OT: Evolving Ideas on Covid: Brought to you by: Dr. Johnny Banannas and Dr. I P Freely.

Submitted by Creedence Tapes on October 14th, 2020 at 12:46 PM

A few days ago, someone wrote a post titled "Evolving Ideas on Covid treatment", and quoted The Great Barrington Declaration, which was an open letter arguing to essentially "just say fuck it" on Covid mitigation strategies in order to reach herd immunity. This letter, with a rather political sounding name (Great!, Declaration!), was no doubt designed to draw maximum attention from the Covidiots out, Covidtiot in chief among them, who just want to go back to business as usual.

Not only have their ideas been widely debunked by a wide majority of epidemiologists, but now it turns out that some of the purported 15,000 signatures from scientists and medical practitioners, might not really be from actual scientists or medical experts at all. According to a Sky News article, there are dozens of fake names on the list of medical signatories, including Dr. Johhny Bananas, Dr. Person Fakename, Dr. I. P. Freely, Dr Dominic Cummings PhD Durham "Univercity". In addition they say, there are numerous homeopaths, and over 100 therapists, including physical therapists, massage therapists, and my favorite, a Mongolian Khoomii Singer who considers himself a "theraputic sound practitioner". Although anyone on the internet can sign the list, and claim that they are a medical expert, the authors are still using the signatures they gather to claim support for their ideas, which as I said before, have been widely debunked. 
 

You can check out the full article here: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

Robbie Moore

October 14th, 2020 at 5:36 PM ^

That was me who posted a few days ago. I do not understand how regular people can be so damn certain about anything to do with this highly politicized disease. I posted the Barrington thing because it was interesting. It was a different take supported by a number of experts and evidently by a lot of charlatans. But charlatans signing on for the ride does not ipso facto destroy the argument. I never said I believe the Barrington statement to be the truth. I'm not qualified. I merely found it interesting.

For the record before people call me a covidiot, I wear a mask. I socially distance. I do not eat in restaurants or frequent bars. And I act that way because I don't know all the facts and I care about my health and the health of those around me. But nobody, including medical experts, politicians, media talking heads and blog posters has a firm grasp on exactly what the right social policies should be.  

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Wendyk5

October 14th, 2020 at 8:38 PM ^

I just listened to Ashish Jha, who is the Dean of Brown University's School of Public Health in a fairly long interview on POTUS radio. His take on the Barrington thing was this: no self-respecting doctor would advocate for herd immunity during a pandemic. Herd immunity only works when there is already a vaccine. He also said the few scientists who subscribe to this idea are for whatever reason just trying to get attention. Not trying to slam you for posting this, it was just interesting timing that I heard this doctor address this very issue. 

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BoFan

October 14th, 2020 at 9:23 PM ^


I agree with the idea to post and consider interesting opposing points of view.   And I respect your speaking up here in the face of names like Dr I.P. Freely  

The problem with your original post was that there were plenty of red flags that signaled that the report was completely political. 

The solution is to take on the responsibility of doing some digging before posting. You need to know what to dig for. 

This is the same problem with social media where people share outrageous fake news that is written to appear real.  Don’t share it if you can’t evaluate the source. 

Joined: 03/09/2012

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MGoStretch

October 14th, 2020 at 3:57 PM ^

Speaking of urologists with notable names.  Many, many years ago, I had to see one after getting kicked in the business playing soccer.  What was his first name? Harm. What was his last name? Kraai. That’s right, the urologist’s name was pronounced Harm Cry.  He seemed legit though, he probably wouldn’t sign that nonsense.

https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/harm-kraai-dda4e5f8-17f0-4ecb-8941-98bcec8804dd-overview

(everything was/is fine, thanks for your concern :-)

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mgokev

October 14th, 2020 at 5:40 PM ^

I agree with masks and following science. I'm just trying to be less divisive lately and call out unnecessary ad hominems. I've personally reached an overwhelming point of discouragement in how people treat each other. But yeah, go blue and all that. 

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Creedence Tapes

October 14th, 2020 at 1:20 PM ^

I agree with you, but I wasn't sure how to describe the people that refuse to acknowledge that science is a thing, vs the people that just disagree on which methods are best in managing covid. There should be room for disagreement, but it has to be based on actual science, not just gut feelings and misinformation.

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B-Nut-GoBlue

October 14th, 2020 at 5:00 PM ^

My goodness

Masks are a science.  Made and utilized eons ago because they, uh, were found to protect our respiratory systems.  They're only a political notion due to the lack of leadership and complete goons inhabiting these divisive states of america.

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MZNBLUE

October 14th, 2020 at 9:02 PM ^

Right - which is why there is only one type of mask that protects against everything ...

It's absolutely true that "follow the science" has become a mantra, mostly brayed by people who have no clue about science but want to feel/sound smart, rather than good advice.  We are also seeing that very few people understand how data modeling works and it's relationship to science.  We've known since very early on that the masks that the vast majority of people are wearing cannot stop the virus - that is the actual science part of this - the virus passes through those masks.

Put it this way - if two people are sitting next to each other for a good amount of time, interacting/speaking with each other, both with typical masks on and one has COVID-19, it is almost a 100% guarantee that the other person will be exposed to COVID-19.  That does not necessarily mean that the other person will become infected and/or if infected they will be symptomatic, but they will very likely be exposed.

About the only thing the typical masks protect from is if a mask wearer is experiencing above average respiration - coughing, sneezing, heavy exercise, etc - the actual respiration outside the mask will be reduced so it is not spread as far.

If we're honest with ourselves (unlikely to happen) we will look back on this and question why sound science and judgment was fairly quickly replaced by feel-good efforts and mandates with little or no evidence to support the changes.  Honesty would also require that we examine how many people were needlessly placed on ventilators, which very likely hastened their deaths and/or long term complications.

Keep this in mind every time our (Michigan) governor states that we know that what we've been doing is working.  Since we don't have control groups and we largely operated on the honor system, there is literally no way to know this.  We do know that the data does not support her assertions since we had peaked in early April before the most stringent mandates took effect and hardly anyone was wearing a mask or social distancing when they were out and around.

I honestly believe that a lot of people would be very surprised to find that many, many people are largely back to operating as normal with few precautions and are not having issues.

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clown question

October 15th, 2020 at 10:08 AM ^

As a someone with a PhD in a medical related field, this post 1) makes me very sad and 2) is full of misinformation. You are attacking straw man arguments left and right ("masks don't work if you sit directly by someone for hours", "people don't know data modelling therefore we shouldn't do anything", "there are no controls therefore we can't take any actions"). Add in inaccuracies about reality "the only thing the typical masks protect from is if a mask wearer is experiencing above average respiration", "people were needlessly placed on ventilators, which very likely hastened their deaths and/or long term complications" and I'm frankly depressed.

This isn't some scam. 

 

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MZNBLUE

October 15th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^

It's cute to say that this makes you sad as that largely evades a rational response.  These are not straw man arguments at all - this is real life.

Which of my points are your specifically able to refute? 

I never stated that we should do nothing?  Your statement of such really gives you away as actually proposing your own straw man argument - quite common among the fear mongers.

Do you have evidence that supports the usage of masks to slow the spread? 

Why did we stop rushing people onto ventilators?

In Michigan, why did we peak in early April, prior to any widespread mask mandate, and steadily decline absence any evidence of actual mask usage?

Why did experts change so quickly from non-surgical masks are useless to everyone should be wearing masks?  I read a Mayo Clinic article today regarding mask effectiveness and at best their statements are coy.  Keep in mind I have the utmost respect for Mayo Clinic so this is not an attack on that institution.  Below are clips from the article I link below.  The qualification without any indication of how effective masks are is unacceptable.  The notion that medical experts did not know that the virus could be spread absence symptoms defies not only logic but flies in the face of actual medial science.

Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

 

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bluewings

October 14th, 2020 at 1:18 PM ^

Of course some of the names are fake. They got the names from people submitting them from the internet! 
Go look at online polls like bitbull, Taylor Swift, or naming Apple Mountain Dew (nsfw) 

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