Overtime by John U Bacon Discussion Thread

Submitted by Michwolve21 on September 3rd, 2019 at 7:48 AM

The book hit my kindle at 11 PM central last night. Have read a very little bit, but used the search function on the kindle to scan the book for various topics.

Disappointed to see that Pep Hamilton is only mentioned twice in the book. Seems that John was a bit afraid to properly hold him accountable. Disappointing. The dude was the OC, got to be more than two passing mentions if you’re telling the full story of the season

JFW

September 3rd, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^

Brilliant. 

 

It's funny. I was listening to Isiah Hole address the booing issues and that started a discussion with my brother about how we now seem to have a permanent discontented portion of the fan base. to a person part of that caction, it seems that unless we field a team that has a defense that holds every other team to under 100 yards and no points while scoring 49 against the other team, using the schemes the person wants, that person will be unhappy. 

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gremlin3

September 3rd, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^

I think those people are quite rare.  It seems like there are more than there are b/c when, for example, Lloyd and Hoke were here, those that want to spread it out and score a ton, boo.  When Rich Rod was here, those that want ball control and smashmouth, boo.  Therefore, there is always booing and the largely incorrect conclusion is that since there's always booing, those are the same people are they are never happy.

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JFW

September 3rd, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^

Maybe. But I know people personally that haven't been happy no matter who ran things. Carr was too conservative. Rich Rod didn't respect tradition. Hoke was too clappy. Harbaugh can't win the big one. Records don't matter. Improvement doesn't matter. I just stopped talking football with them. 

For the record... I'm of the opinion that booing these kids is pretty damned stupid. And even if you aren't the perpetual discontent crowd, going to a football game and booing Shea because you like McCaffery is moronic. But that's just my opinion. 

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MGoFoam

September 3rd, 2019 at 11:45 AM ^

The first time I ever noticed Michigan being roundly booed at Michigan Stadium was the 2008 Wisconsin game (which we eventually won). Having fumbled about five times in the first half and looked mostly inept, the team was booed off the field at halftime. Other than scattered episodes of things like fans being unhappy about not going for it on 4th down, I don't think I had ever heard our stadium boo our team.

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crg

September 3rd, 2019 at 6:50 PM ^

I was present for booing during some of Carr's games (though did not partake).

However, I will say it is possible to boo at the coaching decisions and not at the players themselves.  Case in point: the only time I ever booed the team's performance was at the Neb game in 2013.  For those that don't recall (or choose not to, which is understandable), this was a very winnable game against a faltering Mike Riley led squad.  The scouting report suggested the Neb D was vulnerable to the run game, so Al Borges tried to run down the middle early and often... it didn't work.  Later in the game he threw in a few quick pass plays here and there... which worked surprisingly well and moved the ball.  So, in the second half with this information in hand he proceeds to... almost exclusively run the ball up the middle (which still did not work).  This was almost literally like watching a loved one bash their head into a brick wall, convinced that this plan is logically sound while oblivious to the permanent damage being inflicted to their face and skull.

The team finished with -21 rushing yards on 36 attempts that day.  The crowd booed.  I booed.  Not at the players, who put everything out there (poor damned Devin Gardener among them), but at the men being paid millions of dollars to lead them, supposedly being experts in their professions, yet clearly not capable of reacting properly to events on the field.

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Don

September 3rd, 2019 at 7:46 PM ^

I understand your frustration with the coaching—I was frequently extremely frustrated with our coaching all through the ‘70s—but you’re completely and thoroughly deluding yourself if you think the players can somehow tell that crg up in Section 23, row 55 is booing Al Borges and not them and their teammates. 

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crg

September 4th, 2019 at 9:25 AM ^

While you are correct in saying that a more explicit crowd reaction would have been better (e.g. a "Fire Borges!" chant), I do believe that the players are somewhat aware of the crowd's intentions - they can hear individuals sitting nearer to them with more specific comments easier (and they are aware of online content and other avenues of commentary - I am 100% certain that, by Nov of that year, they all knew that the fan base was unhappy with Borges).

However, yelling out "I disagree with your offensive philosophy and believe you should pursue alternative staffing arrangements!" from the upper seats doesn't exactly carry well to the ground level - which could be partly why the crowd instead chose the time-tested "boo" method.

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gremlin3

September 5th, 2019 at 10:38 AM ^

You were extremely frustrated with the coaching in the 70s?!?  Geez, talk about unrealistic expectations.  

Michigan Football in the 1970s:

  • 8 B1G titles
  • 9 straight top 10 finishes, 4 top 5 finishes
  • 83.5% winning pct.
  • 4 Rose Bowls, 1 Orange Bowl (that's without including the 1970, '72, '73, and '74 teams that went a combined 40-3-1 and didn't play in a Bowl game!)

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umich1

September 3rd, 2019 at 8:12 AM ^

If you are reading the book strictly for dirt, having read the whole thing, I'd suggest you look elsewhere.

If you are reading the book for feel-good stories on everything the team accomplished outside of football; it is a great read.  It paints a great picture of the type of competitor Harbaugh is and the leadership that remains on the team.

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JDeanAuthor

September 3rd, 2019 at 5:34 PM ^

I don't fully disagree with that, but that doesn't mean what he's reporting isn't true.

For example, in this book Three and Out, he documents that Rich Rod had problems from the moment he stepped on campus at AA, and that not all of those problems were of his own making.  Since then, I've spoken to people with connections to others who were on Rich Rod's staff, and they've said the same thing: Rich Rod didn't help things at times while he was here, but established "Michigan men" (as it was put) didn't exactly help him out either.

Full disclosure about Rich Rod: I'm glad the man is gone, especially in light of his unethical behavior at Arizona, as I'm sure it had the potential to happen here.  But at the same time, people at Michigan did do things to hamper his program (especially Dave Brandon, btw, who essentially undermined him while talking to the players before the Miss State game).  I'd never want him back, but I also know there was more to the whole fiasco than simply Rich Rod himself.

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AreYouNew

September 3rd, 2019 at 5:57 PM ^

One of the things from that book that sticks in my mind is when Greg Frey told JUB that he had always heard great things about Lloyd Carr but he had been at Michigan for more than two years at that point and STILL hadn't met him. Carr had some kind of associate AD title at the time. He wouldn't make the time to even say hello to the new coaches in his own sport? Petty AF.

 

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LeCheezus

September 3rd, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^

Dude, PEP HAMILTON WAS NOT THE OC AT ANY POINT WHILE AT MICHIGAN.  GATTIS IS THE FIRST COACH WITH THE "OC" TITLE UNDER HARBAUGH.

I know the passing game wasn't the greatest last year and you can put as much of that on Pep as you want, but everyone's general attitude of attributing all success (BRING BACK JEDD!) or failure (PEP WAS THE WORST!) to one guy when the offense was a collaborative effort...I don't know what to tell you.  Hell, I've seen multiple posts already about last Saturday's game that basically said all the worst parts of the offense (2 QB stuff) was all Harbaugh or had to be Harbaugh influence.

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