OT: Why Whisenhunt turned down the Lions (rumor)
I was listening to Evan & Phillips on MadDog radio this morning and they spent quite a bit of time discussing the Lions coaching situation. Notwithstanding their claim that the people happiest with the Caldwell hire were Packers, Bears & Viking fans I found the reasons they gave on why Whisenhunt turned down the Lions interesting.
According to them, they have heard from two independent sources that Whisenhunt did not join the Lions for two reasons:
1. The Titans offered him 1MM more per year
2. The Lions had Stafford sit in on the interview which made him VERY uncomfortable
I don't know which one is worse (if true). That the Lions low-balled their #1 choice and didn't leave the door open for further negotiation or that they decided to let a player have a say in the selection of the coach. I'm sure behind the scenes that input goes on everywhere but to be brazen enough to have the QB sit in on the interview (allegedly) would send a very powerful message to the HC candidate on who is working at the pleasure of who. And Whisenhunt (allegedly) was not comfortable at all with a structure that had him, in essence, reporting to one of his players.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
Whisenhunt had previously lived and/or coached in Nashville, right?
I think some othe radio show metioned this briefly.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:15 PM ^
He coached at Vandy, which is in Nashville,
January 15th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
Ken Whisenhunt was on staff at Vanderbilt as the special teams coach (I believe that's right) for a couple seasons on the mid-90s, so he has some familiarity with the area anyway. Pride Of Detroit also posted some material which would indicate that Whisenhunt may also have been concerned about the level of competition in the NFC North (even if it was injury-plauged this past year to some extent) and perhaps wanted to coach in a more wide-open division.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
a big commitment in Stafford, I don't see the problem in Stafford having input in a coaching search. He is essentially your highest paid employee who will be affected the most.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^
I agree he should have input. AFTER the interview and behind closed doors. Putting him at the table tells Whisenhunt that Stafford is his boss, not the other way around.
Like I said in the thread - they had never heard of a situation where a player actually attended the formal interview.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
as if this isn't completely a new thing when it comes to a coaching search, esp in the NFL. I hope Whisenhunt wasn't completely thrown off by it. I can't imagine its the last time something like that would happen.
And none of us were in the room, so there's no telling what was said regarding Stafford's presence in the room. It could have been "Hey, Matt's here just to ensure to us, the team leadership, that you two are on the same page with regards to the offense."
But all of this is truly academic, isn't it? I mean...good discussion regardless. And a good opportunity to throw more darts at the juggernaut known as The Detroit Lions.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
at my work they let anybody participate in interviews for new hires. doesnt mean you are going to be their boss...
January 15th, 2014 at 12:21 PM ^
I keeed, I keeeed.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
Well sure they do. You're a hipster and hipster companies would do such things.
And a cat.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:26 PM ^
at best, without Calvin he would have already been traded because his true ability would have been showcased...Stafford is something like 1-23 against teams who finished with winning records...if I were Wisenhunt I would have laughed at Stafford in the interview and left immediately
January 15th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
defense blew several of those games. See the 12' Turkey Day game vs Texans, the final game of 2011 vs Green Bay, the Cardinals game this past season...I'm positive there's more too. Stafford needs to improve there is no doubt. But the story is more complex than 'Stafford is mediocre".
January 15th, 2014 at 12:52 PM ^
and i agree that the Lions defense definitely holds blame for some of those losses, no doubt about that...but Stafford has been highly mediocre, and without Calvin bailing him out and making circus catches Stafford's numbers would be anywhere from 800-1,000 yards less per year...the fact of the matter is that he throws a lot of INT's (19) on a team loaded with offensive weapons and fumbled the ball 12 times...for him to bee sitting in on any interview is a joke, and obviously one that Wisenhunt didn't want to waste his time on and nobody can blame him
January 15th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^
was definitely good when he wasn't injured...the young kid from Oklahoma has a lot of promise and Fauria and the other Geogia kid were both serviceable...tack them onto a good Reggie Bush (minus a few fumbles) and a solid Joique Bell and I would say that is a failry loaded team with plenty of serviceable targets for Stafford to throw at (or in his case, throw over or behind them)
January 15th, 2014 at 3:23 PM ^
If that is the WR you're referring to, then . . . I don't know, man. He's been pretty bad. And I was a fan of the draft pick.
January 15th, 2014 at 4:48 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
He is also the reason why Detroit isn't in the playoffs. He turns the ball over and, reportedly, has refused to consider working with a QB guru to change how he does things. Whoever the new coach is has to address Stafford's turnovers and hold him accountable. There is no doubt that the Lions are committed to Stafford and will rise and fall with his performance. This is Job 1 (Ford pun intended) for the new coach. Having Stafford in the interview strongly suggests that the organization views Stafford as untouchable and free to play anyway he feels like.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
I tend to think this stuf comes down to one of two things:
1. Money
2. Winning
I think the Lions offer the best chance of actually winning (despite the sad history), so to me if the 1M gap is real - nuff said.
Most guys don't get too many chances at head coach (usually for good reason, uh oh): makes sense to maximize what you're getting out of your big shot.
January 15th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
We should have hired Chudzinski.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:15 PM ^
and there is no need to look for more.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
Yeah, I don't get the Stafford thing. Unless Stafford was actually asking questions and giving some impression that we had a say in the matter, why would it matter if Stafford was there?
Considering any coach of the Lions is going to be tied directly to how Stafford does over the next 5 years, I'd think a "Quarterback guru" like Wisenhunt would welcome the opportunity to talk to Stafford and start building a relationship. It's not like Stafford is going anywhere any time soon.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/15/matt-leinart-warner-not…
January 15th, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
Since I'm pretty sure Leinart had even less to do with their going to the superbowl than the lowest paid trainer on the team.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
Not sure why Stafford sitting in would be a big issue. He is the franchise QB and we've all seen what happens when a head coach and QB don't see eye-to-eye. If it were Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, etc. no one would make a big deal but because its Stafford thats a problem
January 15th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^
Stafford was at the interview and has input into the decision. Maybe now that he has met Stafford, Whis thinks Stafford is a jerk and/or not committed to changing/learning/improving.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
From what I've heard, the Stafford situation was way over blown. Basically, one of the top priorities in the coaching search was to find someone who could further develop Stafford (hence Caldwell, who was Manning's coach from 2002-2011). To that end, Stafford was around during the interview phase but that he wasn't part of the actual interview process. He was basically there to meet Whisenhunt and that was about it.
Other people have pointed out myriad other reasons why Whisenhunt opted for Tennessee (e.g., money, defense, personnel decisions, familiarity with Nashville). This sounds like sports talk radio drumming up controversy over nothing.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
#2 is worse. And it is not even close
January 15th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
have a lot of the elements in place, and a coach who has the approval of his players may be a good interim approach. It's wierd to me that a few people say a coach isn't sexy, then 1 million people repeat it, and sober analysis sort of dies on the vine. Other than this past year his track record looks quite good; not everyone succeeds everywhere they go. See Abe Lincoln.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:44 PM ^
He was the Colts OC from Manning's rookie year(1998) to 2008. Then he was the co-coordinator with Caldwell.
This same Tom Moore made Scott Mitchell(!)into a 4,000 yd, 35 TD QB and had the Lions leading the league in offense in 1995.
Meanwhile Jim Caldwell was flailing about in Winston Salem. He then came to the Colts in Manning's 5th season, by which time Manning was an already among the top three QB's in the game.Caldwell did help Manning that is true. But the Colts offense was Tom Moore's.
Jim Caldwell is nothing more than a position coach. This is Rod Marinelli all over again.
January 15th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 5:58 PM ^
Manning and Dungy both expressed enthusiasm over the hire.
I think most teams are insanely conservative in their hiring, kill themselves by looking for people with a rep rather than fresh talent from the ranks. But I think that the extreme negativity over the hire is fan flapjaw.
EDIT: Sounds like, as with Hoke, he nailed the press conference. I'm impressed. Team is enthused, too. You can pretty much book that they'll improve by a couple games next year. After that will come the real test.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^
I think that he can be a figure head coach-- a Tony Dungy lite, if you will. Indy players seemed to love him when he was there, and he never had a D-Coordinator worth much. He'll need a good D-coordinator, but otherwise he might not be too bad as the HC.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:46 PM ^
You know that Shane Morris hired Nuss, right?
January 15th, 2014 at 12:45 PM ^
The thing about the Lions too is that while they have the talent to make the playoffs, nobody sees them as a consistent SB threat. At least with the Titans, you could bottom them out and rebuild; in Detroit, you are locked into a couple of guys for years and with little cap flexibility. So unless you really think Stafford, Suh, and Megatron and a bunch of decent players is enough to win you a title, I can see why you'd at least roll the dice with a less "set" team.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
as a coach, you can never go wrong doing everything you can to AVOID the Detroit Lions.
Detroit is a coaching graveyard. Deciding to come coach here is usually the last coaching decision you ever make. That might have weighed on Whisenhunt's mind a bit too.
If someone other than Detroit is offering you MORE money, it seems like a pretty easy decision, even with the better current roster in Detroit.
January 15th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
(fwiw) on his show, he said Stafford sat in on Caldwell's interview at Caldwell's request
it's certainly possible Stafford sat in on others, but Shep was pretty adamant there was a misconception going around about that
January 15th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^
I get that $1 million isn't much in the grand scheme of things and if you identify someone as a primary target then you should make them a financial priority. That being said, $1 million per year isn't chump change and you can't offer a blank check so that does not make nearly as upset as apparent influence that Stafford had on the hire.
If Stafford really had that kind of influence on the coaching search then the franchise is truly doomed. Stafford was a huge part of the problem and the only way the next coach succeeds if they get Stafford to improve in every single way.
Letting the inmates run the asylum is usually not the best way to instill the discipline necessary to build a winning culture.
January 15th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
That's an improvement right there, imho. I'm willing to give Caldwell a chance to prove himself in Detroit.
It is absolutely insane the track record of HC's for the Lions who have gone on to do absolutely nothing.
Gary Moeller was the last HC to have a winning record. Of course, he was fired by Matt Millen who hired Marty Mornihihninigngngngngwig.
January 15th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
Small sample size. I don't think it's fair to judge a coach based on 7 games. Plenty of teams start hot and cool down by the end of the season. This season's Lions *cough* rings a bell. Alternately, plenty of teams start cold and build momentum towards the end. Hell, how many times have we seen teams win the superbowl that didn't have impressive season records? Ravens and Giants as of recent come to mind. Packers as well.
To make a judgement on half a season is a little far fetched.
January 15th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
Agreed to a point but historically it plays out if you get fired from the Lions, doesn't really matter who you are, it's a HC career execution sentence. I think most of that is the stigma that surrounds the team sadly.
January 15th, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^
until I watched the Broncos game. The Whiz decided in all his might to run against the Broncos. Once they got way down (and had produced something like 70 yards of offense) they started throwing and were unstoppable. Simply put, Whiz beat the Chargers, not Denver.
So I say: to hell with him, and looking forward to him getting fired in 3 or 4 years when Tennessee continues to suck.
January 15th, 2014 at 1:14 PM ^
So...is Matt Stafford the Assistant General Manager of the Lions? He may as well be. What Stafford is on the field, is the King of Garbage Yards. He is a tremendously overrated player, who is lazy in his mechanics and not willing to put the work in to change them. I dont blame Whiz for running away from the Lions mess.