that tree so, fwiw.
Coaching trees are stupid concepts though.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:52 AM ^
Vrabel never coached under Bill B.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:22 AM ^
Josh McDaniels is a much, much, much, much, much better football coach than Matt Patricia. However, I would not want him as our coach. No certainty on recruiting ability. He is a pro guy.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:06 PM ^
No way on McDaniels to Lions, think anyone associated with the 02035 zip code is an automatic disqualifier at this time. However, think he might be good at M. Brother is already on the staff. Family from OH and dad was a major HS coach. Think he'd be a great recruiter. Super Bowl rings would be a great thing to show off to recruits. Plus, he'd likely have "sign off" from an important alum with whom he had a pretty successful working relationship with.
November 30th, 2020 at 5:38 PM ^
Generally I agree, though I'm a Giants fan and have to say Joe Judge is starting to look like he could be an exception
November 30th, 2020 at 10:58 AM ^
Eh, as a Lions fan, I would not be on board with that. Even as much as I wanted Matt Patricia gone, I would not be on board with that. Besides, if there is a backup anywhere near I-94 and The Lodge, he'll never be able to get there anyway.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^
I thought this same thing - i.e. Harbaugh a fit for the Lions because he wouldn't have to uproot his family. But only briefly.
Putting myself in his shoes: If I was hired as head coach to rebuild one of one of the most storied programs in all of college sports history, only to end up as an epic failure turned resignation, would I then take the opportunity to stay and live there after my resignation ... for any job ... would I even consider it?
Hell no. I'd be getting the fuck out of dodge. Maybe he actually is off his rocker, but I think it's crazytalk to think that Harbaugh wants to live anywhere near Ann Arbor if/when he steps down. And if/when he steps down, I don't think it's going to be a mutually amicable situation with the University. He's too firey of a guy to go out peacefully. This is all just my opinion, of course. But I don't see it happening, I think there's maybe a ~2% chance he even wants to stay in Michigan after he's done.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:29 PM ^
I agree with all that except for the part where he's a firey guy. Used to be, yes, but seems more of a valium type guy now, alas. I don't think the NFL is going to want him either. Either way, he's a Gazillionaire now and can retire and live in the lap of luxury somewhere like the US Virgin Islands or somesuch.
December 2nd, 2020 at 10:50 AM ^
Eh, I think he's lost his edge as Michigan's head football coach, for sure. But you can't change a person. I agree to disagree. I think we'll see that fire again when he's back coaching in the NFL.
There are a few certainties in this life: Death, taxes, and as long as Jim Harbaugh is able to, he's coaching football. There are a few NFL fan bases and franchises that would like to have him, and probably already have him on their hires list. I think (some) Lions fans are in that bunch. He'll land on his feet, head, or ass somewhere, my prediction is back in the NFL.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:21 AM ^
Damned if you do and damned if you don't from a recruiting perspective. Keep the class and keep a coach unable to achieve a fraction of what he was hired to do.
The only thing I know is that the Harbaugh experiment has failed to reach expectations for several years now and is in freefall. Why does anyone think that things will change moving forward.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:05 AM ^
We have three 10 win seasons in this period. What were YOUR expectations, and have you checked them for sanity?
November 30th, 2020 at 11:26 AM ^
Do they give out trophies for 10 win seasons?
November 30th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
UMx, depends on what your expectations are. I would assume most alumni are ok with 10 win seasons and competing for championships every 3-4 years as long as UM is teaching young men to be leaders and above reproach as good men. Non alumni fans expectations differ for those that love and cherish their alma mater. OSU, Alabama and Clemson are good examples of football factories and the consequences of bad behavior @ times with players that are just there for a means to get drafted on the first day of the draft.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:17 PM ^
Can you please point out the bad behavior any of those programs have had recently?
November 30th, 2020 at 1:05 PM ^
Shockingly pretentious & unaware even for this board.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:05 PM ^
"Non alumni fans expectations differ for those that love and cherish their alma mater."
Complete bullshit from a snob. You are the person that non-Michigan fans around the country mock. Fuck off.
November 30th, 2020 at 2:26 PM ^
Are we pretending our squad hasn’t had bad apples over the last few years? And that’s just what’s been made public. We’ve had some bad ones the last decade.
November 30th, 2020 at 3:56 PM ^
The poster above this is spot on, these type of comments are why Michigan has that arrogant fanbase bullshit tag outside of Ann Arbor.
My mom went to UM, my dad went to EMU, they met in Ann Arbor and I was raised going to games in the big house as a little pup. I didn't go to UM but fuckin care just as much as any alum and your comment is weak as shit. You sir/mam are apart of the problem no doubt about it.
December 1st, 2020 at 8:34 AM ^
Lol last year I got blasted for say Harbaugh had failed and everyone was lying that they wouldn't admit that they expected more
November 30th, 2020 at 11:26 AM ^
The issue with expectations is that they're made in a static moment, while things constantly change. Maybe it would be acceptable to be 3-3 against MSU if they stayed the power they were under Dantonio. They didn't. Harbaugh could easily be 6-0 but blew each one of his losses in a special way
Three ten win seasons isn't nothing, but when your losses are to the only teams you can't lose against if you want to win a title, it is nothing
November 30th, 2020 at 11:26 AM ^
You must be trolling. No sane person would ever have envisioned that upon his arrival, the gap with Ohio State would not only widen, but become a chasm it will likely take a decade to Bridge, that he would not only be winless against them, but now regularly getting his doors blown off to the point where the game is an absolute embarrassment, and that this nightmare season was even remotely possible. Dude flat out has to go. He is not a fit.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
Logged in to say MGoCarolinaBlue is the only voice of reason on this blog anymore. Everyone else has lost their shit. We're not Ohio State, we don't recruit like them and so we can't expect to beat them. And we're not Auburn, either, because unlike Auburn, we are our rival's most important game every year and so we always get their best game. If you accept this reality, then Harbaugh has been a pretty great coach who has run into some problems with QB recruiting and D-line recruiting and recently defensive secondary recruiting. And these are areas you shore up. You don't blow it up and start over, especially not on the grounds that the current coach is not meeting expectations that are unrealistic to begin with.
I really hope they extend Jim. I hope he coaches here for 20 more seasons and I hope we look back at him someday with great pride as a high-character competitor and someone who loved the game, his players and the school.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:15 PM ^
A lot of great excuses you were able to come up with.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:26 PM ^
It's easy. You just need to be rational.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:32 PM ^
Logged in Holmdel to agree on your take.
next years QB and JJ out recruiting may be the QB we need. I would add that the D coaches leave and bring in a recruiter w chops. Give JH 3 years. Dump Jim and it will take 3 years anyway. Devils advocate here.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:35 PM ^
Wow, we moved on to the next QB savior awfully quick.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:21 PM ^
So then ypu do truly believe that Alabama, Clemson and OSU play football to win championships and Michigan plays football for fun ONLY!
If that is the case, fine, but you can't tell the fan base you are competing for championships and as a byproduct, you can't charge upwards of $150/per seat to watch a program that plays to entertain, but not compete for championships.
Right now, it is a shame and paying Harbaugh $8M per year to entertain is a poor business decision.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:30 PM ^
If you needed me to tell you that Alabama, Clemson and OSU have substantially better odds at titles than everyone else, I don't know what to tell you. We compete for championships, but our chances are not the same as those three. That's pretty obvious. And if Urban Meyer was our coach, it would remain true. Acknowledging that doesn't mean we are just in it for fun and participation trophies.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:27 PM ^
No, we are not OSU and no, we will not recruit like OSU. I don't know that people are expecting us to be on that level every year.
What kills me is to see us look completely unprepared for that game every year. On defense we need to tailor our approach to beating OSU. We have to have a system that will work (in theory) against OSU specifically, and we need to recruit the players that maximize that system. If that means we play a zone defense all year against teams that Don Brown's press man + blitz approach really works for, so be it. I'd rather have the #30 ranked defense all year and go into the OSU game with a prayer than have the #1 defense in the nation going into that game and ...well you've seen what's happened the last few years.
My main issue with this coaching staff is that things have just looked the same for the past 3 years despite struggling against any team we run into that has a pulse, and some that don't. The Gattis hire has made an impact, and I'm actually encouraged by the offense. If our line gets better and our run game picks up, we have the athletes and the system to open up the field. We need a similar overhaul for the defense -- decide on a system that does well against OSU's offense and recruit those types of players. Easier said than done of course, but honestly anything is better than just running it back and seeing what happens.
November 30th, 2020 at 3:29 PM ^
I don't think scheme is the reason that we are getting blown out by OSU. In college football, Jimmies and Joes are more important than Xs and Os.
If you look at what they've done to us, usually it involves the fact that their 3rd best wide receiver is going to be a 5 star athlete with a bright NFL future, and our 3rd best DB is a guy who will have a "nice" but rather unspectacular college football career. And they go to that matchup over and over again.
There is no scheme change that the coaches can make to cover that deficiency that won't open something else up for the opposing offense. If your guys are losing more 1o1 matchups all over the field than they are winning, scheme isn't going to fix that.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:35 PM ^
There is no way in hell that anybody had the expectation of 0-6 versus OSU, 3-3 versus MSU and not even a Big Ten title game appearance when Harbaugh was hired. And no expectating Michigan to have the same level of success of someone like Auburn is not remotely unrealistic. Michigan is not getting Alabama or OSU type talent but they sure as hell are recruiting talent on par or better than alot of teams in the country.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:46 PM ^
We generally outperform Auburn. But not in our rivalry games. Auburn does better in the Iron Bowl than we do in The Game. That is all I was saying about Auburn. There is a reason they do better in the Iron Bowl and there is a reason we can't expect the same record in The Game.
November 30th, 2020 at 6:14 PM ^
You must have only become a college football fan this fall.
Here is a tip to not show everyone you don’t know anything about college football: Alabama’s #1 rival without a doubt is Auburn.
December 1st, 2020 at 4:39 PM ^
Alabama's #1 rival without a doubt is Auburn. Yes. But the Auburn game is *not* Alabama's most important game of the year. It is the LSU game or the Clemson NC game or fill in the blank with whichever is the SEC Championship Game or Playoff opponent. Alabama doesn't (now I am just speculating) reserve practice time every day for scheming against Auburn (like OSU does with us). Alabama treats Auburn like we treat State. A big rival, a very important game, not something we obsess over every day of the year. Ohio State views us differently. And that makes a difference.