September 9th, 2018 at 6:55 PM ^
It's also the play where the RB grabbed Levert's facemask and twisted his head with a shove. Can any of the MGoCoaches or refs explain why this isn't a penalty? Refs never call it but I can't figure out why.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:33 PM ^
I had the same reaction to this play during the game. I understand if a stiff arm by a ball carrier is allowed when they just put their open hand on the face mask, but there's no way it should be legal when their fingers actually grab it and pull.
September 11th, 2018 at 11:20 AM ^
We had a conversation about this on my couch at the time it happened. The announcers were gushing effusively about the stiff-arm, and how many stiff-arms they gave during their playing days, and nobody mentioned the facemask. We all concluded we had no idea what constitutes a facemask.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:22 PM ^
Had the same reaction and I wonder why this is not called. It's just as dangerous as defensive facemasking and it has to be the most obvious. Plus it's almost always intentional. Should be an automatic call.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:55 PM ^
Anyone else see Kinnel blow up the pulling OL?
Love the physicality even though he gave up the edge.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:17 PM ^
I mean he caved that shit in. I'm sure the coaches would take the 10 times out of 10.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^
At first, it look like Kinnel got held too
September 9th, 2018 at 10:33 PM ^
He got tackled outright.
September 9th, 2018 at 10:37 PM ^
I thought it was the intended play by the blocker as it cleared the edge hole for the RB
September 10th, 2018 at 12:05 AM ^
It is never the intent for a pulling lineman to end up on his back because a safety explodes into him.
September 10th, 2018 at 12:05 AM ^
It is never the intent for a pulling lineman to end up on his back because a safety explodes into him.
September 10th, 2018 at 8:27 AM ^
There isn’t much to complain about with the defense over the past 3 years, although some would say safety has been a weakness. One thing for sure, these safeties aren’t afraid of contact (little too much in Metellus’s case)
September 9th, 2018 at 6:57 PM ^
I did see it. Horrible non-call.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:59 PM ^
They had to, else Gary was gonna blow that play up. The word that comes to mind for Rashan Gary is DOMINANT.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:00 PM ^
That's not the word I would use but to each his own.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:16 PM ^
Western legitimately needed that triple team or else Gary would've stopped that for no gain or a TFL. That's dominance.
September 10th, 2018 at 11:02 AM ^
I am a little shocked that the Western kid still made what, 6 yards, given that one player was taking up 3 of his.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:16 PM ^
That's because you're an OSU troll.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:22 PM ^
Garnering the attention of 3 OL on one play screams dominance.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:47 PM ^
You're a troll. I've been quietly watching you a while now. Get the fuck out, please.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:15 PM ^
I thought Kinnel got held too. Michigan just doesn’t get these types if calls. Also Gary got held by 3 guys and still maintained outside leverage until he got tackled. That’s impressive.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:15 PM ^
Well if Rashan can take out 3 lineman every play we are going to destroy every team on the schedule. Man is he a beast or what ?
September 9th, 2018 at 7:15 PM ^
I don't think there is a bias against Michigan. Though I don't doubt for one second that refs get paid off. Pretty much every sport with money has been proven to be corrupt in some way, hell, pretty much anything with big money like CFB has been proven to be corrupt, to think for one second that refs don't get paid off is ridiculous.
Now, do I think that refs got paid off for plays like this? Hell no, not against WMU.
But that brings up the other issue with reffing in CFB. It's so fucking bad. The sport brings in SO MUCH FUCKING MONEY, it's absolutely abhorrent that we can't get full time high caliber reffing crews hired in to do these games.
Just look at the waived off touchdown last year, can't remember if it was against OSU or Wiscy, though I think it was wiscy. Our receiver came down with one foot in bounds and it wasn't even questionable. You could pause the video and see that one foot was clearly in before anything else. Plain as day, no doubt, unquestionably that was a touchdown. And, it gets overturned. How the fuck does that even happen?
It's either a gross level of incompetence that is simply unacceptable at this level of money or it's corruption.
Could you imagine having a millions/year salary and losing your job because you couldn't beat your rival and you had clear as day unquestionable touchdowns being overturned?
September 9th, 2018 at 8:20 PM ^
Agree with all except for the clear and demonstrable anti M bias. 2016 OSU indelibly proved it. Every single Vegas line should include some factor that is directly proportional to the importance of the game for M.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:34 PM ^
Well, what I mean to say is that I don't think there is some sort of weird overarching bias against Michigan via ALL reffing outlets or the league in general. The 2016 OSU game would probably fall more under the corruption/paid off aspect of it.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:49 PM ^
Yes, Papabear, that was DPJ who was robbed of a clear TD. No excuse for refs there
September 9th, 2018 at 7:20 PM ^
Teams do the same thing against other top DEs. Just view it as a sign of respect.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:25 PM ^
i missed all of that on the play. what i keyed on yesterday was the uncalled offensive face mask that should've been called by the refs on the ball carrier, but which the announcers were praising him for a 'great stiff arm'. no, that should've been a penalty, too.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:28 PM ^
Harbaugh saw it and was complaining loudly about it from my vantage.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:31 PM ^
Kinnel gets suplexed too after he destroys the guard.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:32 PM ^
refs are only the puppets of the marionettist. 'Shame really
September 9th, 2018 at 7:33 PM ^
I mean, holding would be a ticky tac call right there for me. The dude was tripped teamed and got pancaked, literally nothing he can do about it
September 9th, 2018 at 8:36 PM ^
It's not a ticky call at all, he was nearly right in between the 3 linemen holding him and the WMU RB. If he doesn't get held he probably stops that play after only a yard or two.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:37 PM ^
You may wish to relook at the left arm of one of the OL which is around Gary's waist-from behind.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:52 PM ^
He is the edge defender. If he is not held, he can slow down the play or push it in the backfield enough so that it doesn't get a first down. That's exactly when you call holding.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:48 PM ^
Was initially disappointed in our relatively low number of sacks for the game. In watching the replay, WMU was using five linemen and two backs to block on many of their pass plays, and half the time the QB still had to rush his throw.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:38 PM ^
Winnovich said they pretty much stayed in some variant of max protect for almost the whole game.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:07 PM ^
Winovich addressed this in his postgame comments too. Talk about how they max protected and chipped with RBs, which is gonna minimize the pass rush counting stats, but "you saw the overall result" (a team that got held to the low 200s in total yardage and scored 3 points).
September 9th, 2018 at 8:22 PM ^
They got the first down so good job WMU I guess.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:32 PM ^
What's impressive about this? It was a first down for Western. Gary still needs to have more of an impact on getting to the QB against the MSUs, Wisconsin's, and OSUs. He was the top ranked recruit in the country.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^
"bag of dicks, dinner for one!."
September 9th, 2018 at 9:33 PM ^
If Gary is eating up 3 blockers on every play then he is doing his job and then some, after that it's about the secondary making plays and/or being put in the correct place to make plays.
If Gary can eat up 3 blockers on every play we can leave a spy on the QB if necessary and STILL have an extra defender on every play. There isn't a defensive coach in the world who would turn down that opportunity.
The problem isn't Gary, it's 1) RPS and 2) A HUGE FUCKING HOLDING PENALTY!
September 9th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^
The hold on Kinnel during that play was more egregious, and we would've stopped them for a long time had it not occurred.
September 9th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
You might be right. Kinnel was heading for a TFL, and the O Lineman pulls him away from doing it.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:44 PM ^
I haven't read all the comments yet but I'm sure someone else probably already pointed out that they got away with a pretty blatantly obvious facemask from Bellomy.
Edit: Literally the first comment. Hahaha
September 9th, 2018 at 9:54 PM ^
I think that either Western goes all in on Gary basically or the play was DOA, but the fact that they had to do this tells you how dominant Gary can be, I believe.
September 9th, 2018 at 10:24 PM ^
I saw that live and yelled. On replay, would like to have seen Hill come down on the edge faster. He didn't need to hang back for the cut because he had tons of help flowing.
September 9th, 2018 at 11:01 PM ^
Hopefully these early season mistakes will be corrected by time the big part of the schedule comes.
September 9th, 2018 at 10:45 PM ^
I always find the holding penalty interesting in that the gap between the rulebook and as called on the field is so immense. The rulebook says " The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull, hook, clamp or encircle in any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent.", which now occurs on about every play. I don't know where this notion of it need to be egregious enough to affect the play to be called a penalty came from, or the idea that the defensive player needs to demonstrate they are being held by trying to disengage.
I will say that I think this is an area where the Michigan O-line plays too conservative. I think we hold less than other teams, and operate at a disadvantage because of it.
September 10th, 2018 at 9:09 AM ^
Possibly from a technical standpoint, however Michigan gets called for little Tick Tac holding calls when possible, so playing "up to the level of our competition" usually results in more holding calls vs Michigan and that's about it. There was a pretty good diary about this last year, and since then we've seen more of the same.