Tough loss. Fuck this year in Michigan sports.
to play football, not to play trumpet
Snowflakes thread? I see what you did there.
Time to stop considering GRIII a star. Disappeared. Again.
Had 20 points against the #1 team in the country. Quiet second half but wouldn't have been in the game without him. I'm very critical of him normally but he played pretty well today.
Maybe I should change my post to say he went quiet, rather than disappeared. Would save me some down votes!
Hey, its a game of two halves. UM needs him to play the way he did in the first half for the entire game. Maybe disappeared is to harsh, but after a loss when you had the lead for most of the game, maybe not. He has struggle all year so far, and played much better overall today. But, UM needs him to improve if they are going to try and get back to an elite level. This will be a different team as March approaches.
strong rebounders. He is a shooters coach and against top teams unless his shooters are hot he will find it diffcult to win. Arizona had 9 offensive rebounds in the first half and only got two points from those rebounds. In the second half, they scored much better off their rebounds.
The great Marquette coach said to win NC you need an aircraft carrier in the center. Right now McGarry caanot do it on his own.
Rebounding bothers me too. I understand it's not a big part of how Coach Beilein coaches, but gosh darn it hurt to see Arizona getting 2nd and 3rd and 4th chances and UM hardly ever did! We were lucky they weren't making those shots in the first half, we could have been down by 10 at least at the half.
The troubling thing about GRIII is when things aren't going his way on offense, like in the second half today, there's a noticeable decline in the effort on defense. There were several instances in the second half when he looked disinterested on the defensive side of the floor- especially noticeable with his blocking out.
That's not really how it works. LeVert and Stauskas took over the offense in the second half. There's only one ball to go around and GR3 doesn't get to start the offense.
GRIII put up 20 on a quality opponent and helped put Michigan in a position to win. Not any one player's fault.
That sort of reasoning is ridiculous.
Stay another year.
Beilein killed us by never playing McGary and Horford together. Just a terrible move when you're getting KILLED on the boards and the other team is making an effort to get the ball inside.
Stauskas killed us by trying to be the hero every time he touched the ball in the last 2 minutes.
Duke, I can take...that was on the road, the refs were awful, we looked like deer in the headlights.
We should've won this game, no question.
well u can because Caris can play the point in stretches with Nik and GR3 on the wings. But that's just not how Beilein wants to play
I'm not saying u should play them together, I said you could.
and honestly since McGary plays majority of the time on the perimeter, It's almost like we are playing no bigs. our rebounding issue is because we are always crashing the boards from the perimeter. we very rarely have a big station near the basket battling for boards. u can't box out if your flying in from the perimeter to rebound
I really think their best possible lineup is
I think they would be fantastic on defense. LaVert and Stauskas tend to be liabilities on defense sometimes but they are almost always tasked with guarding bigger players. I think in this lineup we would be great defensively, great on the boards, and still have enough ballhandling and passing at 1-4 positions to have an efficient offense.
Albrecht is the perfect 6th man also. He thrives in big moments, brings great energy off the bench, and he can manage a lead, manage the shot clock, etc.
I can't really be upset with this team, they are young and will just get better throughout the year. Heck they already looked significantly improved from the Puerto Rico tournament. Just hate the foul on McGary, but that was a legitimate number one team.
this was a tremendous game to watch. Both teams very classy, hard working kids. Both coaches as well. It's always tough to lose, especially a game that you could have won. But, I'm proud of my Michigan team and love to watch them play, win or lose. I love the way Beilein coaches, and isn't a loud mouth or foul mouth. Very proud, hurts to lose, very proud.
This was so well said. Beilein's demeanor is great. More and more kids are seeing this, too. That and his ability to develop players will keep paying dividends.
I still think we should have/could have won, but I was proud of how the team played and I hope they learn some lessons from this game.
I am so sick of this shit. Period.
This year sucks so badly.
We just lost to the number 1 team, at Duke, against what's going to be a top 10 team Iowa State at their place, and a kinda bad loss against Charlotte... I think we'll be fine headed into B1G play.
Paps, we have ZERO good non-conference wins. If you're a decent team, you don't choke away 11 point leads at home....
Moral victory, after moral victory, after moral victory...
Without a quality run in the B1G and a semi-final appearance (at minimum) we're looking at a 9 seed.
You guys overreact way too much. It has been frustrating but we will get things figured out. SOS will be strong and a team that finishes well moves way up. We have home games against good teams to finish out. Lot of season to go.
Not disagreeing with you that there is a lot of season to go and I don't perceive myself among the torch and pitchfork set. Realistically, Michigan's best non-con win is Florida State to this point so without a quality performance through the B1G sched would probably lead to this type of seed.
I guess we could call Florida State a good win? Maybe? I don't know...
When Michigan came out with no good OOC wins in the year they didn't make the tournament under Bielien when they had Manny Harris and Sims, it was obvious they were undersized and overmatched. I don't get the same feel of the team this year. I think the pieces are there, and as good a coach Bielien is, (finally a Michigan coach with a track record we can trust) I think we will rebound with a nice win over Standford, and set our sights on Big Ten play
FSU's three losses are to Michigan (by 2 points), at Florida (by 1) and at Minnesota. They may yet be a good team.
I'm not writing off the season or anything.
I think this team has the potential to put it all together, but it's just a frustrating process, I guess.
I don't really know what my expectations are for the season anymore. There are some super encouraging runs every now and then, and if the team puts it together, I could see them making a Sweet 16 type run....
Can't close out any game in any sport this is bullshit.
Michigan is breaking in two freshmen in the backcourt. They lost the player of the year in Burke and a second guy in Hardaway to the first round of the NBA draft. Even Kentucky, with all their one and dones, can't expect freshmen to mesh immediately with the rest of the team.
If you think about it, both MSU with Izzo and Duke with Coach K schedule lots of difficult OOC games, which helps them finish strong in the conference, and also in the NCAA's.
I'd much rather have the losses now, and play stronger in the Big 10 and in the NCAA, than have a perfect record now and falter later.
How many times have spartan fans been frustrated with early season L's and then izzo has them ready at tourney time? U want these guys to play these games now and not blow out more Houston baptist's.
are all doing it just to screw with you. What did you do to make them all so mad at you?
I don't know what it was, but it was a very, very bad thing.
And this whole screwing with me thing, whoever is behind it, well, it's working like a charm.
Hockey doesn't count anymore?
If there is a bright side, non conferance bball games are pretty useless in the long run
When you don't win any against the best of them.
no theyre not. they prepare you for conference play and this game will pay dividends when we play teams like MSU and OSU
Yeah, I can remember a bunch of seasons where Sparty was like 7-4 at Christmas because they played a ridiculous schedule and then won like 13+ Big Ten games. Team is improving by seeing all these teams.
Fuck that fucking bullshit touch foul. There are my snowflakes.
We're fine. Playing two bigs is basically playing into Arizona's style and clogging our offense. I'd rather risk it the way Beilein did. If we don't get a bullshit foul called on us, we're shooting free throws to beat #1.
I am with you here. Often I see people on this board talk about "one call shouldn't beat you, play better" or some such comments.
In this case, I feel that it is pretty obvious that one incredibly questionable foul call changed the outcome of this game. Can't blame the players, they played well enough to beat #1.
The foul call was obviously bad, but so was the OOB play on the previous possession that clearly went off McGary. I'm not really in the business of blaming the refs most of the time, when it's so easy to look over the game and pick out bad calls for both sides.
I certainly see where you are coming from. To me, the difference here is that the ball went out of bounds. Someone had to make a call, and maybe no ref had a good angle. I can get that kind of call, because there was no option to swallow the whistle if you arent positive that you saw something.
But to blow your whistle and stop play when you dont have to, to me, makes it a bit less excusable.
when the shot clock is running down and there is less than 1 minute to play. That call and the 2 free throws changed the entire strategy at the end of the game. Yeah - they missed the one off McGary, but NS was called for a charge that was an obviously block too.
In close games the fers need to swallow their whistles ...
The foul on robinson in 89 that won us the NC. The refs giveeth and the refs taketh away.
Calls like that are why I can't be a diehard basketball fan. Too much of the outcome is in the hands of the officials.
And football is going in that direction w/ pass interference and roughing the passer, etc.
I hate the counter argument that "UM shouldn't have put themselves in that position and then they couldn't have been screwed by the refs." Games against good teams are going to be close! That was the best posible position that Michigan could manage agaisnt the nations #1 team, and then a ref hands Arizona 2 free shots to take the lead ... so lame.
Greg Anthony getting a chance for a personal ass kiss for all the AZ players.
Yeah seriously, eff him. He wouldn't shut up about them. Did he say anything positive about Michigan, I can't even recall, but I can recall about 10 times him slob-knobbin' over Arizona,
were u listening to the game. he talked all game about how great it was for Michigan to have Caris, Nil and GR3 who all can attack off the dribble and shots at he rim.
I admit I don't recall that. I believe it, though. I must have "caught him" when he was doing the Arizona loving which seemed like a lot more to me. Is there much else, though? Everytime I expected him to make a point about Michigan's offense it seemed he'd actually go in to something about Arizona's defense; similar things happened a couple times. It doesn't matter, I've the ability to mute it, but the end interviews he did just seemed to amplify my perception on his 'Zona "lovin'"
he gave a lot of pub to Michigan but since the momentum swung late it appears like he was only giving Zona pub.
And for the __th time Beilein chokes again
Yeah, his team sure wasn't clutch last spring (or against FSU this year for that matter).
Never said he wasn't a good coach. Trey Burke is responsible for most of the success last season though. Beilein's teams have never done well against big time opponents minus the Trey Burke years.
Hmmm, I was unaware that Burke played on those West Virginia teams that went to the Elite Eight and Sweet 16.
And the Darius Morris years, and the Manny Harris years. Plus the Pitznoggle years at WVU. Dude, no.
What is this logic? When he wins, it's thanks to his players, but when he loses, it's because he choked?
I think the one word we are looking for here is....Execute. It holds the answers to everything in the universe. Trust me on this.
If you're looking for logic, you might be looking in the wrong place right now.
You can't remember how many times Beilein has made great adjustments to win games. Dude dismantled some really great teams in the tournament last year and even this year unleashed the 1-3-1 to mount the comeback versus a good FSU team
If you're going to complain about John F'ing Beilein, then literally nothing will make you happy
I feel like going all Zack Novak leadership aneursym on you right now. But I'll refrain.
I'd be more than happy to have Amaker back...oh...right. The guy took us to the National Championship game, clearly some people here just can't be pleased.
Brian ellerbee! Maybe even bill frieder. :)
Brian ellerbee! Maybe even bill frieder. :)
Yep, time to fire John Beilein. What a loser... guy obviously can't coach in the clutch. Brandon should hire Larry Brown, I read on the internet that Michigan is his dream job.
Here are some select stats for the board's education and perusal:
|Off. Rebound %||48.57%||23.08%|
|Def. Rebound %||76.92%||51.43%|
I wasn't able to catch the game....who had the tough game in the rebounding department?
We did get annihilated on the boards today.
AZ: 17 offensive reb
UM: 18 defensive reb
Stauskas led us with 5 defensive rebounds. Mitch uncharacteristicly struggled defensive rebounding (1 rebound).
It's really telling that we outshot them in most categories and still lost. I know rebounding is a big issue there but we had that problem last year and still did really well obviously.
IMO turnovers may have been the difference. I know 11 isn't many but last years team may have only had half that with Burke at PG. If Michigan only had 5 turnovers today they probably win. But we're a young team and will improve. Overall I was pretty impressed with out performance today.
Pulls down that rebound with 30 sec left and up 1 we win. That play just highlights one our our glaring weaknesses, box the F out.
I agree. But the lack of being able to win these games reminds me of the Red Wings inability to win in shoot outs.
One of those game you look at and say: "what are ya going to do?" We played the most complete game of the year, and the ball didn't bounce our way at the end. I think the team grew from this.
- Lack Of Rebounding
- Hello GRIII
- Still Needed Him Down The Stretch
- Caris LeVert Show
- Bielien is a heck of a coach
- Arizona has serious size
That nickel/dime foul call on McGrady pretty much sealed the game for Arizona. That leaves a more bitter taste in my mouth than blowing an 11-point lead because it's not like the team completely imploded at any one point of the game.
Did he walk on this year?
Meant McGary. Anger + forum post venting = name mishaps.
completely agree - that lame ass call decided the last 30 seconds. how does he make that call at that point in the game. swallow your damn whistle.
It's fair to say we "blew" an 11 point lead in the second half. Mcgary scored on the first second half possession, there was still just about an entire half to play. Not like KU last year when they had a 14 point lead I think with 6 plus to go.you could use "blew" then, not now. Since this was at home, the selection committee probably looks at this as almost a "wash", if this was at zona, would be a plus.
GR3 started out great in this one but kind of dissapeared in the 2nd half
Disappearing???? No way!!!
That blocking call under a minute to play was complete garbage. McGary was moving his feet and the other player was leaning on him. Once again officials screw shit up.
Are we even going to make the tournament this year?
This is why we play a tough OOC schedule. We have ONE bad loss (Charlotte) and will have lost to 3 top 15 teams, 2 on he road. Is Michigan headed for a 1 or 2 seed? No. But this is preparing us for B1G play
The B1G is down this year and although we have had our opportunities, we do not have one good win so far. We have blown every chance and added a horrible loss. The dance is not only about who you play but who you beat.
how you can say the B1G is down...
Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin are all Top 5
Michigan, Indiana, and Iowa make up a great seconed tier
Third tear, which will still see teams get in the NCAAs: Purdue, Illinois, and Minnesota.
and Nebraska and Penn State are OK and N'Western is bad. BUT compared to every other conference, Big Ten is by far the best
Brutal for a UM fan lately...since last years title game in BBall it just seems we cant get a break and the close ones are not going our way....ughh
"Last year's national title game." That says it right there. It's not like we haven't seen any success for the last thirty years. Also, what about the breaks in the win against NW? This is sports, this is what you signed up for.
I don't know what people expect around here, but a national title game eight months ago after one of the best seasons we've had in a very long time, and we're now whining about losing to the number 1 team in the country by 2 points?
Tough loss, could have won it, but good heavens people. The team I saw today looked much better than in previous games. Lots of potential, but I think Walton and Irvin are going to need to grow up a bit more before they're real contenders.
Agree about Walton and Irvin. I'm psyched to see Beilein develop them over the next few years. Of course, I'd love it if they were awesome right now, but I'm thinking of how good they'll be next year and beyond.
You do not remember Akron, UConn and Northwestern this year in football do you?
The dong punches keep coming as a Michigan fan. Fuck this year.
My outlook for the team from the beginning has not changed. This is a sweet 16 team. I am confident that we will make a good run at the B1G championship (probably fall just short).
You have to remember this team is very young and with Beilein, this team will get better and will play best at the tourney.
I am satisfied with what I have seen so far.
to a great team. However, I would like to see Walton play less, give more minutes to Spike and have Caris play the point more when needed. Walton just needs to be brought along more slowly, his play really hurt us, when he was in the game I feel like his +/- was in the negative in a big way, I wonder if someone can confirm that.
We will get better, just sucks to lose.
Couldn't agree more! Walton will continue to improve but the drop off from Spike to Walton seems pretty substantial.
Love Spkie, but he is really overmatched defensively a good bit and it causes breakdowns. Some AZ dunks were the result of someone blowing by him.
Yea, that I gotta agree with that. He certainly could use some work defensively but man, seeing Walton "run" the offense is just, I don't even know the order, dysfunctional ? Again, I think Walton is improving and will contiune to improve but against the best, I just don't think he's ready yet.
Definitely this. We need more consistent point guard play down the stretch. And we need Caris and Nik to realize that hero-ball doesn't win the game unless you're Trey Burke (and even not so much then).
I always wondered if one of the reason's Burke was so great in the end of the KU game was because he tried to hero it so much over the course of the year. Worth the trade off if that's the case.
big D breakdowns by all of our backcourt players. this allowed countless drives and dishes for easy buckets, especially in the second half. all of the levert and irvin hype about how good their D is. well, i don't see it. like many past players have said, it takes a solid year to "get" beilein's D. well, walton, levert and irvin need to pick it up before this team becomes elite. the O was outstanding today. the D sucked.
Seems as though that all Michigan knows these days is utter heartbreak and sadness.
is a complete sucker
Michigan lost because they couldn't be bothered to have a live pep band at a freaking home game against the #1 team in the country, because money or something.
I know that's not really true at all, but that's the sort of "karma" Michigan got today.
The blocking call sucks but our rebounding was atrocious. Against a lesser opponent it probably doesn't hurt as bad, but against the #1 team, they'll take advantage of it.
It looks as if both of our teams are going through growing pains. This happens in sports, just gotta keep supporting them. Good times ahead. Go Blue!
Have been much more upsetting to me and would have ruined my weekend. At some point though, you have to realize this is just a game and akin to watching a bad TV show. This team has to make significant improvements but they're showing flashes. We just have to wait for them to put it together.
I think Spike should be starting, at least for the next few weeks. Walton seems to be still learning the offense and it grinds to a halt too often when he's in there.
fuck sports. fuck refs. fuck 2013
Well, it wasn't all bad - we did have a Final Four run in there.
It was a very good effort and felt like a win for a long time, and it's deflating not to pull it out at home. They are not quite ready for prime time...It's too bad Spike can't play defense like Walton or Walton can't play offense like Spike...McGary still doesn't look healthy...The call on Big Mitch was a good reminder that college basketball will make you feel like a chump for caring about it from time to time...Caris LeVert had some nice moments, as did a lot of guys. This day wasn't a total wash.
There is not another team in the country with a front court that talented outside of maybe Kentucky.
yeah, losing a non conference game in basketball isnt that bad. especially when its to the #1 team in the country. That being said, Michigan seemed to give this game away late. Arizona couldn't miss and that foul call on Mitch was tuuuuurible. I hate that they are 6-4, but the losses arent bad. Side bar....They need to change the jump ball/possetion arrow rule in college basketball. I still feel that this team will be much better in february and march than it is now. Where did GR3 go in the second half. Just like last year.
Yeah Arizona played well, but had too many easy baskets. Need to play better team defense and I'm not sure if McGary got as many minutes as he should have, despite Horford playing pretty well. He also needed more touches on offense. It sucks that we still don't have a 4 to fit our offense. We should be able to compete with everyone in Big Ten play, but it's going to be a tough season. Hopefully they keep improving. Walton is really struggling. Hopefully he can gain some confidence before the end of the year, but it's nice to see Spike playing well.
Watching this football, and now basketball team is rough. Feels like I keep getting dumped by a girlfriend or something. Damn things seemed so bright in Michigan sports just a little while ago. Good news is this game means nothing, and this team can get better and make a deep run in March.
At times, I found Beilein's "if player X commits foul then immediately sit player X" approach frustating and I wonder if it hampered ability for team to get in rhythm.
On better note, I think team played much better today and has an even higher ceiling. Future is bright.
I have no expectation of a win anymore. 2013 can't end soon enough.
Just a short time ago this would have been a blowout loss. It's like some of you are Michigan fans in a bubble, where the only context you have is last year's tournament.
College sports has escalated quickly into a "what have you done for me lately?" mentality for the past few years now.
in this history of college athletics have fans been upset over an underachieving team snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
The point is that it isn't particularly clear that they ARE underachieving. I've received a lot of push back for this, but I'm not convinced that this team/ program is in the top tier of the conference yet.
you're telling me that a team that returns 3 starters from a NCG run, with two of them being guys who returned despite being projected as lottary picks, didn't expect to do better than 6-4 at this point?
I don't think we were as good last year as the NCG run suggests. Certainly didn't look near as good in the regular season. Even so, the contributions of the 2 that didn't return can't be stressed enough.
You're telling me you expected a team losing the National Player of the Year plus another 1st round pick to the NBA, whose best player is hobbled by a back injury, whose SG is playing through an ankle injury, and whose PG is a true freshman replacing an incredibly rare combination of high usage and high efficiency, to beat the #1 team in the country?
We showed we could hang with the best team around, and we're only getting better from here.
Going 0.500 in Big Ten play likely does not get us to the Tournament. And the Big Ten is tough. Last year's world beaters went 12-6. We shall see.
I realize we have a number of real basketball fans and this does not apply to any of you. But....
In defense of the fans you reference, a lot of the people who are outraged have been M basketball fans for 1 to 4 years now and will admit as much. That's why you will see comments like "I have always been a football fan but really started to watch Michigan basketball recently . . ." Look at how the ticket demand has escalated and we sell out most games now.
Don't really remember much with the fab 5, but started following shortly after. 2002-2006 started going to games and you could just show up to any game and get a ticket. Remember going to the 2006 NIT game against UTEP and there were not more than 2,000 people there. Also remember back in 2006 when I was a freshman, my buddies and I got season tickets and went to almost every game. The stadium was never really sold out, except for MSU and maybe Ohio. When Duke came to town was another. There was plenty of space to roam around in the student bleachers for most of the games.
Point being, the only context a lot of Micihgan baskeball fans have is the last few years in a bubble. So the answer to your question is yes. Thus, no appreciation for where we are at right now as a program. Remember that watershed 2009 tournament selection show when we finally saw our name called after so many years of seing our name only on the bubble lists? Yea, a lot of people don't because they were not following yet.
Also thought we could've forced more turnovers. Offense looked pretty crisp, was getting decent looks, and Stauskas/Levert/GR3 were all making NBA drives.
Team will be there and it's all about matchups. One thing I noticed about last year's team is they struggled against teams who controlled both areas of the glass. Sometimes teams will only be good at defensive or offensive rebounding. Arizona is good at both. Just a thing to look at when viewing matchups.
the difference...they made ALL of their free throws (except the intentional one at the end).
Times after a loss I haven't even been mad. We played the best game we'd played all yeah (excluding HBU for obvious reasons). This will make us so much better headed into the conf season.... We have (some) experience now. Michigan WILL contend for a Big Ten Title. Many players proved themselves today.
I'm mad. All they had to do aye the end if the game was to get ONE defensive rebound to seal the game and they just got their asses kicked on the boards. They blew a large lead in the last six minutes. I am tired of watching Michigan play sloppy while getting out-thought,fought, and hustled. Whatever disease hit the football team this year has infected the basketball team as well. I am sure they will improve but it looks like another year of getting beat up inside, but no Trey and Tim to paper over the cracks.
making the tournaent..0 quality wins now looking have to win 11-12 in B10 ...Im sorry but I do NOT see this team winning 4 or 5 on the road...no way...
If that's what it takes we are on the ropes. Last year's team went 12-6.
Burned by a questionable call at the end. Honestly this was the best looking game from this team this year. Zona made some adjustments and came out strong in the second half, as you would expect them to. If that foul doesn't get called, or Caris grabs that board, Michigan wins.
This one was tough, but if you look at the losses so far there isn't one to be ashamed of. Iowa St. on the road (undefeated), Duke on the road (nobody is allowed to win there), a loss on the third day of a tournament that took place outside of this country, on a buzzer beater, and a home loss to the number one and undefeated Wildcats. As long as we keep improving we'll be fine.
Listen. If you let one call (which wasn't a horrendous call) ruin your ability to keep competing for a win then it starts there: mental composure. We just have to work on this. Our team leader was our PG last year, it is not the PG this year. That is huge in value for the team.
The problem is there wasn't enough time to keep competing. If it had happened with like 60 seconds left, fine, man up and finish the game. But that call essentially turned it into a free throw shooting contest with Arizona being spotted one point.
I do agree about the mental composure though, there were times when our guys tried to do a little too much. But the only way to get better at that is to live through it, and in the past year and a half nobody on this team really did because, as you alluded to, the ball would be in Burke's hands.
As soon as they mentioned Brian Ellerbe the game went downhill for Michigan.
Go back and check the clock. It's eerie.
replay of the national title game only with GR3 lighting up the first half and disappearing and the foul on McGary replacing Trey's block of Siva in the waning minutes of the game
My dong hurts.
Lots of snowflakes outside Crisler. Go get one
Caria Levert was impressive. Stauskas is tough. Spike is solid. McGary and Horford play with a lot of intensity, especially on defense. Those are my snowflakes.
The yellow snow: team doesn't have an elite defender (couldn't deny Johnson the ball at the end to keep him from going to the line); McGary is limited offensively (lived off Burke's penetration - sets wonderful screens but how many finished with him rolling and getting it at the hoop); Robinson disappears for too long. Also - we really need Walton to develop - needs to take better care of the ball and make smarter decisions on the drive.
Spike on the point, Mcgary more PT. Stick with that lineup, let them build chemistry.
Poor damn Michigan sports. I feel like Michigan just got one offensive rebound the entire second half. Pretty brutal rebounding altogether
This team is very good. They need to box out more but this schedule is hurting us more than anything else. We are one of the youngest teams in the country contrary to what a lot of u seem to think and these loses don't help confidence. We need to go on a tear or we may be a very good team playing in the NIT just because we don't have enough wins no matter who the loses are to. Some times the committee can't look past a questionable record.
Anthony kept saying how young Arizona was, and every time he did I yelled back at him that Michigan was all Freshman and Sophmores. Is that old Greg Anthony?
replay of the national title game only with GR3 lighting up the first half and disappearing and the foul on McGary replacing Trey's block of Siva in the waning minutes of the game
16 posts. Nice job
reasonably appropriate for this recent stretch in Michigan sports. Although instead of a record, it's a pneumatic paddle and the target is my spirit balls.
replay of the national title game only with GR3 lighting up the first half and disappearing and the foul on McGary replacing Trey's block of Siva in the waning minutes of the game
the lack of traveling calls on AZ and some iffy 3 second violations that should have been called as well.
Need to find ways to gut out wins in tough games.
Spike HAS to be the guy at PG. I know his D is lacking at times, but Walton can't facilitate or force teams to respect the outside shot like Spike. Walton will come along, but we gotta have Spike out there to start getting wins in these big games.
but spike doesn't play the point most of the time he's in the game. Caris does. Spike comes in a shooter. Walton has to play his way through these moments. He will learn more that way
we GET IT! lulz
We got it the first time.
Someone should take the muppets videos and reverse the music and invert the colors so they can be nega-Muppets for dong punch losses such as these.
Should have used it in the last 5 minutes. Arizona was scoring at the rim every possession and we could not stop it.
The truth is, Michigan is one of the youngest teams in the nation, playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation. They're not bad, just inexperienced. Things will get better, and my outlook is still the same as it was at the start of the year. Finish with a 4 seed, sweet sixteeen type team. That's really not a horrible thing to be in college basketball, it's what we were last year and look what happened in the tournament.
Is a 4 seed realistic with this many noncon losses? Serious question. I think the team is much better than their record at the moment but those losses will definitely work against us
They're good losses (minus Charlotte), I think it all gets pulled together by the time conference play rolls around and we show enough in the B1G to get a 4 seed. Admittedly this is mostly based on my eyeball test, but I have a decent enough feeling about it.
Even though it was a loss, I felt like progress was shown this game over where we were in Puerto Rico.
There is no chance for a 4-seed with 4 losses and no quality wins in the non-conference. Even with a good conference record the hole is deep and just making the tournament is not going to be easy.
Last year's team went undefeated in nonconference play... this one has four losses and counting... Meaning to match what we were last year we would have to do markedly better than 12-6 in Big Ten play. Not gonna happen. A 6-7 seed is attainable with absolutely otherwordly improvement. 8-11 if we play very well in conference and beat MSU/OSU. If they go par from the course they will be NIT bound
MSU had 4 OOC losses last year, but I'm clearly wrong and should just pencil us in for the NIT.
And I never said to pencil us in for the NIT. I said that NIT is par for the course. The 10-11 and 11-12 bball teams show that Beilein is capable of rallying his teams to an overachieving run in the Big Ten.
So you are expecting that this team, which is now 6-4 without a win over a ranked team, is going to be just as good as last year's team with Burke and Hardaway... okay
Don't you think that's putting words in my mouth a bit? All I said is I think we can end up with the same seed we had last year, and who knows what happens come tournament time. Compare last years OOC schedule to this year, they're not even close. If we played last years schedule, Michigan would be a 0 or 1 loss team and that four seed wouldn't seem so unrealistic.
The Wildcats are who we thought they were!!! If you wanna crown 'em, then crown their ass!!! But they are who we thought they were but we let 'em off the hook!!! Thought some of you's could use some humor...chin up buttercup, this teams gonna get better.
I think Walton should have played more down the stretch for this reason: Hes a better penetrator but but can hit the open shot. I rather Spike off the ball in these moments especially with Nik in the game because u have choose who u want to leave him or Nik. Also Nik couldve gotten a better shot than the one with 9.0 secs left. Like Johnson forced the ref to call a bs foul, Nik couldve done the same. Good game but need better execution to finish to get these wins
Funny thing, it was more like 16 seconds.
u might be right and that makes it an even worse shot by him.
That phantom foul call with 24 seconds left put us behind the 8 ball and we never recovered.
You're suppose to choke on the whistle at that stage of the game.
Why isn't 3 seconds ever called anymore. Especially when players are camped under there getting offensive rebounds.
It really cheapens the game.
in the late stages to prepare him for B1G. PG play is critical and Walton could hang with McConnell well enough to play the last 8 minutes.
Wouldn't change this into a win, but long ten payback.
I seriously mean this as an honest question because I feel completely the opposite. Why would you play Walton instead of Spike? I feel like the drop off from Spike to Walton is just huge right now. Walton actually kind of reminds me of Caris last year. He just seems a step behind, that the game is too fast for him. Just curious if you saw something I didn't.
Walton starts and has a high IQ - he needs experience in a variety of game settings to learn how to control the game.
PG is different in 1 respect - it's not how many minutes but which situations. He doesn't need a lot more minutes, just late game and key scoring plays.
Spike should play a lot and probably start, but we'll need Walton to be able to take the reins in tight games.
You do make some good points here. I'm honestly tempted to re-watch the game because it seemed to me, specifically in the 2nd half, everytime Walton was in the game, Arizona made a run and then Beilein was forced with putting Spike back in the game to settle things down. I think Walton will the PG of the future, just wish we didn't have to play him right now. Having him back up a guy like Trey or Darius for a year would be much better. Feel a lot like Derrick is getting thrown into the fire right now.
Walton was just lost on the court and Arizona went on a run every time he came in today. The offense was much better with Spike today. That may not be the case in the future but for today the dropoff was clear. Walton will be good but its going to take some time.
playing him in shorter spurts at different stages. Walton was very comfortable and we were leading for the first 6-8 minutes with Walton.
In the 2nd half, he was unsettled and then didn't play the last 10 min. Even if he plays only 1-2 min and struggles, Beilein could pull him and coach him on what he's experiencing.
His issue is "game management". I don't see us going too far if the only option is Spike for the rest of the season. We need a 2nd quality PG.
In a game like this, Walton is able to stay with their guards better and put pressure on them defensively because he will drive the ball unlike Spike who is looking to shoot from perimeter. Defense has to respect him but he doesn't put pressure on them.
Dammit,dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit!!
YOU BROKE IT
What'd I do?
We will be a tough team to beat down the stretch.
What have you seen that leads you to believe that?
We just lost to the #1 team in the country by 2. Had a lead for the majority of the game. All of our losses were close, with the exception of Duke I guess. And the cliche, we are young. Teams like this grow and learn.
A #1 team that played up to their billing also.
team who almost did something on their home floor.
Lots of otherwise not great teams out there who can make the same claim.
Losing down the stretch to #1 makes me think teams not #1 might find UM tough?
To win "down the stretch" you have to be able to finish games. This team has no identity on offense, no rebounding advantage, and no killer instinct. It has no low post game at all. When we absolutely need a bucket, we have no "go to" player or play. Those type of teams rarely are tough to beat down the stretch. We have players who could do that, but none that have showed me they will be that guy.
So, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. I Hope I'm wrong.
I know this team is young, but didn't they gain experience in last year's tourney run that no other team but Louisville can claim? We should be more battle tested than we have shown so far. Also, with the best players leaving for NBA after 1 or 2 years, almost all of the best teams in NCAA will be young. Arizona is just as young, and they were the ones on the road playing a 10am start time (for them).
Let's stop making the "this team is young" excuse. We need to win our share of these games. Let's see if we learned anything from yet another tough loss.
My snowflake? Navy's helmets are awesome.
Coach Hoke loves him some Michigan basketball. Guy gets into it like no other.
UM's interior D is better than most people think. Team after team struggle to finish in there. The first half AZ dumped it in and didn't finish. In the 2nd half dribble penetration (ode to Marcus) killed us. Draw, dump, and dunk isn't on the interior guy
Sucks to lose, but it's still early. So many teams pack in losses early, learn from them, get "right" going into the tournament and kill it. As long as we keep improving I'm not too mad at this point.
UM's nonconference schedule this season has been aces -- sure, they've got more Ls already than I'd like to see, but I think this will serve them well in B10 play.
Once again, much like their football team's nonconference schedule...OSU has played nobody. Don't you even say 'Marquette' or I'll smack you.
They'll pay. Oh yes...they'll pay.
than they did earlier. Real toughness on defense and rebounding continue to be a problems.
Arizona had experienced guard play, just like M last year and it showed, especially down the stretch.
Inspried ball really, just wasn;t enough. We have no one to score inside. The B1G is going to be brutal this year, I see 10-8 or 9-9 very possible. I hope we are not a bubble team going into the B1G Tourney. If we play like we did today all season we'll be fine though and have a ceiling of a 3 or 4 seed. Most likely a 6 or 7 seed. The floor is a bubble team.
The team will be fine through the B1G and in the tourney. They've played some of the top teams in the country in the non conference schedule while replacing a lottery pick with a freshman, and they've still showed that they can hang with the best teams in the country. Today, one bounce or call going for us instead of them and the team could have upset the #1 team in the country.
With a young team and major roster losses, you have to look at the utility of the non conference games: finding out what works with the new roster; players discovering and growing in to new roles; freshman adapting to the spotlight and suddenly playing ball on national television in insane hostile environments on the road; and most importantly coaches developing the players and tweaking the game plans to best suit the group that they have.
The team has already shown that they have what it takes to compete with the best, and Coach B and his staff have proven year in and year out that they are phenomenal evaluators and developers of talent. With continued maturation and improvement, this team could be deadly come March and I would not be surprised if we see them make another deep run.
but we play NW, ILL and PSU (and @OSU) only once in conference play. those are 3 of the worst teams in the BIG. it will be tough to get to 11+ wins in conference if we lose even one conf game at home. 11-7 is the goal, assuming we can beat both Stanford and Holy Cross.
Growing pains for a young team! Burke took over on both ends of the floor in crunch time and we need to find that guy. I do not believe McGary is healthy yet but still gives it everything he's got. Hat's off to Horford, excellent effort!
It's a young team, but you gotta deliver coming down towards the end of the game. However, this is college basketball. Some games are more important than others, but once you get in the tournament, all bets are off.
Will be fine this year. We just haven't quite found our footing. I think this team goes on a nice run the rest of the season to finish with 20+ wins.
Fuck this year in Michigan sports. I'm sick of watching our teams performing just well enough that I'm emotionally attached to every. last. fucking. loss.
I mentally understand that these close losses are better than getting blown out because they mean that the program is still within an arms-reach of the top. But emotionally speaking this is turning into pure agony. I think I'm done watching Michigan sports till the bowl game... the wins just feel hollow and empty and that losses keep demolishing my emotional well-being.
(not that I expect the bowl game to be any different)
I have never played a musical instrument or went to a band performance in my life and I care that the band wasn't there
I think many would disagree.
I'm ready to throw this year down the drain. Get our hopes up then crap on us all year going back to the bowl game in January to the ncaa BBall championship. I don't watch hockey but I think they blew it also. Spoil me next year guys, fresh start.
Anyone seen any mock draft boards recently? At this point, I think I'm more worried about losing Stauskas than GRIII and McGary. Don't get me wrong - I don't want to lose any of them, I'm just thinking their stock has to be lower while Nik's has to be much higher. Or maybe my eyes are deceiving me.
GR3 will be picked up for his name, if he wasn't an ex players son he wouldn't be paid attention to, he reminds me of Brent Petway with a 3 point shot.
you know what's funny about your comment is that GR3 gets scrutinized more because of who his father is.
did u see staukas against Duke? he will be playing those kind of guys in the league and he's not a great defender. I don't think any of them are ready but at his position, Stauskas is not the defender he needs to be to guard NBA shooting guards
The Duke game where he still played despite twisting his anke a week prior to that?
the one good thing is that i think these guys really like each other and want to make some noise. if we don't make a deep run this year, i could easily see everyone coming back for their junior year to do something special.
the wide open 3 caris missed near the end of the game was a big miss. Also, i thought beilein should have taken a timeout and played for the last shot after the bs foul call. Michigan could have really used this win to boost the resume. This team has alot of work to do in B1G play.
I agree, if u lose taking the last shot at home so be it.
Why. They ended up with, what, 2 more possessions after not scoring on the first one? JB probably thinks 3 chances to tie are better than 1
i agree with taking a TO to set up a play. we had two remaining during those final 30 sec. but i disagree with taking a last shot when down. you have to leave yourself time to get an offensive rebound or foul and another possession if you miss.
Can anyone who attended the game confirm if there were any anti-Brandon chants? It's a shame that the band wasn't in attendance. He doesn't have a clue!
Middle school basketball is a lot different than Michigan games
Was your band the UofM band?
Then yes. Pre-game there was a short video shown about the special olympics and Dave Brandon appeared in a few shots, and he was booed fairly noticeably, at least from where I was sitting on the edge of the student section.
and make the NCAA tournament. Then let it play out.
at home? I fucking swear the only significant calls we get in our favor are phantom pass interference calls against Notre Dame. Maybe that's why God hates us.
It really looked to me that the refs missed a ball out of bounds off McGary later in the 2nd half. I agree that the McGary foul was atrocious, and that the ref blew the whistle because the situtation just seemed like an automatic foul situation. But I don't think every call went against us. AZ just balled their way back into this game, completely dominated the boards, and shut down our transition game (transition game largely shut down by their 2nd half offensive efficiency).
John is never oblivious. You are
I would remind people complaining about 2013 that it was the year UM made it to the NCAA championship game for the first "official" time since 1989. Losing a couple of close games in the early part of the season doesn't strike me as the most horrible thing in history.
Is Spike starting to rock a comb over? It's looking like first to third on the top and second to home on the sides.
If defensive hand checks are to be called, so must the offensive version --as in what Johnson did to McGary on the weak foul call. Elsewise just coach Walton up to stick his elbow up and run into people into the cows come home and the other team fouls out.
It will be an uphill climb to make the tournament. Not impossible, but very tough.
Oh come on, you're quite the laydown Larry.
It's probably been mentioned, but the non-students sucked a fat one today. We lined up two hours early in the snow and packed the place an hour before tip-off. Everywhere else, there were plenty of empty seats, and Arizona fans everywhere. For as much shit as the students get on this website, this is only fair. If the students were as shitty as everyone else today, we'd have 4 threads demanding they lose seats.
As it is, I wish 1/2 of the stadium could have been student seating. The demand was there. But alas: merely a bunch of empties who couldn't be bothered to come on a Saturday afternoon against the #1 team in the country.
I agree. Partially. While there were a lot of Arizona fans, mainly nonstudents fault, they kept doing their "U of A" chant, that the Maize Rage failed to cover up with a Michigan cheer and at times let it fill the arena. (Granted this all may have been more noticable due to no band, which at times I think really hurt the atmosphere)
Those only lasted a few seconds before they got covered up ok, but yeah, no band hurt. It's telling how many UA fans there were, though, and all over the stadium. It just sucks that there were hundreds of students who tried and failed to get tickets for this when there were open seats and UA fans aplenty. And students have finals; everyone else has no excuse. It was honestly pretty infuriating.
Yeah, the students stepped it up the fuck up. A lot of them were in line since 7 AM, I was in line by 9 and had to endure a brutal couple hours standing in the snow/cold before getting in (and even then there were enough students ahead of me to where I ended up behind the basket, which isn't terrible but not ideal). And this is on finals weekend.
Just makes the failure of the rest of the ticket-buying public all the more depressing and pathetic. Instead of eliminating the band to make room for more students, how about eliminating those extra seats no one was in anyways and put the band there? Come on Brandon.
You should write Brandon, seriously. Anyone who was there and can comment
Honestly I would if I had any faith that that email would actually make a difference in Brandon's mind. It is clear by now that he simply does not give two shits about the student experience/home advantage and is all about the $$$. It is what it is; he is a smart businessman who knows how to make this program money but he just doesn't give a rat's ass about the students he serves. I guess it's too much to ask that we have an AD who cares about both and can strike a suitable compromise between the two seemingly-conflicting things.
As you mentioned, the lack of the band was huge in letting that happen. Regardless, the issue with the student section not covering up the sound is that the UofA chants were coming from literally across the entire arena, whereas the core of the student section on the sideline that makes the big noise is concentrated in that one area, making it very difficult to drown out when the opposing chant is reverberating across the arena.
And on that note, so disappointed in the non-student section people. Not only did they allow a sizable portion of tickets to end up in Arizona fans' hands, but decent chunks of the upper bowl were pretty freaking empty. I was waiting and hoping to chalk it up to the snow/early start time, but those seats never filled up later on. Very disappointing, and especially coming off the season we had last year is honestly pretty pathetic.
You and me both, peanut. What does UM basketball have to do? We went to the championship last year and it's a saturday game against #1. Either the non-students didn't show because we lost some earlier games (pathetic), or this program is never going to generate the loyalty they deserve. Either way, it's really annoying.
I wasn't there today (didn't have tix) but I have said this for awhile - the student section is too small. If 5,000 students want tickets, they should get them. This isn't football. We need the students to be loud at big games (and they were today) and we need students for those mid-week January games that start at 6 when it's tough for the working folks from metro Detroit to make it out.
I don't think 5,000 student tickets would be wise, and usually I'm all for more student stuff. This is the only game students would have been turned away at so far (and they weren't, because they had the bands seats). I thinks there would be a lot of empty if more student tickets were added, because a small percentage go to the smaller games. However, Crisler should have a ring of students like the Breslin.
Best part of the game was, by far, Spike doing his best Johnny Football impersonation with the show me the money sign after his first three in the first half. He's such a fun player to watch.
Arizona is damn good. Shame that Michigan lost but they gave em a good run.
It's still early though. Still got plenty of time to right the ship.
some of you really need to chill out.
this wasnt a moral victory. thats not where this team is. it was a step in the right direction.
beyond robinson, i think we will be stuck in the mud until walton gets better control of the offense. right now, we rely on one or two guys going off, but rarely does it feel like a team playing together (like the title run last year). but the potential is there, big time. and i love having a coach i 100% trust to get us there. i dont mean to blame walton, either. i dont see reason for blame at all after this game. taking the #1 team to the wire really isnt so bad.
im guessing the people sour about this loss werent around in the dark ages. this season has been a ton of fun to watch, and its going to get even better. i think this team is really close to getting there.
at least we didn't blow an 18-point lead in the last 6:30 and lose to an ivy league team in overtime. #wearepennstate #Bigtennnnnn
Michigan football and basketball are comprised of a lot of "what ifs" and "almosts". Another day, another close loss.
Mgoblog posters overreacting, color me shocked
We're scrappy, but not that good. It will be a struggle to make it to the NCAA tourney.
But this is dumb
Should still be top 5 in big ten for sure and that will get them in